fecking hell, @bleedred is smashing everyone.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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People can change their minds tbf
Though I won't deny it is funny
Though I won't deny it is funny
If you're bothered to go through my posts you'll see that I've never been into the appointment - I changed my mind after the PSG and tried to get on board, but I believe that was a false dawn.
People can change their minds - and besides, I've been against the appointment for basically the entirety of his reign, go through my posts before that and quote them if you wanna show the whole picture.
@bleedred savage
This. Klopp also had much more experience at that level as well as was allowed to sign players unlike OGS.
At least OGS didn’t celebrate a 2-2 home draw with Burnley in the manner that Klopp did when Liverpool drew 2-2 with West Brom at Anfield.
Plus we’re going to finish with more points than they did in that season. Funnily enough we currently have the same goal difference as what they finished that season with (+13).
"I have never been into the appointment", followed by "I changed my mind after PSG"?
Also FFS @bleedred
Exactly. No-one can know for sure whether or not Ole will be a success at this club. It's simply too early. He needs time to implement his ideas and bring in some of his own players and he should at least get that opportunity. The people calling for him to be sacked will call for the next manager to be sacked if they get their wish.
What’s the big deal with people changing their minds about something? Surely that’s normal, rather than having an opinion and sticking by it?
I was one of the biggest pro Mourinho posters during his first season because I really liked him as a manager, and now I hate him. Thoughts and opinions change over time. It’s not that weird
I was one of the biggest pro Mourinho posters during his first season because I really liked him as a manager, and now I hate him. Thoughts and opinions change over time. It’s not that weird
"I have never been into the appointment", followed by "I changed my mind after PSG"?
Also FFS @bleedred
"I tried to get on board" - I enjoyed the result, and the match, and I thought at that point that I'd been wrong.
I quickly realized that I wasn't.
If you're gonna hold me to what I've said then go with the landslide majority of what I've said before that, and after it, search me in this thread, quote my messages, the consistency will be there to be seen. Even in that quoted message it acknowledges that I was previously (correctly) cynical.
I started off against the appointment, I warned against it repeatedly. I then was blown away the 2nd PSG result and also the 2 dig-deep PL wins before it, but quickly the giddiness settled and I stand by my original opinion.
If he sorts it out next season, and plays good football, then I'll again hold my hands up.
Who knows, though, maybe it'll the likes of you and @bleedred who are changing your opinions in the future...
I’m still on the OGS train. Although I still think the most important aspect of this past 4-5 months has been what happens between the board and the first team, that being a DoF strtcure being implemented so we can move out of this approach of trying to squeeze square peg managers into the metaphorical round hole of Sir Alex.
If we set it up then hopefully OGS and the people who come after him will have a chance of making it work better than those who have come before.
Hypothetically, have those DoF figures like Phelan, Fletch and Rio decide on how we should play, then on that identify players who can fit that play and identify managers who can employ that play. That way then we’re not looking and hoping that the new Sir Alex turns up, it can be just a manager who’s good at coaching, man managing and/or tactics but isn’t great at transfers... so the DoF structure can make up for that because they’re hopefully good judges of players.
If we set it up then hopefully OGS and the people who come after him will have a chance of making it work better than those who have come before.
Hypothetically, have those DoF figures like Phelan, Fletch and Rio decide on how we should play, then on that identify players who can fit that play and identify managers who can employ that play. That way then we’re not looking and hoping that the new Sir Alex turns up, it can be just a manager who’s good at coaching, man managing and/or tactics but isn’t great at transfers... so the DoF structure can make up for that because they’re hopefully good judges of players.
Let’s at least wait until this summer’s shenanigans are complete and we play 15-20 games next season. When did patience get struck off the virtue list?!
I just think it's ludicrous having literally no-one in any position that they've excelled in before...
Ole - average manager at best, Cardiff, Molde pedigree
Phelan - Aussie DoF, failing team
Rio - never done job before
Fletcher - never done job before
Scholes (being mentioned) - never done job before
Woodward - failed CEO, 6 years of dross, 6 years of wasting money...
Surely with the wealth that Man Utd hold, this should be somewhere where you go to earn the big money after you've proven your worth it...?
Isn't that how it works? Aren't the Glazers avid capitalists?
It just seems weird, suspicious even, how keen they are to throw their money away on literally an entire cast of people who've genuinely never been successful in any of the roles they're being given (if these appoints are true).
Imagine if such a philosophy was applied on the pitch...
A bunch of players who've done utterly nothing to earn the biggest and most important contracts in English footy, being given first team places at the countries most famous and richest income club...
Oh, wait... yeah, that's right, that's we've been watching.
