Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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You find it confusing that others are concerned about the United job being given to a guy who got sacked by Cardiff last time he managed at this level and who presided over the worst run of form for 60 years?

I keep reading stuff like this 'unwilling to give him a chance' comment - he's getting a chance, he's in the job, all we're doing is discussing whether we think he's going to make a success of it.
Being concerned at this stage of his tenure is unwilling to give a chance. If Mourinho stayed, I doubt we would make top 6, talk of being in the conversation for the top 4 as we were.

You're going to use his time at Cardifd against him? You think SAF would've kept that Cardiff team up?

Your concerns are premature. When he's had half a season and inherited someone's team mid season
 
Yet it was Ole who gave those rebuilding speeches that aren't living up at the moment.

Ole is 4 years younger than Moyes when he was appointed, let's not pretend he hasn't got a 10 years worth of managerial career prior.

Picking a risky manager (like Moyes) when you are in the shit usually ends up being in the shit and zero improvement - like Moyes. The worst appointment for us so far was the worst manager out of the lot - Moyes. Ole might end up beating that if he extends that last season form and lose us another transfer window buying players from the Championship.

Again, explain to me how that is a problem? If the Manager wants to rebuild and the chairmen isnt allowing it then its on the chairmen not the Manager. Whats the Manager meant to do exactly? Smuggle in new players?

Which is precisely my point, we were on top when we appointed Moyes and that was a very risky appointment. A completely unnecessary risk. You can go back and find many posts by me claiming Moyes was a dumb appointment destined for failure (I got a lot of shit at the time for suggesting it). But we're in a different period right now at United, our squad is gone and is in dire need of quality. We don't win many trophies and haven't looked like a title contender for a while.

Travel back in time however:

7/8 - Chelsea 2nd on 85 points
8/9 - Chelsea 3rd on 83 points (FA Cup Win)
9/10 - Chelsea 1st on 86 points (FA Cup Win)
10/11 - Chelsea 2nd on 71 points

So when Di Matteo was appointed in 11/12 they were having a terrible season. But given they had finished in the top 3 in the last 4 seasons running they were clearly a quality side and didn't need to take a risk on a young unproven Manager. Their league form was fine, squad was fine. Just needed a new approach.

Compare that to United:

14/15 - United 4th on 70 points
15/16 - United 5th on 68 points (FA Cup Win)
16/17 - United 6th on 69 points (League Cup, Europe League Win)
17/18 - United 2nd on 81 points

Finished top 3 once in 4 seasons, won Trophies granted but only looked to be a contender once in those 4 seasons. I can't be bothered to check the League form when both Managers were sacked and Di Mateo/Ole took over but I think they were both pretty shit. I just don't see how the two scenarios are the same. Anyway i'll remain objective when it comes to our Managers. So far Ole hasn't been backed by Ed and co, just like Jose wasn't backed last Summer, the difference being that Jose had already spent a mini fortune at United. Ole hasn't and this goes back to my greatest concern with Ole. The club simply won't back him and right now with the state of the squad it needs huge investment and we're just not seeing it as of now. Still time left in the window mind.
 
Also it's funny how few who were "concerned" about United couldn't stop their love and support for Mourinho in the third season when he was just shit and created worst possible atmosphere at the club or how they didn't mind when he shat on ManUtd after Sevilla PC.
 
Hilarious, Jose wasn't backed and it was Woodward's mistake. No we didn't sign players but it's on Ole because he gave some speech.
Jose constantly received flack for signings, what he said, what he didn't. Yet now we're giving Ole a free pass on all transfer business and what he says in the media because he's a likable person?
 
What have we got to lose? That implies that you think things can't get any worse? They can, and they probably will.

It implies that I don't know yet whether things will get worse or get better in exactly the same way that I wouldn't know if things would get worse or get better if we hired a proven 'world class' established coach such as LVG or Mourinho.

What I do know is that we have tried the 'proven' approach and it hasn't worked and so although things can get worse (just as they can get better), they could equally get worse or better if we hired an experienced coach. Therefore, based on the fact that we have tried and failed with one approach we have nothing to lose by trying a different approach over trying the same failed approach again and again.
 
