Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Enigma_87]

Such as?

Brandt, Ziyech, Sarabia,Demirbay, Thorgan Hazard, Tadic, Bergwijn, etc.

Some of those names moved for nominal fee or were at around 20m pounds, even less.

In comparison we were quoted 50m pounds for Longstaff.

 

[romufc]

This is Woodward saving money without any replacement.

Why is mata, darmian rojo Jones still here ?

They have tried to sell Darmian and Rojo, but it is not easy.

Mata, Jones are there for experience and versatility. You cannot get rid of all experienced players at once.

Be real.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Kloop took over Liverpool in October after they sacked Rodgers. He took them to 8th. Second season, it was 4th, then 4th again. Then 2nd last season. So you could argue, that we should be giving Solskjaer at LEAST 2 full seasons before we actually say anything. Look at the new signings. They're all playing good football - better than most on that pitch. If Ole is the manager, that brings in 3-4 new players in the next two windows, he'll have a different position as most players would have been brought in by him, unlike him coming in as a new manager with some of our players having been through 3-4 managers throughout their United-career. It's a different mentality if he's the one brining new players in.

How can you possibly compare Klopp to Ole? Every major club wanted Klopp when Liverpool signed him because of his work in Germany, of course they would give him time.
What has Ole proven as manager to give him time? Won the Norwegian league 5 years ago and relegated Cardiff before getting fired after 9 months.

 

[Bestofthebest]

Ole will be our director of football inside two years.

A world class coach will get a rejuvenated squad challenging again.

If the rejuvenated squad you are talking about is the same squad we have now then you are having a laugh. Any new coach will have to do the same as Ole has to do, which is get rid of the dross and get better players in to replace them and improve the overall quality of the squad some of whom should come through the academies. If they are good enough.

I really wish it was as easy as you think but I stopped believing in magic wands a long time ago.

 

[R'hllor]

I honestly feel for the delusional people here. They're setting themselves up for a shock.

That type will never be shocked, will find a way to spin whole thing up somehow.

 

[romufc]

I really love how some fans who are protecting Jose saying It wasn't Jose who chooses the players coming in, the club brought them in when the flops are mentioned i.e Sanchez, Mikhi, Bailly

Whereas, the same fans are criticising Ole's so called young British approach.

Are they trying to say Jose got no say in transfers and Ole has got a major say? that is just really poor thinking.

 

[Raven96__]

I dont think hes starting to turn it around.

Mourinho gave you a great second season, your best one post SAF era.

It only went downhill in the third season.

I wish you would have realistic expectations, give him time, but so far? I dont see much improvement.

 

[Enigma_87]

I really love how some fans who are protecting Jose saying It wasn't Jose who chooses the players coming in, the club brought them in when the flops are mentioned i.e Sanchez, Mikhi, Bailly

Whereas, the same fans are criticising Ole's so called young British approach.

Are they trying to say Jose got no say in transfers and Ole has got a major say? that is just really poor thinking.

Who said that?

 

[MackRobinson]

@Wumminator Excellent OP. Don't mind the Mourinho ride-or-dies. He was a egotisical, disrespectful, past it, checkbook manager, who took no responsibility for his hand in building a team he called HIS 18 months before he was rightfully sacked. The only people who can't see this are those who either a) are obsessed with credentials and a CV and b) those who ensnared by his cult of personality. Not only was he backed, but he was given the longest leash of the top level manager I've seen in a while. He almost single-handedly set United back 3 years.

 

[MackRobinson]

Who said that?

@romufc is correct. Multiple people claimed this. Check those old Jose threads.

 

[romufc]

@romufc is correct. Multiple people claimed this. Check those old Jose threads.

Who said that?

There are quite a few posts on various threads where fans have either said Jose wasn't backed or the club brought the players in.

E.g. The Sanchez deal

But when it comes to this transfer window many are happy to jump on Ole for targetting young British buys?

 

[AshRK]

Another thread blaming the manager, this time an ex-manager. 4 managers have been appointed in the last 6 years and 3 of them could not take the club to the top and the fourth may also struggle, surely there is something beyond the manager now. Why did the board only signed 3 players this season when our squad was pretty weak, why did the board gave Ole the job in March when they could have waited till the season tot end, why did the board offer Jose a extension in between of the season when he did not do much to deserve, why did the board not hire a DoF the moment Jose got sacked. There are many other questionable decision the board has done and yet some here just like to blame everything on the managers.