Manchester United when Ole joined us: Sixth place - only three points up from eleventh and a goal difference of zero (!!!). We were also eight points behind Arsenal in fifth and a total of eleven points behind Chelsea who occupied fourth. We were - no point arguing around this - a solidified mid-table team and to be honest we looked closer to dropping down into the bottom half than moving back up.
Manchester United as of now: Still sixth place sure - but only three points separating us from fourth placed Chelsea - five from Tottenham in third. Also we have a positive goal difference of thirteen and are eleven points ahead of seventh place - meaning we're once more an established top-six contender. And this is our current position with still two matches to go mind - so if we win those we'll end on 71 points which which - whether it's sufficient for getting into Champions League or not - still makes this our third best season Post-Ferguson. Considering where we were - that's quite a turnaround far more than anyone I spoke with back then would deem possible. Also only City and Liverpool has a better track record than us since he took the reins - so in short during his tenure so far we've gone from being a mid-table team with few prospects except maybe falling even deeper into misery to establishing ourselves near the top and playing on equal terms with those positioned closest to us (Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea). And we've looked better in some of the games we've lost even - than we ever did during the first half of this season.
But yeah he's useless we're a far worse side now than we were (short-term memory and a selective one at that) and also he's so inexperienced (even though he's proven himself every bit as successful during his career as most of the managers people here are coveting did before they got their first top job) - so let's toss him aside. After all -within four months from taking over a team moving towards the bottom-half of the league he didn't manage to turn it into Champions League finalist (imagine Barcelona being too big a task for us shocker right?) nor a stable top-four side (while having to deal with a huge amount of injuries and also being forced to improvise with the squad he inherited!) - so obviously he's clueless and hiring him was the worst idea ever!
Seriously - are you guys even human? If so we might need to reconsider the "Sapiens" part because frankly too many people are not displaying any signs of it whatsoever. I'm pretty sure they don't even understand the meaning of the word
Manchester United as of now: Still sixth place sure - but only three points separating us from fourth placed Chelsea - five from Tottenham in third. Also we have a positive goal difference of thirteen and are eleven points ahead of seventh place - meaning we're once more an established top-six contender. And this is our current position with still two matches to go mind - so if we win those we'll end on 71 points which which - whether it's sufficient for getting into Champions League or not - still makes this our third best season Post-Ferguson. Considering where we were - that's quite a turnaround far more than anyone I spoke with back then would deem possible. Also only City and Liverpool has a better track record than us since he took the reins - so in short during his tenure so far we've gone from being a mid-table team with few prospects except maybe falling even deeper into misery to establishing ourselves near the top and playing on equal terms with those positioned closest to us (Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea). And we've looked better in some of the games we've lost even - than we ever did during the first half of this season.
But yeah he's useless we're a far worse side now than we were (short-term memory and a selective one at that) and also he's so inexperienced (even though he's proven himself every bit as successful during his career as most of the managers people here are coveting did before they got their first top job) - so let's toss him aside. After all -within four months from taking over a team moving towards the bottom-half of the league he didn't manage to turn it into Champions League finalist (imagine Barcelona being too big a task for us shocker right?) nor a stable top-four side (while having to deal with a huge amount of injuries and also being forced to improvise with the squad he inherited!) - so obviously he's clueless and hiring him was the worst idea ever!
Seriously - are you guys even human? If so we might need to reconsider the "Sapiens" part because frankly too many people are not displaying any signs of it whatsoever. I'm pretty sure they don't even understand the meaning of the word
What’s the big deal with people changing their minds about something? Surely that’s normal, rather than having an opinion and sticking by it?
I was one of the biggest pro Mourinho posters during his first season because I really liked him as a manager, and now I hate him. Thoughts and opinions change over time. It’s not that weird
Its normal changing your opinion over a period of time. But 1 month is too short to be just juggling around.
Rummaging through these old posts have shown me one thing, Fans' opinion has been so similar to matchday threads,no context and absolutely kneejerk.
Imagine if the board were like that,we would have a manager every month! Hey, atleast we will be ruthless as many wish us to be!
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So you changed your mind about changing your mind within a span of three months and now you think its final!!!!
People can change their minds tbf
Though I won't deny it is funny
The problem is there doesn't seem to be a middle ground or they take time to make an opinion. Either he is dogshite or the next thing to sliced bread.
Maybe this sounds like a cop out. But honestly, i'm done with this. Football and Manchester United have been a huge part of my life for over 20 years
But lately, it has brought me into a state of hopelessness and despair. Why should I destroy my health and sanity when clearly the players and the board don't care..why should I spoil my weekends when everyone is resigned to their fate and unwilling to fight?
