Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It's funny seeing some of the same posters that lambasted Mourinho for finishing 2nd(with a higher point total in all likelihood) and failing to challenge(a better City side back then too) now defending Ole for potentially finishing 2nd as we got knocked out of the Champions League Group Stages the same season.

It's unreal honestly.

And I was extremely critical of Jose that season too, but this idea that we've extremely progressed in 3 years is simply nonsense. None of the underlying metrics truly support that nor do the results/point tallies.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

He's obviously not going to be running at 100% but the same applies to the rest of the team with the relentless game every 3 days schedule. You never see being burnt out as an excuse for say Maguire or Wan Bissaka on here.

Bruno has just been poor in lots of games including last night and part of why our midfield can't keep the ball.

They knew that Bruno and his passing statistics and possession are not great, that was why they were wary of buying him in the first place. That is why you desperately need Pogba in there, the fact Donny is injured as well is a double blow, as he could have slotted in there. There is no point having two players in there with him who cannot pass wind never mind the ball. That is why we need someone to replace the likes of Matic, someone who is mobile and can actually retain and pass the ball.

 

[laughtersassassin]

If Milan knock us out I think that'll be curtains for me with Ole, unless we miraculously win the FA cup.

It's been too long without a trophy. Jose got us to a 3 finals in 3 years didn't he? I hated him and he had to go but Oles "progress" is Massively overstated.

 

[Leftback99]

They knew that Bruno and his passing statistics and possession are not great, that was why they were wary of buying him in the first place. That is why you desperately need Pogba in there, the fact Donny is injured as well is a double blow, as he could have slotted in there. There is no point having two players in there with him who cannot pass wind never mind the ball. That is why we need someone to replace the likes of Matic, someone who is mobile and can actually retain and pass the ball.

Yeah it's a perfect storm at the moment. Getting a CM comfortable on the ball is more important than a CB in the summer for me.

 

[Cloud7]

Not to single you out, its just the most recent post with this being said, but in what way is Ole learning on the job? Do we mean learning what it takes to manage a top club?

If we're talking about learning to be a successful manager, thats where my issue is, he's been a manager for 13 years (same as Pep) - for example I think the likes of Lippi and Van Gaal only had a 25 year managerial career (SAF was a bit of a freak for managing so long) - I think we need to see the reality in Ole's abilities as a manager, being halfway through his managerial career I think its fair to say he's not going to suddenly change his spots and play entertaining football.

I love the guy, he'll always be a United legend, and was one of my favourite players, but he isn't the guy to get us playing an entertaining style of football (what I really want), or a winning style at that.

Good reminder of this. Ole is not some "Young and learning" manager. He's been around for over a decade. What he represents as a manager is laid bare and plain to see. At what point is he supposed to become this world class manager? It's not like there's some potential we're investing in at this point. Someone that's been a manager for so long should be on top of their game at this point.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Good reminder of this. Ole is not some "Young and learning" manager. He's been around for over a decade. What he represents as a manager is laid bare and plain to see. At what point is he supposed to become this world class manager? It's not like there's some potential we're investing in at this point. Someone that's been a manager for so long should be on top of their game at this point.

You know that people will say he has been managing the likes of Molde and Cardiff so needs to learn how to manage a massive club, not realising that that is precisely the reason he should not be United's manager.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Ultimately he can only be judged at the end of the season, so with that in mind if we don't finish second from here (and fairly comfortably second, at that) surely that would be a failure? Scraping into fourth by a point or two considering where we've been most of the season couldn't be seen as progress, could it?

Because that's the worry I have at the moment. I can see us slipping down the table and having a fight on for fourth place with a few games to go. I can see the owners being happy with fourth regardless of how we get it, but the fans can't be happy with that.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

The football we play under this guy is dreadful. Counter attack or nothing. I cannot wait for him to finally go and we get in a real manager.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Ultimately he can only be judged at the end of the season, so with that in mind if we don't finish second from here (and fairly comfortably second, at that) surely that would be a failure? Scraping into fourth by a point or two considering where we've been most of the season couldn't be seen as progress, could it?

Because that's the worry I have at the moment. I can see us slipping down the table and having a fight on for fourth place with a few games to go. I can see the owners being happy with fourth regardless of how we get it, but the fans can't be happy with that.

