Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Paul_Scholes18]

I still think we need uppgrades. Either manager, players or both to win it next season.

I think a manager uppgrade would be easier to do, but also higher risk to go wrong. We could also spend big, but I doubt we do it well.

We can maybe win it with almost the same squad next year if we get a solid pre season and few injuries and Ole improve the way we play in tight low scoring games.

I got to say our fitness team have done a great job this season so hopefully we can build on that. I know every other side will get the extra pre season too so might not be easier.

 

[Withnail]

I still think we need uppgrades. Either manager, players or both to win it next season.

I think a manager uppgrade would be easier to do, but also higher risk to go wrong. We could also spend big, but I doubt we do it well.

We can maybe win it with almost the same squad next year if we get a solid pre season and few injuries and Ole improve the way we play in tight low scoring games.

I got to say our fitness team have done a great job this season so hopefully we can build on that. I know every other side will get the extra pre season too so might not be easier.

Personnel is far more important in my mind. A quality CB or number 6 and we cut out those silly goals we are conceding, a RW means we'll have more variety in attack and the side will be more balanced. We also need another CF even if Cavani stays, as he can't play every game.

Any new manager coming in will need to upgrade those areas anyway if they hope to challenge Pep, let alone an improving Chelsea and a possibly resurgent Liverpool. Even if they did do that it's a very tall order to come in and immediately win the title.

 

[Eckers99]

Winning a trophy and cutting the gap to City and Liverpool was the most we could realistically hope to achieve this season. We've surpassed one of them, are within 10 (could be 7) points of the leaders and have broken our semi-final hoodoo.

That aside, we play good football, morale is high on the pitch, leaders are emerging, we're fitter than we've been in years and there's young talent coming through. It's been an excellent season.

A couple of top additions in the summer and we could be ready to seriously challenge for major honours again.

 

[rotherham_red]

I don't think it's that. Ole is as close as you get to a foreigner being an Englishman. I don't read the tabloids so I don't know. To my mind the most critical people have been Athletic writers like Anka and Cox and the Guardian Wilson and Liew.

And this is basically the nub of the issue. A while ago on the Guardian Podcast, when he was finally pushed by Max Rushden to justify his unshakable belief that Ole is crap , Jonathan Wilson said as much.

He doesn't sound good. He doesn't project greatness. Arteta does. He talks about tactical diagrams and pure maths, triangulating Aubameyang's positioning and having Tierney calculate the square on the hypotenuse. Ole says something about how "um...err...aa..we're Man Yaanaited and uh...we're up for the challenge." Arteta worked for Guardiola and Wenger. Ole worked for no tactics Ferguson and was relegated with Cardiff. This is how it is for some managers. Ancelotti is seen as a galactico whisperer at best and a fraud at worst by the same set of sportswriters.

The press always has a narrative and unless your acheivement is so undeniable that even a blind man can see it (Ole winning something significant) it will remain this way.

In fairness to Anka, he's rowed back on a lot of his criticism and is much fairer these days on Ole. I brought him up on an old tweet of his around the time of the Burnley match and we had a nice back and forth over it.

 

[bond19821982]

I still think we need uppgrades. Either manager, players or both to win it next season.

I think a manager uppgrade would be easier to do, but also higher risk to go wrong. We could also spend big, but I doubt we do it well.

We can maybe win it with almost the same squad next year if we get a solid pre season and few injuries and Ole improve the way we play in tight low scoring games.

I got to say our fitness team have done a great job this season so hopefully we can build on that. I know every other side will get the extra pre season too so might not be easier.

I am one of the Ole outers but he deserves another season with some world class signings. Consistency has always been the key for us and it looks like we are getting it right. Unless, we drop out of top 4 I won't think about sacking him next year.

 

[Hakara]

Seems he has convinced Cavani to stay for another year, surely down to his man management which I think is impeccable.

 

[lysglimt]

My opinion on Ole still the same, just have my doubts he can take us to that next level. Can't stand his interviews on tv as he just doesn't come over as well as other top managers.

I have 2 words for you: Jurgen Klopp!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I have been critical of Ole at certain points this season but there has been significant mitigating factors too such as the crazy fixture congestion, lack of pre season and the poor summer recruitment. With that in mind he’s saved our best form right for the end of the season, because at the moment I feel like we are flying. Some brilliant interplay, Pogba is rejuvenated, Greenwood is stepping up, Cavani looks to have fully regained fitness and has got better and better. Rashfords form is a slight concern but I don’t think Ole has many rotation options so I can understand why he’s been overplayed.