I don't mind losing...as long as the players and the board are trying their best to change things. Thats definitely not the case. An overhaul is needed
But lately, it has brought me into a state of hopelessness and despair. Why should I destroy my health and sanity when clearly the players and the board don't care..why should I spoil my weekends when everyone is resigned to their fate and unwilling to fight?
I don't mind losing...as long as the players and the board are trying their best to change things. Thats definitely not the case. An overhaul is needed
People can change their mind but without looking like bellends.
I've been incredibly cynical of Ole's appointment from the get go - famously so. To the point where I get accused of having been too negative toward him by other Utd fans for his entire reign.
My post history will completely back that up - as you know when you've taken the time out of your life to go through it.
The PSG result was a sugar rush moment for everyone - but the games building up to it were also great results, and I'm a Utd fan, I'd challenge any fan to be posting after that game anything other than superlatives.
Again I don’t see the point of these comparisons.
The same with Pep comparisons in his first season at City.
Klopp proved before he came to Liverpool that he could build a successful team which he did at Dortmund. Oles done nothing like that.
So I don’t see why we need to compare the two.
Hats off to bleedred for showing us what many of those who 'oppose' Ole are; kneejerkers who need immediate gratification.
It doesn't matter who we'd have picked to take over from Jose, the rebuild will be a huge task and many will flip flop over our managerial choice given the inconsistency of our squad.
It doesn't matter who we'd have picked to take over from Jose, the rebuild will be a huge task and many will flip flop over our managerial choice given the inconsistency of our squad.
Great results with our reserves and then his Molde team won the Norwegian League twice and also secured a domestic cup. He then left and came back after a really bad stay at Cardiff - only to rebuild Molde into the squad that's currently first place (with an eleven point gap even) - having once more dislodged Rosenborg (the team that's dominated the league for three decades and are leagues ahead in terms of renown and resources) from their throne even beating them 3-0 just a few days back. Oh and his side also did well in Europa League against much greater opponents prior to him joining us - so there's that too. Also all his successes were separate which disproves any notion anyone might have that they were flukes. He's got better credentials for sure than Klopp did when landing the Dortmund job - at that point all he'd achieved was gaining a promotion by finishing third only to get relegated again a couple of season later and then fail to get back up. Oh and even his Dortmund collapsed during his last season there - finishing seventh before he resigned.
Our reserves and the Norwegian league might not be the pinnacle of football no way would I argue that - but what he's achieved both places during three different reigns is definitely worth more respect than you guys are willing to grant him. Other managers - managers people here are coveting even (such as your beloved Klopp but also Guardiola) - had far less to show for when they landed their first big jobs. He's at least shown he can consistently turn pebbles into bronze - and so far he's also managed turning bronze into silver with our squad (remember where we were when he joined contra where we're at now) - so you guys are way off target presenting him as some novice.
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Exactly.
People can change their minds but the ones claiming they never wanted him are hilariousPeople can change their minds tbf
Though I won't deny it is funny
“People can change their minds”
@bleedred made absolute fools of some of you. He’s literally highlighted how nonsense some of your views are and just influenced by the last few games. I’d delete your accounts and start again thinking over how you do this football malarkey.
@bleedred made absolute fools of some of you. He’s literally highlighted how nonsense some of your views are and just influenced by the last few games. I’d delete your accounts and start again thinking over how you do this football malarkey.
Skimmed through my history and I've been this whinny. Always voiced my concern about Ole's early appointment, mostly against the board though.
Take that @bleedred
Take that @bleedred
I wouldn't want to work with @bleedred as my coworker, You just know He's going to expose us all when We browse redcafe for RAWK gifs at work.
Slow it down bleedred, they have families!
I've seen that regardless of results in the next two weeks Solskjaer is third in terms of points since he came. +7 points to Arsenal at the moment, and +8 to Tottenham and Chelsea. Scored more than all of them, only Spurs conceded less.
http://solskjaertabellen.com/
It's curious how much emphasis has been put in the negative recent run, ignoring injuries, fitness levels or contract distractions, and how easily the bigger picture is being forgotten including wins against Arsenal, Chelsea and PSG away in cups / CL.
With these results on the table and showing from the start that he wanted to make us a pressing team, dynamic and with attacking intent (until the injuries came and he changed the approach) there's still people saying that he's been hired and supported based on emotionality and because he's a legend, or "knows the club" shit. The levels of stupidity here are comical at times as we saw in the last page.
We should take also into account that nowadays positive managers tend to deal better with the 'modern footballer' than old school sergeants like LVG, or Mourinho who only seem to tolerate disciplined workhorses and some personal friends. So I'll leave for once the CV crap on a second plane and I'd focus more on attributes and conditions. Barcelona didn't care much for example about signing some unknown argentinian guy who only managed in Paraguay, or a trophyless Luis Enrique who did nothing impressive with Roma or Celta, and won the treble in the first season. Valverde only won trophies with Olympiakos and they're close to a treble again.