 

[Sarni]

Also, the suggestion Mourinho wasted money while LvG did well in the market and left a better team is also a funny one when you look transfer by transfer. We hardly lost any money on any of them, players who are left at the club would be sold at a profit if we moved them aside from Sanchez and maybe Bailly (who was actually quite good in his first season). There's no material difference between the quality of signings made by Jose and LvG, though our best transfer in recent years (Pogba) was delivered by Jose.

We were right to fire him and he was taking us nowhere in the end but the suggestion that van Gaal was good for us while Mourinho was terrible is something only a person with agenda would come up with.

As for Ole, he has a lot left to prove. It's not unthinkable he will leave us in a worse state than he got when he started here, but obviously the hope is that he is able to turn it around. He has not so far though but it's so early I am willing to give him time for sure.

 

[MackRobinson]

The defense Jose gets on this forum at times is bizarre.

It's one of the most mind-boggling things I've ever seen. These guys literally ignore facts and invent their own realities to absolve Mourinho of any blame. What makes it even more absurd is sheer amount of people who actually believe he wasn't that bad.

 

[Random Task]

Brandt, Ziyech, Sarabia,Demirbay, Thorgan Hazard, Tadic, Bergwijn, etc.

Some of those names moved for nominal fee or were at around 20m pounds, even less.

In comparison we were quoted 50m pounds for Longstaff.

Every one of those players are unknown quantities, their futures far from guaranteed, which is the opposite to what Ole was looking for heading into his first season in charge. After the countless transfer market failures under Jose and LVG, throwing away a large sum of money in the process (£750 million or thereabouts), we adopted a more cautious approach to spending this summer, bringing in players who had proven themselves in the PL, and so far it seems to have paid off. Both AWB and Maguire look like quality additions to our backline. Dan James, although nowhere near the finished article, has buckets of potential.

I think we spent very wisely this summer, the only downer was not reinforcing the midfield area which is going to hurt this year.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Also, the suggestion Mourinho wasted money while LvG did well in the market and left a better team is also a funny one when you look transfer by transfer. We hardly lost any money on any of them, players who are left at the club would be sold at a profit if we moved them aside from Sanchez and maybe Bailly (who was actually quite good in his first season). There's no material difference between the quality of signings made by Jose and LvG, though our best transfer in recent years (Pogba) was delivered by Jose.

We were right to fire him and he was taking us nowhere in the end but the suggestion that van Gaal was good for us while Mourinho was terrible is something only a person with agenda would come up with.

As for Ole, he has a lot left to prove. It's not unthinkable he will leave us in a worse state than he got when he started here, but obviously the hope is that he is able to turn it around. He has not so far though but it's so early I am willing to give him time for sure.

You mean someone supportive of LvG during his tenure and someone critical of Mourinho during his?

Hmm, whomever could that be..

 

[Wumminator]

Also, the suggestion Mourinho wasted money while LvG did well in the market and left a better team is also a funny one when you look transfer by transfer. We hardly lost any money on any of them, players who are left at the club would be sold at a profit if we moved them aside from Sanchez and maybe Bailly (who was actually quite good in his first season). There's no material difference between the quality of signings made by Jose and LvG, though our best transfer in recent years (Pogba) was delivered by Jose.

We were right to fire him and he was taking us nowhere in the end but the suggestion that van Gaal was good for us while Mourinho was terrible is something only a person with agenda would come up with.

As for Ole, he has a lot left to prove. It's not unthinkable he will leave us in a worse state than he got when he started here, but obviously the hope is that he is able to turn it around. He has not so far though but it's so early I am willing to give him time for sure.

No one is suggesting LVG did well. His transfer failings set us back massively. However nothing he did was remotely as bad as Jose’s long term impact.

 

[Stacks]

Things won't change just by changing the manager, it will change by removing the manager who isn't working out and replace him with better managers or managers who are better fit to the team/club.

We have done the first part, lets see if we have done the second part too.

Liverpool seem to have done that. went through Hodson, Dalglish, Brendon then Klopp (who is world class). Like most teams, they went through the trial and error method and lucked out

 

[Ekeke]

We had people saying the same about LVG's mess and Mourinho making it better.

 

[MackRobinson]

Liverpool seem to have done that. went through Hodson, Dalglish, Brendon then Klopp (who is world class). Like most teams, they went through the trial and error method and lucked out

This needs to be repeated. Nobody likes to talk about FSG before Klopp or about how insanely lucky they were to get him.

