There have been talks about the limit of overseas players being reduced in the Premier League. So it could be a club think tank idea to strike British talent now rather than a season or two (if the ruling happens) as the value of those players will increase significantly, supply/demand etc.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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There have been talks about the limit of overseas players being reduced in the Premier League. So it could be a club think tank idea to strike British talent now rather than a season or two (if the ruling happens) as the value of those players will increase significantly, supply/demand etc.
Love your green smilies don't you?!
But when Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked when they had poor form (without having any great form prior) it shouldn't matter.
He was 3rd with 4 points behind 1st, how is that poor form? Losing in CL group stages has happened to many better coaches and none of them were sacked.
This is just random and all over the place. Meh done with this shit, wasted enough time already.
We are talking about the form of caretaker managers and it going to shit after an initial purple patch - as happened with both Di Matteo and Solskjaer. Attempting to compare that to hugely successful multi league winning managers like LVG and Jose going through a bad patch is completely disingenuous and kinda pointless.
Well SAF practically ran our transfer business so isn't the best example. If Ole is behind this transfer strategy though he certainly should receive the blame afterwards if it doesn't work out.
TBH I'd also prefer young players but not from the island because they are significantly overvalued.
Conversely, it is also too easy to blame Ole for all that went wrong.
But I did not give Ole all the credit neither did I blame him for all that went wrong. Players need to also take a look at themselves as well. The manager cannot physically and literally rewire the players' minds on the pitch.
That won't happen overnight though, as you mentioned.
Also the value of those players currently is through the roof. If we sign top players from abroad during those 2-3 years they most likely will qualify for work visa and also there will no doubt be exceptions allowing them to continue playing.
Past it toxic manager having bad patch is ok, but manager who broke record for away wins, having bad patch when team lacked in so many departments means he should be sacked. I dont like green smilies but sometimes I have to
They are super expensive, but there's nothing to suggest that the valuation of these players wont keep increasing. The market is absurd right now, every Summer the valuation seems to increase by 10-15m.
No, but it is the manager's responsibility - if the players minds are falling apart on the pitch why the feck is that happening?!
If Ole gets the players and fails to produce, he should be responsible for that. I prefer manager to keep the atmosphere good when they don't get what they wanted (like Poch did) rather than manager creating toxic atmosphere like Jose did.
I'm sure Ole will keep everything in the dressing room like SAF used to.
PL is still a mega billion business. The interests simply won't allow having a serious restriction on foreign players IMO. There might be some restrictions but they would most likely be home grown players that will receive visa after 2-3 years either way.
The value of these players will either way keep increasing as the bottom clubs become richer. It's a stupid strategy if you ask me. Better invest in youth(academy) rather than this shite in order to get 'ahead' of the competition.
Past it toxic manager having bad patch is ok, but manager who broke record for away wins, having bad patch when team lacked in so many departments means he should be sacked. I dont like green smilies but sometimes I have to
I think it tends to be what people do when they don't have an intelligent answer.
Says more about you when you see green smiley rather than the post content.
Yes I run a business and business is all about resolving issues taking calculated risks, applying contingency etc...
Issue - repeated recruitment of proven experts in business sector to managerial position failed - need a fresh approach
Issue - workers in team not working very well as a cohesive unit, some not pulling weight, some not living up to expectation, some always looking at jumping ship to competitors - need holistic recruitment policy
Calculated risk - recruit/promote someone to management who knows the business inside out versus recruit a proven manager in same business sector. Facts - already tried proven manager in same business sector and failed multiple times. Analysis our business is unique within the business sector due to size, prestige and history. Need to try something new. Decision recruit someone who has worked for business during most successful period and apply contingency plans
Calculated Risk - recruit young hungry players over experienced mercenaries. Fact experienced mercenaries costing business fortune in wages and not proving value for money. Analysis - seem to be here for the salary but not fitting into the team.
Contingency Plan - given there is a risk that new management appointment may fail as previous one did apply a recruitment policy of hungry young workers, local where possible, with potential so that any future manager has the foundations of a team who know the business and are keen to prove themselves to take forward
The post content was cack quite frankly.