Overall, he’s quite simply smashed all the expectations for this season so far. I really hope we can now get over the line, claim second place and win the Europa league to lay down a marker on a good season. I expect with the right additions to this squad we can continue to grow as a team. The biggest difference compared to the previous managers is that Ole has earned my trust. I trust he will sign the right players and use them correctly. He won’t get them all perfectly but he has shown he can make massive improvements with the correct signings.

 

[Haddock]

How does that work when Klopp always comes across as a gurning cheerleading twat?
EDIT: because he's won things he can do what he wants and they'll say nothing because they'll look dumb?

Basically. And he has had a stellar career at Mainz and Dortmund. He also has the magic Scouse get-out-of-jail card - "I'm more passionate. This means more to us that others"

Now, in general the United correspondents are fairly supportive of Ole. If anything I want them to be tougher on him. Managers should be held to account and I myself doubt how good Ole really is but just look at some of the stuff sportswriters come out with.








Cox:



More Cox
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrCUdUX0AUGr8d?format=jpg&name=medium


Gab Marcotti has spent 2 years laughing at him. After one mediocre result, Jonathan Liew said our performance reflected our club's corporate culture. This in a season where we have won away at City, beaten a team nine zip and given a manager as good as Naglesman a 5-0 hiding but because Arteta won the FA Cup by parking the bus and give it to Auba he's a genius.

Now I don't care about what Ollie Holt thinks because he's a clueless tabloid feckwit. But Wilson is a serious sportswriter, a damn good one. Cox is shit but he's also the subject of a gushing profile in the New Statesman by the UK's best young literary critic. These guys have significant influence in the game. It's highly likely that if you are a football fan in the anglosphere and know something about football tactics, it can be traced back to one of these guys writing about it.

Shouldn't you have some kind of accountability to readers for this? Yet no one says anything except BTL commentators and internet anons who can shouted down. In the BTL after the Manchester Derby where we won 2-0, of all the comments in the Guardian calling Wilson out, the Guardian chose to make the one fluff post praising Wilson its 'Guardian pick'. Of course Ole is not the only manager to cop unfair treatment, the media does this constantly. Push narrative over reality.

It always pays to have a decent sportswriter to fight your side. Sir Alex had Hugh McIlvanney and Klopp has Honigstein. Ole's could hardly be worse - Jamie Jackson who doesn't rate Bielsa. The association only further solidifies Ole's supposedly anti-intellectual approach.

In fairness to Anka, he's rowed back on a lot of his criticism and is much fairer these days on Ole. I brought him up on an old tweet of his around the time of the Burnley match and we had a nice back and forth over it.

Do you have a link? Some of it may have to do with increasing sanity but also the fact that he's just co-authored a children's book with Rashford.

 

[Grylte]

I am one of the Ole outers but he deserves another season with some world class signings.

I don't get this.
I can't remember to ever have heard people talk about a manager and say "he deserves another season". Why is this only said about Ole?

Either give him a new contract or not, and if not find someone else for long term, stop this "one more season" nonsense.

We've improved a lot since he took over, he has the right ideas, and he loves the club, not the money.

One more season has never been said about any other manager in the history, i'm 100% sure.

 

[Withnail]

Basically. And he has had a stellar career at Mainz and Dortmund. He also has the magic Scouse get-out-of-jail card - "I'm more passionate. This means more to us that others"

Now, in general the United correspondents are fairly supportive of Ole. If anything I want them to be tougher on him. Managers should be held to account and I myself doubt how good Ole really is but just look at some of the stuff sportswriters come out with.








Cox:



More Cox
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrCUdUX0AUGr8d?format=jpg&name=medium


Gab Marcotti has spent 2 years laughing at him. After one mediocre result, Jonathan Liew said our performance reflected our club's corporate culture. This in a season where we have won away at City, beaten a team nine zip and given a manager as good as Naglesman a 5-0 hiding but because Arteta won the FA Cup by parking the bus and give it to Auba he's a genius.

Now I don't care about what Ollie Holt thinks because he's a clueless tabloid feckwit. But Wilson is a serious sportswriter, a damn good one. Cox is shit but he's also the subject of a gushing profile in the New Statesman by the UK's best young literary critic. These guys have significant influence in the game. It's highly likely that if you are a football fan in the anglosphere and know something about football tactics, it can be traced back to one of these guys writing about it.

