If we lose to Watford surely that has to be the final straw? I mean surely?
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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If we lose to Watford surely that has to be the final straw? I mean surely?
We never got any reported offers for Lingard, and he didn't seem to be in a hurry to leave either, he didn't push for a move. This makes a little sense if he wanted a squad role in what looked like could be a great season, and then having the power to sign anywhere come the summer if he didn't want to stay here further. Giving him a better sign-on deal in a hopefully better post-covid economic environment. One of his main motivations for going to West Ham on loan was also to get into the euros squad. With the World Cup in the winter next year, players can wait until the summer again before having to play frequently.
Henderson was from all reports intended to start as our #1 this year, but due to injury and then positive covid he had to start the season on the sideline. And since then De Gea has showed a real upturn in his form, making it hard to justify to start Henderson over him at this point. He was unlucky.
VdB's interest from Everton was only a loan, and they wouldn't even pay all his salary (Lingard to West Ham they covered all salary, plus loan fee, plus bonus for making Europa League). Plus he had only been at the club for one season so far, too early to "give up" on a player, even if he hasn't got a lot of chances yet this season either.
Mata was offered a squad role for less salary to be around the team as we didn't have that many senior players who had been at the club for a while. Less important what he does on the pitch, more what he does for the team on the training field and on travels. Plus they want him to move up to a club role (more than just ambassador) after he retires. It was an investment for squad harmony and the future.
£120k a week is a lot to pay a mascot.
Mata should have been offered a coaching contract and told it was either that or play football elsewhere.
I agree there is a coaching issue at the club but I would wager a lot that these players (potentially VDB and Henderson aside) will not be getting many minutes under new management.
Lingard constantly goes missing for United, he struggles against low blocks and that's what we face almost every week in comparison to what he was facing at West Ham last season. Are we supposed to drop our most creative player in Bruno and play Lingard? Playing Sancho after what we spent and giving minutes to Greenwood was absolutely the expected thing that would happen, absolutely nobody was asking for Lingard to play ahead of Sancho. If the latter was on the bench, as he is now, then it would also have been seen as mismanagement wouldn't it.
It's easy to sit here now and claim these players would have made a difference, imo they have proven in many seasons that they won't, in fact the opposite. Again this isn't a defence of the manager, more a critique of the players, they need replacing regardless of who the manager is.
This. And it's not even a defence of the manager.
It's just what happened. That said we do have a bloated squad and I believe we are very poor at moving players on when we need to, partly because our contracts reward mediocrity and potential buyers won't match the wages we've given them.
i mean i think the funniest thing with lingard is he came back from a strong west ham loan, and actually looked decent when he came on as subs (minus the hugggggeeeeeeee young boys screw up). This is coming from a person who absolutely hates lingard. But he actually looked decent and like he could contribute something this year.....aaaand then he never plays again.
Bruno pass, Ronaldo score, Varane defend. That is his instruction
Yeah in fairness he had been pretty good aside from that mistake against young boys, which was an absolute shocker.
Not sure he's going to get a look in when were trying to bed in Sancho, get Rashford back into the mix and still give minutes to Greenwood who needs them to progress.
then he shouldve been told in no uncertain terms that he will either need to find a new team, or he will rot away. Instead it seems like Ole wants this huge squad just in case everyone possible gets injured. Unfortunately players arent happy to be lied to and then just sit around it seems
I don't think Lingard wanted to go to West Ham. People are acting like Ole is purposely hoarding these players but Lingard is a United fan with lifelong ties to the club, he will have fancied his chances of competing for places, also he strikes me as a player more than happy to warm the bench.
Why would he leave his boyhood club to move to West Ham for less money? I said exactly this at the time when he was linked away.
Same with Dalot, if the Italian sides offered a fair amount then he would have gone.
i believe he was told he would be able to fight for his place. There wouldve been other options for him besides west ham, which will be obvious when he leaves after this season. I truly believe Ole is indeed hoarding these players. Im honestly surprised he let go of james. And for someone who is supposedly about giving united youth a chance, Ole has done a pretty shite overall job with that as well with keeping this bloated squad of "veterans" around.
The worst kind too.
"We'll play attacking football, he'll get his chances, we'll play youth"
What we've had is an inept coach playing awful football, lying to players about opportunities, and pretty much stagnated any youth involvement within the first team. LVG at least played youth and Mourinho won things, Ole is straight out the very worst of these two without any of the good.
I hope our players see through his BS and force him out the club.
This is exactly the reason. Ole needs players that can pull out magic out of nowehere.
Sancho DVB and the like are all technical players that Ole has absolutely no clue how to use.
We have seen this in the past, its either a worldie from our players or a long ball for Rashford to chase onto. We have no other way of playing.