I am still having nightmares that two teams who finish outside the Top 4 win the CL and EL, so then it would be better if we got Top 3 or 2nd.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

With Ole's formation changes I got the feeling he was trying to figure out what "works". Now that he favours 4-2-3-1, he'll stick with it for the foreseeable future. Meanwhile, coaches like Tuchel will swap formation game by game to try to win the game. It's something he wants to teach his players how to do.

On a sidenote, one 'cool' thing some of these top managers do is to have multiple formations prepared for one game and you'll see teams switching back and forth during a single half. I think it was the Chelsea City game where this was really obvious. This and his subs is why I don't rate Ole tactically.

Last night's sub were awful with the exception of Amad and the 5-3-2 was poorly executed. We were doing okay in seeing out the game, so why switch things up?

Ole should stay in his lane instead of trying to imitate the tactical wizards. He's clearly not good at coaching different formations. I'm not even sure if Telles or Shaw were supposed to be the wingback, did the players!? Why bring on Fred when he's clearly out of form and is generally poor at quickly finding solutions when pressed.

Shaw has a certain flair and unpredictability that makes him a good fullback and unsuited to be a CB. At some point he had the ball in our box when we were 1-0 up and tried to to outplay the Milan players instead of taking the Bailly approach and hoofing it out the stadium. He's also not suited to be a wingback. A wingback is a winger when the team has possession, Shaw is not a winger, he needs space in front of him to be good going forward.

While I'm on the topic of hoofing balls, I absolutely hate how we play tiki taka in our own half instead of hoofing the ball to Martial. We know his hold up play is good and this persistence on playing out the back is clearly down to Ole's instructions. We really lack a leader at the back that can make these decisions on the fly. Lately, every team has been able to press us out of proper buildup. Our midfield is terrible in getting in a position to receive the ball and progressing it further up the pitch. I think it's down to a lack of ability/quality.

I hate how Tuanzebe and Williams get criticised instead of Ole when they barely get minutes. How do we expect young players to perform when the manager doesn't trust them? We've seen it took an older experienced player like Matic quite a while to start playing better. Why do we criticise Bruno, AWB, Maguire, etc, instead of Ole when they're overplayed?

 

[BusbyMalone]

I am still having nightmares that two teams who finish outside the Top 4 win the CL and EL, so then it would be better if we got Top 3 or 2nd.

I'm having nightmares we may not even finish in the top four!

Gun against my head I'd still say we probably have enough to get us over the line. But it only takes a silly result (say, against West Ham on Sunday perhaps) and we'll be fighting for the top four. That's why I think it's important that we solidify second and not just scrape into fourth like the last season. Because that would be a failure, IMO.

 

[arthurka]

What choice did he have with the injuries. He isn't going to throw Shoretire into a game like this. I didn't like the performance at all, but I cannot fault the choice of team. If the tactics were correct is a different matter.

This must be his thing, this isn´t the first time we absolutely fall into our own goal when we are trying to hold on to a lead.
Injuries or not this was very bad indeed.

 

[Foxbatt]

I really wonder if some people here support Ole more than the club?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

This must be his thing, this isn´t the first time we absolutely fall into our own goal when we are trying to hold on to a lead.
Injuries or not this was very bad indeed.

It is. It almost seems a mentality thing, that they just drop back through fear. Oh for the days we would get it up the other end of the pitch and try to put a tie to bed.

 

[Zlaatan]

The best team seldom lose 3-0.

I never said otherwise.

 

[BusbyMalone]

The thing is when we do get pinned back in our own half, I don't necessarily see it as us WANTING to do that or Ole wanting to do it, but more of us not being able to play out of the press. Last night Milan played really well and kept us pegged back. Our midfield was just utterly incapable of playing out from it. I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but often when it happens and fans immediately say that we were being incredibly negative, I see it as more incompetence.

Which isn't really a defense of Ole, obviously. I just don't think we're very good (most of the time) at playing out from the back and progressing the ball upfront when a team even hints at a high press. So yeah, I think it's more down to incompetence as opposed to it being by design.

 

[PoTMS]

I really wonder if some people here support Ole more than the club?