Shouldn't you have some kind of accountability to readers for this? Yet no one says anything except BTL commentators and internet anons who can shouted down. In the BTL after the Manchester Derby where we won 2-0, of all the comments in the Guardian calling Wilson out, the Guardian chose to make the one fluff post praising Wilson its 'Guardian pick'. Of course Ole is not the only manager to cop unfair treatment, the media does this constantly. Push narrative over reality.

It always pays to have a decent sportswriter to fight your side. Sir Alex had Hugh McIlvanney and Klopp has Honigstein. Ole's could hardly be worse - Jamie Jackson who doesn't rate Bielsa. The association only further solidifies Ole's supposedly anti-intellectual approach.


Do you have a link? Some of it may have to do with increasing sanity but also the fact that he's just co-authored a children's book with Rashford.

I'd agree on Wilson. He's the only one out of that lot I'd have any time for and I am surprised but if Ole wins a few things they'll have to change their tune.

Miguel Delaney is just a hack who writes whatever is fashionable at the time. He offers no insight whatsoever and is the very definition of recency bias. He's an awful clown. I've him muted on twitter but occasionally he pops up on the odd podcast.

 

[Haddock]

I'd agree on Wilson. He's the only one out of that lot I'd have any time for and I am surprised but if Ole wins a few things they'll have to change their tune.

Miguel Delaney is just a hack who writes whatever is fashionable at the time. He offers no insight whatsoever and is the very definition of recency bias. He's an awful clown. I've him muted on twitter but occasionally he pops up on the odd podcast.

Since I slagged off the media I feel obliged to post this about one writer who is now saying Ole needs to be backed.

Excerpt:
Finishing second in the league is considered good for now, but it will not be forever. United mounted a title challenge this season without ever looking like they were actually going to be champions. That cannot keep happening.
United need to improve their squad with a centre-back, a central midfield player and a winger in the summer to maintain forward momentum.
But we are no longer looking at Solskjaer when we discuss the reasons why United are not good enough yet to win the league. Instead, he deserves to be given the tools to prove he can do it.
Sorry is the least we can say.

 

[rotherham_red]

Basically. And he has had a stellar career at Mainz and Dortmund. He also has the magic Scouse get-out-of-jail card - "I'm more passionate. This means more to us that others"

Now, in general the United correspondents are fairly supportive of Ole. If anything I want them to be tougher on him. Managers should be held to account and I myself doubt how good Ole really is but just look at some of the stuff sportswriters come out with.








Cox:



More Cox
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrCUdUX0AUGr8d?format=jpg&name=medium


Gab Marcotti has spent 2 years laughing at him. After one mediocre result, Jonathan Liew said our performance reflected our club's corporate culture. This in a season where we have won away at City, beaten a team nine zip and given a manager as good as Naglesman a 5-0 hiding but because Arteta won the FA Cup by parking the bus and give it to Auba he's a genius.

Now I don't care about what Ollie Holt thinks because he's a clueless tabloid feckwit. But Wilson is a serious sportswriter, a damn good one. Cox is shit but he's also the subject of a gushing profile in the New Statesman by the UK's best young literary critic. These guys have significant influence in the game. It's highly likely that if you are a football fan in the anglosphere and know something about football tactics, it can be traced back to one of these guys writing about it.

Shouldn't you have some kind of accountability to readers for this? Yet no one says anything except BTL commentators and internet anons who can shouted down. In the BTL after the Manchester Derby where we won 2-0, of all the comments in the Guardian calling Wilson out, the Guardian chose to make the one fluff post praising Wilson its 'Guardian pick'. Of course Ole is not the only manager to cop unfair treatment, the media does this constantly. Push narrative over reality.

It always pays to have a decent sportswriter to fight your side. Sir Alex had Hugh McIlvanney and Klopp has Honigstein. Ole's could hardly be worse - Jamie Jackson who doesn't rate Bielsa. The association only further solidifies Ole's supposedly anti-intellectual approach.


Do you have a link? Some of it may have to do with increasing sanity but also the fact that he's just co-authored a children's book with Rashford.

Here you go mate

 

[Withnail]

Since I slagged off the media I feel obliged to post this about one writer who is now saying Ole needs to be backed.