 

[Wumminator]

This needs to be repeated. Nobody likes to talk about FSG before Klopp or about how insanely lucky they were to get him.

Or how they've backed Klopp less than any of our managers.

 

[Random Task]

Another thread blaming the manager, this time an ex-manager. 4 managers have been appointed in the last 6 years and 3 of them could not take the club to the top and the fourth may also struggle, surely there is something beyond the manager now. Why did the board only signed 3 players this season when our squad was pretty weak, why did the board gave Ole the job in March when they could have waited till the season tot end, why did the board offer Jose a extension in between of the season when he did not do much to deserve, why did the board not hire a DoF the moment Jose got sacked. There are many other questionable decision the board has done and yet some here just like the managers.

None of Woodward, Moyes, LVG or Jose can be absolved of blame here. They have each played a part in our current predicament by drastically failing at their jobs.

 

[Handré1990]

I’m all for giving Ole some time, but nothing has been turned around yet.

 

[AshRK]

None of Woodward, Moyes, LVG or Jose can be absolved of blame here. They have each played a part in our current predicament by drastically failing at their jobs.

I get that and agree with it but yet most of the threads since saturday's loss is about Ole and I don't even see any Woodward out or Glazerout threads. It's not about defending Ole or Jose or Moyes or LvG, I could care little about the past 3 sacked manager and I won't even say Ole is the guy to take us forward but I just cannot agree with people saying sacking Ole will solve everything. No manager can work in this system.

 

[Enigma_87]

@romufc is correct. Multiple people claimed this. Check those old Jose threads.

There are quite a few posts on various threads where fans have either said Jose wasn't backed or the club brought the players in.

E.g. The Sanchez deal

But when it comes to this transfer window many are happy to jump on Ole for targetting young British buys?

That's nonsense then. The only player I could remember that was brought on Jose that he didn't really like was Shevchenko 15 years ago.

Of course he should be blamed if a player turned out to be a dud.

In terms of not being backed - in the third window yes he wasn't. Can't say about the previous two that he wasn't of course.

 

[Sarni]

No one is suggesting LVG did well. His transfer failings set us back massively. However nothing he did was remotely as bad as Jose’s long term impact.

It was exactly as bad or worse. Whoever Mourinho managed to sign we have either got rid of without any problem or would have zero problem getting rid of if we wanted. We even managed to offload Sanchez.

We did not make huge progress under either of them but at least under Jose we had a good season and won two decent trophies.

 

[Enigma_87]

Every one of those players are unknown quantities, their futures far from guaranteed, which is the opposite to what Ole was looking for heading into his first season in charge. After the countless transfer market failures under Jose and LVG, throwing away a large sum of money in the process (£750 million or thereabouts), we adopted a more cautious approach to spending this summer, bringing in players who had proven themselves in the PL, and so far it seems to have paid off. Both AWB and Maguire look like quality additions to our backline. Dan James, although nowhere near the finished article, has buckets of potential.

I think we spent very wisely this summer, the only downer was not reinforcing the midfield area which is going to hurt this year.

No one's future is guaranteed mate. Even Maguire and AWB can turn out to be duds(not saying they are). My point was that you shouldn't limit your options.

We are really short in terms of squad this window. Players that went should've been replaced. My point was there are good players that don't cost north of 50m pounds.

 

[billybee99]

Moyes was not here long enough to do lasting damage.

LVG took us forward as a club and won our first silverware post Ferguson.

In a time when money in football absolutely exploded, we trusted it to Mourinho who wasted more money than any other football manager. He has left us worse off.

If you include transfers and wage bill, we spent roughly 600 million for Mourinho’s tenure and ended up with Lindelof and Pogba as first team players. Lindelof was at fault for the goal this weekend so I’m not sure how long he will last.

Bastian, Di Maria, Falcao, Morgan, Rojo, and Memphis say hi.

 

[romufc]

That's nonsense then. The only player I could remember that was brought on Jose that he didn't really like was Shevchenko 15 years ago.

Of course he should be blamed if a player turned out to be a dud.

In terms of not being backed - in the third window yes he wasn't. Can't say about the previous two that he wasn't of course.

I might get one more post before I am blocked so here goes.

Then you are not the fan I am refering to which there are a fair few who think Jose didn't want them. Jose did nothing to improve any player. None of our players improved under Jose.

