I have stated similar thoughts in another thread and it doesn´t seem to go down all to well to be positive about Ole´s tenure here.
That said this post is a breath of fresh air on here WUM, long may it continue.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
That said this post is a breath of fresh air on here WUM, long may it continue.
Just because Oles spent less doesn't mean he's actually made us any better. Pep and Klopp have both spent a lot.
Jose signed Pogba, Ibra, Mkhi and Bailly in his first summer - all of these were good and helped us finish second and win the EL. Ole won't come close to that.
In his second season, Ibra and Rojo got injured, which removed two of our starters from the previous season. So we had to spend to replace them - we got Lindelof and Lukaku - both of whom were ok but not amazing. We also got Matic who was good for a season.
And then we just stopped spending. Fred and Dalot, both of whom are meh right now. And his other targets - Maguire and Perisic - weren't signed.
Mou started well, then floundered. But ole hasn't made us any better. Wan Bissaka and Maguire help our defence - but we've weakened significantly in midfield (no Herrera) and in attack (no Lukaku as an option). Just because our net spend is less means nothing.
Jose signed Pogba, Ibra, Mkhi and Bailly in his first summer - all of these were good and helped us finish second and win the EL. Ole won't come close to that.
In his second season, Ibra and Rojo got injured, which removed two of our starters from the previous season. So we had to spend to replace them - we got Lindelof and Lukaku - both of whom were ok but not amazing. We also got Matic who was good for a season.
And then we just stopped spending. Fred and Dalot, both of whom are meh right now. And his other targets - Maguire and Perisic - weren't signed.
Mou started well, then floundered. But ole hasn't made us any better. Wan Bissaka and Maguire help our defence - but we've weakened significantly in midfield (no Herrera) and in attack (no Lukaku as an option). Just because our net spend is less means nothing.
Oh so you were using net and still making it up. Well Van Gaal sold his biggest signing, had Mourinho done the same then his net would’ve been much closer. Instead we still have the asset and one of the other assets has also just been sold. This is why the net spend isn’t relevant. If you want make it relevant it would need to be the net outlay for those specific players and factor in their worth if we sold them now.
Alex Ferguson didn’t manage United in 2014. It was 181m in 2013 so that’s an increase of over 28%. Once again, you’re talking shite.
Exactly. Maybe I can point out Messi from a list and then act surprised that he's paid a fortune? Is that how it works? Jose wanted Sanchez and got his man. Had they not got him the deal, and paid what was necessary, he would have whined like a baby as usual.
Yes it is Mourinho’s fault we give enormous contracts to shit like Jones, Young, Lingard. It’s Mourinho’s fault someone gave 350k a week to Alexis. It’s Mourinho’s fault Ed Woodward gloats about how rich we are and clubs spank us 50m for players worth 20m.
Actually it’s Mourinho’s fault that we have been shambles for 6 years according obsessed posters who don’t see the big picture and how this club is being horribly run before and after he left.
Actually it’s Mourinho’s fault that we have been shambles for 6 years according obsessed posters who don’t see the big picture and how this club is being horribly run before and after he left.
Any comment on this then or are we just ignoring?
It’s the culmination of three managers lacklustre purchases, Moyes started it off by wasting a whole summer and then paying a ridiculous for Juan Mata.
LVG’s were more busts than hits, with only Martial really being his success, which is debatable, given the cost. (Shaw and Herrera were bought before he started with his supposed approval.)
Mourinhos only success was a world record but (Pogba) and maybe Lindelof, the rest were either garbage or injury prone/one season wonders. (Id give him Ibra as well)
So since SAF left we have really only added 4 quality signings, which is unacceptable at the highest level and for the amount we have spent.
But hell will probably freeze over before we appoint a DoF who could actually take some of this burden away from the manager who might then be able to focus on tactics etc.
LVG’s were more busts than hits, with only Martial really being his success, which is debatable, given the cost. (Shaw and Herrera were bought before he started with his supposed approval.)
