Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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I think you could even say 'mid-flight success' to be honest...
A Rodgers or a Howe, while not at all being my first choices, would at least serve as sensible gambles - they've proven they can hang in the PL without embarrassing themselves.
And they'd also at least offer a somewhat more realistic notion of managers here to set the squad up to play decent footy before a big name manager was available.
The appointments, and the order of them (Mourinho replacing LvG, OGS replacing Mourinho), is genuinely baffling.
That doesn't mean he was or wasn't happy with the market. My problem is assuming he was hard done by Woodward and he was frustrated by the market, while in reality there's not a single evidence on this so far, it's just people wanting to believe that. Everything points to the contrary. He never said directly he wanted 5-6 players, he always said he wanted 1 or 2 more before Maguire deal:
And here's what he said about Rashford and Martial :
That's regardless of Stones tweets.
Imo both him and Woodward are responsible for this failure of the market and they should both be sacked asap.
I got slated on here last season for saying I didn’t think we should appoint Ole as manager but as DoF. Still think it’s the way to go at the end of the season but doubt he would want to move into that role now, I think last season if we had of gone for Poch and put Ole in as DoF we would be in a much healthier state right now.
Just going by his post match presser. Ole mentioned how good the attitude and desire is and how great a bunch the boys are.
The usual.
The issue being we don't even play Mourinho football well. We are conceding very easy, stupid goals, due to lapses in concentration etc.
Sorry to start my first post negatively but I guess I have to start somewhere.
I really do feel sorry for Ole. He's had his head in a noose ever since he arrived and between not signing obvious replacements, not having enough top level football experience and inheriting not a very good squad that noose is tightening.
It's not a knee jerk reaction to todays result but more so the dire performances of the last 4 months or so of football action, but I think it's becoming clearer that Ole isn't the man to take us forward.
We talk of Oles vision but what exactly is it? Since he's came in we've played a high pressing game, playing it out from the back, possession game, counter attack and god knows what else. The excuse for the last 3 months last season was the players weren't fit enough. I really don't see any marked difference in our play this season. Injuries will be used as an excuse. Does Pogba being out really debilitate us? I don't think it does. Does Martial being out really debilitate us? Depends on the Martial that shows up but generally no. Does Rashford being out really debilitate us? Not the way he's been playing lately. Don't get me wrong. They are extremely good players but this is where my beef with Ole comes in.
A good manager coming in can steady a sinking ship and to give Ole his dues he did that, albeit that ship sure did have big holes in her at the end of the season and was teetering again but a great manager coming in can change the whole dynamic.
I remember in 2015 the state Liverpool were in. They probably had worse players than we have now and were playing worse footbal (OK maybe an exaggeration) we beat them 3 or 4 and played them off the park and remember in 2015 we were hardly world eaters but we looked it against them. About a month later Klopp came in and with the same players transformed them completely in a short space of time. If Klopp had players like Pogba, Martial and Rashford then I would say they would be a massive miss for the team but Ole never has or never will have the know how to change players mentalities to make them world beaters. If he failed at Cardiff what made us think he would succeed for us.?The coaching staff is a the same, nice blokes but no idea on top league tactics. From the manager on down they need to inspire players to take them to the next level. Not going to happen with what we got.
The question is who do we get to replace him? People talk about Eddie Howe but I really am in 2 minds about him. Has done brilliantly to get where he is but is it a step too far for him? I don't think Zidane will last too much longer at Madrid. I personally wouldn't like to see him here but if he could the the best out of Pogba and Martial then it would be an obvious plus and being a football legend will certainly bring respect in the dressing room. Portos manager Sergio Conceicao looks like he could be going places but he could be the next Mourinho or the next villas_boas. Probably a bit too volatile for Ed though.
I really do feel sorry for Ole. He's had his head in a noose ever since he arrived and between not signing obvious replacements, not having enough top level football experience and inheriting not a very good squad that noose is tightening.
It's not a knee jerk reaction to todays result but more so the dire performances of the last 4 months or so of football action, but I think it's becoming clearer that Ole isn't the man to take us forward.