Jose constantly received flack for signings, what he said, what he didn't. Yet now we're giving Ole a free pass on all transfer business and what he says in the media because he's a likable person?

What? Jose Mourinho got the signings he wanted, he got the flak when he talked shit about the club and performance was terrible.

If AWB flops then Ole will get criticism for signing him. Two situations are not comparable at all.
 
Again, explain to me how that is a problem? If the Manager wants to rebuild and the chairmen isnt allowing it then its on the chairmen not the Manager. Whats the Manager meant to do exactly? Smuggle in new players?

Which is precisely my point, we were on top when we appointed Moyes and that was a very risky appointment. A completely unnecessary risk. You can go back and find many posts by me claiming Moyes was a dumb appointment destined for failure (I got a lot of shit at the time for suggesting it). But we're in a different period right now at United, our squad is gone and is in dire need of quality. We don't win many trophies and haven't looked like a title contender for a while.

Travel back in time however:

7/8 - Chelsea 2nd on 85 points
8/9 - Chelsea 3rd on 83 points (FA Cup Win)
9/10 - Chelsea 1st on 86 points (FA Cup Win)
10/11 - Chelsea 2nd on 71 points

So when Di Matteo was appointed in 11/12 they were having a terrible season. But given they had finished in the top 3 in the last 4 seasons running they were clearly a quality side and didn't need to take a risk on a young unproven Manager. Their league form was fine, squad was fine. Just needed a new approach.

Compare that to United:

14/15 - United 4th on 70 points
15/16 - United 5th on 68 points (FA Cup Win)
16/17 - United 6th on 69 points (League Cup, Europe League Win)
17/18 - United 2nd on 81 points

Finished top 3 once in 4 seasons, won Trophies granted but only looked to be a contender once in those 4 seasons. I can't be bothered to check the League form when both Managers were sacked and Di Mateo/Ole took over but I think they were both pretty shit. I just don't see how the two scenarios are the same. Anyway i'll remain objective when it comes to our Managers. So far Ole hasn't been backed by Ed and co, just like Jose wasn't backed last Summer, the difference being that Jose had already spent a mini fortune at United. Ole hasn't and this goes back to my greatest concern with Ole. The club simply won't back him and right now with the state of the squad it needs huge investment and we're just not seeing it as of now. Still time left in the window mind.

I think we disagree with the core principle of appointing a newbie manager when we're on the slide. To me is exactly the opposite. If we don't have competition we can afford to appoint a rookie manager. But in this case appointing Ole is a mistake that we will lose 1-2 seasons on top of that.

You are comparing the notion on the two clubs stature at the time, but the original point was the two managers at the time - their credentials, why they were appointed and what was expected to happen.
 
Funny how this is always posted and not the other stat when players were fit.



https://talksport.com/football/502750/manchester-united-crystal-palace/
I think it's pretty logical that our most recent form is what is looked at primarily. We completely fell apart in the latter part of the season - not just in terms of fitness but in terms of looking demotivated, lacking inspiration, and tactically clueless. The unbeaten run was brilliant, but it was superceded by total rubbish. You yourself have said that Chelsea should never have appointed Di Matteo, so I think it's probably fair to say that you don't think they should have kept in him in the job when their form fell apart the following season because he'd won the FA Cup and CL three months previously?
 
I think it's pretty logical that our most recent form is what is looked at primarily. We completely fell apart in the latter part of the season - not just in terms of fitness but in terms of looking demotivated, lacking inspiration, and tactically clueless. The unbeaten run was brilliant, but it was superceded by total rubbish. You yourself have said that Chelsea should never have appointed Di Matteo, so I think it's probably fair to say that you don't think they should have kept in him in the job when their form fell apart the following season because he'd won the FA Cup and CL three months previously?

Their form didn't fell apart, Chelsea were 3rd and just 4 points behind ManUtd when they sacked him.

I have already said why we looked shit in my opinion. That's why I believe he should be given time.

If we went by just recent form, Jose and Van Gaal wouldn't have survived half a season.
 
