Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[romufc]

Fellaini is wise after the event because Moyes didn't want Fellaini when he was available for his release clause and we only returned for him after a hopelessly embarrassing pursuit of Fabregas.

City surrounded Pep with Pep people but the point is if it didn't work out he would have been booted out just as they would do with the next guy. They gave Pep the tools to do the job, just as Moyes was allowed to bring in his own backroom team.

Liverpool have gone through a number of managers throughout the 90s and 2000s with various degrees of success and failure with absolutely no link from one tot he other. Rodgers was largely a failure so he was replaced. Klopp was given a couple of years to build a team and that team won so he stays. If Klopp walks away tomorrow or it all falls apart there is no succession plan. They will appoint whomever is high profile or they will appoint a "Club legend" like Gerrard.

The idea that what Chelsea do is "planning" is laughable. There is absolutely no link between any manager they have ever appointed and the one before or since.

Barca have lurched from one crisis to the next. I guarantee you there was no plan for Xavi to come in at this stage.

Planning doesn't mean guaranteed success btw. Planning means giving the best possible opportunity to success. That doesn't mean every plan comes off. Just cause a plan flops doesn't mean there was no plan in place.

This is the thing, because Liverpool are planning, Klopp isnt walking away tomorrow is he? In their plan he has a contract that they expect him to see out. Well how do you know that's who they will appoint?

There is a link between managers, its called trophies. Chelsea appoint managers based on their ability to work with the current squad and win trophies.

The Barca bit is not true at all, the current Barca president in his manifesto to becoming president said when he is president he will get Xavi as manager. That was always on the cards.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Planning doesn't mean guaranteed success btw. Planning means giving the best possible opportunity to success. That doesn't mean every plan comes off. Just cause a plan flops doesn't mean there was no plan in place.

This is the thing, because Liverpool are planning, Klopp isnt walking away tomorrow is he? In their plan he has a contract that they expect him to see out. Well how do you know that's who they will appoint?

There is a link between managers, its called trophies. Chelsea appoint managers based on their ability to work with the current squad and win trophies.

The Barca bit is not true at all, the current Barca president in his manifesto to becoming president said when he is president he will get Xavi as manager. That was always on the cards.

Klopp is in the job because he is successful. It wasn't some great innovate move to appoint Klopp. They had a manager in Rodgers who was failing. The sacked him and appointed Klopp. Klopp was successful. If he were not successful he would have been sacked just as we sacked Van Gaal and Liverpool would move on to the next man. Every single shred of evidence points to that.

The Chelsea "link" isnt a link at all. Its just a succession of random managers rom various backgrounds with various CVs.

Ancelotti, experienced manager who won - sacked. AVB , young manager who was flavour of the month appointed. Failed and sacked. Former player appointed as caretaker in Di Matteo, accidentally did well so club forced to appoint him. Failed so club sack him. Benitez appointed completely randomly much to the hatred of every Chelsea fan. Sees out the season and leaves. And so it goes on. When it works it looks fine, when it doesnt they look just as clueless as every other club. They have hit upon Tuchel right now so it looks good.

Barca are £1.2bn in debt, they have to punt half their team, they have lost their talisman and they have sacked their manager with no cash to bring in an elite level manager so of course they turn to their iconic player. Sure it may have been in the plans at some point in the future but if we are holing up this current Barca incarnation as an example of anything at all then the cheese really has slipped off the cracker!

 

[romufc]

Klopp is in the job because he is successful. It wasn't some great innovate move to appoint Klopp. They had a manager in Rodgers who was failing. The sacked him and appointed Klopp. Klopp was successful. If he were not successful he would have been sacked just as we sacked Van Gaal and Liverpool would move on to the next man. Every single shred of evidence points to that.

The Chelsea "link" isnt a link at all. Its just a succession of random managers rom various backgrounds with various CVs.

Ancelotti, experienced manager who won - sacked. AVB , young manager who was flavour of the month appointed. Failed and sacked. Former player appointed as caretaker in Di Matteo, accidentally did well so club forced to appoint him. Failed so club sack him. Benitez appointed completely randomly much to the hatred of every Chelsea fan. Sees out the season and leaves. And so it goes on. When it works it looks fine, when it doesnt they look just as clueless as every other club. They have hit upon Tuchel right now so it looks good.

