You know how you know when you’re wrong? You have to come up with an excuse for everything.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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You know how you know when you’re wrong? You have to come up with an excuse for everything.
You're not actually attempting to defend that nonsense are you?
I expect he'll bring in more backroom staff in the summer, probably Meulensteen.
We need someone working directly with the attackers giving them guidance on attacking phases of play.
We need someone working directly with the attackers giving them guidance on attacking phases of play.
What is wrong with those screaming for OGS after what he has done for us. Mourinho was a disaster and Van Gaal and Moyes did not work either. Perhaps it´s a simple way to put things into perspective but if you look at the squad we have not many of those 28 listed there on the Man Utd first team webpage would be much sought after by the strongest teams in Europe. Rashford,Pogba(perhaps),Shaw,De Gea in my estimate. We have simply bought very badly over a long period of time and it´s reflected in the squad. Went to the Barca game and McTominay impressed me there as he has done against PSG and Liverpool and he´s a homegrown young player. Fred to my surprise frankly was quite good in that game and I hope that continues.
OGS came in and the effect he´s had speaks volume for him as a man and the dire effect that effing clown Mourinho was having on everything. Mourinho bought most of the players not working out for us and when that did not work he screamed out for more and are you surprized they did not trust him. It was Mourinho that put Martial out of the team for a certain Sanchez that´s the biggest waste of money in United history I reckon.
I will reserve judgement on OGS until next season because I think we will see some smart moves in the transfer market and I admire him for throwing on Greenwood today instead of seeing Fellaini coming on as plan B like Mourinho did. At least OGS is brave and there is a future in sending Greenwood on and showing him that he has the belive of OGS behind him. Mourinho did not have any belief in the younger players and it´s great to see that changing again because that has always been a huge part of Man Utd in my estimate.
Where would we have been if Mourinho would have stayed 7-9 place I reckon. How far are we from Spurs and the manager some seem to think was the right choice for us? 3 points and would many have belived that when OGS took over?
We have won 16 games, drawn 2 games and lost 5 games since he came in and if you look at the form of teams from gameweek 17 up until today we would be in 3 place with 38 points and Liverpool would have 40 and City 39 with Spurs at 31 points and Arsenal at 29 points.
So it´s clear OGS has done a remarkabel job with a very limited squad that most of us know needs a lot of improvement. Even though the past weeks have proved more difficult I think that´s understandable and hopefully the summer transfer window will go well. OGS has the full support of anyone I know and how rare is it to have fans singing the name of the manager like his is done. Perhaps that´s not relevant but do not underestimate the effect of having a manager that is United through and through. I reckon you will see this summer that OGS is ruthless when facing the decisions needed to be made in order for us to progress forward.
OGS came in and the effect he´s had speaks volume for him as a man and the dire effect that effing clown Mourinho was having on everything. Mourinho bought most of the players not working out for us and when that did not work he screamed out for more and are you surprized they did not trust him. It was Mourinho that put Martial out of the team for a certain Sanchez that´s the biggest waste of money in United history I reckon.
I will reserve judgement on OGS until next season because I think we will see some smart moves in the transfer market and I admire him for throwing on Greenwood today instead of seeing Fellaini coming on as plan B like Mourinho did. At least OGS is brave and there is a future in sending Greenwood on and showing him that he has the belive of OGS behind him. Mourinho did not have any belief in the younger players and it´s great to see that changing again because that has always been a huge part of Man Utd in my estimate.
Where would we have been if Mourinho would have stayed 7-9 place I reckon. How far are we from Spurs and the manager some seem to think was the right choice for us? 3 points and would many have belived that when OGS took over?
We have won 16 games, drawn 2 games and lost 5 games since he came in and if you look at the form of teams from gameweek 17 up until today we would be in 3 place with 38 points and Liverpool would have 40 and City 39 with Spurs at 31 points and Arsenal at 29 points.
