What a load of bull. He messed up big time in his game management and not taking off DeGea for the penalties.
Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion
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Didn't post last night because I thought I`m too affected and wanted to calm down a bit. Looking back, can't say my feeling have changed
Ole`s game management last night was outright spineless and cowardly. He just refuses to substitute star players performing badly. While people will say that we lack quality on the bench, I`d argue that we are so poorly coached that we have to mostly rely on individual brilliance to get us out of tight matches. It's quite ironic that someone who was an impact sub for years, does not want to make any substitutions to influence games.
So, if his game management is poor, game tactics are quite vague and he doesn't coach the players, he is not really a manager, is he? He is probably ideal for DOF or something, but not a manager.
I have absolutely no belief that he can take us to the next level. Although we have improved from previous years, i think we are as high as Ole can take us. He has laid some decent groundwork but we must move on now.
Ole`s game management last night was outright spineless and cowardly. He just refuses to substitute star players performing badly. While people will say that we lack quality on the bench, I`d argue that we are so poorly coached that we have to mostly rely on individual brilliance to get us out of tight matches. It's quite ironic that someone who was an impact sub for years, does not want to make any substitutions to influence games.
So, if his game management is poor, game tactics are quite vague and he doesn't coach the players, he is not really a manager, is he? He is probably ideal for DOF or something, but not a manager.
I have absolutely no belief that he can take us to the next level. Although we have improved from previous years, i think we are as high as Ole can take us. He has laid some decent groundwork but we must move on now.
Some people really need to calm down.
So much negativity here.
So much negativity here.
Maybe because we just bottled a European final but only guessing
Hmmm
Why couldn't these players perform for the world class Jose Mourinho or Louis Van Gaal? Rashford, Pogba, Martial. Please explain
If Ole is such a nothing manager then how come these lads have played their best stuff for united under him rather than a Champions league winning manager?
Luke Shaw too. Seems like Ole is doing something right.
Cup competitions are wholly unpredictable. Best judge of performance is the league and Ole has United second. Serial losers certainly sounds quite harsh. Maybe a 3 year contract would be too much but sacking him would be ruthless. The kind this forum criticises clubs like Chelsea for doing constantly.
I do not think most people here would be upset with a rolling contract.
And that's why I ask to calm down.
Ole not going to sack so please move on.
All of them have won more under those two than under Ole.
The standards at the club have been on a downward spiral for years. This is just putting the nails in the coffin.
I do like Ole, but this is really as far as he takes us.
You realize that Martial also played well for LVG, and that he had just had his worst season for us, under Ole ?
That’s such an arrogant thing to say. Even Fergies greatest teams came undone against the unfancied teams
And still some clubs/managers win cups/finals regulary. And yes, when you lose 4 or 5 semis and finals in a row, you are serial loser. Just the same when you win stuff in a row, you become serial winner. Ole won nothing so far. Nothing. So how to call him to avoid that his fans don't get offended? One who did his best? Sacking manager after 3 seasons is not ruthless. Most managers don't get thst much time.
And about Chelsea; well, with their ruthless policy they are doing pretty good, aren't they?
Form wise, had he started with Rashford on the bench, not many United fans would have been too bothered. And he would have given himself a potential game changer to come on incase things were not going well.
Does he also realise we dont have to pay the same formation? If you play 75 minutes and things are not quite working out then surely you try something else before the games over?
Does he also realise we dont have to pay the same formation? If you play 75 minutes and things are not quite working out then surely you try something else before the games over?
We're going nowhere if we just hand out long term contracts at a whim.
We're pretty much Arsenal now.
We're pretty much Arsenal now.
When i said that he must win ALL cups? He didn't won any single cup, ffs.
And he has done better than Lvg and Jose? Wtf? When? How? In what?
Arsenal win cup then and there. We are Spurs
In a final?
Like there’s an excuse for everything. Eventually we might run out. I’m all for balanced arguments. But come on man. This is borrowed time now. Only us and Arsenal are left running unprofessional.
@RedSky you have always been a pretty rational 'Ole in' poster. So I want to ask you this: What are your expectations for next season and at what point do you lose faith in this project?
I'm supporting him going into next season, but our end of season form and the manner in which we lost last night is very disappointing. I fear next season is going to be very tough on all fronts.
I'm supporting him going into next season, but our end of season form and the manner in which we lost last night is very disappointing. I fear next season is going to be very tough on all fronts.
I know it wasn't directed at me, just to counter the question, how good does Ole have to do domestically for you to continue supporting him?
What always seems to be ignored is just how strong Chelsea, City & Liverpool are. Two of them have the best two managers in the world. Two of them are much better financed than us. All of them have an older(more experienced) squad than ours.