Barca are £1.2bn in debt, they have to punt half their team, they have lost their talisman and they have sacked their manager with no cash to bring in an elite level manager so of course they turn to their iconic player. Sure it may have been in the plans at some point in the future but if we are holing up this current Barca incarnation as an example of anything at all then the cheese really has slipped off the cracker!

Well ofcourse if a manager is successful he stays if he isnt he is sacked. That is how it works.

Well the link is clear, be successful or get sacked. That is how those clubs operate, planned that way.

Manutd, a caretaker wins has a good spell and remains in charge 3 years later, Di Matteo got sacked within a year because they realised he isnt good enough, the managers they sack are replaced with ones that win silverware for the club.

Manutd, Ole appointed wins nothing, gets demolished by rivals, backed till end of the season. Put out stories to firefight and do feck all. That is how this club is run.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Klopp is in the job because he is successful. It wasn't some great innovate move to appoint Klopp. They had a manager in Rodgers who was failing. The sacked him and appointed Klopp. Klopp was successful. If he were not successful he would have been sacked just as we sacked Van Gaal and Liverpool would move on to the next man. Every single shred of evidence points to that.

The Chelsea "link" isnt a link at all. Its just a succession of random managers rom various backgrounds with various CVs.

Ancelotti, experienced manager who won - sacked. AVB , young manager who was flavour of the month appointed. Failed and sacked. Former player appointed as caretaker in Di Matteo, accidentally did well so club forced to appoint him. Failed so club sack him. Benitez appointed completely randomly much to the hatred of every Chelsea fan. Sees out the season and leaves. And so it goes on. When it works it looks fine, when it doesnt they look just as clueless as every other club. They have hit upon Tuchel right now so it looks good.

Barca are £1.2bn in debt, they have to punt half their team, they have lost their talisman and they have sacked their manager with no cash to bring in an elite level manager so of course they turn to their iconic player. Sure it may have been in the plans at some point in the future but if we are holing up this current Barca incarnation as an example of anything at all then the cheese really has slipped off the cracker!

The plan is simple, it seems. Do well = stay. Fail = sack. We cling on to our managers no matter what as we're seeing now.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Well ofcourse if a manager is successful he stays if he isnt he is sacked. That is how it works.

Well the link is clear, be successful or get sacked. That is how those clubs operate, planned that way.

Manutd, a caretaker wins has a good spell and remains in charge 3 years later, Di Matteo got sacked within a year because they realised he isnt good enough, the managers they sack are replaced with ones that win silverware for the club.

Manutd, Ole appointed wins nothing, gets demolished by rivals, backed till end of the season. Put out stories to firefight and do feck all. That is how this club is run.

Exactly. Thats what Im telling you. Its isnt some form of planning or big picture. Successful and you stay if you fail you are sacked. Thats ultimately how it works and is how it works for all the major clubs. Its how it worked for Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho and ultimately it will do for Ole too.

 

[romufc]

Its how it worked for Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho and ultimately it will do for Ole too.

Its been 3 years, Ole has been a failure. What success has Ole achieved? Finished top 4 that's all.

It worked for Moyes, was gone in a season. LVG won a FA cup and got sacked. Jose won Europa and League cup, got sacked.

It is not the same at Manchester United. Failure is rewarded at this club.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Its been 3 years, Ole has been a failure. What success has Ole achieved? Finished top 4 that's all.

It worked for Moyes, was gone in a season. LVG won a FA cup and got sacked. Jose won Europa and League cup, got sacked.

It is not the same at Manchester United. Failure is rewarded at this club.

You are contradicting yourself. You list three managers that we sacked. One in less than a year and two who won trophies and then claim "failure is rewarded"?

