Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Andycoleno9 said:
Ok, seriously. We have two clans ( pro Ole and against Ole) here who want the same. Best for United. We who are "enemies" of the club now and don't think that Ole is good, said many many times why he is not good. So, can somebody tell me, why do you think that he is good choice and why do you think that he is good manager in general? Based on what? I don't get it. Yes, he had great start but except that ;
1) his Cv is bad
2) his results are bad
3) we are playing the same if not worse like we did under Mourinho

So lets put "support manager" and "give him time" arguments aside and tell me, why do you have faith that we should stick with him?
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He has come to United and roughly equalled or outperformed two of the modern greats in management - LVG and Mourinho. Recent form has been poor but little credit has been given to the opposition - Wolves just destroyed Arsenal, West Ham (who we beat) have beaten Spurs. We lost twice to Barcelona, its Barcelona. We lost to City who are almost unplayable. Everton are in decent form too.

Too soon to judge him.
 
Only considering all the information he's got about these players he's our best candidate for next season, without mentioning anything else. I'm sure that after these months and even more after the last one, he knows exactly where to start from and where he needs to put more emphasis in the summer. It's always good to win games and destroy records the way he did, but losing can be helpful also to reveal certain things.

It would have been nice in some way to keep the honeymoon period forever, but it wouldn't have been as useful as the last month or two to assess what he really has in hands, how some players react under difficulty or under pressure or criticism both on and off the field. Now let the man cut the weed and refresh that dressing room with some new players, and let's see if he can develop his energetic approach preparing the team from preseason, like everyone else did this season except him. If this is a failure there won't be major problems to part ways and move on, but let's see how it works first before giving final judgments.

What he should consider in my opinion is to bring a pair of experienced guys to the staff. I don't mean releasing anyone but I don't know if Carrick and McKenna alone it's enough support for him, especially if Phelan is finally named DoF and is more focused on other issues. Watching the physical problems of the team and our lack of ideas in attack, I think a pair of quality additions to reinforce those areas would be very much welcome.
 
The only reason top four was a possibility was the ridiculous run Ole had initially. Yes it’s gone pear shaped but let’s not forget this isn’t his squad. Let him have a pre season, add a few additions to the squad and hit the reset. He deserves until December at least before he’s judged
 
Keefy18 said:
This is the most I've feared for the club in my lifetime anyway. Fergie had his blips but rebuilt team after team for us.

He doesn't have the CV, know how, experience or most likely the ability to attract quality players. I'm not talking about the cliched big names, I'm on about even young talented players. His record at Cardiff and now this massive dip in form at United suggests he possibly is an extremely poor manager? He's saying all the right things, but I'm not sure he will have the ability to act on those statements.

We've Woodward, a man with no real football knowledge. Phelan with no previous experience going into a Technical Director role and Ole a questionable managerial CV.

If supporters are worried, its fully understandable.
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All level headed supporters with some kind of experience of management can relate to your thoughts. Any other conclusions is blind faith.

I don’t get it. We all love the idea of Solskjaer as our new manager but if we look at it seriously there is nothing in his CV from a Molde and Cardiff, or his short stint with us, that suggest that he has the experience, the knowledge, the blueprint or the vision to move this club forward. We just supposed to have faith because his a legend, a good guy and that we don’t have others options. (which is BS)
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Ok, seriously. We have two clans ( pro Ole and against Ole) here who want the same. Best for United. We who are "enemies" of the club now and don't think that Ole is good, said many many times why he is not good.
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Not me mate. I'm against whoever figurehead in charge right now. It's not Ole's fault that the board emotionally picked him after just 15 matches.
I'd trust them to get the job done as much I trust my cat on the couch. United's future success now is a pure gamble, on that Ole being a hidden genius.

LvG & Mourinho had failed with this very system, with the players they hand-picked. There's no telling Ole will succeed with it.
 
Keefy18 said:
This is the most I've feared for the club in my lifetime anyway. Fergie had his blips but rebuilt team after team for us.

He doesn't have the CV, know how, experience or most likely the ability to attract quality players. I'm not talking about the cliched big names, I'm on about even young talented players. His record at Cardiff and now this massive dip in form at United suggests he possibly is an extremely poor manager? He's saying all the right things, but I'm not sure he will have the ability to act on those statements.

We've Woodward, a man with no real football knowledge. Phelan with no previous experience going into a Technical Director role and Ole a questionable managerial CV.