Excerpt:
Finishing second in the league is considered good for now, but it will not be forever. United mounted a title challenge this season without ever looking like they were actually going to be champions. That cannot keep happening.
United need to improve their squad with a centre-back, a central midfield player and a winger in the summer to maintain forward momentum.
But we are no longer looking at Solskjaer when we discuss the reasons why United are not good enough yet to win the league. Instead, he deserves to be given the tools to prove he can do it.
Sorry is the least we can say.

Hopefully the first of many and he can keep proving the doubters wrong.

 

[Eriku]

Since I slagged off the media I feel obliged to post this about one writer who is now saying Ole needs to be backed.

Excerpt:
Finishing second in the league is considered good for now, but it will not be forever. United mounted a title challenge this season without ever looking like they were actually going to be champions. That cannot keep happening.
United need to improve their squad with a centre-back, a central midfield player and a winger in the summer to maintain forward momentum.
But we are no longer looking at Solskjaer when we discuss the reasons why United are not good enough yet to win the league. Instead, he deserves to be given the tools to prove he can do it.
Sorry is the least we can say.

So funny that United are too good to not give City a proper challenge, but let’s just sweep under the rug that Chelsea and Liverpool are comfortably behind us, and Arsenal are out of sight in a bad way.

Incredible double-standards.

 

[TheGame]

My opinion on Ole still the same, just have my doubts he can take us to that next level. Can't stand his interviews on tv as he just doesn't come over as well as other top managers.

However, I'm pleased he's doing well for us and definitely improved us and long may it continue. I'll be so happy to eat all the humble pies available along with egg on my face stating I was wrong. It will be a happy day for me if that happens.

Hopefully he can win us the Eurpoa Cup and with the right transfers in summer make us a team that can compete with City and Liverpool once their back to full strength for the Premier League.

Can you confirm whose interviews you can stand and why?

 

[TrustInOle]

So funny that United are too good to not give City a proper challenge, but let’s just sweep under the rug that Chelsea and Liverpool are comfortably behind us, and Arsenal are out of sight in a bad way.

Incredible double-standards.

I blame Fergie, if he didn't win so many trophies here we would be looked at any different, he's left alot of people traumatized my domination.

 

[Eriku]

I blame Fergie, if he didn't win so many trophies here we would be looked at any different, he's left alot of people traumatized my domination.

Very good point

I’m lucky to have the Norwegian national team temper my expectations.

Btw, just stumbled across an apology in the form of an article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/10/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-owe-apology/

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Cox:



More Cox
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrCUdUX0AUGr8d?format=jpg&name=medium


Gab Marcotti has spent 2 years laughing at him. After one mediocre result, Jonathan Liew said our performance reflected our club's corporate culture. This in a season where we have won away at City, beaten a team nine zip and given a manager as good as Naglesman a 5-0 hiding but because Arteta won the FA Cup by parking the bus and give it to Auba he's a genius.

Now I don't care about what Ollie Holt thinks because he's a clueless tabloid feckwit. But Wilson is a serious sportswriter, a damn good one. Cox is shit but he's also the subject of a gushing profile in the New Statesman by the UK's best young literary critic. These guys have significant influence in the game. It's highly likely that if you are a football fan in the anglosphere and know something about football tactics, it can be traced back to one of these guys writing about it.

Shouldn't you have some kind of accountability to readers for this? Yet no one says anything except BTL commentators and internet anons who can shouted down. In the BTL after the Manchester Derby where we won 2-0, of all the comments in the Guardian calling Wilson out, the Guardian chose to make the one fluff post praising Wilson its 'Guardian pick'. Of course Ole is not the only manager to cop unfair treatment, the media does this constantly. Push narrative over reality.

It always pays to have a decent sportswriter to fight your side. Sir Alex had Hugh McIlvanney and Klopp has Honigstein. Ole's could hardly be worse - Jamie Jackson who doesn't rate Bielsa. The association only further solidifies Ole's supposedly anti-intellectual approach.


Do you have a link? Some of it may have to do with increasing sanity but also the fact that he's just co-authored a children's book with Rashford.

 

[VP89]

Basically. And he has had a stellar career at Mainz and Dortmund. He also has the magic Scouse get-out-of-jail card - "I'm more passionate. This means more to us that others"

Now, in general the United correspondents are fairly supportive of Ole. If anything I want them to be tougher on him. Managers should be held to account and I myself doubt how good Ole really is but just look at some of the stuff sportswriters come out with.