Mourinhos only success was a world record but (Pogba) and maybe Lindelof, the rest were either garbage or injury prone/one season wonders. (Id give him Ibra as well)
So since SAF left we have really only added 4 quality signings, which is unacceptable at the highest level and for the amount we have spent.
But hell will probably freeze over before we appoint a DoF who could actually take some of this burden away from the manager who might then be able to focus on tactics etc.
As much as Jose deserves bashing, it's a real stretch to say Ole has started turning things around. We seem to be trying to reign in our ballooned wage structure which is good but on the actual pitch, Ole has it all to prove and I can't say the signs look particularly exciting.
Honestly, it seems pretty obvious that we’re not going to agree. How you can look at the spending of all the managers and the wage bills and think they’re similar is beyond me, I’ve put the facts out there, you’ve done your bit. I’ll let people make up their minds.
You haven’t put the facts out there because the facts for Mourinho and Van Gaal show a blatantly similar rise in transfers and wages. You’ve deliberately increased one’s spending and ignored the rest. You’ve falsely stated Mourinho spent 200m more than Van Gaal and pretended there wasn’t a huge increase in wages in the first three years after Fergie left. Those are the actual facts and you’ve ignored every one of them. Yes, our wage bill increased under Mourinho. No shit, everybody’s wage bills have increased and the greater acceleration came before Mourinho and it’s all on Woodward.
Surely you're not writing him off because of that!? He's been good for a while now.
The only 2 are Darmian and Rojo. Everyone else got sold
2 trophies and runner up is a mess
3 wins in 15 is progress in the right direction
Welcome to redcafe
3 wins in 15 is progress in the right direction
Welcome to redcafe
fecking Mourinho. Won 2 trophies and finished second. He ruined us.
I mean yes. Welcome to redcafe. Where any footballing opinion doesn’t need nuance.
Wtf is this post? Honestly, would people rather have Mourinho here than Ole? Is that what people are saying?
Good clubs have a good, tidy fundament as a base. And a team is not down to one guy only.
Examples, Pep choose Man City because of Txiki Begiristain. Wolves have one of the best agents in the business, Jorge mendes and is a chinese driven club. Klopp have spoken about the same, he would need a good environment to make the best of his plans. Henche Gegenpress - which was a trial and error untill the two last pieces of the puzzle arrived - Allison and Virgil came in. Ole, is in a Urias post. Man Utd have to break down to grow big again, and get the fundaments right. Slowly the fundament is growing again. Ole is a hardworking guy, there are many references to that online, see those that are closest to the club for reference, and he is not a muppet as said by united`s fans (and by calling someone a muppet, then you yourself is the biggest one). Ole can put a cabinet at place where it belongs, he just doesn`t do it out in the open. When i read comments around, i think that is a very wise call - henche all the ignorance and toxic environment that is nowadays online (past managers did not have to deal with that factor far as much, life was simpler), or else he would contribute to bully his own players. That is not intelligent or wise or even modern leadership.
I mean, use your brains, do you as a manager bite of the hand that feeds you (the board), by critisizing them in the media, or do you steady the ship. Starting with getting salarys down, implementing youth, make belief again. Make it a family again, first and foremost, make it United. Step by step. Any manager, can not in modern business be arrogant to the leaders over you, you have to create an environment which has a good fundament. See it as house building. Meanwhile ignorance and toxic comments against it`s teams players, and manager will also be a factor, and will eventually be a two front war, and that never goes well - look at history.
Ole has too much respect for Manchester United to offer the board ultimatum, i want this, i want that.
One other factor, before, when Man Utd were great, really great. They could buy any player. Nowadays in modern football, the smaller clubs earns much money through tv deals etc, that they do not need to sell their best players anymore. Before they had to, nowadays they dont. Henche it is not always as simple to get the right players in when you want them. It`s not Football manager. It`s not just, do this and all goes well.
It would be better to loose as a family than to win as an individual, or maybe not?
