This group of players is not winning the PL or CL under any manager without significant additions.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Showing your age
Btw I don’t believe the budgets always equate to trophies or at least it’s not the be all and end all.
I can make a logical and reasoned point to back up my point and opinion.... truly I’ve never heard or read anything logical, rational, or reasoned from the extremist amongst the Ole In forever and ever and ever, it’s all cult like petty insults and stock replies. You really do have to wonder do they support Man Utd or Ole
I still maintain that we should have won it this season.
No idea why fans think that the club with the 2nd biggest budget and the biggest net spend in the past few years should have no chance at getting the required points for the title.
Money can’t buy success alone ?
These are the kind of issues I have with Ole. This is not a one off. This is all the time. I am sure non of the top managers in the world would accept this. I remember Henry saying that when he played for Barca, he went inside from the left and Pep screamed at him. I have seen SAF have go at players for being selfish. One was United vs Benfica and SAF made Ronaldo cry. We can get Haarland or Kane but we are not going to win the PL or the CL if we are not able to beat teams that park the bus and also unless we always play as a team. We rarely play as a team for the whole 90 mins.
Exactly. There has to be a degree of quality and competence involved.
Because apart from Maguire, Bruno and Wan Bissaka who are contributing well, we could have barely spent it worse over the last 6 years.
You seriously think we've got a better squad than City?
Our head to head vs City was a draw and a win.
What I know for sure is we have a better and more expensive squad than the likes of Crystal Palace, Everton, Arsenal, West Brom, Leicester, fecking Sheffield Utd, etc. It wasn't impossible to pick up the required points vs those teams, something we failed to do. Those are the matches which ultimately cost us the league, not the draw and win vs City.
As Liverpool and Chelsea recently have shown, you don't need a better squad than City to pip them to the title, especially in a year like this which had such a weak winning tally.
Yeah sure has! Sounds better, rum beliesAutocorrect has brutalized you there, geebs
We went through this before, you can't just bank all the good results and then say every bad result should have been better. Every team can do the same.
We're not as good as City they have the best manager and more importantly the best squad in the PL and that's why they won the league.
Tuanzebe instead of Bailly, Rashford on the bench, Pogba on the left with Matic in midfield partnering McTom. At least then we'd have options to bring on if things did go pear shaped. Although I feel Greenwood coming off the bench provides more of an impact than Rashford. But even so, Mason deserved the start. Just feel it's a bit suicidal to go into a game with zero attacking options on the bench. It's not entirely on Ole either, I had a moan about the attacking depth at the end of the transfer window. Our Summer business really was a load of pish looking back.
That's fair if City get close to 100 points. In that case you hold your hands up and say fair enough we had no chance.
But they only got 86. That's a point tally that these days we should be aiming to beat every season regardless of what happens with our rivals. The fact that we had a golden opportunity midway through the season and ballsed it up is what still gets to me.
As for squad depth, surely we have seen from the EL final that it doesn't matter if the manager doesn't know how to use his squad properly. Emery had a worse 11 and bench than us, but still used them to good effect and managed to change the game and come out on top because he actually had faith in his squad players as opposed to Ole. Even if we do have a better squad than City, how are we to know if Ole can't trust them or use them properly?
I feel like we're under a populist regime, we have our own charismatic leader (Ole) who's not delivering but everyone make excuses for him because it's imposible to solve all the problems from past governments (Mourinho and LVG) in just a few years (seasons) even though he's been longer here that those from the past and external forces like the US (Glazers) are blocking us so that's why we are doing so bad. But we are doing fine even though we were better before.
We just need patience patience and faith, trust the leader he knows good from bad just give him more time. How much time? As many as needed don't you dare question him!
As the old saying goes: "We were better when we were worse"
We just need patience patience and faith, trust the leader he knows good from bad just give him more time. How much time? As many as needed don't you dare question him!
As the old saying goes: "We were better when we were worse"
Well the point is we could have won those easier games and had a good chance to win the title.
City got a better squad and a better manager, but it is not impossible to win as underdog. We all know what Leicester did.
I think the level City had in some of the previous title wins was insane. Like against Mourinho they had like 18 wins 1 draw in the first 19 games. I feel we should have done better in the head to head at Old Trafford, but not much you can do against such form.
This year though City actually started badly and we had the advantage after like 18-20 games.
I think its glaringly obvious. Job is too big for him, always was.
No he bottled it. Left himself with no cards he was willing to play off the bench. Total rookie error that he has made multiple times in big knockout games.
But we've been nowhere near an 86 points total for years other than a heroic De Gea season in 17/18. Being top of the league around midway flattered us, it was never going to be maintained.
For one Rashford and Martial were teenagers, and getting more out of Pogba than Mourinho is a pathetically low bar to clear. It’s not a zero sum proposition just because he’s done some things right doesn’t mean he’s the best man for the job, and just because he’s done better than Mourinho and LVG doesn’t mean there aren’t better managers out there. Marketing rather than football might be more your thing, but that’s ok too.
Agree on Bailly, I said it before the game. I don't think you can leave Rashford out of a final though.
Yeah the Summer transfer window was terrible but we all knew that which is why the season overall has been better than expected.