I think Ole is better than some give him credit for, but at the same time our starting 11 is amongst the best there is and could be challenging for the title or reaching the QF/SF. Our squad is also decent and better than Liverpool in regards to dept It seems like any win, cup run, or finishing second it attributed entirely to Ole and every thing bad is “ohh well he has a crap squad”
No team is full of superstars from 1-11...look at City, when they struggled early this season it was very easy to say “Stones isn’t good enough” “ Rodri isn’t suited to the Prem” “Dias was a bad signing” but the minute they do well and win the league, those players suddenly become world class.
Every great team has those types of players.... at Liverpool it’s players like Henderson, Wijnaldum, probably their CB other than VVD,
At United it’s our CB’s, Fred/McTominay.
At Chelsea, as i remember when Lampard was floundering, most of their summer signings were called “average”
Some players always look quality even if they are playing for a losing team, some players I call scapegoat players, they look average/crap when the team is losing but they could easily fit into a successful team and peoples opinions of them would change.
Depends on the level of investment really. But we need to be hitting 80+ points in the league irrespective of cup runs. Make it past the CL group stages as well.
Yesterday evening is by far the most i've disagreed with Oles decisions, from the starting lineup all he way to subs. Unacceptable from start to finish. Either way, I still trust him with the rebuild process but results need to continue to improve. Personally, I hope we get an experienced coach to help with training the squad and tactics.
I posted the below on 07 May and my thoughts haven't deviated much: I think leaving him in contact limbo is a dangerous game to play, and I would have no issue giving him a new contract provided there's clauses.
Did you just claim that every win is attributed to Ole and every loss is down to the quality of squad? It couldn't be more the opposite on this forum.
Fair enough, I'm kind of in the same place.
Yes in finals too. For example v sheff wed in a rum belies cup final
I’m just tired of all the moaning because of a result. If we had won last night it would be a different story this morning
And hes had two full seasons...
Jose might have won the EL and got more points one season, but he left the club in complete shambles, his tenure here was incredibly damaging for the club. If i really have to explain why hes done better than LvG then i suggest you take a walk and get some fresh air
Think we pretty much feel the same about him. As mentioned though, it cannot be ignored just how strong our domestic rivals are, I don't think SAF every faced such a tough domestic challenge(the top four with top managers, great squads and big funds).
Ed Woodward has been learning on the job since he took over.
In that time he hired Ole, a manager who has never succeeded at top level before, and has had to learn on the job.
Once Ole was hired, he made a decision to stick with and bring in coaches who are very new to and unproven at the highest level. Coaches who are also learning on the job.
In addition, he has also bought and trusted in players who have had little to no success at the highest level. Maguire, AWB, James, Ighalo, Bruno, etc. These players are trying to learn quickly how to win, from coaches who have never done so before.
Looking at it from afar, it seems all the personnel at the club from the top down are trying to learn on the job how to win trophies with no guidance from a proven top level figure, and so far have failed woefully.
But really, is it such a surprise? What other outcome did we expect?
In that time he hired Ole, a manager who has never succeeded at top level before, and has had to learn on the job.
Once Ole was hired, he made a decision to stick with and bring in coaches who are very new to and unproven at the highest level. Coaches who are also learning on the job.
In addition, he has also bought and trusted in players who have had little to no success at the highest level. Maguire, AWB, James, Ighalo, Bruno, etc. These players are trying to learn quickly how to win, from coaches who have never done so before.
Looking at it from afar, it seems all the personnel at the club from the top down are trying to learn on the job how to win trophies with no guidance from a proven top level figure, and so far have failed woefully.
But really, is it such a surprise? What other outcome did we expect?
Yeah, except we didn't. We should have beaten Villareal without having the game reaching pens to start with. They're not anywhere close to us and they didn't even play a good game as some seem to think. We lost because of our mistakes.
While I agree fully with you, I do find some of the excuses on here to be nauseating. I feel for some, they will exonerate Ole unless we spend 300 odd million.
I also posted the below on 07 May, and again, my thoughts remain the same after last night:
Funniest thing is this: We win it and the 'ins' will be running wild telling everyone this is progress while the outs will say it's 'only a tin pot cup'.
We lose and the 'ins' will say that it doesn't matter it was the 'only a tin pot cup' while the outs will use it as a stick to beat Ole with.
I already know the posters from both sides who are setting the wheels in motion for either scenario. For me, I said at the start of the season that part of progression would be reaching a cup final/winning it - just reaching the final is mission accomplished and losing a one-off final can happen.