The 3rd year he was not backed because of two reasons IMO.

1. He wanted a CB - He bought 2 which had failed miserably until then, and Ed Woodward did not want to spend £60m on Maguire or Godin but spent £80m on Maguire a year later
2. He wanted ageing players like Perisic who Inter valued at £50m and couldn't reduce the fee by £5m

It was a case of the board starting to lose trust in him with his media outbursts and all sorts.

 

[Wumminator]

Bastian, Di Maria, Falcao, Morgan, Rojo, and Memphis say hi.

One loan. One we made a profit on. One retired. One young player who we easily moved on.

All poor players for us. None caused us as many issues as Sanchez or Fred have.

 

[LoneStar]

The problem is we have such a paper thin squad I doubt we'll get top 4 or win the Europa.

Players like Sancho would think twice before joining us.

We should have spent more this summer, especially if we were letting both Sanchez and Lukaku go, as well as Herrera. That's so much wages off the books.

 

[Random Task]

I get that and agree with it but yet most of the threads since saturday's loss is about Ole and I don't even see any Woodward out or Glazerout threads. It's not about defending Ole or Jose or Moyes or LvG, I could care little about the past 3 sacked manager and I won't even say Ole is the guy to take us forward but I just cannot agree with people saying sacking Ole will solve everything. No manager can work in this system.

With all due respect to Ole, he is nothing more than a means to an end. He isn't going to solve all of the clubs problems on the pitch because he lacks the tactical ability to do so in my opinion. But he knows the club inside out, he knows what it means to be a United player and who the fans will adhere themselves too, and I think that will reflect in his recruitment policy.

If he can maintain a sensible approach to the transfer market, rather than the blase galactico policy that failed so miserably in previous seasons, he can at least set us on the right path. Lay the foundations, if you will, for a more experienced and tactically astute manager to take advantage of at a later date. I think the board are in full support of this approach too - Woody included, although he's lucky to still be in the job.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

Brandt, Ziyech, Sarabia,Demirbay, Thorgan Hazard, Tadic, Bergwijn, etc.

Some of those names moved for nominal fee or were at around 20m pounds, even less.

In comparison we were quoted 50m pounds for Longstaff.

I am pretty sure they would have quoted astronomical fees for all of these players had we been interested. I am sure it's not just us, any English team for that matter. Which English club has got players for 'nominal' fees this year?

 

[davidmichael]

I would go as far as to say the start of the mess began when Moyes fecked things up getting rid of all Sir Alex’s backroom staff and then fecking things up with Rio, Vidic and Evra who were all big dressing room leaders and if I remember right our first choice captain selections.

The dressing room has never been the same since and that was the start of a certain dressing room mentality lost and the decline set in, we’d lost that winning mentality and desire or never say die attitude that saw us give 100% on the pitch. LVG came in with his “philosophy” which took us further away from the mentality and then Jose basically killed it as it was his way or no way and now we are where are.

Ole may not be the greatest manager but what he does have is that certain mentality about how we should play and wanting to win everything, he was in so many of our great squads and won countless trophies. Ole knows what is wrong with the club and how far we’ve strayed away from how things were so he knows what needs to be done and if he only lays the foundation for a better manager after him then that is still an important role he’d have played.

 

[shamans]

I dont think hes starting to turn it around.

Mourinho gave you a great second season, your best one post SAF era.

It only went downhill in the third season.

I wish you would have realistic expectations, give him time, but so far? I dont see much improvement.

No he didn't . We played like crap. A second place finish just masked that and it was all exposed in the third season. Things don't just "go downhill". Mourinho was a failure.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

With all due respect to Ole, he is nothing more than a means to an end. He isn't going to solve all of the clubs problems on the pitch because he lacks the tactical ability to do so in my opinion. But he knows the club inside out, he knows what it means to be a United player and who the fans will adhere themselves too, and I think that will reflect in his recruitment policy.

If he can maintain a sensible approach to the transfer market, rather than the blase galactico policy that failed so miserably in previous seasons, he can at least set us on the right path. Lay the foundations, if you will, for a more experienced and tactically astute manager to take advantage of at a later date. I think the board are in full support of this approach too - Woody included, although he's lucky to still be in the job.