Cox:



More Cox
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjrCUdUX0AUGr8d?format=jpg&name=medium


Gab Marcotti has spent 2 years laughing at him. After one mediocre result, Jonathan Liew said our performance reflected our club's corporate culture. This in a season where we have won away at City, beaten a team nine zip and given a manager as good as Naglesman a 5-0 hiding but because Arteta won the FA Cup by parking the bus and give it to Auba he's a genius.

Now I don't care about what Ollie Holt thinks because he's a clueless tabloid feckwit. But Wilson is a serious sportswriter, a damn good one. Cox is shit but he's also the subject of a gushing profile in the New Statesman by the UK's best young literary critic. These guys have significant influence in the game. It's highly likely that if you are a football fan in the anglosphere and know something about football tactics, it can be traced back to one of these guys writing about it.

Shouldn't you have some kind of accountability to readers for this? Yet no one says anything except BTL commentators and internet anons who can shouted down. In the BTL after the Manchester Derby where we won 2-0, of all the comments in the Guardian calling Wilson out, the Guardian chose to make the one fluff post praising Wilson its 'Guardian pick'. Of course Ole is not the only manager to cop unfair treatment, the media does this constantly. Push narrative over reality.

It always pays to have a decent sportswriter to fight your side. Sir Alex had Hugh McIlvanney and Klopp has Honigstein. Ole's could hardly be worse - Jamie Jackson who doesn't rate Bielsa. The association only further solidifies Ole's supposedly anti-intellectual approach.


Do you have a link? Some of it may have to do with increasing sanity but also the fact that he's just co-authored a children's book with Rashford.

These are good pieces of evidence -I do just want to add that Cox is always an over exaggerative gobshite, literally no one has ever paid much credence to Delany whilst Marcotti is part of a sensationalist channel which overcooks every team +manager.

I don't think Hogenstein is someone who fights by Klopp's side, either. Carl Anka is always someone who has made me wonder how easy it must be to get a role as a journalist.

Generally speaking I wouldn't listen to journalist opinions on managers or remits they are unaware of. Cox/Delany/Anka knew nothing about the workings of United or what they were doing behind the scenes to qualify for an opinion. Hogenstein is the only one from that example that I think would be capable of valuable information given his connections and deep knowledge. It's a bit like if I read about Serie A, I would care to listen to James Horncastle, because that's his forte.

 

[He'sRaldo]

The thing with Ole is there are never any half measures with him. Either he's done a brilliant job that no other manager could have possibly done, or he's a P.E teacher that needs the sack asap.

It's hard to agree with either category, because the way I see it he's done some very good work, however there are so many things he does which leave you unconvinced. Of course you will never agree 100% with a manager's decisions, but at some points it feels like the Jose period where the man just missed obvious stuff that even fans sitting on their armchairs could see.

The thing that gives me hope is that he does tend to rectify and learn from his errors, even if it's at a slower pace than I'd like. At this point with most other top managers taken we're pretty much all-in on the man, so hopefully he can deliver enough to make it worth the faith. A lot of our players are prime age right now, so now is the time to go for the jugular and win as much as we can with this group.

 

[Cast5]

Journalists aren’t football people, they’re idiots. People who have played and watched the game for a long time laugh at the shite they write. They suck in a lot of gullible people though, especially when they talk about tactics and make it sound like rocket science when it’s really simple stuff.

 

[slored1]

Journalists aren’t football people, they’re idiots. People who have played and watched the game for a long time laugh at the shite they write. They suck in a lot of gullible people though, especially when they talk about tactics and make it sound like rocket science when it’s really simple stuff.

I always laugh when I hear stuff from Michael Cox when he makes football sound like rocket science. The guy speaks about it like managers study trigonometry and think about the gravity when players are crossing the ball.

 

[Karlos PFC]

I'm gonna quote myself from the other thread, as I think it perfectly predicts how this thread will look like in a month or so:

The Ole out crowd:
2nd place but less than 82 points = we haven't improved since Mourinho!
82 points, but no EL trophy = this means nothing! Ole hasn't won a trophy!
82 points and EL trophy = why didn't Ole rotate his players more?! Terrible man management!
82 points, EL trophy, playing the kids = OK it worked out this time, but he took a huge risk playing the kids there! This is not sustainable long-term. Also, where are the patterns of play!?

As an Ole-out since he first came here, I have to admit that he has done a decent job and the good outweighs the bad. I still don't think that he is a world class manager and a manager for one of the biggest club in the world, but what the hell at the moment he has earned his third season.