You polluted a discussion comparing Solskjaer and Di Matteo - guys who both were appointed when their performance as caretaker managers unexpectedly made them candidates for the job permanently. They then, after initial success, ran into spells of poor form - leading to Di Matteo being sacked.
What relevance does long-term permanent managers running into a spell of bad form have to do with anything? Apart from anything else I pretty much guarantee that had Jose or LVG taken the club through a spell as bad as United's form at the end of last season they would have been sacked anyway. In that sense Ole was hugely lucky that it came literally just as he was appointed permanently - if it had started 5 games earlier he would never have been given the job. the end of the season came at a very opportune time for him. I suspect your attempt to muddy the waters is because you knew what a mess you'd gotten yourself into.
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OK, another way of looking at it is that it is frankly mental to think that just cos the last 2 well qualified candidates you appointed didn't make the grade that you'll give the job to a guy whose CV doesn't measure up and who got sacked last time he worked at anything approaching the level of your business.
We've been through 3 managers now: Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho. All had credentials, none of them worked out.
So we are trying something new, that frankly other clubs have done with massive success. Can't have success if you're not allowed to try.
Sir Alex Ferguson was nearly sacked early on in his Man United career.
Pep Guardiola and Zidane only had reserve team coaching experience when they were given the reins of two of the biggest clubs in the world.
Why not just give the man a chance and be supportive? All this rampant criticism everywhere.
As a last note: Ole wasn't appointed because he had 0 pedigree or knowledge about football. He was appointed because the results he brough to the club at the point of being hired were the best in Premier League history with a new manager.
You can hindsight all you want until you cream your pants, but it is what it is and we might as well embrace it.
fecking hell, first thing it's rich from you to call any posts poor or lack content. Maybe you don't read your own posts or accuse anyone of polluting any discussion. If anything this thread is a shit fest thanks to you and couple of your buddies (and few more who are banned)
Re bold part, it's hilarious. Ole was also long term permanent manager and both (Jose and Van Gaa) of them had very poor form not once but multiple times and they didn't even play great teams like PSG, Barca in their poor run of form.
re second bold part,
desperate to add these little things in every post. Sums up your posts though.He's getting his chance, and in the ground I will be supportive. If that's OK with you?
I don't even know what you're trying to say now and I suspect you don't either. Quick question for you to keep things simple - do you think LVG and Mourinho would have been sacked if they had ended the season with that run of form?fecking hell, first thing it's rich from you to call any posts poor or lack content. Maybe you don't read your own posts or accuse anyone of polluting any discussion. If anything this thread is a shit fest thanks to you and couple of your buddies (and few more who are banned)
Re bold part, it's hilarious. Ole was also long term permanent manager and both (Jose and Van Gaa) of them had very poor form not once but multiple times and they didn't even play great teams like PSG, Barca in their poor run of form.
re second bold part,
They keep saying SAF was nearly sacked. No he wasn't. It was the fans who were wanting him sacked not the club. The club stuck with him, but he also had a great track record. Pep and Zidane took over great teams and were giving backing to get the best, not a board who know nothing about football, cannot negotiate to save their lives and at times overrule the incumbant manager.
Moyes didn't have credentials to become United manager. He became one because of Fergie and us not vetoing that decision. He was mediocre manager just like Ole. Ole is much more similar to Moyes than Moyes is to LvG and Jose.
We have tried the non United manager standard already - Moyes. Turned out the worst appointment of the bunch.
No. First 10 games, Van Gaal got 13 points, this is excluding the hilarious 4-0 loss against MK dons. So 11 games - 3 wins - 4 draws - 4 losses. This is after signing the players he wanted and had preseason.
Second season, 8 games without a win and we didnt even play any decent team except Chelesa. Apart from this, our form from Oct 25th to Jan was shit. He still survived.
In 2016-17, we played 11 league games with 2 wins, 3 losses and 6 draws.
Ended season with 1 win in last 6 games, this season we ended season with 1 win in last 6 league games. Only difference is we played shit teams in Europa league to save his ass, we played PSG and Barca this season in CL.