We talk of Oles vision but what exactly is it? Since he's came in we've played a high pressing game, playing it out from the back, possession game, counter attack and god knows what else. The excuse for the last 3 months last season was the players weren't fit enough. I really don't see any marked difference in our play this season. Injuries will be used as an excuse. Does Pogba being out really debilitate us? I don't think it does. Does Martial being out really debilitate us? Depends on the Martial that shows up but generally no. Does Rashford being out really debilitate us? Not the way he's been playing lately. Don't get me wrong. They are extremely good players but this is where my beef with Ole comes in.
A good manager coming in can steady a sinking ship and to give Ole his dues he did that, albeit that ship sure did have big holes in her at the end of the season and was teetering again but a great manager coming in can change the whole dynamic.
I remember in 2015 the state Liverpool were in. They probably had worse players than we have now and were playing worse footbal (OK maybe an exaggeration) we beat them 3 or 4 and played them off the park and remember in 2015 we were hardly world eaters but we looked it against them. About a month later Klopp came in and with the same players transformed them completely in a short space of time. If Klopp had players like Pogba, Martial and Rashford then I would say they would be a massive miss for the team but Ole never has or never will have the know how to change players mentalities to make them world beaters. If he failed at Cardiff what made us think he would succeed for us.?The coaching staff is a the same, nice blokes but no idea on top league tactics. From the manager on down they need to inspire players to take them to the next level. Not going to happen with what we got.
The question is who do we get to replace him? People talk about Eddie Howe but I really am in 2 minds about him. Has done brilliantly to get where he is but is it a step too far for him? I don't think Zidane will last too much longer at Madrid. I personally wouldn't like to see him here but if he could the the best out of Pogba and Martial then it would be an obvious plus and being a football legend will certainly bring respect in the dressing room. Portos manager Sergio Conceicao looks like he could be going places but he could be the next Mourinho or the next villas_boas. Probably a bit too volatile for Ed though.
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Honestly think Ole is less qualified to be a DOF than a manger, he’s won (and lost - that helps believe it or not) as manager.
What has he done that qualifies him to be a DOF? Sure he’s been a player but did he get involved in contract negotiations, strategies, pipelines etc?
I took that as him toeing the company line and avoiding ruffling furthers and creating unnecessary animosity, I could be wrong. I agree that both deserve to be sacked, Woodward for the shitshow that is post Fergie United and Ole for being woefully out of his depth.
I think a few did seem to have upped their level in the first few games. Both Pogba and Martial before they got injured played better than last season. McTominay too. De Gea, Wan Bissaka, James and Maguire have all played decent to good. Then you have others who have been awarded trust and new contracts like Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, Mata who have all continued their bad form or even regressed further. Those players have been heavily critiqued and not always trusted as first teamers under Mourinho, but yet we expect them to be that, Ed certainly seem to expect the manager to get more out of those players. The fact those players was our weakest links when we kind of played alright the first few games makes it apparent how far behind we are when these players now are expected to carry our team. I wouldn't expect the team we put out to play good even under an elite manager like Pep or Klopp.
I think the truth is finally revealing itself now that our squad is very thin and each player has to carry a personal responsibility for their own contribution to the team. I quite like this, but it depends on us having a strong leader that can use this information to make the right decisions going forward. Sadly, Woodward will play the majority of fans like a fiddle and they'll be on the Ole out train pretty soon, despite everyone knowing what was the plan and then ditching that plan once again not even half way through a project. It is quite bizarre.
"We need to many remove players and create a culture that isn't poisonous and destructive" But.. "We can't change everyone at once".. Then surprise surprise we still have problems. "How did this happen? Must be Ole who sucks!"
Ed is a moron. Ole might not be a good manager but the squad is revealing itself day by day under these conditions, and that is valuable information and highly relevant for success on the pitch in the future.. more so than changing the manager. Ed is supposed to use that information to buy better players. To see him sit up there like he actually cares is kind of mind blowing to see.
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United look like the team everyone expected to see this season. Tipped around 4th-6th. That means you´ll win some and lose some. Could still beat Arsenal next, it´s not worse than that. But, there was a little hope that Ole could perform miracles, like he did when he first came in, and disappointment when it don´t happen again.
For whoever the fans wants in next, it would be the same initial agreement that this one needs to be given time. We cannot continue to sack managers all the time. We need to be patient. Then crying for him to be sacked when patience in needed.
Let Ole build his team. 4 new signings. But then he i suppose, he better start winning.