I think we disagree with the core principle of appointing a newbie manager when we're on the slide. To me is exactly the opposite. If we don't have competition we can afford to appoint a rookie manager. But in this case appointing Ole is a mistake that we will lose 1-2 seasons on top of that.

You are comparing the notion on the two clubs stature at the time, but the original point was the two managers at the time - their credentials, why they were appointed and what was expected to happen.

We'll clearly agree to disagree. :)
 
I think it's pretty clear that their form fell well behind what they expected from the team - otherwise they wouldn't have sacked him, surely?!

They sacked him as they didn't qualify from group stages of CL, nothing to do with league form.
 
What? Jose Mourinho got the signings he wanted, he got the flak when he talked shit about the club and performance was terrible.

If AWB flops then Ole will get criticism for signing him. Two situations are not comparable at all.
And Jose got the criticism when he underperformed and Jose got the sack when he should and Jose was criticized for the players he brought.

Same for LvG, same for Moyes, same for Ole. Woodward was/is incompetent tool from the first Summer and I've called him out from there on - you can check my posts whilst many were defending him citing lack of experience.

That doesn't change the fact Ole should be held accountant for the promises he fails to deliver - fitness levels, style of play, transfer strategy - and so on.
 
We'll clearly agree to disagree. :)
Yup :)

Of course I see your point and on the state of the clubs at the time I mostly agree with that notion. Chelsea were one of the top teams in England constantly competing for titles.
 
And Jose got the criticism when he underperformed and Jose got the sack when he should and Jose was criticized for the players he brought.

Same for LvG, same for Moyes, same for Ole. Woodward was/is incompetent tool from the first Summer and I've called him out from there on - you can check my posts whilst many were defending him citing lack of experience.

That doesn't change the fact Ole should be held accountant for the promises he fails to deliver - fitness levels, style of play, transfer strategy - and so on.

How did he fail to deliver? Did you watched 2019-20 games already? Please don't post the spoilers.

It's hilarious you spend all year blaming Woodward for not signing players last season (after spending shit loads in previous 2 seasons) but it's on Ole to deliver on transfer strategy when he isn't the money man.
 
Being concerned at this stage of his tenure is unwilling to give a chance.
My god, so nobody should be feeling any concern? Or do you just mean that nobody should be admitting to it?

You're going to use his time at Cardifd against him? You think SAF would've kept that Cardiff team up?

He was sacked the following season - so there was the relegation, then not performing effectively in the Championship after signing a load of players. Not great is it?
 
Ah I see, form in CL qualifying doesn't count?

Yeah, failing to qualify from group stages means they are always sacked. It's not as if coaches like Conte, Klopp, Van Gaal all failed to qualify from group stages before and still continued without getting sacked.

They were in good position in the league, he got sacked as they are Chelsea. They sacked manager for coming 2nd after winning league in season before.

Funny how Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked because of their poor form at ManUtd.
 
I think it's pretty logical that our most recent form is what is looked at primarily. We completely fell apart in the latter part of the season - not just in terms of fitness but in terms of looking demotivated, lacking inspiration, and tactically clueless. The unbeaten run was brilliant, but it was superceded by total rubbish. You yourself have said that Chelsea should never have appointed Di Matteo, so I think it's probably fair to say that you don't think they should have kept in him in the job when their form fell apart the following season because he'd won the FA Cup and CL three months previously?

The players take no blame for that. You can only do so much for the players and then they have to be men and take over themselves. Pogba and Lukaku have been wanting to leave before the end of the season, before Mourinho left. A lot of players were looking to leave before Ole came in and a case in point is Herrera. Ole did his utmost to pull us out of the gutter and disarray because I believe we were heading towards 10th or 11th in the table.

Ole now needs all the support he can get. It's now up to the recruitment team and Woodward to deliver.
 
It implies that I don't know yet whether things will get worse or get better in exactly the same way that I wouldn't know if things would get worse or get better if we hired a proven 'world class' established coach such as LVG or Mourinho.

What I do know is that we have tried the 'proven' approach and it hasn't worked and so although things can get worse (just as they can get better), they could equally get worse or better if we hired an experienced coach. Therefore, based on the fact that we have tried and failed with one approach we have nothing to lose by trying a different approach over trying the same failed approach again and again.
I hope you don't run a business if this is your attitude to recruitment.
 