Welbeck is Manchester born and raised, but when LVG told him he would be 4th choice at best, he decided to leave.
Do you really think if Ole told that to Lingard and didn't lie to him, he wouldn't have left?
I think a big part of this is the fact we overpay for mediocre players. Why would the players choose to leave for less money, we have to factor that in as well.
Ole hasn't been shy of letting players go since he came here, so I don't necessarily think he's desperate to keep all these players but we don't know for sure either way. If I'm in the managers shoes I would love to get rid of most of these players and sign some superior quality that's for sure. Some of the contracts we've given out are obscene and it's why we have a bloated squad of players, some of whom are happy to pick up a pay cheque that they won't get elsewhere.
Basically the board are saying it's not that bad yet. That ensures that things will only get more toxic the longer Ole is here. Maybe not with the OT crowd and the away fans but the banners and planes are coming.
Well considering Lingard has been largely a fringe player his entire career here and has never bothered to kick up a fuss about his playing time here then, no, I don't think he would have left regardless of what he was told if it meant he was going to be earning less money and playing for West Ham.
I think he's the type of player that is happy to be on the bench, playing for his boyhood club, doing his stuff on the side. I've nothing against him, just indifference really.
Nobody knows what Ole would have said to Lingard, but what's clear is he wasn't exactly desperate to leave. During all the paper talk he was totally silent, had no inclination to make the move happen whatsoever.
Is he back from his well deserved vacation yet?
Why would he kick up a fuss when the manager of his boyhood club publicly said he's in his plans for this season? The fact that he hasn't signed a new contract should show you he's not the type of player " that is happy to be on the bench, playing for his boyhood club, doing his stuff on the side". He also got into the England team while away from United, something that most footballers really want.
He respects United so he won't make a public stink but he's out of here first chance he gets. It's absolutely the right move for his career.
Let's see, for a start he won't get what he earns here elsewhere and that's why he's still here.
I agree it's the right move for his career but if he wasn't content why wasn't he pushing the move through himself. Because he's happy to stay here on the bench, not a doubt in my mind.
Then why hasn't he signed a new contract ?
Because we are probably trying to correct the problem we caused by paying him too much. He's holding out because we are no doubt offering him less, the moment it's close to what he's earning now then he signs that contract and is happy to do what he's done his entire United career imo.
It's not even a dig at Lingard, just when people complain that we aren't selling players as easily as it is to sell a car we need to factor these things in. The player needs to want to move, the buying club needs to want to pay the player very similar wages and they need to offer the club a fair price. The bolded part is overlooked constantly. We talk like all the fringe players can be discarded as easily as you like.
Buddy we both support the same team. If you think that first sentence is likely for a team that extended the likes of Grant, Mata and Phil Jones then I have some magic beans to sell you.He's a snake oil salesman
Ill agree on the last line, but I do think a better manager gets a tune out of those players. Had he played (imo ofcourse) Lingard on the left and Sancho on the right he wouldnt be in the position of having most of this forum calling for his head. The problem is he knew he was struggling in those two positions and in midfield and rather than using his squad properly just played his favourites regardless of form or if they had just come back from injury which is either the mark of a manager who is either too naive or too stupid to do anything about it.
Agree we shouldn’t be renewing these players but imo the only reason Lingard hasn’t already renewed is because we must be trying to lower his wage. Otherwise he would have snapped our hands off I reckon.The lad wants nothing to do with West Ham.
Isn't Ducker a club mouthpiece? Nothing makes sense these days. Fans want him gone, he's getting torn to absolute shreds by everybody. Club linked journos putting out negative articles. What the feck are the club upto here? It just honestly makes no sense.
Lingard is holding out for a free transfer and the payday that comes with it. Don't believe for a minute he looked at our squad pre season and thought he'd play more.
Others got their chance for more games but crashed out of the league Cup. There aren't going to be more games to go around under a new manager.
Others got their chance for more games but crashed out of the league Cup. There aren't going to be more games to go around under a new manager.
I can't see another manager playing McTomninay and Fred together unless he has no intention of attempting to control the flow of the game.
Because those leaks come from the players not the club. The 'considering sacking Ole' after the Liverpool game was from the club and the 3 games to fix things was from the club. Since those '3 games' the club haven't briefed anything. Hence the 'club silent on plans for the managerial situation'.
All of these player leaks come directly from a players agent or management, the club would never leak the players being unhappy, especially when they're so insistent on backing Ole.
Yeah but Sancho is arguably better off the left and both he and Greenwood needed minutes on the pitch, nobody was complaining that Lingard should be playing ahead of Sancho.
I’d still rather see Sancho getting minutes than Lingard, the former needs to become a key player for us.
This international break looked the obvious time to make the managerial change. But this board never do the obvious things well. Looks like we’ll all have to still sit and suffer a few more weeks now before the inevitable happens.