For whoever the fans wants in next, it would be the same initial agreement that this one needs to be given time. We cannot continue to sack managers all the time. We need to be patient. Then crying for him to be sacked when patience in needed.
Let Ole build his team. 4 new signings. But then he i suppose, he better start winning.
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How uninspiring is Carrick. Sits like a gormless wimp on the bench. How can he possibly motivate anyone
I maybe onboard with this, he’s been there a while now and not much is improving.
I like him and the players he's bought. But I see no evidence of coaching competency from him or his staff.
Has there been any progress to how we play other than now having two competent defenders added to the backline? If so, what?
Has there been any progress to how we play other than now having two competent defenders added to the backline? If so, what?
Missed penalties, if player XYZ scored this chance we would be top of the league, Ole needs two years, the players are rubbish, player XYZ was injured and they would have massively affected the result.
What numerous reports from what valid sources?
Our transfer strategy has been non existent since Fergie left. I can't believe you are willing to pin our recent transfer problems all on Ole and Phelan when we've had issues for 6 years. Hell, we even had under investment from 2006 - 2013 under the Glazers too.
I can see tour point about Oles management style maybe not cutting it. But he is not the biggest problem at the club. Woodward and the Glazers are.
Why go there. Why start attack people´s personality. Everyone is charming when you´re winning.
I think a few did seem to have upped their level in the first few games. Both Pogba and Martial before they got injured played better than last season. McTominay too. De Gea, Wan Bissaka, James and Maguire have all played decent to good. Then you have others who have been awarded trust and new contracts like Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, Mata who have all continued their bad form or even regressed further. Those players have been heavily critiqued and not always trusted as first teamers under Mourinho, but yet we expect them to be that, Ed certainly hope to get more out of those players.
I think the truth is finally revealing itself now that our squad is very thin and each player has to carry a personal responsibility for their own contribution to the team. I quite like this, but it depends on us having a strong leader that can use this information to make the right decisions going forward. Sadly, Woodward will play the majority of fans like a fiddle and they'll be on the Ole out train pretty soon, despite everyone knowing what was the plan and then ditching that plan once again not even half way through a project. It is quite bizarre.
"We need to many remove players and create a culture that isn't poisonous and destructive" But.. "We can't change everyone at once".. Then surprise surprise we still have problems. "How did this happen? Must be Ole who sucks!"
I semi agree. I think the squad is still poor overall - i knew we were in trouble today seeing pereira mata and matic start.
What i feel does fall in Ole’s backyard is his team selection and tactics in relation to personnel. Mata and matic just couldn't get forward today to support james and rashford and pereira isn't a forward so bought nothing to he table. If he wanted to insist on the high press and getting forward quickly he had fred and gomes on the bench, who whilst not the best two midfielders going are at least mobile and fit that system better. Or, if he wanted to play mata and matic, we needed to play different tactics.
The only issue with this is that if Ole is the wrong man then giving him more time is only going to sink us further into oblivion. To show that he is the right man he has to deliver improvements with what he has and that includes arresting the slide that he failed to arrest towards the end of last season and into this season. Tolerating failure and going into the summer with another doom and gloom mood enveloping the club will only make the rebuild more difficult, where do you think a player like Maddison would rather go between struggling United that finished 8th or thereabouts or City/Liverpool?
DoF is someone who can identify decent players and instil a way of playing throughout the club. It helps that he loves the club.
James and Wan-Bissaka show he can identify players who are a good fit for the club. Unfortunately he is feckin clueless as a manager.
Wouldn't surprise me. They've got a track record of PR to deflect blame. DOF case in point!
You mean a tweet from a sports journalist who could only know what he claims to know from a senior source within the club.
Come on, the board have deflected blame before.
I'm not blindly defending Ole, I do think he is struggling. But why would he not want more signings to strengthen the squad?
That sounds like a DOF for stalybridge Celtic, if you parlay a DOF with City’s boys or Barcelona and Madrid it’s more like super agent with loyalties to your club and bungability where I really think baby face would not do so well.
I have posted quotes from Ole himself saying he only wanted 1 or 2 more and so :
About Rashford and Martial :
You can find loads of evidence from his quotes to journalists tweets saying he was content to enter the season with only Rashford and Martial.
However you won't find a single piece of evidence he was frustrated with the market. It's all assumptions.