So it´s clear OGS has done a remarkabel job with a very limited squad that most of us know needs a lot of improvement. Even though the past weeks have proved more difficult I think that´s understandable and hopefully the summer transfer window will go well. OGS has the full support of anyone I know and how rare is it to have fans singing the name of the manager like his is done. Perhaps that´s not relevant but do not underestimate the effect of having a manager that is United through and through. I reckon you will see this summer that OGS is ruthless when facing the decisions needed to be made in order for us to progress forward.
Exactly.
I expected this to happen though, because he came with no high profile success before he would be under enormous amount of scrutiny for most of the fans here.
It would have been same with Zidane though. First defeat and ‘he can’t do this without a world class team’.
Pochettino is probably the only manager who could be crap for two years here and most of Caf would still adore him.
There is a group of fans here that I feel are just waiting for us to play badly so they can come with their ‘I told you soes’.
Social media is filled with hipsters and him and klopp have the biggest hipsters followers
I really hope he can get the team back on track. Seeing his team play like this somewhat hurts more than seeing us playing shitty football under Mou where I somewhat expected it. But those early weeks gave me a taste for good football back and now having served up the same shit we have been suffering through for the last 6 years or so is fecking hard to take. Non the less I have confidence he can reshape the team to play better football again. I just hope he gets the full backing of the board.
That's your opinion. With LVG, we could all see the identity of what he wanted us to play like, right at the start. That's what i'm getting at, when people say that Ole has only been here 3 months, how can he be expected to have changed our style?
Oh i completely agree, their attacking play this season is like night & day compared to last season too. But you know, that they have it in them to flick the switch eventually and get back to playing well. We can't say the same about us, it's one game here and there with us. That's my criticism.
Maybe, the results have been good but I've still not been impressed with our general play tbh. Whether that changes with a new pre-season etc, well i hope it does.
I fundamentally don't agree with this way of thinking. For me, it's about knowing that you are going in the right direction. If we consistently play good but keep getting unlucky with results, i'm more happy with that knowing that eventually, our results will change.
Maybe it's trust. I never had a problem with it under SAF, after Christmas we would grind out results sure, but there was standards set that we were in line with, the majority of the time. We didn't take any prisoners.
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Yours? Not at all. Ive seen anyone jump so wildly from excuse to excuse to defend piss poor players. Your calling McT a defensive mid that shouldnt be relacing the attacking pogba actually made me laugh out loud. Pogba has been poor for a well over a month. McT has been showing int he same amount of time that he can not only pick out a good cutting pass, but also charge forward. Man of the match against barca, but not good enough to replace the whimpering performance of pobga for 15 minutes? O.K.
I have been kind enough to respond to your posts but you revert to name-calling. How is that productive to any discussion?
Come on mate, no Manchester United fan wants Ole to fail. We all just want what’s best for the club.
Woodward and the board look like they’ve jumped the gun in regard to appointing Ole permanently. It’s not Solskjaer’s fault that he is seemingly out of his depth.
I haven't called you any names in those posts. Very disingenuous to suggest so.
Yours? Not at all. Ive seen anyone jump so wildly from excuse to excuse to defend piss poor players. Your calling McT a defensive mid that shouldnt be relacing the attacking pogba actually made me laugh out loud. Pogba has been poor for a well over a month. McT has been showing int he same amount of time that he can not only pick out a good cutting pass, but also charge forward. Man of the match against barca, but not good enough to replace the whimpering performance of pobga for 15 minutes? O.K.
Pogba was our best player today. Pretty much the only one to display any attacking quality at all. His pass was responsible for our second goal. There's nothing in your post that even approaches being factually correct.
Someone being told they must be on drugs is not offensive?
I know the squad is far from perfect. However my biggest issue is the direction we are going, or more like lack of it. I think this team can play much better, I really liked how we played in the first few matches when Ole took over. Quick passing, lots of 1-2s and we controlled the games very well. I know the opposition wasn't the best but our style of play was different, much more like what I should expect from us. Then we turned to negative, defensive counter attacking football, very similar to how we played with Jose. We got a few smash and grab wins but the general performance levels dropped a lot and we look extremely disjointed again which makes me believe that it was just a new manager bounce. Hope I am wrong but again I think Ole is massively out of his depth and we need much more than smiles to win trophies.