0-5 to Pool didn't do it...unless Watford put double figures past us he'll survive
Well get and say something about the situation instead of doing nothing, would suggest going to the big influences in the dressing room to air grievances but know I will get blasted for even suggesting that
Its not about whether the fringe players are good enough in our eyes. Its about what the manager told them.
If you go back to pre-season the signing of Varane was being billed as a sign we were changing formation, perhaps to 4-3-3 and that Ole was "finally" going to put his vision into practice. We were told that the concept of the double pivot with Fred and McTominay was being shelved in favour of a more progressive system. We were told that VDB had spent the summer in the gym working his balls off it get to grips with the physicality of the PL. Ole announced that VDB "would get games" , he also said he was happy for Lingard to stay as he "would get games too". I presume he told those players that over the summer. I presume he told Bailly that when he signed a new contract. I presume he told Cavani how important he was when he persuaded him to stay. Those are the ones we know about.
Cut to November and we aren't playing 4-3-3, we haven't dropped Fred and McTominay, there was no new way of playing, the players mentioned aren't getting games at all. Sancho has already been binned off despite two years of trying to sign him. I have more chance of playing than VDB, and Lingard and Pogba (pre-injury) as simply marking time until they can leave for free.
Its a complete and total shambles.
Ole has NO CLUE what his best team is. There is no pecking order whatsoever in our forward options we simply swap them out for each other in the hope that changing personnel has an effect. Cavani can play up front one week, Ronaldo the next and nothing alters despite them being polar opposite (but both exceptional) forwards. Or play them together and hope that works. We cant keep all the forwards happy and it made good sense to trim the squad in that area. If that means tough decisions then so be it. Tell Lingard he has no future. If he wants to stay after that its on him. Be honest with VDB with whatever it is that stopping him playing. Play Sancho in the role that persuaded you to pay £75m for him in the first place. Thats not THAT radical a concept. If we were playing with wing backs then why buy a wide man? because up until a month ago there was no thought of it.
The most frustrating thing for me, and I like and respect Ole for what he has achieved and his place at the club, is the fact that looking at the other teams in the league and looking at our squad I honestly believe that with proper coaching and decisive decisions we could easily be mounting a title challenge but under Solskjaer there is no way thats happening. That alone should be enough for action to be taken.
If you go back to pre-season the signing of Varane was being billed as a sign we were changing formation, perhaps to 4-3-3 and that Ole was "finally" going to put his vision into practice. We were told that the concept of the double pivot with Fred and McTominay was being shelved in favour of a more progressive system. We were told that VDB had spent the summer in the gym working his balls off it get to grips with the physicality of the PL. Ole announced that VDB "would get games" , he also said he was happy for Lingard to stay as he "would get games too". I presume he told those players that over the summer. I presume he told Bailly that when he signed a new contract. I presume he told Cavani how important he was when he persuaded him to stay. Those are the ones we know about.
Cut to November and we aren't playing 4-3-3, we haven't dropped Fred and McTominay, there was no new way of playing, the players mentioned aren't getting games at all. Sancho has already been binned off despite two years of trying to sign him. I have more chance of playing than VDB, and Lingard and Pogba (pre-injury) as simply marking time until they can leave for free.
Its a complete and total shambles.
Ole has NO CLUE what his best team is. There is no pecking order whatsoever in our forward options we simply swap them out for each other in the hope that changing personnel has an effect. Cavani can play up front one week, Ronaldo the next and nothing alters despite them being polar opposite (but both exceptional) forwards. Or play them together and hope that works. We cant keep all the forwards happy and it made good sense to trim the squad in that area. If that means tough decisions then so be it. Tell Lingard he has no future. If he wants to stay after that its on him. Be honest with VDB with whatever it is that stopping him playing. Play Sancho in the role that persuaded you to pay £75m for him in the first place. Thats not THAT radical a concept. If we were playing with wing backs then why buy a wide man? because up until a month ago there was no thought of it.
The most frustrating thing for me, and I like and respect Ole for what he has achieved and his place at the club, is the fact that looking at the other teams in the league and looking at our squad I honestly believe that with proper coaching and decisive decisions we could easily be mounting a title challenge but under Solskjaer there is no way thats happening. That alone should be enough for action to be taken.
They won't get it right even if they sack him. They will probably give it to Brendan Rodgers and all the Ole outers on here will be Rodgers outers within 2 years and we will start all over again.
This has gone beyond Ole now. Fans who think by simply removing that everything is going to be great are delusional.
We are going nowhere under this regime.
All it needs is the right manager.
Sir Alex worked under a PLC that penny pinched far more than the Glazers ever had. Read the list of players he was refused and his own contract issues as well as those of the top players at the time. We don't focus on that historically because the team was winning.
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