You don’t believe everything that is said in public do you
The problem is you and others want us to not believe what's reported in the media from quotes to journalists and deflecting them with things like "Journalist is Woodward's tool" or "Ole is just keeping everything positive" while you and others are pushing assumptions based on absolutely nothing bar personal opinions as if it's the truth. I mean in things like these everyone should be posting their evidence on their opinion. What's you and others evidence that he was frustrated with the market and was hard done by Woodward ? That it feels dumb ? Even when you brought a Telegraph article about Mandzukic, it also said he's comfortable entering the season with no more signings.
This isn’t going well at all.
I believe nothing in the press (don’t get me started on that on a football forum
)All I am saying and I could be wrong as you could also be wrong there is no way in the history of football a rookie manager sabotages his own chances by leaving himself light up front or any position to be fair.
What irritates me is that he was quick to push Lukaku and Fellaini aside when we're in desperate need of both.
Hate to finally say it, but OLE OUT, now. Yes, tomorrow morning.
We are too inconsistent and we cannot create goals; conceding one goal means a desperate race to get the equalizer and conceding 2 means the match is lost no matter what; hell, we cannot even score 1 goal and kill the match. There's the constant fear of conceding 1 or 2 goals. It's over. This is not 15-16, not even 18-19, this is 13-14 all over again.
We are too inconsistent and we cannot create goals; conceding one goal means a desperate race to get the equalizer and conceding 2 means the match is lost no matter what; hell, we cannot even score 1 goal and kill the match. There's the constant fear of conceding 1 or 2 goals. It's over. This is not 15-16, not even 18-19, this is 13-14 all over again.
I believe nothing in the press (don’t get me started on that on a football forum
All I am saying and I could be wrong as you could also be wrong there is no way in the history of football a rookie manager sabotages his own chances by leaving himself light up front or any position to be fair.
Fair and I myself respect your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.
It is ridiculous that he seems to be under zero pressure. I said before he was appointed (even during his good spell) that he was massively out his depth and the wrong appointment. I’ve no idea why he is being given some free pass despite zero progress being shown since he was appointed.
The inability to win an away game just shows he poor he is tactically. United won’t progress at all under him, he should be let go as soon as possible to minimise any further damage to this season.
The inability to win an away game just shows he poor he is tactically. United won’t progress at all under him, he should be let go as soon as possible to minimise any further damage to this season.
Yes, and that doom and gloom mood is us, the fans.
United have a thin squad. When you did not get those 4 extra signings, you at least need to have your best players on the pitch to fight for that 4th spot. The rest of them alone, are delivering more of less like expected. United need a new midfield.
If Ole starts Pereira, Matic and Mata in the same lineup again, we better sack him.
Yeah we all know the signings didn't materialize bit why isn't he trying something else to at least stabilize the team. Any football person from fan to the most accomplished of managers can tell you that Matic and Mata are over the hill and these are the players he persists with against dangerous sides like West Ham (to us at least) and Leicester?
When Fergie chased out Keane in the middle of the 05 - 06 season he made do with O'shea and Giggs in central midfield. Ole needs to take notes from that and conjure up a functional midfield from the players that he has at his disposal. I'd suggest Tuanzebe, McTominay/Fred, Pogba and Gomes in an Atletico style 4-4-2 or a diamond and a banishment of Mata and Matic from the first team. McT and Tuanzebe as your hatchet men whilst Pogba and Gomes provide the creativity for the two strikers.
Going in with the same tried and failed players is effectively throwing away matches before a ball has been kicked in anger. It's better to fail whilst trying something new than to trust the same players that have betrayed manager after manager.
Bollocks. We're in desperate need of both a CM and a striker yes but not them. They've proven they're not good enough and they don't fit our style. Getting rid of them was a good move, not replacing them was stupid. That's on Woodward.
Slightly harsh... we've conceded 6 goals in seven games. One was a 30 yard goal of the season contender. One is a pinpoint free kick. One a goalkeeper error that De Gea saves 99 times out of 100.
I don't think the defence is an issue; even with its current lack of protection.
Exactly this. As a club our EBITDA over the last two years has been £375m compared with a net spend of £110m. Unbelievable underinvestment.
We need to move on from this 4231 it's not doing us any favours at all. We need to try something different I.e 433, 451, 4141
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