How did he fail to deliver? Did you watched 2019-20 games already? Please don't post the spoilers.

It's hilarious you spend all year blaming Woodward for not signing players last season (after spending shit loads in previous 2 seasons) but it's on Ole to deliver on transfer strategy when he isn't the money man.
I said he should be criticized for everything he fails to deliver. Some things obviously hasn't happened yet. ;)

Woodward is constantly blamed for not being up to par on the transfer market, it's not only this year or last or something else.

This year is the first time since 6 years we see going for young/hungry Brits or raiding Championship/lower level PL teams. So if you pin it on Woodward solely that means:

1. He decided the change his strategy from going after superstars to low profile players over the course of a year.
2. Ole has no part in the transfer business, then what difference would it make being given a transfer window to bring his OWN players?

You do understand Woodward is working on deals that presumably Ole has identified right? Longstaff, James, AWB, Rice etc aren't exactly his cup of tea considering what we saw in the last 6 years.

In essence if we fail to recruit the right players Ole has to shoulder the blame for steering the targets into that profile that fits his ideas right?
 
It implies that I don't know yet whether things will get worse or get better in exactly the same way that I wouldn't know if things would get worse or get better if we hired a proven 'world class' established coach such as LVG or Mourinho.

What I do know is that we have tried the 'proven' approach and it hasn't worked and so although things can get worse (just as they can get better), they could equally get worse or better if we hired an experienced coach. Therefore, based on the fact that we have tried and failed with one approach we have nothing to lose by trying a different approach over trying the same failed approach again and again.
I have my doubts about Ole, just being happy to be at Man United, therefore not properly stomping down his authority to the players and voicing concerns to the board when warranted. However, we've tried the experienced approach and it went to shite 3 times in a row, so I don't have an issue giving Ole some breathing room to implement his plan. I hope he proves himself I really do! If results aren't coming he'll be under severe pressure though and maybe axed by December.
 
It's hilarious you spend all year blaming Woodward for not signing players last season (after spending shit loads in previous 2 seasons) but it's on Ole to deliver on transfer strategy when he isn't the money man.
It's hilarious you do the exact same thing with Mourinho.
 
I said he should be criticized for everything he fails to deliver. Some things obviously hasn't happened yet. ;)

Woodward is constantly blamed for not being up to par on the transfer market, it's not only this year or last or something else.

This year is the first time since 6 years we see going for young/hungry Brits or raiding Championship/lower level PL teams. So if you pin it on Woodward solely that means:

1. He decided the change his strategy from going after superstars to low profile players over the course of a year.
2. Ole has no part in the transfer business, then what difference would it make being given a transfer window to bring his OWN players?

You do understand Woodward is working on deals that presumably Ole has identified right? Longstaff, James, AWB, Rice etc aren't exactly his cup of tea considering what we saw in the last 6 years.

In essence if we fail to recruit the right players Ole has to shoulder the blame for steering the targets into that profile that fits his ideas right?

Nothing has happened yet as we haven't even played a game in preseason.

So did you blame Woodward for failing to sign players last season or did you blame Jose?
 
We can all do the blind support thing and we all hope he’ll do well, but in my opinion we have, on paper at least, the fifth best manager at a top 6 club. Without him being really well backed, or proving himself to be a far better manager than he’s looked for all but a few months of his career, there are fairly obvious reasons to be concerned.
 
Yeah, failing to qualify from group stages means they are always sacked. It's not as if coaches like Conte, Klopp, Van Gaal all failed to qualify from group stages before and still continued without getting sacked.

They were in good position in the league, he got sacked as they are Chelsea. They sacked manager for coming 2nd after winning league in season before.

Funny how Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked because of their poor form at ManUtd.
What are you on about? I said he was sacked because of poor form - poor form includes league, cup and European games. I think you're tying yourself in knots here.

What has the sacking of a clearly out of his depth rookie manager who should never have been appointed in the first place got to do with Jose and LVG?!
 
My god, so nobody should be feeling any concern? Or do you just mean that nobody should be admitting to it?