Ole has been a failure this season. We dont need to go over this again. He was appointed and year on year has improved to last season where we reached a European final and were second in the league. Not perfect by any means and not where we want to be but I think thats enough enough to remain in the job to have a crack at the title this season. I dont think its unreasonable. I think since then he has demonstrated enough to be fired but I disagree that he has failed for three years. he should be doing better this season with the quality he has and money spent and I think it will cost him his job and indeed if there was a stand out candidate out there that we could get now he may well be already gone.

 

[romufc]

You are contradicting yourself. You list three managers that we sacked. One in less than a year and two who won trophies and then claim "failure is rewarded"?

Ole has been a failure this season. We dont need to go over this again. He was appointed and year on year has improved to last season where we reached a European final and were second in the league. Not perfect by any means and not where we want to be but I think thats enough enough to remain in the job to have a crack at the title this season. I dont think its unreasonable. I think since then he has demonstrated enough to be fired but I disagree that he has failed for three years. he should be doing better this season with the quality he has and money spent and I think it will cost him his job and indeed if there was a stand out candidate out there that we could get now he may well be already gone.

Jose got the job, failed and got rewarded with a 3 year contract. Then got sacked because he lost the dressing room.

Improved what? the style of play? He still finished 10 plus points behind the title winners, he got dumped out the CL to Europa league, that is failure.

I am not just talking about the managers, look at the players who are on 200k plus wages whilst having done feck all for the club. Look at Jones, Henderson, Williams, the list is massive.

There was a standout candidate in Poch last season, we ignored it and now all of a sudden "Manutd admire Poch".

I see no difference in the football we play now to when Jose was in charge, the results are worse as well. We are similar points to the season Jose got sacked.

3 years on, no improvement.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Jose got the job, failed and got rewarded with a 3 year contract. Then got sacked because he lost the dressing room.

Improved what? the style of play? He still finished 10 plus points behind the title winners, he got dumped out the CL to Europa league, that is failure.

I am not just talking about the managers, look at the players who are on 200k plus wages whilst having done feck all for the club. Look at Jones, Henderson, Williams, the list is massive.

There was a standout candidate in Poch last season, we ignored it and now all of a sudden "Manutd admire Poch".

I see no difference in the football we play now to when Jose was in charge, the results are worse as well. We are similar points to the season Jose got sacked.

3 years on, no improvement.

Poch who failed at Spurs and was sacked? "Stand out candidate"?

Rewarding failure?

 

[romufc]

Poch who failed at Spurs and was sacked? "Stand out candidate"?

Rewarding failure?

The fact that you are saying he failed at Spurs shows how well he done.

Spurs dont win trophies, with him in charge it was consistent top 4, CL final and PL challenge. Look what happened post Poch, battling top 4.

Poch is going to win the French league and are favourites to win the CL too.

 

[bosnian_red]

The fact that you are saying he failed at Spurs shows how well he done.

Spurs dont win trophies, with him in charge it was consistent top 4, CL final and PL challenge. Look what happened post Poch, battling top 4.

Poch is going to win the French league and are favourites to win the CL too.

Psg aren't favourites for the CL at all. And you seem to be ignoring his time at Spurs post 2016/17. OK he turned them into a steady top 4 team. And then couldn't progress past that at all, in fact only declined from there. Their CL final appearance was a complete fluke, they were garbage all season in the league and they had some lucky turn arounds in the CL before they were swatted away without laying a glove on Liverpool.

Pochettino did well until 2016/17. Since that time, everything he's shown are the exact reasons why I don't want him. Loads of managers can get a team playing OK football and can have a good team as a steady top 4 side/competitor. There aren't many capable of actually making the step up, and Pochettino has shown he can't do it. At PSG, when he gets outclassed in the latter stages of the CL again despite his squad, it'll be further proof of this.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

The fact that you are saying he failed at Spurs shows how well he done.

Spurs dont win trophies, with him in charge it was consistent top 4, CL final and PL challenge. Look what happened post Poch, battling top 4.

Poch is going to win the French league and are favourites to win the CL too.

He was sacked by Spurs, a large part of the fanbase we sick of his tactics, his lack of a plan B and his transfer dealings. Managing PSG to the French title is hardly a sign of elite level management in their circumstances. PSG aren't favourites for anything because of the man in the dugout.