The obvious difference between Barcelona and us is they have a clear identity and the power relies on the club structures. We have an obsolete model that consist in giving all the power to each manager to decide what kind of team we are during his tenure, just to change everything again after a pair of seasons if they haven't done miracles by themselves. In the end we have a permanent team in transition with a squad lacking any homogeneity. A loss of money and time.
This is why the key at the moment should be to develop a proper identity at the club, draw a clear line to follow and keep building in that direction in the future even when we part ways with Ole, instead of trying to sign the more famous manager without considering his approach. If those being rumoured (Rio, Fletcher, even Phelan) are good enough to create that football culture at the club, I don't know. But at least it's a step forward compared to hiring an outdated dinosaur like Mourinho to bring immediate results, and then deny his demands because they are old and expensive. A total mess from the concept itself to the execution.
I think it's reasonable to have doubts about everything at the club at this moment, but I feel we are finally advancing something. If those at the club and whoever we bring in the end put the first stone to become an aggressive, attacking team in the long term for me they will have done more than we did in the last 6 years. This is why I think we need some patience to let this people build his team and instill their ideas and values, instead of waiting for the next game to decide if this week Solskjaer is Ferguson or David Moyes.
I've seen that regardless of results in the next two weeks Solskjaer is third in terms of points since he came. +7 points to Arsenal at the moment, and +8 to Tottenham and Chelsea. Scored more than all of them, only Spurs conceded less.
http://solskjaertabellen.com/
It's curious how much emphasis has been put in the negative recent run, ignoring injuries, fitness levels or contract distractions, and how easily the bigger picture is being forgotten including wins against Arsenal, Chelsea and PSG away in cups / CL.
With these results on the table and showing from the start that he wanted to make us a pressing team, dynamic and with attacking intent (until the injuries came and he changed the approach) there's still people saying that he's been hired and supported based on emotionality and because he's a legend, or "knows the club" shit. The levels of stupidity here are comical at times as we saw in the last page.
We should take also into account that nowadays positive managers tend to deal better with the 'modern footballer' than old school sergeants like LVG, or Mourinho who only seem to tolerate disciplined workhorses and some personal friends. So I'll leave for once the CV crap on a second plane and I'd focus more on attributes and conditions. Barcelona didn't care much for example about signing some unknown argentinian guy who only managed in Paraguay, or a trophyless Luis Enrique who did nothing impressive with Roma or Celta, and won the treble in the first season. Valverde only won trophies with Olympiakos and they're close to a treble again.
The obvious difference between Barcelona and us is they have a clear identity and the power relies on the club structures. We have an obsolete model that consist in giving all the power to each manager to decide what kind of team we are during his tenure, just to change everything again after a pair of seasons if they haven't done miracles by themselves. In the end we have a permanent team in transition with a squad lacking any homogeneity. A loss of money and time.
This is why the key at the moment should be to develop a proper identity at the club, draw a clear line to follow and keep building in that direction in the future even when we part ways with Ole, instead of trying to sign the more famous manager without considering his approach. If those being rumoured (Rio, Fletcher, even Phelan) are good enough to create that football culture at the club, I don't know. But at least it's a step forward compared to hiring an outdated dinosaur like Mourinho to bring immediate results, and then deny his demands because they are old and expensive. A total mess from the concept itself to the execution.
I think it's reasonable to have doubts about everything at the club at this moment, but I feel we are finally advancing something. If those at the club and whoever we bring in the end put the first stone to become an aggressive, attacking team in the long term for me they will have done more than we did in the last 6 years. This is why I think we need some patience to let this people build his team and instill their ideas and values, instead of waiting for the next game to decide if this week Solskjaer is Ferguson or David Moyes.
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@MisterLupus are you from Norway mate? Just curious.
Of course there's nothing wrong with changing opinions but there's posters rushing into this thread to tell everyone how right they are and claiming they never wanted Ole when their old posts say different.What’s the big deal with people changing their minds about something? Surely that’s normal, rather than having an opinion and sticking by it?
I was one of the biggest pro Mourinho posters during his first season because I really liked him as a manager, and now I hate him. Thoughts and opinions change over time. It’s not that weird
And I don't see whats wrong in being called out for it, primarily to make them realise them self that they had a different opinion previously, that they completely forgot about or in some cases downright lied about it!!!!
Then why do you want him sacked now, rather than wait and see!
We may be wrong and change our opinion, like you said, but any manager deserves the time to fix it. We did that with our previous three and we should do that with Ole as well.
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