.. and Old Trafford is outated soon too. Man Utd have really fallen behind, everything goes so fast today. Change this, change that, do this, do that. Best you did it yesterday, or i will sack you. That does not create an identity, it creates robots, and to make robots, you have to build a factory.
Emotions are good, but can fastly become a virus that will come an bite you in the a**e, in the long run the fans looses.
Examples, Pep choose Man City because of Txiki Begiristain. Wolves have one of the best agents in the business, Jorge mendes and is a chinese driven club. Klopp have spoken about the same, he would need a good environment to make the best of his plans. Henche Gegenpress - which was a trial and error untill the two last pieces of the puzzle arrived - Allison and Virgil came in. Ole, is in a Urias post. Man Utd have to break down to grow big again, and get the fundaments right. Slowly the fundament is growing again. Ole is a hardworking guy, there are many references to that online, see those that are closest to the club for reference, and he is not a muppet as said by united`s fans (and by calling someone a muppet, then you yourself is the biggest one). Ole can put a cabinet at place where it belongs, he just doesn`t do it out in the open. When i read comments around, i think that is a very wise call - henche all the ignorance and toxic environment that is nowadays online (past managers did not have to deal with that factor far as much, life was simpler), or else he would contribute to bully his own players. That is not intelligent or wise or even modern leadership.
I mean, use your brains, do you as a manager bite of the hand that feeds you (the board), by critisizing them in the media, or do you steady the ship. Starting with getting salarys down, implementing youth, make belief again. Make it a family again, first and foremost, make it United. Step by step. Any manager, can not in modern business be arrogant to the leaders over you, you have to create an environment which has a good fundament. See it as house building. Meanwhile ignorance and toxic comments against it`s teams players, and manager will also be a factor, and will eventually be a two front war, and that never goes well - look at history.
Ole has too much respect for Manchester United to offer the board ultimatum, i want this, i want that.
One other factor, before, when Man Utd were great, really great. They could buy any player. Nowadays in modern football, the smaller clubs earns much money through tv deals etc, that they do not need to sell their best players anymore. Before they had to, nowadays they dont. Henche it is not always as simple to get the right players in when you want them. It`s not Football manager. It`s not just, do this and all goes well.
It would be better to loose as a family than to win as an individual, or maybe not?
.. and Old Trafford is outated soon too. Man Utd have really fallen behind, everything goes so fast today. Change this, change that, do this, do that. Best you did it yesterday, or i will sack you. That does not create an identity, it creates robots, and to make robots, you have to build a factory.
Emotions are good, but can fastly become a virus that will come an bite you in the a**e, in the long run the fans looses.
Amazing Jose fans are celebrating 2nd when Jose himself said it's just the best loser. All his career he played down managers who came 2nd or didn't win big trophies but somehow did amazing salesman job at ManUtd.
On Grant
On Grant
I wouldn’t call it celebrating but second is better than anything we did the fours previous or are likely to do this year. It’s still not good enough mind you but there needs to come a time when everyone realises that things won’t change for the better just by changing the manager.Amazing Jose fans are celebrating 2nd when Jose himself said it's just the best loser. All his career he played down managers who came 2nd or didn't win big trophies but somehow did amazing salesman job at ManUtd.
On Grant
Fact we had to rid of so many players is a problem in itself.
No. Only you see that.
Things won't change just by changing the manager, it will change by removing the manager who isn't working out and replace him with better managers or managers who are better fit to the team/club.
We have done the first part, lets see if we have done the second part too.
Let's hope not.
Well isn't that what all who want to replace Ole with a better one are crying for?
The board might not act if Ole complained about our lack of ambition in the transfer market but the fans and his mates in the media will. Bad press means bad business especially for the sponsors who are responsible to pay for Woodward's salary and the Glazer's debts. No one wants to be associated with a club with no ambition who is being criticised by everybody.
OP should read,
"It took Woodward six years to make this mess, Ole's already starting to turn it around".
"It took Woodward six years to make this mess, Ole's already starting to turn it around".
Not sure how is that even related to what I posted but whatever.