Someone being told they must be on drugs is not offensive?
That's not name calling.
his pass was responsible for feck all. the piss poor challenge is what got us a pen, twice. being the best pile of shit, is still a pile of shit. the ref gifted us a soft pen, the linesman gifted us an offside. We were shit, and pogba being slighty better than has been over the past month or more is no reason that the man of the match against barca shouldnt be getting 15 minutes at his expense.
Like Scholes said we aren’t winning the league next season, that’s the reality whoever we buy in the summer. The performance we saw today has been common for years and isn’t going to be cured straight away.
My big concern is the coaching at Liverpool. City and Spurs is top class and not convinced we have a manager to match that. What will happen with transfers in the summer is also a lottery. No one could be worse than Mourinho but bridging that gap requires time, money and huge improvement in so many areas, there is no quick fix.
My big concern is the coaching at Liverpool. City and Spurs is top class and not convinced we have a manager to match that. What will happen with transfers in the summer is also a lottery. No one could be worse than Mourinho but bridging that gap requires time, money and huge improvement in so many areas, there is no quick fix.
no, but it is attacking the person, not the post. theres a reminder right above the post window.
I don’t really get the feeling that no Man Utd wants him to fail on here.
It doesn’t seem like he’s out of his depth at all. He’s done very well here.
You still haven’t responded to what is wrong with his Molde record by the way.
It's literally attacking the post.
His pass was responsible for putting Martial through 1v1 with the goalkeeper. These are things that have actually happened, there's video evidence to prove it.
I don't agree with this. Its a cop-out to me. If you have the right manager and have clear ideas, of course you can achieve success the following season.
Look back at 2005 when we crashed out to Benfica in the CL. We were a travesty that season with people calling for SAF to step down. We had a dull ageing team, lacking ideas. We were playing Silvestre, Smith & Richardson etc. He then replaced Keane & RVN with Carrick & Ronaldo. Bought in Vidic & Evra.
The rest was history, we were completely transformed the next season so it's about being ruthless and having the right people in place.
I think the most crucial aspect of his appointment is that he knows what it takes to be a United player at the level we aspire to be at.
This is a man who played for Alex Ferguson for eleven years and shared a dressing room with Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Peter Schmeichel, Jaap Stam, Rio Ferdinand et al.
Our previous managers wanted to put together a United team in their image. They were outsiders with their own views and blueprints. Solskjaer's blueprint is based on Ferguson's United. His number two was Ferguson's number 2. There is a link to the past and while in some respects "the United way" is an overblown line trotted out, the "Ferguson way" is a reality. The former is a romantacised vague expression, the latter refers to how one man stayed at the top for two decades.
What were Ferguson's biggest qualities? He was ruthless, he was self-driven, he was adaptable and he relished new challenges.
Solskjaer's got a the ultimate challenge of getting us our first-SAF title. Having been a member of United sides that dominated for years he will have a clear idea what technically and mentally this squad needs (and what it doesn't need), hence "survival of the fittest".
Furthermore he knows what the fans demand having played here whereas Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho stuck their head in the sands.
He is not a given to succeed but I believe a direct lineage to the past is what will propel United back to success in the future because in many ways we stepped away from what actually made us dominant in the pursuit of instant glory after a tough couple of years. If Solskjaer fails I do not know where we go from there.
This is a man who played for Alex Ferguson for eleven years and shared a dressing room with Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Peter Schmeichel, Jaap Stam, Rio Ferdinand et al.
Our previous managers wanted to put together a United team in their image. They were outsiders with their own views and blueprints. Solskjaer's blueprint is based on Ferguson's United. His number two was Ferguson's number 2. There is a link to the past and while in some respects "the United way" is an overblown line trotted out, the "Ferguson way" is a reality. The former is a romantacised vague expression, the latter refers to how one man stayed at the top for two decades.