My point is Poch could well come in and be a success for United and maybe he would have 3 years ago or a year ago. But its VERY subjective. Its not close to a guarantee or nailed on. His isnt an "outstanding candidate" . A year of no success and the narrative "why did we appoint this man who has won nothing" writes itself.

 

[romufc]

Psg aren't favourites for the CL at all. And you seem to be ignoring his time at Spurs post 2016/17. OK he turned them into a steady top 4 team. And then couldn't progress past that at all, in fact only declined from there. Their CL final appearance was a complete fluke, they were garbage all season in the league and they had some lucky turn arounds in the CL before they were swatted away without laying a glove on Liverpool.

Pochettino did well until 2016/17. Since that time, everything he's shown are the exact reasons why I don't want him. Loads of managers can get a team playing OK football and can have a good team as a steady top 4 side/competitor. There aren't many capable of actually making the step up, and Pochettino has shown he can't do it. At PSG, when he gets outclassed in the latter stages of the CL again despite his squad, it'll be further proof of this.

https://m.skybet.com/football/champions-league/event/27691417


They are in the top 3 of favourites to win the CL. Couldn't progress to what? winning the league? Just getting Spurs in the conversation is a brilliant achievement on its own.

Thats the same as us last season, that was a fluke season we finished 2nd, garbage all season and lucky turnarounds in away games before getting beat in the final by Villareal.

Name me another manager that has got a team that doesnt get top 4 into the top 4 regularly and competing for the title?

 

[Zen86]

The fact that you are saying he failed at Spurs shows how well he done.

Spurs dont win trophies, with him in charge it was consistent top 4, CL final and PL challenge. Look what happened post Poch, battling top 4.

Poch is going to win the French league and are favourites to win the CL too.

Man United don't win trophies either, so Poch would be a good candidate to keep that tradition going.

 

[bosnian_red]

https://m.skybet.com/football/champions-league/event/27691417


They are in the top 3 of favourites to win the CL. Couldn't progress to what? winning the league? Just getting Spurs in the conversation is a brilliant achievement on its own.

Thats the same as us last season, that was a fluke season we finished 2nd, garbage all season and lucky turnarounds in away games before getting beat in the final by Villareal.

Name me another manager that has got a team that doesnt get top 4 into the top 4 regularly and competing for the title?

Couldn't progress to remaining a title challenger or even a steady top 4 side? They declined. They were 14th when he got sacked. 18/19 they were 5th on xG but barely snuck on 4th on actual points, the CL final masked what was a bad season from them. Constant failure in every cup competition. Don't give me this bullshit about how it's Spurs and they don't win. Leicester won the league, FA Cup and Community Shield in the past 5-6 years. Like I said, he did well to turn them into a steady top 4 team. And then declined hard. Couldn't meet raising expectations. Couldn't do the next step and get them to ever actually compete for the title, or get them over the line and win any trophy. He then went to PSG, failed to win the league for the first time in forever for them, and got swatted aside with ease by Man City (after fluking past Bayern who were missing Lewandowski and so missed chance after chance.. just look at the xG from those 2 games).

He showed he's a decent manager... and then showed that's his limit. He's shown nothing to suggest that he actually has it in him to make the step up from a Spurs level of fighting for top 4 to actually being a top side. Like I said. Plenty of managers can do the former (Ole included, which inevitably ends up wearing away because of a failure to step up like it did with Poch), what United needs is someone who can actually make the last step. And people mention his style of play... Pochettino's teams never played that good football. They pressed well in big games as the underdog sure, but it's not like they were a free flowing attacking side constantly, or anything remotely close to a Pep or Klopp style. Besides, the way he had Spurs pressing as the underdog I don't think would actually translate well to our squad at all.

In terms of betting favourites... meh. That's just because they brought in Messi and nothing to do with how the team actually plays. 538 soccer has a much better team ranking/SPI that puts PSG as the 11th best performing club in Europe. 11th.

Bayern, City, Liverpool and Chelsea are easily the top 4 sides in Europe right now and are rated as such. That'll show in the latter stages of the season when it matters IMO.