This would make sense if our board had a brain. If results go south ole will be sacked and the next manager however tactically astute comes across will have a 'transition' on his hands. It's inevitable

 

[ash_86]

With all due respect to Ole, he is nothing more than a means to an end. He isn't going to solve all of the clubs problems on the pitch because he lacks the tactical ability to do so in my opinion. But he knows the club inside out, he knows what it means to be a United player and who the fans will adhere themselves too, and I think that will reflect in his recruitment policy.

If he can maintain a sensible approach to the transfer market, rather than the blase galactico policy that failed so miserably in previous seasons, he can at least set us on the right path. Lay the foundations, if you will, for a more experienced and tactically astute manager to take advantage of at a later date. I think the board are in full support of this approach too - Woody included, although he's lucky to still be in the job.

I support this. There is no need for Ole to travel with us like Fergie did, but it has to be said that he/club have realized where we have gone wrong in the last few years and have started to take corrective actions. Ship out the players who are of little or no use, integrate youth from the academy and invest wisely on good players that want to play for us. This should be the mantra that the club should be sounding out who ever comes in after Ole. This is how we position ourselves to be better in the future.

 

[shamans]

I would go as far as to say the start of the mess began when Moyes fecked things up getting rid of all Sir Alex’s backroom staff and then fecking things up with Rio, Vidic and Evra who were all big dressing room leaders and if I remember right our first choice captain selections.

The dressing room has never been the same since and that was the start of a certain dressing room mentality lost and the decline set in, we’d lost that winning mentality and desire or never say die attitude that saw us give 100% on the pitch. LVG came in with his “philosophy” which took us further away from the mentality and then Jose basically killed it as it was his way or no way and now we are where are.

Ole may not be the greatest manager but what he does have is that certain mentality about how we should play and wanting to win everything, he was in so many of our great squads and won countless trophies. Ole knows what is wrong with the club and how far we’ve strayed away from how things were so he knows what needs to be done and if he only lays the foundation for a better manager after him then that is still an important role he’d have played.

Evra was a shadow of his former self. Rio and Vidic were absolutely finished. In fact, Moyes' biggest mistake was starting Rio and Vidic together.

Moyes' mess aside, the squad was an extremely aging one as well. This mess started since the glazers have refused to back the squad up with proper money. SAF gave us a massive head start. Glazers refused to capitalize

 

[ravi2]

Another thread blaming the manager, this time an ex-manager. 4 managers have been appointed in the last 6 years and 3 of them could not take the club to the top and the fourth may also struggle, surely there is something beyond the manager now. Why did the board only signed 3 players this season when our squad was pretty weak, why did the board gave Ole the job in March when they could have waited till the season tot end, why did the board offer Jose a extension in between of the season when he did not do much to deserve, why did the board not hire a DoF the moment Jose got sacked. There are many other questionable decision the board has done and yet some here just like the managers.

The buck stops with Woodward, the issue is as long as he is bringing in money for the Glazers nothing will every truly change because the man is not good at his job.

 

[MisterLupus]

How can you possibly compare Klopp to Ole? Every major club wanted Klopp when Liverpool signed him because of his work in Germany, of course they would give him time.
What has Ole proven as manager to give him time? Won the Norwegian league 5 years ago and relegated Cardiff before getting fired after 9 months.

Anyone would get fired from that Cardiff team - it was a huge mistake to even take that job (though you learn from mistakes and failures as well so it probably wasn't all wasted) - and knocking Rosenborg off it's throne in Norway was actually quite the sensation (they'd been totally dominant for an entire generation miles ahead of everyone else both in terms of quality and resources). Also - what he's currently doing at United is proof enough to most of us he deserves a fair shot. He's made good signings (though we should probably have made two more to strengthen our midfield and offense) and you can also see he's implementing a whole new style of play that's a huge step towards positivity compared to the destructive approach that was cultivated (unsuccessfully so even) when he came in.

We're better both off and on the ball - our passing and positioning is improving and we're actually putting teams under pressure attempting to create our own chances rather than sitting back hoping fortune will throw a couple our way. Even our defense has improved - we were a mess when he came in - and player attitude as well as their fitness alongside their work rate has increased. There's a positive buzz surrounding the club again - despite people like yourself still doing your best to drag it down.

Considering where we were at last December - you have to be both deaf, blind and dumb to still think he's some clueless gimmicky appointment and without merits. Merits matter feck all anyways - that's in the past and you can see from our previous managers how much past glories are worth. In order to judge whether or not someone's suited for a task you have to keep your eyes on what's currently going on - and at current we're showing improvements in pretty much every era of play while also keeping to our traditions as a club.