As for the Ole out crowd list you know that coin has two sides

We had a shocking form in his last 3 months after Mourinho = this is not his team, let him build his team and the judge him
A pretty shit first half last season = he can't compete with Perreira and Lingard, let him build his team
In every game of his first season he made his subs at the 83rd minute = He doesn't trust his bench
A shitty performance and defeat from West Brom before Bruno arrived = he is still learning on the job, also can't compete with Lingard and Perreira
We don't qualify from the Champions League group because of a shit Turkish side and with two games needing just 1 point = part of the learning curve, shit players
Nightmare first month of second season with C Palace, Brighton and Spurs = no preseason

As I said I admit that the good outweighs the bad he's done, the list is just for sake of it to counter yours.

 

[TrustInOle]

Very good point

I’m lucky to have the Norwegian national team temper my expectations.

Btw, just stumbled across an apology in the form of an article:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2021/05/10/ole-gunnar-solskjaer-owe-apology/

Alot of them embarrassed themselves with the sh1te they were coming out with, all rumours and here say with no substantial understanding of what Ole was trying to accomplish after the mess he inherited.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I blame Fergie, if he didn't win so many trophies here we would be looked at any different, he's left alot of people traumatized my domination.

He also left a lot journalists traumatized by putting them in their place when they overstepped the mark.

 

[OleBoiii]

As an Ole-out since he first came here, I have to admit that he has done a decent job and the good outweighs the bad. I still don't think that he is a world class manager and a manager for one of the biggest club in the world, but what the hell at the moment he has earned his third season.

.... so you're not Ole out then?

We had a shocking form in his last 3 months after Mourinho = this is not his team, let him build his team and the judge him

Do you disagree with this? Practically every manager gets a full season and at least one summer transfer window before a verdict is made. Why should Ole get tougher demands?

A pretty shit first half last season = he can't compete with Perreira and Lingard, let him build his team

Again: do you disagree? Pogba out injured and no Bruno leaves us with a terrible midfield. At least at the time with Lingard suffering from depression etc.

In every game of his first season he made his subs at the 83rd minute = He doesn't trust his bench

We can argue until we're blue in the face about what is the right choice, but none of us amateurs can say that it was definitely the wrong decision. Ole is still careful with his subs, but it's not like we're suffering because of it. Quite the contrary.

A shitty performance and defeat from West Brom before Bruno arrived = he is still learning on the job, also can't compete with Lingard and Perreira

This is precisely the same as the second point on your list. Except it's significantly weaker, as it's isolated to a single game.

We don't qualify from the Champions League group because of a shit Turkish side and with two games needing just 1 point = part of the learning curve, shit players

Your entire point is framed in a way to make our CL performance seem as bad as possible. You could also frame it like this: we crushed Leipzig on aggregate, beat PSG once and were just a few inches away from qualifying. We should probably have qualified, but it's still one of the toughest CL groups I can remember United having in the last 10-15 years. Out of every failure to advance from the group stages, this was the least embarrassing by far.

Nightmare first month of second season with C Palace, Brighton and Spurs = no preseason

How anyone still can think that this is a poor excuse just boggles my mind.

 

[RUCK4444]

As an Ole-out since he first came here, I have to admit that he has done a decent job and the good outweighs the bad. I still don't think that he is a world class manager and a manager for one of the biggest club in the world, but what the hell at the moment he has earned his third season.

As for the Ole out crowd list you know that coin has two sides

We had a shocking form in his last 3 months after Mourinho = this is not his team, let him build his team and the judge him
A pretty shit first half last season = he can't compete with Perreira and Lingard, let him build his team
In every game of his first season he made his subs at the 83rd minute = He doesn't trust his bench
A shitty performance and defeat from West Brom before Bruno arrived = he is still learning on the job, also can't compete with Lingard and Perreira
We don't qualify from the Champions League group because of a shit Turkish side and with two games needing just 1 point = part of the learning curve, shit players
Nightmare first month of second season with C Palace, Brighton and Spurs = no preseason

As I said I admit that the good outweighs the bad he's done, the list is just for sake of it to counter yours.

All those points you’ve listed describe is the lows of the overall process of making progress.

What team wins every game and every competition? Let alone one that has been undergoing MAJOR surgery.

The same points you listed are ones that every fan would have been down about, the difference is some fans have patience to allow themselves the clarity of mind to understand there will be bumps in the road back to the top.