 

[Bebestation]

I know it's unlikely but you never really know - if Conte somehow wins the title with Spurs (I only say this because of him being a winner rather than the club being one); then maybe at that point I'd skip Pochettino as a manager

 

[croadyman]

Even if we beat Watford by 10 goals, nobody, not even his most ardent supporters, are going to claim its turned a corner.

I still think he's the better option than any available right now. But it's going to take a string of results for him to get any breathing room.


A draw away at Villareal and Chelsea would be a decent result, but other than that we should be winning pretty much every game from now through February.
We won't of course, a team can rarely be that consistent, but it shouldn't be far from it.

Better option right now are you actually kidding me?

 

[lex talionis]

Well if he sees out the season guess it will be next summer when I feel anything for this teams results again, better get out the sleeping bag for the next six months or so then I reckon

Yep, the sleeping bag will get lots of use this season. We’ll probably grind out enough results in the league to remain the favorite for fourth place, but we’ll be miles off the top three.

I’m sure someone else has made this point, but with the unraveling of our prospects this season will also come the dismantling of the squad in the summer, unless we actually do bring in a top manager quickly when the season ends.

 

[romufc]

Couldn't progress to remaining a title challenger or even a steady top 4 side? They declined. They were 14th when he got sacked. 18/19 they were 5th on xG but barely snuck on 4th on actual points, the CL final masked what was a bad season from them. Constant failure in every cup competition. Don't give me this bullshit about how it's Spurs and they don't win. Leicester won the league, FA Cup and Community Shield in the past 5-6 years. Like I said, he did well to turn them into a steady top 4 team. And then declined hard. Couldn't meet raising expectations. Couldn't do the next step and get them to ever actually compete for the title, or get them over the line and win any trophy. He then went to PSG, failed to win the league for the first time in forever for them, and got swatted aside with ease by Man City (after fluking past Bayern who were missing Lewandowski and so missed chance after chance.. just look at the xG from those 2 games).

He showed he's a decent manager... and then showed that's his limit. He's shown nothing to suggest that he actually has it in him to make the step up from a Spurs level of fighting for top 4 to actually being a top side. Like I said. Plenty of managers can do the former (Ole included, which inevitably ends up wearing away because of a failure to step up like it did with Poch), what United needs is someone who can actually make the last step. And people mention his style of play... Pochettino's teams never played that good football. They pressed well in big games as the underdog sure, but it's not like they were a free flowing attacking side constantly, or anything remotely close to a Pep or Klopp style. Besides, the way he had Spurs pressing as the underdog I don't think would actually translate well to our squad at all.

In terms of betting favourites... meh. That's just because they brought in Messi and nothing to do with how the team actually plays. 538 soccer has a much better team ranking/SPI that puts PSG as the 11th best performing club in Europe. 11th.

Bayern, City, Liverpool and Chelsea are easily the top 4 sides in Europe right now and are rated as such. That'll show in the latter stages of the season when it matters IMO.

I totally get what you are saying. I am just saying he should deserve credit for what he did at Spurs, look at them post Poch as well.

Well, we bought in Ronaldo and we are not anywhere near the favourites?

On those two, I do not think there is a manager close to those levels, I think Poch is the tier below with Tuchel, Conte, and the like.

I do not think he is guaranteed success. I am more referring to how this club sees things, they admire him, well then why didn;t they move for him when he was available. Why come out with crap when he has a job saying we admire him and cant get him right now.

I don't have rose tinted glasses to think that Poch is the answer to winning us the title or CL, he does have to show that he can get good teams playing elite level.

That said, we can't sit around waiting for a manager whilst Ole is spitting out dross performances and results.

 

[romufc]

Man United don't win trophies either, so Poch would be a good candidate to keep that tradition going.

Clearly, you have 0 idea of United. No point even engaging in a conversation with you.

 

[croadyman]

Yep, the sleeping bag will get lots of use this season. We’ll probably grind out enough results in the league to remain the favorite for fourth place, but we’ll be miles off the top three.

I’m sure someone else has made this point, but with the unraveling of our prospects this season will also come the dismantling of the squad in the summer, unless we actually do bring in a top manager quickly when the season ends.