All these managers spent money, had preseason and still had poor form (multiple times) still they weren't sacked.
I hereby permit you, gracefully, with the power invested in me by no one, to be supportive.
This is a crucial question that needs more discussion.
We all want the club to do well but some of us are not in agreement about the best way forward. I found that a healthy discussion.
What separates Ole Gunnar from Moyes/LvG/Mou is that he’s in a unique position as a former player, and that gives him extra credibility among us supporters, something the other managers didn’t have.
We can all agree that the squad is a mess of different players bought by managers with different philosophy’s. I think we can also agree that many players isn’t directly committed to the club, some maybe care more about money and others want to leave for different reasons. That’s a problem any new manager needs to address and ASAP fix so he can implement his ideas. To succeed Ole Gunnar needs most of his players to be on the same page, he needs them to be committed and most important he can’t have rotten apples in his squad, history has shown us multiple times what that can do to the results.
At the moment we have several key players who wants to leave. Pogba and Lukaku has even going so far that they instruct their agents to make noises so it will happen. If the club can’t find a solution around this problem then Ole will face a uphill battle from day one of this season. Why put himself in such situation?
In his last interview Ole Gunnar acted as everything is rosy and on schedule. Not one single word of concerns and a few hours later supporters around the world could read about our mess. Doesn’t install confidence if you ask me.
Now to the part when we disagree. In my book Solskjaer has a golden opportunity to speak out in public about his concerns. Doesn’t mean he’s negative or not committed. It means he has serious concerns about the future and how this will affect our results. Nobody will blame him for being honest. Nobody will ask for his head. A manager who address what everybody can see will gain credibility among supporters and probably from local media. In that situation it will be almost impossible for the owners and Woodward to not help him. It’s also a about showing leadership. This club needs a leader who take control. Right now we are a super tank without a visible captain on board. One yes man, one account man who doesn’t seems to understand football and invisible owners who cares about .....money ... I suppose...
So what’s the benefit of being frank and honest.
I think he will buy himself time, nobody expect him to immediately turn this around. He will find acceptance to clear the deck from deadwood and players who’re not committed.
My experience is that it will be easier to turn this ship around with committed players then with over paid prima donnas. Maybe we will take a big hit financially, maybe it will take time to rebuild but give me a better solution. We need to try and the person with power to makes this happen apart from the owners is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
It’s impossible to be 100% sure but I think we can find enough quality replacement to finish top four if we try hard enough. Then when this is done we can build from that position.
That’s my take. I understand if not everyone agrees with me but after almost 40 years experience I know one important thing. Motivation and hunger can climb mountains and the ride to reach the top is also a huge attraction to many young talents. I want to be part of that ride as a supporter, I don’t want to witness another lame season with players who don’t care and a glorified yes sayer whiteout charisma and leadership.
That’s a very good post mate. Agree with all these.
They succeeded because they were given the tools to work with. He might surprise us, but I just have my doubts.
I haven't any coach who spoke against owners and survived. Not even SAF did that, they should keep everything in the house. Obviously they should push for the deals internally but once it's out in public, it always ends in one way and we all know that.
I don't see how they can sack him unless we are not in top 6. The squad he has isn't even top 4 quality. It's an utter mess.
We are closer in quality to Wolves, Leicester, Everton n Westham than we are to the top 2.
An absolute monstrous year where we finish lower than 6th would be great for me. It would put serious pressure on Glazer scum to sell up. Woodward wouldn't even be safe at the ground I don't think.
We are closer in quality to Wolves, Leicester, Everton n Westham than we are to the top 2.
An absolute monstrous year where we finish lower than 6th would be great for me. It would put serious pressure on Glazer scum to sell up. Woodward wouldn't even be safe at the ground I don't think.
Exactly. Ole isn't working with Messi, Xavi & Iniesta. Or Ronaldo, Modric & Kroos.
He's working with a mess like those Milan managers had. Maybe worse.
Some of the people we are being rumoured to be interested in are the sort of players a club would sign to keep them out of relegation trouble, not to challenge for the Top 4.
The Milan clubs are a great comparison and they are still a million miles away from Juventus and that may never change.