Some on here don't support either. They either are WUMs who actually support Liverpool or they want to be seen as "right" and morally superior to everyone else in the improbable event Ole becomes a success.

 

[Anustart89]

The result isn't the problem. Do you think we would have been happy if it ended 1-0 with such performance ?

That’s the big problem. It doesn’t matter if we’re absolutely shit, if the opponents score two own goals to let us win the game people are happy with the team. Just think back to when people weren’t overjoyed with us going behind in every bloody game because we came back and were on a good streak results-wise. They got shouted down and hounded as if not coming out of the dressing room until 30 minutes into the game and coming from behind in every fecking game was some kind of sustainable thing.

 

[AshRK]

The thing is when we do get pinned back in our own half, I don't necessarily see it as us WANTING to do that or Ole wanting to do it, but more of us not being able to play out of the press. Last night Milan played really well and kept us pegged back. Our midfield was just utterly incapable of playing out from it. I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but often when it happens and fans immediately say that we were being incredibly negative, I see it as more incompetence.

Which isn't really a defense of Ole, obviously. I just don't think we're very good (most of the time) at playing out from the back and progressing the ball upfront when a team even hints at a high press. So yeah, I think it's more down to incompetence as opposed to it being by design.

When you have fred Mctominay and matic as your 3 primary midfielders you are bound to be pinned back for the very reason that none of those 3 can make good forward passes. Matic at every moment was just giving away the ball so chances of us dominating the game becomes minimal. It's not like Ole would have told matic and Mctominay to just give away the ball. There was couple of moments that I clearly remember, one where matic had all the space to pass it to James who had acre of space but he had his customary 3 touches and then back passed to Maguire. Then another incident in the last few minutes where Fred had to make a simple pass to amad and move the ball forward, he just misplaced it giving Milan the possession which resulted in their corner and rest we know what happened.

Fred Mctominay have their uses but both are poor passers of the ball and that just kills everything especially when you are looking to dominate a game.

 

[rotherham_red]

Think Bruno looks burnt out because he has the pressure of needing to produce the goods every game, because others do not pick up the slack for him.

I think its moreso that he's the only fit frontline attacker/midfielder we currently have. Rashford and Pogba both being out makes that job much, much harder for him. This is why so many of us lambasted the transfer window last summer because we needed genuine first team quality and in almost every instance, we didn't.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think its moreso that he's the only fit frontline attacker/midfielder we currently have. Rashford and Pogba both being out makes that job much, much harder for him. This is why so many of us lambasted the transfer window last summer because we needed genuine first team quality and in almost every instance, we didn't.

He has to get Top 4 or he might struggle again to get what he wants. I just hope they have something up their sleeves, because without Top 4 Ole is never going to be a pulling factor. He has to prove he can compete. Think they are already worried about how Cavani is picking up injuries, so a striker might be needed as well.

 

[shahzy]

This was obvious to happen. Most of us who were ole out just waited. Great person, great personality, poor coach.

 

[rotherham_red]

Last night's sub were awful with the exception of Amad and the 5-3-2 was poorly executed. We were doing okay in seeing out the game, so why switch things up?

Ole should stay in his lane instead of trying to imitate the tactical wizards. He's clearly not good at coaching different formations. I'm not even sure if Telles or Shaw were supposed to be the wingback, did the players!? Why bring on Fred when he's clearly out of form and is generally poor at quickly finding solutions when pressed.

Shaw has a certain flair and unpredictability that makes him a good fullback and unsuited to be a CB. At some point he had the ball in our box when we were 1-0 up and tried to to outplay the Milan players instead of taking the Bailly approach and hoofing it out the stadium. He's also not suited to be a wingback. A wingback is a winger when the team has possession, Shaw is not a winger, he needs space in front of him to be good going forward.

While I'm on the topic of hoofing balls, I absolutely hate how we play tiki taka in our own half instead of hoofing the ball to Martial. We know his hold up play is good and this persistence on playing out the back is clearly down to Ole's instructions. We really lack a leader at the back that can make these decisions on the fly. Lately, every team has been able to press us out of proper buildup. Our midfield is terrible in getting in a position to receive the ball and progressing it further up the pitch. I think it's down to a lack of ability/quality.