Yeah something that seems to get lost with the top reds and his cult fanbase is just how many top players will eventually get sick of his incompetence

 

[Idxomer]

You are contradicting yourself. You list three managers that we sacked. One in less than a year and two who won trophies and then claim "failure is rewarded"?

Ole has been a failure this season. We dont need to go over this again. He was appointed and year on year has improved to last season where we reached a European final and were second in the league. Not perfect by any means and not where we want to be but I think thats enough enough to remain in the job to have a crack at the title this season. I dont think its unreasonable. I think since then he has demonstrated enough to be fired but I disagree that he has failed for three years. he should be doing better this season with the quality he has and money spent and I think it will cost him his job and indeed if there was a stand out candidate out there that we could get now he may well be already gone.

Isn't it time to look beyond results that are barely good enough for a club that spends on transfers and wages as much as United?

Our football last season didn't improve at all from before and didn't look to be evolving towards a style that would help the team sustain a title challenge. It's the same thing that happened with Jose, we played better football in his 1st season and despite getting 12 points more in his 2nd one, it was obvious we regressed but people kept pointing to irrelevant stuff about getting more points than the treble season.

Btw after messing up the CL group in the fashion Ole did, winning the EL was the bare minimum and he failed. Reaching the final should never be mentioned as an evidence of our improvement. I mean Sarri got 3rd with Chelsea and won the EL by beating their direct rivals and in a couple of years very few will remember he managed there.

 

[Zen86]

Clearly, you have 0 idea of United. No point even engaging in a conversation with you.

I’m certainly struggling to see how a man who’s never won a trophy is the one to bring silverware back to Manchester United. Unless of course you’re referring to the Top 4 trophy, in which case we really have become Arsenal.

Care to enlighten me?

 

[romufc]

I’m certainly struggling to see how a man who’s never won a trophy is the one to bring silverware back to Manchester United. Unless of course you’re referring to the Top 4 trophy, in which case we really have become Arsenal.

Care to enlighten me?

1. Pochettino has won a trophy last season
2. He will most likely win the French league title this season.

Enlightened?

Now, can you enlighten me on how being the 2nd most decorated club in England is tradition of winning nothing?

Or how giving Ole more time will win us titles? Just because he played for us and is a legend?

 

[Desert Eagle]

I’m certainly struggling to see how a man who’s never won a trophy is the one to bring silverware back to Manchester United. Unless of course you’re referring to the Top 4 trophy, in which case we really have become Arsenal.

Care to enlighten me?

Where was he managing where he should have won trophies? He will win the league in France this year as expected. Mourinho has the most trophies out of anyone besides Pep does that make him the second best manager currently?
If you don't think Poch is the right guy fair enough but the no trophy argument is basic and lame.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

Isn't it time to look beyond results that are barely good enough for a club that spends on transfers and wages as much as United?

Our football last season didn't improve at all from before and didn't look to be evolving towards a style that would help the team sustain a title challenge. It's the same thing that happened with Jose, we played better football in his 1st season and despite getting 12 points more in his 2nd one, it was obvious we regressed but people kept pointing to irrelevant stuff about getting more points than the treble season.

Btw after messing up the CL group in the fashion Ole did, winning the EL was the bare minimum and he failed. Reaching the final should never be mentioned as an evidence of our improvement. I mean Sarri got 3rd with Chelsea and won the EL by beating their direct rivals and in a couple of years very few will remember he managed there.

Sure we should have been doing better but you have to piss with the cock you're given.

Ole was in post and like it or not he improved from he situation when Jose left. Year on year improvement in league finish and last season regardless of circumstance he was 2nd and we DID reach the Europa League final. Had De Gea scored and he had lifted the trophy would he have suddenly become a better manager? I dont think so. I dont think it would change much in the context of this season.

My point isnt me saying Ole is suddenly a great manager and needs to stay, Im saying that I dont think giving him the opportunity of being in post this season is the mad crazy "acceptance of failure" that the person I was replying to was suggesting. Ultimately history wont view him as a success but I think he had the right to fail this year. Maybe in a few years no one will remember much about Ole being in charge if we go on to be successful under someone else but thats not what I was addressing.