I cannot agree with this more, whenever something like this is mentioned, the response I have got is Mourinho did that look what happened.
However; this is different, in that the fans, ex players, and I am sure Ole himself by coming out and saying this is last time you will see certain players, believe that this group of players is not good enough and 4/5 first team signings are required.
So far he has not been backed by the board like they said they would, and have not got rid of players either.
I do not expect Ole to come out and moan, he is well spoken so I would hope that he can find the right way to put pressure on the board and gain extra time from the supporters because, the way it is going Old Trafford could be hostile within a month of the start of the season.
Ole is backtracking on a lot of things he said. A lot may have been said in the heat of the moment. His emotions getting the better of him. Maybe reality is beginning to set in for him. We will not know until the window is shut.
I am dreading seeing Gareth Bale skulking through Manchester Airport towards the end of this window.
He don’t speak against the owners. Why do you thing that’s the case?
We don’t even know the owners stance on this. A good leader show ambitions, is honest and describes what he sees. Such qualities is valuable and rare. The owners aren’t stupid, they care about their investments and committed co workers will always be rewarded. As long as Solskjær doesn’t go behind their back it’s no problem. Address the problems, inform, then present a way forward. Questions!?
Why do you think it's not discussed? Just because he isn't saying anything in public doesn't mean he might not have discussed it with owners/Woodward.
SAF was great leader, how many times did he talk about the problems in public? He doesn't have to, as long as he believes there is good work being done behind the scenes.
What we need is manager and the management team working as a team, solving issues internally and create a great atmosphere at the club, not washing their dirty laundry in public.
It's one thing to voice your concerns internally, and another to act publicly like everything is great. That's my issue with this. Would it be problematic to say we've signed two good players and are working tirelessly to improve the squad, expecting more signings. More vague and neutral. It doesn't have to be one or the other, but I started getting more worried when he said we were a fantastically well run club.
But if it’s not in public, how will we know? We, the fans, beed to know, in order to make informed decisions. Will Andy Mitten at least tell us?
He also said we signed 2 players and will do more business.
I love Ole Solskjaer the legend of a player. The problem is that some people can’t differentiate between legend of a player and now manager who really, after 10 years in management, has done nothing to justify his permanent appointment.
People were clamouring for him to be made permanent manager off the back of 10 matches. But then when things went south the argument was “don’t judge him now, judge him after he’s had a window”
Ok now his got his window and honestly he’s appearing just as out of his depth, if not more, then Moyes did. People still backed Moyes even when a blind man could see he was crap simply because of “your job now is to support your new manager” people will back Ole even when it becomes more obvious that he’s wrong, when season starts, simply because he was a legend of the player. But truth is signs are there now, just as with Moyes, just as with mourinho in his last season that it’s not going to work for whatever reason.
Also this talk about him being a “young manager” is really bull crap, he’s mid 40s and has 10 years experience. He’s age where managers enter their peak, eg Pep, Klop, Poch, Conte etc. SAF was very rare to keep winning into his 60s and 70s. Most managers peak years are between 40-50 before they decline, eg Wenger.
People were clamouring for him to be made permanent manager off the back of 10 matches. But then when things went south the argument was “don’t judge him now, judge him after he’s had a window”
Ok now his got his window and honestly he’s appearing just as out of his depth, if not more, then Moyes did. People still backed Moyes even when a blind man could see he was crap simply because of “your job now is to support your new manager” people will back Ole even when it becomes more obvious that he’s wrong, when season starts, simply because he was a legend of the player. But truth is signs are there now, just as with Moyes, just as with mourinho in his last season that it’s not going to work for whatever reason.
Also this talk about him being a “young manager” is really bull crap, he’s mid 40s and has 10 years experience. He’s age where managers enter their peak, eg Pep, Klop, Poch, Conte etc. SAF was very rare to keep winning into his 60s and 70s. Most managers peak years are between 40-50 before they decline, eg Wenger.
He walked into a difficult situation.
He should be judged from now on, he's had a window and pre season. If we end up going 10 games without a win he will be under pressure.
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