I hate how Tuanzebe and Williams get criticised instead of Ole when they barely get minutes. How do we expect young players to perform when the manager doesn't trust them? We've seen it took an older experienced player like Matic quite a while to start playing better. Why do we criticise Bruno, AWB, Maguire, etc, instead of Ole when they're overplayed?

Firstly, Shaw has excelled at playing LCB mutliple times both this season and last. So no, it isn't that he's ill-suited to playing there. Telles was the LWB and in a 5atb, the 3rd CB can push on when needed. That's pretty much the basics of the system.

We brought on the players we did because both Bruno and AWB seemingly had knocks and went straight down the tunnel when they were subbed off.

The fact of the matter is we don't have the squad necessary to challenge on all fronts. We're also missing key players at the worst possible time Pogba and Rashford, along with Bruno have been our most important players this season and two of them weren't available. We now also have the situation where we have Greenwood as our only fit striker. Make no bones about it, we are in the middle of an injury crisis and we have to do whatever we can to come through this period with our results and morale intact.

 

[BusbyMalone]

When you have fred Mctominay and matic as your 3 primary midfielders you are bound to be pinned back for the very reason that none of those 3 can make good forward passes. Matic at every moment was just giving away the ball so chances of us dominating the game becomes minimal. It's not like Ole would have told matic and Mctominay to just give away the ball. There was couple of moments that I clearly remember, one where matic had all the space to pass it to James who had acre of space but he had his customary 3 touches and then back passed to Maguire. Then another incident in the last few minutes where Fred had to make a simple pass to amad and move the ball forward, he just misplaced it giving Milan the possession which resulted in their corner and rest we know what happened.

Fred Mctominay have their uses but both are poor passers of the ball and that just kills everything especially when you are looking to dominate a game.

Yeah, I mean I think we're in agreement here??

Our passing is pretty horrendous. We treat the ball so casually, and that's not just a Matic/Fred/McTominay problem, either. Nearly everyone on the team does it; it's very careless.

As for the bold, while that is obviously true, I don't like it when people say things like that, because that's not the accusation being thrown at him. The question is, what are we doing to improve on it. Because we're not great at it, and while there are probably occasions when we have played out of it, I think we can agree that watching us trying to play out of a high press a lot of the time leads to very painful viewing. And that's also when Pogba and Bruno are at it, as they also lose the ball very easily. It seems to be a systemic problem to me.

 

[rotherham_red]

He has to get Top 4 or he might struggle again to get what he wants. I just hope they have something up their sleeves, because without Top 4 Ole is never going to be a pulling factor. He has to prove he can compete. Think they are already worried about how Cavani is picking up injuries, so a striker might be needed as well.

I think he's proven that he can compete with what is essentially a first XI that has been comprised of players Jose either didn't rate or thought as not much beyond squad player level. Results and performances like this are a kicker, but that doesn't negate the fact that we have progressed markedly from last season, and that irrespective, progress is never a linear process. We will have ups and downs and will continue to do so because we are a young team.

We've had worse first leg results and overturned them, and I think we'll get the job done next week, but if not, then it just means that we have that extra time to rest which we haven't had for the best part of 9 months, where we've been playing every 2, 3, or 4 days.

 

[AshRK]

Yeah, I mean I think we're in agreement here??

Our passing is pretty horrendous. We treat the ball so casually, and that's not just a Matic/Fred/McTominay problem, either. Nearly everyone on the team does it; it's very careless.

As for the bold, while that is obviously true, I don't like it when people say things like that, because that's not the accusation being thrown at him. The question is, what are we doing to improve on it. Because we're not great at it, and while there are probably occasions when we have played out of it, I think we can agree that watching us trying to play out of a high press a lot of the time leads to very painful viewing. And that's also when Pogba and Bruno are at it, as they also lose the ball very easily. It seems to be a systemic problem to me.

I do agree coaching is also a problem. I can't sit here and pretend Players are the sole issue, Ole and the coaching staff are also an issue. Like I understand we did not have any attacking player but why go back 5 and have 3 mf who can't create. That just gave milan a boost that we are sitting back. It was poor management and undo all the hard work of getting away with a 1-0 win.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

The thing is when we do get pinned back in our own half, I don't necessarily see it as us WANTING to do that or Ole wanting to do it, but more of us not being able to play out of the press. Last night Milan played really well and kept us pegged back. Our midfield was just utterly incapable of playing out from it. I'm not saying this is the case all the time, but often when it happens and fans immediately say that we were being incredibly negative, I see it as more incompetence.