If we had moved on up and been at the top right now it would continue to look like an incremental improvement and upward curve and we would be happy. He would be justifiably remaining in the job. It hasn't panned out like that so he can justifiably be removed from the job.

 

[largelyworried]

Sure we should have been doing better but you have to piss with the cock you're given.

Ole was in post and like it or not he improved from he situation when Jose left. Year on year improvement in league finish and last season regardless of circumstance he was 2nd and we DID reach the Europa League final. Had De Gea scored and he had lifted the trophy would he have suddenly become a better manager? I dont think so. I dont think it would change much in the context of this season.

My point isnt me saying Ole is suddenly a great manager and needs to stay, Im saying that I dont think giving him the opportunity of being in post this season is the mad crazy "acceptance of failure" that the person I was replying to was suggesting. Ultimately history wont view him as a success but I think he had the right to fail this year. Maybe in a few years no one will remember much about Ole being in charge if we go on to be successful under someone else but thats not what I was addressing.

If we had moved on up and been at the top right now it would continue to look like an incremental improvement and upward curve and we would be happy. He would be justifiably remaining in the job. It hasn't panned out like that so he can justifiably be removed from the job.

The trouble with this argument is that the flaws that undermined us this season were completely on display last season. This isn't like an impervious defence suddenly becoming leaky or a flood of goals suddenly running dry. The team has lacked many of the fundamentals that the best teams have throughout Ole's time and we showed no signs of progress by the end of last season. So while the degree of this season's meltdown may be a surprise, the fact that we're struggling at all is surely a surprise to no one?

 

[Zen86]

Where was he managing where he should have won trophies? He will win the league in France this year as expected. Mourinho has the most trophies out of anyone besides Pep does that make him the second best manager currently?
If you don't think Poch is the right guy fair enough but the no trophy argument is basic and lame.

The no trophy argument is pretty important when people position Poch as the man to win trophies at Manchester United. Plenty of clubs smaller than Spurs have managed to win one. Winning the league with PSG at the second time of asking will be a start, but hardly impressive. He’s a decent manager but pretty low on the list of ideal candidates. The obsession with him is bizarre.

 

[Zaphod2319]

As a Chelsea fan, I almost feel sorry for you Utd fans and at the same time want Ole to be appointed for life. It is a strange combination of emotion.

 

[HailtotheKing]

You are contradicting yourself. You list three managers that we sacked. One in less than a year and two who won trophies and then claim "failure is rewarded"?

Ole has been a failure this season. We dont need to go over this again. He was appointed and year on year has improved to last season where we reached a European final and were second in the league. Not perfect by any means and not where we want to be but I think thats enough enough to remain in the job to have a crack at the title this season. I dont think its unreasonable. I think since then he has demonstrated enough to be fired but I disagree that he has failed for three years. he should be doing better this season with the quality he has and money spent and I think it will cost him his job and indeed if there was a stand out candidate out there that we could get now he may well be already gone.

I love how we talk about this European final as though it were some achievement. When in reality, the only reason we got to that final was because we failed at the bigger European competition, the thing that actually should've determined success or not. That's like getting relegated from the Premier League but ending runner-up in the Championship. Madness. And he actively failed in that final too. And apparently learned nothing from it. Can't go soon enough for me much as he's still a legend. Just want an end to this averageness. I'm not expecting us to win everything. I am expecting us to play good football and challenge. Especially with the squad we have. But the bare minimum is good football. Ole's biggest achievement is playing that bad with this level of quality. Don't think anyone could achieve that.

 

[Amir]

The no trophy argument is pretty important when people position Poch as the man to win trophies at Manchester United. Plenty of clubs smaller than Spurs have managed to win one.

Rodgers it is then!

 

[Seij]

What success has Ole achieved?

Vibes and United DNA. True fans know that those two are the most important priorities of the club.