 

[keithsingleton]

Can you confirm whose interviews you can stand and why?

Ole's , he just doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Fortunately his action are speaking louder than words.

 

[Ole's screen]

Ole's , he just doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Fortunately his action are speaking louder than words.

What does that even mean? I think there is a fundamental divide about how complicated football needs to be. Some, like Pep, Arteta, Sarri, etc almost seem to get off on making football appear "so, so complicated" and it appears some fans and most football writers seem to swallow it hook, line and sinker; whereas Managers who usually talk in simplified terms about playing with confidence and freedom and working hard are derided as "not knowing what he's talking about". It's complete nonsense.

 

[Withnail]

Ole's , he just doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Fortunately his action are speaking louder than words.

This seems like your interpretation based on not thinking he's any good in the first.

He's not the slickest but I don't think he sounds like that.

Although, just to point out the other poster asked which managers you can stand in interviews.

 

[The United]

Ole's , he just doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Fortunately his action are speaking louder than words.

He should use "no doubt about it" more to make it sound like he knows what he is talking about.

 

[TheGame]

Ole's , he just doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. Fortunately his action are speaking louder than words.

He sounds like he knows what he’s talking about to me. No idea what you are basing your argument on.

 

[keithsingleton]

This seems like your interpretation based on not thinking he's any good in the first.

He's not the slickest but I don't think he sounds like that.

Although, just to point out the other poster asked which managers you can stand in interviews.

Well he didn't exactly come with a good track record for the biggest club in the world ( my opinion of course ) I think we signed him from the heart rather than the head. However, he's improved us and that's what counts. Hes learning more and more as he goes along. If he can continue then just maybe he can become the finished article.

 

[Karlos PFC]

.... so you're not Ole out then?



Do you disagree with this? Practically every manager gets a full season and at least one summer transfer window before a verdict is made. Why should Ole get tougher demands?



Again: do you disagree? Pogba out injured and no Bruno leaves us with a terrible midfield. At least at the time with Lingard suffering from depression etc.



We can argue until we're blue in the face about what is the right choice, but none of us amateurs can say that it was definitely the wrong decision. Ole is still careful with his subs, but it's not like we're suffering because of it. Quite the contrary.



This is precisely the same as the second point on your list. Except it's significantly weaker, as it's isolated to a single game.



Your entire point is framed in a way to make our CL performance seem as bad as possible. You could also frame it like this: we crushed Leipzig on aggregate, beat PSG once and were just a few inches away from qualifying. We should probably have qualified, but it's still one of the toughest CL groups I can remember United having in the last 10-15 years. Out of every failure to advance from the group stages, this was the least embarrassing by far.



How anyone still can think that this is a poor excuse just boggles my mind.

No, for now I'm not on the out camp. But I'm seriously expecting to challenge for the league next year. And spare us with all the possible excuses that are already starting to appear like "he wasn't backed last summer (which I don't agree) let's hope that he will be this summer".

Also our Champions League run with the exception of two games was pretty poor. There is no excuse for not qualifying at the time we had the upper hand in the group. Needing one point from 2 games and not getting it reminded me of the Van Gaal run when we needed to win Wolfsburg and we totally bottled it(deservedly so).

All in all as I said I think that he has earned his third year, but there will be no "rebuilding" excuses this time. Teams rebuild and develop all the time. The only teams that claim the rebuilding myth are the ones who don't want to spend (Juventus) and buy only free agents.

The same points you listed are ones that every fan would have been down about, the difference is some fans have patience to allow themselves the clarity of mind to understand there will be bumps in the road back to the top.

I don't mean to argue with you or anything like that. As I mentioned earlier I'm backing Ole for his 3rd season. But what you call patience others might call it blind faith in an unproven manager or overly romantic. As for these bumps on the road Tuchel hasn't faced anything like that and he got them to the Ch.L. final. Don't start telling me about the team he inherited compared to what Ole compared, cause there are a lot of posters in here that claim that since we're second in the league that equals 2nd best squad and so

 

[Hakara]

No, for now I'm not on the out camp. But I'm seriously expecting to challenge for the league next year. And spare us with all the possible excuses that are already starting to appear like "he wasn't backed last summer (which I don't agree) let's hope that he will be this summer".

Also our Champions League run with the exception of two games was pretty poor. There is no excuse for not qualifying at the time we had the upper hand in the group. Needing one point from 2 games and not getting it reminded me of the Van Gaal run when we needed to win Wolfsburg and we totally bottled it(deservedly so).