Ironic considering how many times we’ve lost or drawn against vastly inferior opposition because he couldn’t get the side to turn up.
I’m enjoying the journey, a few setbacks that hurt but over all I feel it’s going well
And again I'll say every team can say the same, while counting every game won as fully deserved.
It's definitely not the best City squad they've had, although links to Grealish and Kane sound ominous for next season.
I agree, but subpar management had a big part to play in both statements.
Sure we could have dropped points in other games. I feel particular at the start of the season we got lucky a few times and had some good second halves to save poor starts. Like the Brighton game we did not play well.
Although once we had a great chance to win the title then I do feel we should have pushed on and raised our level, but rather we just could not cope with the pressure and performed much worse.
City on the other hand lost KDB and managed to play better without him. Shows the different level in management. Had we lost Bruno I doubt Ole would have find ways to get Donny to perform at the same level.
It wasn’t maintained because of ill-discipline and dropping points to West Brom and Sheffield United, an inability to see out the Everton game, and approaching Arsenal like they were 1970s Brazil. This notion of absolving the manager because we “weren’t supposed to be there” is actually not a thing in professional sports, and a meek argument that seems to be a common theme amongst posters with a 99 next to their scree name.
Not every team can say the same, because not every team can say they are the better team in most matchups.
We are one of the few teams who can say that, and on top of that we were top of the table at the midway point. We were better positioned than most other teams to win it, but given the teams we dropped points to, I'm inclined to say the manager was not good enough to clinch it in the end.
Don’t you know by now that we only came 2nd because other teams were shit and only they are going to improve going into next year.
it’s also so obvious that if we had won our games we drew or lost then we could have won the league, don’t worry about the same applying to other teams.
When we do eventually win the league (which hopefully will happen sometime soon), how do you think it will happen? By losing and drawing a load of games? Dropping multiple points to inferior teams?
Ah yes all 4 of those are 100% on the manager. What are we thinking expecting these (supposedly good enough to win the league) players to step up and beat Sheff Utd without a manager controlling their every move.
What on earth has my forum name got to do with anything? If I'm 'absolving the manager' you are doing the opposite and giving him no credit for the good results. Nonsense posts must be a common theme amongst posters with udontmesswith24 in their name.
Agree with most of it. Except the bolded part. VdB is at least partly on Ole, if not completely.
I’ve given him plenty of credit for good results. If you don’t understand how leadership ties into the players switching off after we went 1st then you’re not capable of making meaningful contributions to a debate regarding manager performance. What you’re doing is campaigning.
By winning the most games but that goes without saying I thought. You can’t say if we’d won so and so match we’d be closer to challenging or winning the league because then Man City could say if we didn’t draw here and there we’d have had enough points then back to us scraping around looking for dropped points and on and on it could go, could apply to most teams near the top
Campaigning for what exactly?
What are you saying the manager did differently for the Sheff Utd etc games to the ones he won before that which led us to drop points?
And if City scraped enough results to get close to 100 points then we can say fair enough. But they didn't. They got 86. And as such the conclusion has to be that we should have done better than our 74 points, with the games where we slipped-up being fairly obvious.
Of course you always rely on the opposition to drop points in order to win the league, but City in their 100 and 98 point seasons relied mostly on themselves to win it, with minimal reliance on the opposition dropping points. But this time, without a doubt they relied on us dropping points in order to win it comfortably with an 86 point tally.
I'm saying he failed to keep them focused and motivated, and I'm saying the intangible aspects of leadership play an integral part in the success of failure of a manager. Mind you, this can all be true while the players like him, but players liking him is not enough. This can also be true while he has directly affected improvements in certain players. If you willfully ignore this while listing a bunch of accomplishments in isolation, you're campaigning. If your responses are contingent on zero sum propositions, you're campaigning.
He simply can't make the game changing decisions. He's too scared.
He was petrified against Villarreal, and his fear kept growing and spreading throughout the squad as the match progressed.
I truly can't believe how long it took for him to make a substitution. And settling for penalties was really unacceptable for a club of this stature. Sir Alex must have been disgusted with what he was seeing, from the man he trusted to bring on in a European Final no less.
I like Ole as a person and he represents the club with dignity and class, and he is clearly popular amongst the players, but the club needs more if we are to move forward.
He was petrified against Villarreal, and his fear kept growing and spreading throughout the squad as the match progressed.
I truly can't believe how long it took for him to make a substitution. And settling for penalties was really unacceptable for a club of this stature. Sir Alex must have been disgusted with what he was seeing, from the man he trusted to bring on in a European Final no less.
I like Ole as a person and he represents the club with dignity and class, and he is clearly popular amongst the players, but the club needs more if we are to move forward.
Context has a knack for clearing things up. For example, the nature of the dropped points after we went first, the teams the points were dropped against, and the fact that it was allowed to deteriorate into a string of lost points. Failure to turn up in a professional manner against West Brom and Sheffield United, failure to maintain focus to see the game out versus Everton, and passive tactics against Arsenal. Those are unforced and avoidable errors, and are FAR from isolated results under this manager. They did occur less frequently than the previous year, and Ole can legitimately tell the players that the factors that caused us to fade away in the title race were 100% internal so it can be a strong motivating factor going into next season.
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