Which isn't really a defense of Ole, obviously. I just don't think we're very good (most of the time) at playing out from the back and progressing the ball upfront when a team even hints at a high press. So yeah, I think it's more down to incompetence as opposed to it being by design.

Couldn't disagree more. Maguire, Bailly and Matic had all the time in the world in the first half. Milan were marking our midfielders and cutting off simple direct passing routes to them. They were with happy with our CB's on the ball, because our CB's ain't Blind. So what's stopping them from hoofing it to Martial or laying it behind space for James and Greenwood when they're just passing it around to each other for 25 minutes straight? Ole's instructions and lack of brains and balls to go against them.

Firstly, Shaw has excelled at playing LCB mutliple times both this season and last. So no, it isn't that he's ill-suited to playing there. Telles was the LWB and in a 5atb, the 3rd CB can push on when needed. That's pretty much the basics of the system.

We brought on the players we did because both Bruno and AWB seemingly had knocks and went straight down the tunnel when they were subbed off.

The fact of the matter is we don't have the squad necessary to challenge on all fronts. We're also missing key players at the worst possible time Pogba and Rashford, along with Bruno have been our most important players this season and two of them weren't available. We now also have the situation where we have Greenwood as our only fit striker. Make no bones about it, we are in the middle of an injury crisis and we have to do whatever we can to come through this period with our results and morale intact.

Shaw and Telles looked clueless and we're interchanging constantly. I'm not even sure which spent more time in the LCB position, it was that big of a failure. The Bruno and AWB knocks don't warrant a formation change, especially not when we're not well practiced at 5-3-2 and we were doing okay. Do you know when we last played 5-3-2 without looking it up? Overall, we haven't looked good playing it. A couple of okay LCB performances by Shaw don't suddenly make him an actual CB, he's no Alaba.

This was obvious to happen. Most of us who were ole out just waited. Great person, great personality, poor coach.

We drew AC Milan away in a 2-legged tie. No need to talk as if we just lost 3-0 to a league two side.

 

[Leftback99]

This was obvious to happen. Most of us who were ole out just waited. Great person, great personality, poor coach.

What's happened?

 

[Counterfactual]

This was obvious to happen. Most of us who were ole out just waited. Great person, great personality, poor coach.

Modus Operandi exposed.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Couldn't disagree more. Maguire, Bailly and Matic had all the time in the world in the first half. Milan were marking our midfielders and cutting off simple direct passing routes to them. They were with happy with our CB's on the ball, because our CB's ain't Blind. So what's stopping them from hoofing it to Martial or laying it behind space for James and Greenwood when they're just passing it around to each other for 25 minutes straight? Ole's instructions and lack of brains and balls to go against them.

I don't think hoofing the ball to Martial is going to be conducive to success, to be honest with you. That's not a gameplan that's going to work. What exactly are you disagreeing with, though. My post wasn't a defense of Ole. I'm pointing out how bad we are at playing out from the back when under pressure, and how when we do get pegged back it's not necessarily down to us being overly negative but more to do with incompetence both at an individual level and a systemic one.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Unless we don’t finish in the top 4, these new roles don’t protect Ole they just emphasise who is responsible for what.

This nonsense that Ole’s rebuilding the club, changing our transfer policy and sorting out our academy is all put to bed now. He’s responsible for the first team, if he doesn’t perform and needs to go then club just moves on, manager isn’t the be all and end all anymore.

My question is, if Carrick and McKenna are in charge of training and now we have a committee in charge of recruitment, then what exactly is Ole doing?

Other top managers work very hard on the training ground, so I don't understand the extra work Ole is doing which exempts him from that. The fact that he openly admitted to not being a training ground manager was always quite weird to me.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

My question is, if Carrick and McKenna are in charge of training and now we have a committee in charge of recruitment, then what exactly is Ole doing?