If supporters are worried, its fully understandable.
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Great post!
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Ok, seriously. We have two clans ( pro Ole and against Ole) here who want the same. Best for United. We who are "enemies" of the club now and don't think that Ole is good, said many many times why he is not good. So, can somebody tell me, why do you think that he is good choice and why do you think that he is good manager in general? Based on what? I don't get it. Yes, he had great start but except that ;
1) his Cv is bad
2) his results are bad
3) we are playing the same if not worse like we did under Mourinho

So lets put "support manager" and "give him time" arguments aside and tell me, why do you have faith that we should stick with him?
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I don't buy your premise. There really isn't a large group of posters on here who confidently claim that Ole is the right man for the job - and who can, consequently, provide you with a list of solid reasons for why this is the case. The most obvious division is between posters who are calling for his head - and posters who find this stance unreasonable, or ridiculous (for reasons given a million times already). I very much suspect that a significant number of the posters who represent the opposite "clan" to the one you identify with were quite skeptical about him getting the job permanently. But it's done now, the job is his. So, he gets the summer to ship out, bring in, train well, etc. And we judge him when the dust has settled.

It's not faith, it's common courtesy. And unless you actually think there's any chance of Woodward sacking him any time soon, it's bloody pointless to bang on relentlessly about how terrible the appointment is.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
The only reason top four was a possibility was the ridiculous run Ole had initially. Yes it’s gone pear shaped but let’s not forget this isn’t his squad. Let him have a pre season, add a few additions to the squad and hit the reset. He deserves until December at least before he’s judged
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But there’s literally nothing to suggest he deserves a chance to build a squad apart from him playing for us years ago, and having a little caretaker manager bounce. He’s got no real pedigree and barely any experience at the top level as a manager, and his PL record is poor.

I’m very worried about this summer and just how bad we could be next year. I’ll be so happy to be wrong.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
The only reason top four was a possibility was the ridiculous run Ole had initially. Yes it’s gone pear shaped but let’s not forget this isn’t his squad. Let him have a pre season, add a few additions to the squad and hit the reset. He deserves until December at least before he’s judged
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You are not wrong here, but the downfall raised some serious question marks about his abilities. We still look clueless and all the good form, the good play, the good tactics, were gone within 14 games. What makes you think he will buy the right players? On top, we have a shit setup as a club, so I'm not holding my breath
 
The big worry is that a lot of the players seem to have either downed tools or are looking for the exit. If this was a rival club - say Liverpool appointing Steve McManaman or Arsenal appointing Robert Pires - we'd be saying the players had already seen through the manager and the wheels had come off.

Let's hope Solskjaer buys the right players this summer. Given the amount of time he's spent at United under Fergie, you'd imagine he'd at least buy players who fit the club and not go for duds like Fellaini or Perisic.

He might not be the right man long-term but he's arguably the best man for the rebuilding job we've got this summer.
 
This club legend status is getting a bit out of hand, hes not David Beckham ffs he was a substitute striker
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Hang on. Yeah he a was a sub, but was still one of the best finishers in the world. Used to be called the baby face assassin. He was a really good striker... half a sniff at goal and he would score.

This is why Fergie dominated... subs. You need a good subs, too. Competition. And if your first string forwards fail (have a poor game), you make the sub.
 
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He has to be given until end of next season for me. The only way I would call for his head is if we start next season first ten games as we have finished this season. Ole needs to show his balls in the summer if he wants to stay longer at Utd. If he carries on this pals act with the players he wont last. At least 8 players need to be booted out the club
Valencia
Darmian
Rojo
Jones
Matic
Lukaku
Lingard
Mata

Then he needs to get the good players focused again. De Gea, Pogba, Martial. Add on that and he needs recruitment. So we need minimum of 5 first team players to come in
RB
CB
CM
RW
ST

Then of course we need to get our fitness up in the summer, develop our tactics and develop a strategy. Big summer for Ole. Hope he hasnt booked any holidays.

Oh add into that we need changes at the top. DOF, change in recruitment policy.
 
crossy1686 said:
De Gea is going to get Solskjær sacked, just like Pogba/Martial got Jose sacked.
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I recall that Martial and Pogba saved Jose's job in that match vs Newcastle where we were trailing 2-0 and won 3-2 thanks to them. Jose was heavily rumored to be sacked if a defeat occured but that's completely forgotten it seems.
 