What were Ferguson's biggest qualities? He was ruthless, he was self-driven, he was adaptable and he relished new challenges.
Solskjaer's got a the ultimate challenge of getting us our first-SAF title. Having been a member of United sides that dominated for years he will have a clear idea what technically and mentally this squad needs (and what it doesn't need), hence "survival of the fittest".
Furthermore he knows what the fans demand having played here whereas Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho stuck their head in the sands.
He is not a given to succeed but I believe a direct lineage to the past is what will propel United back to success in the future because in many ways we stepped away from what actually made us dominant in the pursuit of instant glory after a tough couple of years. If Solskjaer fails I do not know where we go from there.
What I cannot fathom is why Pogba rarely makes those late runs into the box anymore? It hasn't happened since he got man marked by Marquinhos! I'm guessing that's Ole's decision rather than Pogba wanting out by playing poorly in a deeper position
It's just unnecessary. I have no problem with a difference of opinion, it's a discussion forum after all. Maybe you didn't mean it in that way but it came across unpleasantly.
cool. Show me the video were martial scored.
There was a pretty massive improvement in our form (off the back of O'Shea and Giggs in central midfield oddly enough) in the latter half of the 05-06 season. We won 9 games in a row between February and April before a couple of draws and a hammering by Chelsea won them the title (the game where Rooney broke his metatarsal). A better example is probably Chelsea in Conte's first season, but that relied on some ridiculous form from Hazard and Diego Costa and everyone else being particularly bad.
If City get 86 points like Spurs did in 16-17 then it's very possible we could win the title next year with the right signings and a bit of luck. Somehow I don't think both them and Liverpool will have such a poor performance. In which case you have to build a side that can push for 95+ points. That isn't easy and unless you're Pep with City's assets doing it in one season would be a pretty remarkable feat.
The content of the post, not the person who made the post. You can be as purposefully obtuse as you like, but I know you know what the rule means.
He didn't get a chance to because he was hacked down 1v1 with the keeper because of a brilliant through ball by Pogba.
I tell you what, I'm going to let you go watch the match yourself and in 24 hours when you have we can talk about it.
"This opinion only makes sense if you've been partaking in mind bending hallucinogens" is a addressing the content of the post. Not the person who made it.
Then he didnt make a pass that led to a goal then did he. His pass didnt lead to a goal. It led to a chance for a goal.
Good to know that Ole demands more. Interesting point he made that we played better against wolves and arsenal and lost.
I did watch the game, thats how I know that martial didnt score a goal. Nor did ANYONE make a pass that led to a goal in the united side. We made passes that led to goal scoring opportunities, nothing more.
I've just seen it and it relaxes me a lot that he recognizes the flaws of the team today and he isn't happy. With some other managers we would be hearing how fine we did because we won and everything is perfect.
The man is saying that we didn't have enough control and it was like a basketball game at times, we were far too open and didn't press well at all. That's exactly what I was criticizing in the last page and I thought it was the intention to play an open risky game, dividing the team in two and giving freedom to attackers. But it seems it wasn't the plan. A bit concerning anyway that he can't make the team play without those problems, but at least we know he isn't pleased with that crazy open style and will find solutions to make us more compact. That's the first step.
He says something interesting too:
"We didn't manage to press them and we were wide open in midfield. Fred and Paul played well but they didn't have the protection and we didn't get to the pressing."
"We need to look at that at home, that we manage to be braver in the pressing, step up from the back and expend more energy higher up."
He doesn't look happy with the way the players are operating on the field and I think he's identifying certain issues and insecurities. This summer will be crucial to remove the negative elements in the squad and sign people with the right mentality.
At this point it feels like the man is trying to grab results in one way or another, but surely after pre-season we'll start to see more clear patterns of play. So it's a matter of time that he moulds the team introducing more capable personnel, and instilling the right mentality and tactics. Until he gets all this together we need to be patient I guess.