All in all as I said I think that he has earned his third year, but there will be no "rebuilding" excuses this time. Teams rebuild and develop all the time. The only teams that claim the rebuilding myth are the ones who don't want to spend (Juventus) and buy only free agents.




I don't mean to argue with you or anything like that. As I mentioned earlier I'm backing Ole for his 3rd season. But what you call patience others might call it blind faith in an unproven manager or overly romantic. As for these bumps on the road Tuchel hasn't faced anything like that and he got them to the Ch.L. final. Don't start telling me about the team he inherited compared to what Ole compared, cause there are a lot of posters in here that claim that since we're second in the league that equals 2nd best squad and so

Just wondering who you might seem suitable as a proven manager for united? Poch? Not even winning Ligue 1at the moment. As an outsider I'd say he's done a tremendous job getting rid of deadwood and starting a rebuild, all along having the players on his side, which is not easy to do.

Btw we're also getting a manager that has never really won anything, and still I'm excited for what Nagelsmann can bring to Bayern. Accolades aren't everything.

 

[Mainoldo]

G.Nev and Carragher chatting gems about managers right now on MNF.

Worth a listen to those who‘s heads are stuck in the sand.

Not a dig just saying the focus should always be on the going that next level. Good job this season so far for the current man though.

 

[RUCK4444]

No, for now I'm not on the out camp. But I'm seriously expecting to challenge for the league next year. And spare us with all the possible excuses that are already starting to appear like "he wasn't backed last summer (which I don't agree) let's hope that he will be this summer".

Also our Champions League run with the exception of two games was pretty poor. There is no excuse for not qualifying at the time we had the upper hand in the group. Needing one point from 2 games and not getting it reminded me of the Van Gaal run when we needed to win Wolfsburg and we totally bottled it(deservedly so).

All in all as I said I think that he has earned his third year, but there will be no "rebuilding" excuses this time. Teams rebuild and develop all the time. The only teams that claim the rebuilding myth are the ones who don't want to spend (Juventus) and buy only free agents.




I don't mean to argue with you or anything like that. As I mentioned earlier I'm backing Ole for his 3rd season. But what you call patience others might call it blind faith in an unproven manager or overly romantic. As for these bumps on the road Tuchel hasn't faced anything like that and he got them to the Ch.L. final. Don't start telling me about the team he inherited compared to what Ole compared, cause there are a lot of posters in here that claim that since we're second in the league that equals 2nd best squad and so

Well not to be pedantic, what I call impatience can also accurately be described as naive, spoilt opinions of fans too demanding for instant success to see the wood for the trees and notice the very obvious improvements the current manager has implemented since he arrived on and off the pitch, our consistent improvement season on season and the painfully obvious improved direction for the club.

Comparing managers in cup competitions is almost entirely pointless.

How many times has Ole beaten Tuchel? That argument is every bit as flawed as comparing them in knockout competitions.

Or perhaps compare the two initial 4-5 month periods each manager had upon their arrival in the PL? Again same logic. Ole wins them all except a cup competition comparison.

This is the same naive approach many take to comparing managers and subsequently underrating our own.

Nobody claims the improvements under Ole have been done in light-speed time, but the improvements have been there from the start.

There is a big difference between having ‘blind faith’ and being observant.

 

[always_hoping]

So funny that United are too good to not give City a proper challenge, but let’s just sweep under the rug that Chelsea and Liverpool are comfortably behind us, and Arsenal are out of sight in a bad way.

Incredible double-standards.

Absolutely.

I see Solskjaer talked about the 'margins' in football again and a big one was Uniteds Europa League progression last season. It meant united had 34 days between end of 19-20 and start of 20-21. United lost three of first seven league games this season but have lost one in last 27.

 

[redNATION]

So funny that United are too good to not give City a proper challenge, but let’s just sweep under the rug that Chelsea and Liverpool are comfortably behind us, and Arsenal are out of sight in a bad way.

Incredible double-standards.

I would say that Liverpool have come the back of a league and CL, with little to prove and an off season, Chelsea changed manager and could be about to win the CL and FA cup.

Finishing second and winning the Europa league, we’ve been here before. For me the test for Ole is whether he can kick on and challenge for top honours next season.

Let’s not forget, we were top of the league at one point and completely blew it, and comfortably top of our CL group and somehow blew that too.