Mourinho's third season was total disaster in all areas. But to say that his whole reign was bad and that he left a mess is nonsense. Except Alexis and maybe Fred( we will see) where is that mess? He did what was the job of United manager; won trophies. Finished second which now looks as a good result. It is not some big success in terms of result but if we will accept 4th now then how 2nd was bad only one year ago? Yes, he bought few players for whom we can say that they are flops like Alexis and Fred. Is buying 2 or 3 wrong players in 3 years that kind of damage which needs years to be repaired?
It is not that he didn't deserved to be fired but this lets blame Jose for everything is just ridiculous.
And what price did we pay for those two small trophies and 2nd of the league? The season after, he kicked all his toys out the pram because he didn't get a new CB. He threw his players under the bus while bigging himself up constantly. He went as far as insulting the club's history in order to big himself up. He created such a toxic atmosphere around the club as a whole nobody was happy. He stopped getting results and ruined our chances of getting top four within the first half of the season before he got the sack. During his tenure our reputation has been severely damaged. He got results using a cowardly playing style that none of the fans wanted to see. What a great feckin manager he was. Praise Mou.
don't forget Darmian
The title of this thread seems very familiar.
Amazing Jose fans are celebrating 2nd when Jose himself said it's just the best loser. All his career he played down managers who came 2nd or didn't win big trophies but somehow did amazing salesman job at ManUtd.
On Grant
I dont celebrate 2nd that much.
But when you call ole who's on a pretty abysmal record better progress than jose... well...
We're just about 3 games started. Dont be so sure.
Would love to be proven wrong, but ole point tally isnt brimming with confidence.
We shall see.
One way to work out if Ole is truly turning it around is to look at the individual matches and whether the results are better than last year.
Man Utd vs Chelsea
2018/19 - 2-2 2019/20 4-0 +2 points
Wolves vs Man Utd
2018/19 2-1 2019/20 1-1 +1 point
Man Utd vs Crystal Palace
2018/19 0-0 2019/20 1-2 -1 point
So Man Utd have picked up 2 more points than they did last season in the corresponding fixtures. Let's see where things stand after 10 games.
Man Utd vs Chelsea
2018/19 - 2-2 2019/20 4-0 +2 points
Wolves vs Man Utd
2018/19 2-1 2019/20 1-1 +1 point
Man Utd vs Crystal Palace
2018/19 0-0 2019/20 1-2 -1 point
So Man Utd have picked up 2 more points than they did last season in the corresponding fixtures. Let's see where things stand after 10 games.
I am afraid you are using the wrong coach as an example. Klopp did not come from Molde and he went toe to toe with Bayern in the League and Champions league. So i think you should use another manager as an example. Liverpool knew what they were getting with Klopp and they bought into his plan.
So this brings me to my point i often make. What do we see in Ole that gives us hope besides him getting rid of players and making his options limited. He admitted that if he sells Sanchez he will be thin up top. This makes me nervous the same way Moyes made me nervous when he told us to aspire to our rivals level. Ole does not exude confidence, he speaks a big game but his in game management is atrocious.
Jesse Lingard being a starter even though he is off form speaks volumes. So i ask this again can anybody make me understand and give me hope that we will finish top 6 instead of top 10 with Ole at the wheel. I will always support my team regardless.
I was talking about his entire tenure from december. His had poor ending to the season but still ended up with 3rd most points.
We were closer to Cardiff who were in 16th place than 4th placed team when Jose got sacked. Shouldn't be hard to better than but stranger things have happened in football.
Edit: As much as I don't like that toxic man, I have to say I enjoyed his first season and especially the europa league win. Hopefully we will win it again.
Current Chelsea team is worse than last year, without their best player, with many injuries at the time, under worse manager after a transfer ban.
We shall see
Anything less than 6th means we're going backwards. I think that's fair enough. I gave jose 4th or the boot. Infact i give ole 2 place handicap this year.
I honestly feel for the delusional people here. They're setting themselves up for a shock.
- Status