I'm still of the opinion that he needs another year and a pre-season behind his belt and to be given a transfer window before we make a verdict on him. Every manager deserves that. Problem here is we've said that about our last two managers (twice, for each) and it hasn't helped, because usually those summers and pre-seasons have been shit, sometimes through no fault of their own, too. I don't think Ole is the right man for the job but even if we did get the right man he'd probably struggle to take us anywhere because of how poorly the club is run at the moment.
 
kouroux said:
I recall that Martial and Pogba saved Jose's job in that match vs Newcastle where we were trailing 2-0 and won 3-2 thanks to them. Jose was heavily rumored to be sacked if a defeat occured but that's completely forgotten it seems.
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Yeah, Martial and Pogba saved his ass so many times.

De Gea was super human for Jose, he isn't not even good GK for Ole.
 
kouroux said:
If there ever was a game to drop things and get him sacked, it was that one. Everything was laid on a silver platter
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Yeah, that game Pogba's performance was just unreal. He played everywhere, including as a defender pinging passes from deep like a great ball playing CB. Then ended up in the final third too.
 
He sold out our performances from first few games for result based approach, he said it himself, there was interest in it and he fecked it up, now he is left with no results and no performances.
 
Re: downing tool (possibly).

Depends entirely on who this applies to. If it's everyone, he's obviously fecked and there's nothing more to discuss. I highly doubt that, though.

If we take his words at face value, he's been telling certain players that it's now or never: impress me or get shipped out after the season. If those players have now downed tools - fine. As long as they're actually shipped out, no problem, it's a good thing long term.

Then there's the case of players possibly wanting new pastures. Nothing much he can do about this, it doesn't reflect badly on him, just on the state of the club these days. Let them go, get as much money as possible for them and move on. What Ole needs to focus on is rebuilding a squad that clearly has major issues at the moment, not selling pipe dreams to uncommitted players.

People have been talking about his first "proper test" since he arrived, but in my opinion that will be the ins and outs this summer. If he proves himself decisive (ruthless if needed) in that regard, I'll take that as a very good sign, even if we see some big names leaving. If he doesn't...well, then that will be first strike for him. And very, very worrying.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Ok, seriously. We have two clans ( pro Ole and against Ole) here who want the same. Best for United. We who are "enemies" of the club now and don't think that Ole is good, said many many times why he is not good. So, can somebody tell me, why do you think that he is good choice and why do you think that he is good manager in general? Based on what? I don't get it. Yes, he had great start but except that ;
1) his Cv is bad
2) his results are bad
3) we are playing the same if not worse like we did under Mourinho

So lets put "support manager" and "give him time" arguments aside and tell me, why do you have faith that we should stick with him?
Click to expand...
I agree there isn't much of an argument why we should have faith in him based on his CV. I'm more 'there was no better option' than 'pro Ole', however:
  • We are playing with exactly the same players that have shown for 4-5 years now that they aren't good enough. It was entirely predictable (to me at least) that performances weren't going to be miraculously better regardless who was in charge. I think you'll find very few examples where a new manager has come in at the very top level and dramatically changed results with no transfers. Top players are more important than a top manager (hence Mancini beat SAF to a league title, Di Matteo won a CL etc)
  • You say yourself we are playing the same as Mourinho, one of the best managers of all time, who was better than LVG (another who many rate highly). Doesn't this say something? The manager is not as important as we think? There are bigger problems elsewhere?
  • His results are bad? Better than everyone bar the top 2 since he came in. Better than Poch over the last 10 league games (i'm guessing that's who you want in?)
  • Ole played with some of the best players and characters we've ever had. He'll be looking at this squad and wondering how it's such a mess. Imagine playing alongside the likes of Keane, Neville, Giggs, Ferdinand, Scholes, Rooney etc. and comparing it to the state of what we have now in the dressing room. We don't have a single leader in the squad, those players could probably have managed themselves and still finished top 4. While he might not ever be the best tactically, i've got some faith that he'll at least target creating a squad of players with the right mentality and quality to get us back on track, because that what he knows here.
The question back to you which no 'against Ole' seems to be able to answer is what you would have done instead?
 
We are where we are - whatever your opinions/reservations on Ole’s suitability for the role, he has been appointed manager and therefore has to be given some time and backing to try to implement improvements. How much time is open to debate but it’s certainly longer than 3 months and no transfer window.
 
Interesting betfair stat
Chesterlestreet said:
Re: downing tool (possibly).

If we take his words at face value, he's been telling certain players that it's now or never: impress me or get shipped out after the season. If those players have now downed tools - fine. As long as they're actually shipped out, no problem, it's a good thing long term.
.
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Surely you don't manage like that. It is an art. You have to make sure players know what they need to improve but let them know that you are there to support them. This way you are more or less telling the squad / player - 'its you not me'.