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I'm going to accept that we're not going to see eye to eye on this and let other people judge our arguments on their merits. But I fully stand by the statement that Pogba's pass led to our goal.
You could argue that scrappy wins are part of any top team's campaign, but you cannot dispute that there are some serious underlying issues after another addition to our recent string of poor performances.
Like someone said earlier in the thread - our talented players lack the effort, our hardworkers aren't talented enough, and then there are those who lack both. Our squad has been getting worse season by season over the last decade, and there has been a systemic failure at the highest level which prevented us from stopping the rot. It is very apparent that we are run more like a marketing business at this stage rather than a football club. It shows in the players, in shows in our decisions, it shows in our squad management and it shows on the pitch.
I had a brief glimmer of hope that we'd make top four this season, enabling us to compete at the top level again. Ole seemed to have the squad reinvigorated and united for a push. But over the last month - with the fatigue kicking in, the injuries stacking up, contracts approaching expiry/renewal, and our momentum dropping off - we have clearly lost focus and points. It is quite unlikely, once more, that we're going to make the cut.
I really hope the club is prioritizing the acquisition of footballing people to decide and implement a long term vision by working with the manager and shaping the squad accordingly. Director of Football, Technical Director, Talent Acquisition Head - whatever fancy title they come up with. Ole on his own is going to get sacked by next December if he has to keep most of this squad, or have just Woody and his invisible cast of motley fools doing the transfers again.
We need to undo more than six years of poor vision and management, and to achieve that we need to stop corroding our squad even more than it already has been. The last thing we want is another summer of mega spending on all the wrong transfer targets. I don't expect a new Ole/DoF combo to start giving us Ronaldos and Vidics again - I just want them to stop spamming the squad with signings that hurt our balance.
Ole will not succeed unless changes are made at a higher level - it's as simple as that.
Like someone said earlier in the thread - our talented players lack the effort, our hardworkers aren't talented enough, and then there are those who lack both. Our squad has been getting worse season by season over the last decade, and there has been a systemic failure at the highest level which prevented us from stopping the rot. It is very apparent that we are run more like a marketing business at this stage rather than a football club. It shows in the players, in shows in our decisions, it shows in our squad management and it shows on the pitch.
I had a brief glimmer of hope that we'd make top four this season, enabling us to compete at the top level again. Ole seemed to have the squad reinvigorated and united for a push. But over the last month - with the fatigue kicking in, the injuries stacking up, contracts approaching expiry/renewal, and our momentum dropping off - we have clearly lost focus and points. It is quite unlikely, once more, that we're going to make the cut.
I really hope the club is prioritizing the acquisition of footballing people to decide and implement a long term vision by working with the manager and shaping the squad accordingly. Director of Football, Technical Director, Talent Acquisition Head - whatever fancy title they come up with. Ole on his own is going to get sacked by next December if he has to keep most of this squad, or have just Woody and his invisible cast of motley fools doing the transfers again.
We need to undo more than six years of poor vision and management, and to achieve that we need to stop corroding our squad even more than it already has been. The last thing we want is another summer of mega spending on all the wrong transfer targets. I don't expect a new Ole/DoF combo to start giving us Ronaldos and Vidics again - I just want them to stop spamming the squad with signings that hurt our balance.
Ole will not succeed unless changes are made at a higher level - it's as simple as that.
This is where I disagree. We should not be looking to mimic the Fergie years. There's no SAF 2.0. And I think a lot of our fans want OGS to be SAF 2.0.
" out of his depth " being flung around now hahahahahaha
Yes, it is funny. Because it is true
16 games, 12 wins, 2 draws and 2 defeats (to Arsenal and Wolves). 2.4 points per game, 90 points per season form. A few bad performances where we scrape out a win (after a few good ones where we didn't) and now people are feeling qualified to call him out of his depth.
I cannot fathom the arrogance of anyone who thinks they have the required information to make that claim.
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