He gets so much credit for "restoring the locker room mood" or whatever after Jose, but the fact is that Jose in his season was throwing a tantrum and burnt bridges in the locker room to a point that just him being gone likely restored most of the morale, whether it was Ole or my nan taking over.

 

[2 man midfield]

Vibes and United DNA. True fans know that those two are the most important priorities of the club.

He gets so much credit for "restoring the locker room mood" or whatever after Jose, but the fact is that Jose in his season was throwing a tantrum and burnt bridges in the locker room to a point that just him being gone likely restored most of the morale, whether it was Ole or my nan taking over.

Which is what Paul Ince said at the time, and got shouted down for.

 

[Waynne]

As a Chelsea fan, I almost feel sorry for you Utd fans and at the same time want Ole to be appointed for life. It is a strange combination of emotion.

I tend to just laugh with those mocking the club because as a United fan the absolute state of this club has made me numb to opposition fans constant piss taking.
It really doesn't bother me anymore. That's how much we have fallen as a dominant force in world football and I'm not so optimistic about the next decade or beyond until this club gets new owners.
This decade long rot starts at the very top.

 

[lex talionis]

As long as Ole remains manager my only hope is that we no longer embarrass ourselves on the pitch. Any hope of a major trophy or playing consistently decent football is pure fantasy.

 

[Foxbatt]

As long as Ole remains manager my only hope is that we no longer embarrass ourselves on the pitch. Any hope of a major trophy or playing consistently decent football is pure fantasy.

We are going to embarrass ourselves on the pitch in some games. We will have good results against top teams too but I don't think we will win either the PL or CL under him. Greenwood is not suddenly going to be RVP under Ole. Neither is Rashford going to be a Giggs. As for Fred and McTominay becoming Keane and Scholes? I must have drunk some of that cool aid.

 

[passtheball]

As a Chelsea fan, I almost feel sorry for you Utd fans and at the same time want Ole to be appointed for life. It is a strange combination of emotion.

I used to think that Chelsea's hiring and firing of managers was ridiculous, but I realise now that that was very complacent on my part as a United fan. We had a genius manager in Ferguson who papered over enormous cracks at the club.

Now, I think that Chelsea are a well run club with a ruthless winning mentality from the owner down. I am jealous.

 

[Amir]

He gets so much credit for "restoring the locker room mood" or whatever after Jose, but the fact is that Jose in his season was throwing a tantrum and burnt bridges in the locker room to a point that just him being gone likely restored most of the morale, whether it was Ole or my nan taking over.

Yeah, people kind of forget that having decent morale in a squad is pretty much the norm. Mourinho's ability to poison it is the unusual.

We were probably - and still are - a club and a fan base in trauma.

 

[Lam]

He would have left if he really loved the club.

 

[9 Stone Elvis]

I love how we talk about this European final as though it were some achievement. When in reality, the only reason we got to that final was because we failed at the bigger European competition, the thing that actually should've determined success or not. That's like getting relegated from the Premier League but ending runner-up in the Championship. Madness. And he actively failed in that final too. And apparently learned nothing from it. Can't go soon enough for me much as he's still a legend. Just want an end to this averageness. I'm not expecting us to win everything. I am expecting us to play good football and challenge. Especially with the squad we have. But the bare minimum is good football. Ole's biggest achievement is playing that bad with this level of quality. Don't think anyone could achieve that.

You are missing the point of what Im saying. Im not saying 'didn't we do well?" Im saying there was in incremental improvement because getting to a European final and finishing second in the Leagues IS better than not getting to a European final and finishing 3rd or 4th. Thats just a fact and Im saying based on that improvement I was ok with him being allowed to remain in post for this season. I dont see that as "rewarding failure" I think its giving the man in post a fair crack of the whip. If it had gone the other way and we had cracked on this season with further improvement with a improved tactical approach and a title challenge it would have been a good move. He hasn't so I agree he should go.

Lets also not forget and I firmly believe this. Had we sacked Ole in the Summer as many have said, and the new man had come in and not hit the ground running a large percentage of the fan base would have absolutely hammered the club for removing Ole when he *may* have kicked on this season and in the traditional "path not taken" mind of the football supporter we would all have assumed the improvement.