There is not a team in the world that reacts well to that ultimatum from experienced pros to up and coming youngsters.
 
kouroux said:
One thing grates me match after match, Rashford on FKs is clearly not working but he doesn't change it ?
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Yet again the commentator's were bigging up his freekick credentials before he took it. All due to that one time he put scored in one of Ole's early games?
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Yet again the commentator's were bigging up his freekick credentials before he took it. All due to that one time he put scored in one of Ole's early games?
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It's the same with most players though, everyone remembers 'that one time'. The most free kicks scored for any player in the PL is 2 this season, same as last.

The rest of Rashford's game is nowhere near good enough at the moment though if we want to challenge the best.
 
Ole needs to be more ruthless. He talks about standards at this club and how there's nowhere to hide and still plays people that are clearly out of form. The job ahead is massive and a difficult one, he can't be sentimental and best buddy with all the players even though he wants to. He if anyone should know that creating competition is good for a player but if certain players can't lose their spot despite playing poorly for longer periods it can have an opposite effect.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
The only reason top four was a possibility was the ridiculous run Ole had initially. Yes it’s gone pear shaped but let’s not forget this isn’t his squad. Let him have a pre season, add a few additions to the squad and hit the reset. He deserves until December at least before he’s judged
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Its not the "only" reason. Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal being awful are three more reasons. If anything, Ole and the players were almost handed top 4 and we gleefully rejected it.
 
Womp said:
What the feck does being a legend of the club have to do with his ability to manage here? It means feck all. He was a legend as a player, not a manager
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Think people are having trouble separating the two things. He will always be a legend as a player.
 
It's sad to see so many posters believing anyone and everyone should be "given a chance", given millions of pounds to buy players and put another 1 or 2 seasons at stake to see if something will, fortunately, work out or not, instead of taking a logical approach where you select the option which is least risky.

We are basically treating our club as a lab rat and with that mentality, I dare say there's a much higher probability that Liverpool will win the EPL before we come even close to challenging for it.

There was no hurry at all to give Ole that job and I still do think he is not the right man. There's too much "sentimentality" surrounding this club and people going on about "United way" and all that. I fear this might make us become dinosaurs instead of adapting to the modern game.

That said, since he already has the job now, it would be unfair to sack him anytime soon. The club should back him in the transfer market, but that should be done with the oversight of a DoF so that we don't buy expensive players only to find out they won't fit in the system if we are going to bring in a new manager. And this is where I am afraid.

The whole structure at the club is a mess. Big clubs should be competitive and keep winning things irrespective of who's the manager. Look at all the other top European clubs and we are nothing like them.

It pains me to say this, but it's really hard for me to be hopeful about United unless we see a real change at the club, and for me, the buck ultimately stops at Woodward and the Glazers.
 
Samba said:
It's sad to see so many posters believing anyone and everyone should be "given a chance", given millions of pounds to buy players and put another 1 or 2 seasons at stake to see if something will, fortunately, work out or not, instead of taking a logical approach where you select the option which is least risky.

We are basically treating our club as a lab rat and with that mentality, I dare say there's a much higher probability that Liverpool will win the EPL before we come even close to challenging for it.

There was no hurry at all to give Ole that job and I still do think he is not the right man. There's too much "sentimentality" surrounding this club and people going on about "United way" and all that. I fear this might make us become dinosaurs instead of adapting to the modern game.

That said, since he already has the job now, it would be unfair to sack him anytime soon. The club should back him in the transfer market, but that should be done with the oversight of a DoF so that we don't buy expensive players only to find out they won't fit in the system if we are going to bring in a new manager. And this is where I am afraid.

The whole structure at the club is a mess. Big clubs should be competitive and keep winning things irrespective of who's the manager. Look at all the other top European clubs and we are nothing like them.

It pains me to say this, but it's really hard for me to be hopeful about United unless we see a real change at the club, and for me, the buck ultimately stops at Woodward and the Glazers.
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They are the ones solely responsible for this shower of shite we are witnessing. They should have brought in a top quality sporting director years ago and let that person have full responsibility of that side while Woodward sticks to handling things on the commercial side. That one change could have made things look so different but they are just completely clueless and have let a guy who is out of his depth to continue year after year with one crap decision after another.
 
kouroux said:
One thing grates me match after match, Rashford on FKs is clearly not working but he doesn't change it ?
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Not only that, but Young taking every set piece that requires a delivery into the box. Yet it's constantly woeful.
 
I remember I got so much shit for saying we should've waited until the end of the season to give him a contract... now look at you all :lol:
 
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