He was sacked the following season - so there was the relegation, then not performing effectively in the Championship after signing a load of players. Not great is it?

Again, managing Cardiff is nothing like managing United. Moyes, was great at Everton but relegated Sunderland and failed everywhere else. Managing a club is not always black and white. You have to analyze with some nuance.
 
It's hilarious you do the exact same thing with Mourinho.

It would have been hilarious if it was correct or if Jose didn't sign every player he wanted except Perisic in first 2 seasons.
 
I think it's pretty logical that our most recent form is what is looked at primarily. We completely fell apart in the latter part of the season - not just in terms of fitness but in terms of looking demotivated, lacking inspiration, and tactically clueless. The unbeaten run was brilliant, but it was superceded by total rubbish. You yourself have said that Chelsea should never have appointed Di Matteo, so I think it's probably fair to say that you don't think they should have kept in him in the job when their form fell apart the following season because he'd won the FA Cup and CL three months previously?

Who knows what happened after the great initial run.

I have no idea but my theory is that perhaps when Ole came in as an interim he knew he had to work with what he had and so he very successfully built up the confidence and belief of every player (just as SAF used to). When he got the permanent appointment it probably changed the dynamic some what with Ole now coming across as I am the boss man, you need to convince me or your days are numbered etc. (just as SAF used to look for hunger after every season)..... and the bubble was burst!

Ole will have learnt a lot more about the players during the bad run and so although not ideal, Champions League aside, it may have been better for that bad run to happen last season than this coming season in order for the board to get serious about signings
 
I said he should be criticized for everything he fails to deliver. Some things obviously hasn't happened yet. ;)

Woodward is constantly blamed for not being up to par on the transfer market, it's not only this year or last or something else.

This year is the first time since 6 years we see going for young/hungry Brits or raiding Championship/lower level PL teams. So if you pin it on Woodward solely that means:

1. He decided the change his strategy from going after superstars to low profile players over the course of a year.
2. Ole has no part in the transfer business, then what difference would it make being given a transfer window to bring his OWN players?

You do understand Woodward is working on deals that presumably Ole has identified right? Longstaff, James, AWB, Rice etc aren't exactly his cup of tea considering what we saw in the last 6 years.

In essence if we fail to recruit the right players Ole has to shoulder the blame for steering the targets into that profile that fits his ideas right?

What I will agree on is the whole "sign British players" is a load of nonsense. If that is Oles idea then it's pretty fecking dumb. So much young foreign talent out there who would jump at the chance of playing for us, but you just got to find them a season earlier is all. I mean just look at the immense French talent being produced right now, are we seriously suggesting we should pass that up because they arent British!? Madness.

If however it's because we've realised that Brexit is going to cause chaos for future signings and we've decided to go British NOW and snap up some of the best talent before all the PL clubs go chasing then it's a good strategy. I don't know enough about the ramifications Brexit will have on Premier League football.
 
How did he fail to deliver? Did you watched 2019-20 games already? Please don't post the spoilers.

It's hilarious you spend all year blaming Woodward for not signing players last season (after spending shit loads in previous 2 seasons) but it's on Ole to deliver on transfer strategy when he isn't the money man.
Big managers come with demands that money be spent. Managers who wake up everyday feeling like they’re in a dream don’t make those demands.
 
Nothing has happened yet as we haven't even played a game in preseason.

So did you blame Woodward for failing to sign players last season or did you blame Jose?
That's why I said for some of those things he will he accounted for at a later stage :)

I blame Woodward for not backing up Jose when he delivered a 2nd place finish. Blame Jose for bringing up some of the signings he made obviously.

I don't see Ole complaining he isn't backed and Woodward came out and said he will back him up.

If Ole is behind the Brexit thing would you blame him for the lost window if the players we bring up don't work?

Do you agree with the strategy we have employed so far?
 
The players take no blame for that. You can only do so much for the players and then they have to be men and take over themselves. Pogba and Lukaku have been wanting to leave before the end of the season, before Mourinho left. A lot of players were looking to leave before Ole came in and a case in point is Herrera. Ole did his utmost to pull us out of the gutter and disarray because I believe we were heading towards 10th or 11th in the table.