In saying that, I would obviously be disappointed if we don't win it. I feel it'll be a great platform to build upon, and my belief is that success breeds a successful, winning mentality. Ole, by his own admissions focuses a-lot on man management/squad harmony, and I believe this bunch of lads winning something together will be a good platform for us to build upon for future success. Going into next season after finishing second and being EL winners will bring a real confidence to the squad. It's not a major cup obviously, but it would be great to see Ole as our manager lift a trophy and winning cups, leagues etc. is what it's all about. Obviously losing in the final doesn't negate all the good work we done to get there. But I admit I enjoyed our EL win under Jose - it was one of the good nights under his tutelage.
Overall, winning it changes very little for Ole in a-lot of ways but I truly believe we can use it as a platform to build on.
What starting line up would you have gone with?
Again your sentiments resemble my own. There doesn't need to be excuses for Ole to say that he's done enough to be backed further but also that ultimately its disappointing to lose a final we should have won.
I don't think we need to spend anywhere near 300mil. I think we could get the 3 players we need for around 100-120mil. That's beside the point, everyone in the world can see our weaknesses and until he has the opportunity to address those, like Klopp had with Lpool, like Pep(a few times) had with City I'd hold off from saying he has to go. The next manager is going to come in and at the very least need to address those same areas before he's expected to win things.
Your opinions on the final are similar to mine too, I don't see it as black and white if you don't win you're useless. Even if we played horribly and lost I still wouldn't think that because throughout our European campaign we beat PSG, Leipzig, AC Milan & Socieded. We've proven we can beat big teams. We've proven we can get past a semi-final. We should have won that final but the whole tenure cannot be simply summed up with losing a final on penalties, when everyone but our keeper scored.
We should rightly criticise last nights performance but it quickly goes beyond judging moments or games on here.
To be fair, they planned to park the buss and they did so very well. No doubt we shit the bed, but as far as bus parking go that was a prime example.
We shit the bed when we conceded from a FK 40? yards out
Mistakes happen, boo hoo. I hate to get grumpy but get over yourselves. We don’t win by just turning up. Sometimes we will be beaten
Their bus they parked was actually shit. I honestly didn't see any brilliant defending from them. They made ton of mistakes at the back and we didn't benefit from them at all. They were even doing stupid back passes at the back. The entire match I felt they were barely just hanging there.
I have seen sides who defended better than us in the league.
I knew it wasn't going to be an easy final, but what I saw from Villareal was the reason I think the loss was worse than how it even looks like. They really didn't have a good game at all. We just made it easy for them.
Look at how Rashford was just trying to take on his defender every single time he receives the ball. It's no surprise the defender ended up putting him in his pocket.
This would also be fine if not for the fact we have been 4 years without a single trophy and bottled ton of chances to win one over these 4 years, 2.5 ones of them under the current manager.
So yeah, unfortunately for me it wasn't just yesterday. Yesterday just came and strengthened the fact that our current team is fecking bottlers when it matters the most.
Not for me it wouldn’t. We started in the champions league and ending up in the Europa with the biggest budget in the competition yet we still couldn’t win it. We literally entering the competition like Real Madrid entering the Championship.
Sheffield Wednesday probably before my time I’m a late 80’s baby.
Sticking with Ole could get risky for us very soon.
In order to show the hottest prospects in the world right now that we are still one of the top dogs, it's imperative to win the PL or CL with this group of players. And I don't see us doing so with Ole. If we drift and drift and end up losing our best players and relying on subpar players, we could very quickly end up in a pretty bad situation where our reputation (which we've dined on post SAF) can't save us anymore.
Right now we haven't won a major title in almost a decade, and are currently being carried by our top players. If a few of them lose faith in the project and leave, and the only thing we can attract players with is money, we could very quickly see ourselves ending up in an "Arsenal under Wenger" situation.
Thankfully unlike Arsenal we would still have money due to our huge brand, but what's the use of that if we can never attract/hold on to the top top players who are more focused on winning trophies.
In order to show the hottest prospects in the world right now that we are still one of the top dogs, it's imperative to win the PL or CL with this group of players. And I don't see us doing so with Ole. If we drift and drift and end up losing our best players and relying on subpar players, we could very quickly end up in a pretty bad situation where our reputation (which we've dined on post SAF) can't save us anymore.
Right now we haven't won a major title in almost a decade, and are currently being carried by our top players. If a few of them lose faith in the project and leave, and the only thing we can attract players with is money, we could very quickly see ourselves ending up in an "Arsenal under Wenger" situation.
Thankfully unlike Arsenal we would still have money due to our huge brand, but what's the use of that if we can never attract/hold on to the top top players who are more focused on winning trophies.
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