Ole now needs all the support he can get. It's now up to the recruitment team and Woodward to deliver.
Ha, it's too easy to give Ole the credit when the team are winning and none of the blame when it all goes to shit. The truth is somewhere in between.
 
What are you on about? I said he was sacked because of poor form - poor form includes league, cup and European games. I think you're tying yourself in knots here.

What has the sacking of a clearly out of his depth rookie manager who should never have been appointed in the first place got to do with Jose and LVG?!

:lol:

I think it's pretty logical that our most recent form is what is looked at primarily.

But when Jose and Van Gaal weren't sacked when they had poor form (without having any great form prior) it shouldn't matter.

He was 3rd with 4 points behind 1st, how is that poor form? Losing in CL group stages has happened to many better coaches and none of them were sacked.

This is just random and all over the place. Meh done with this shit, wasted enough time already.
 
Who knows what happened after the great initial run.

I have no idea but my theory is that perhaps when Ole came in as an interim he knew he had to work with what he had and so he very successfully built up the confidence and belief of every player (just as SAF used to). When he got the permanent appointment it probably changed the dynamic some what with Ole now coming across as I am the boss man, you need to convince me or your days are numbered etc. (just as SAF used to look for hunger after every season)..... and the bubble was burst!

Ole will have learnt a lot more about the players during the bad run and so although not ideal, Champions League aside, it may have been better for that bad run to happen last season than this coming season in order for the board to get serious about signings
Likewise they will have learnt a lot about him. If any part of that end of season form was a loss of respect, he’ll struggle to get that back.
 
What I will agree on is the whole "sign British players" is a load of nonsense. If that is Oles idea then it's pretty fecking dumb. So much young foreign talent out there who would jump at the chance of playing for us, but you just got to find them a season earlier is all. I mean just look at the immense French talent being produced right now, are we seriously suggesting we should pass that up because they arent British!? Madness.

If however it's because we've realised that Brexit is going to cause chaos for future signings and we've decided to go British NOW and snap up some of the best talent before all the PL clubs go chasing then it's a good strategy. I don't know enough about the ramifications Brexit will have on Premier League football.

I doubt it's Woodward's idea tbh. He'd never look for underwhelming signings and is about the glamour from what I've seen.
 
That's why I said for some of those things he will he accounted for at a later stage :)

I blame Woodward for not backing up Jose when he delivered a 2nd place finish. Blame Jose for bringing up some of the signings he made obviously.

I don't see Ole complaining he isn't backed and Woodward came out and said he will back him up.

If Ole is behind the Brexit thing would you blame him for the lost window if the players we bring up don't work?

Do you agree with the strategy we have employed so far?

Of course he should be accounted for everything on the pitch, there will be no excuse.

Why should Ole complain publicly? That's what Jose did last season and how did that help the club? I would prefer the manager who thinks it's his club and keeps everything internally like SAF used to do.

No, I don't agree with strategy but then we are linked with so many foreign players too, not sure how they fit with brexit. But any day I would prefer this to signing 29-30 year old past it shit players, who signs only for one big last contract.
 
Who knows what happened after the great initial run.

I have no idea but my theory is that perhaps when Ole came in as an interim he knew he had to work with what he had and so he very successfully built up the confidence and belief of every player (just as SAF used to). When he got the permanent appointment it probably changed the dynamic some what with Ole now coming across as I am the boss man, you need to convince me or your days are numbered etc. (just as SAF used to look for hunger after every season)..... and the bubble was burst!

Ole will have learnt a lot more about the players during the bad run and so although not ideal, Champions League aside, it may have been better for that bad run to happen last season than this coming season in order for the board to get serious about signings
Well of course that's one way to look at it. I would say it's far more likely that initial 'feelgood factor' that comes from a new manager building up confidence and belief will only get you so far. I'm gobsmacked about that bit in bold - are you saying that the board have 'got serious about signings' this summer so far?
 
Big managers come with demands that money be spent. Managers who wake up everyday feeling like they’re in a dream don’t make those demands.

Yeah because you were present in the discussion between Woodward and Ole?

How come we paid shit loads of money for signing AWB then? How come we made 70 million bid for Maguire?
 
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