Other top managers work very hard on the training ground, so I don't understand the extra work Ole is doing which exempts him from that. The fact that he openly admitted to not being a training ground manager was always quite weird to me.

Good question, cause he doesn’t do anything during the game either.

 

[AgentSmith]

It's funny seeing some of the same posters that lambasted Mourinho for finishing 2nd(with a higher point total in all likelihood) and failing to challenge(a better City side back then too) now defending Ole for potentially finishing 2nd as we got knocked out of the Champions League Group Stages the same season.

It's unreal honestly.

And I was extremely critical of Jose that season too, but this idea that we've extremely progressed in 3 years is simply nonsense. None of the underlying metrics truly support that nor do the results/point tallies.

That's increasingly my concern about the current state of the team. We definitely have made progress as a club under Ole but it feels like the main areas that we've improved upon have very little to do with what's actually happening on the pitch.

The formation of a transfer committee, the types of players we're looking to bring in, the systematic culling of a bloated squad, the overhaul of the youth team (some of the best talent globally being snapped up) and the positive man-management have all been great. But Ole could have contributed all of that in some type of Director of Football or Technical Director role.

What is he actually contributing as a coach? There's no consistent style of play after 27 months in charge and the problems that were evident early into his tenure (principally the lack of attacking fluidity and his in-game management) are as bad now as they ever have been.

I like Ole, and I think the importance of the positivity he's brought to the club is hard to understate after the emotional nadir under Mourinho, but it would be foolish to ignore how vital tactical coaching is to a manager's overall effectiveness.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I don't think hoofing the ball to Martial is going to be conducive to success, to be honest with you. That's not a gameplan that's going to work. What exactly are you disagreeing with, though. My post wasn't a defense of Ole. I'm pointing out how bad we are at playing out from the back when under pressure, and how when we do get pegged back it's not necessarily down to us being overly negative but more to do with incompetence both at an individual level and a systemic one.

Not conducive to success, long term or short term?

Because even the best teams in the world can get pressed into hoofing the ball being the only solution. Even Puyol would punt it sometimes in prime Barca (the Xavi iteration). The difference here is that last night our defenders weren't being pressed, they just didn't have easy passing options.

If it's down to incompetence, how do we solve it long term? New players? What do we do if we won't spend this summer? Because Maguire won't suddenly become Blind. And how do we solve it short term if we refuse to hoof it? Or do we just accept that even lower table teams are able to disrupt our build up for an entire half, as has happened plenty recently?

These are genuine questions I don't know the answer to, but I would like to remind you we relied on Martials hold up play successfully vs Pep's pressing machine recently.

I disagreed with your conclusion:

So yeah, I think it's more down to incompetence as opposed to it being by design.

and then I made the case for both. I have no doubt in my mind an English CB like Maguire considered hoofing it and then didn't because of instructions.

 

[el3mel]

Ah yes. Milan had a reserve team out there. While we were at full strength. If last night was a cup final and we had everyone available then Henderson, Bailly, Telles, Matic, Greenwood, Martial and James wouldn't be starting. Those players are just as much 'reserves' as the players Milan put out.

"Should've won by at least a couple". Pointless statement. They were mostly toothless in the final third. If anything we should've won by a couple if Maguire and James didn't waste those sitters.

And Milan should have had their first goal allowed but let's not mention that to not disturb the narrative.

 

[Deleted 112447]

It's funny seeing some of the same posters that lambasted Mourinho for finishing 2nd(with a higher point total in all likelihood) and failing to challenge(a better City side back then too) now defending Ole for potentially finishing 2nd as we got knocked out of the Champions League Group Stages the same season.

It's unreal honestly.

And I was extremely critical of Jose that season too, but this idea that we've extremely progressed in 3 years is simply nonsense. None of the underlying metrics truly support that nor do the results/point tallies.

They all do actually. Cd with pace has cost us, lack of a WR costs us in positional play. And we are at the point where we back ourselves to win against every team and be pissed off if we don't.

 

[BusbyMalone]

Not conducive to success, long term or short term?

Well, it's certainly not something you would want to do long-term. It may work as a temporary solution now and then (although I still don't like the idea of hoofing it to Martial), but that's clearly not how we should play going forward. Also, not really the point I was making in my original post

If it's down to incompetence, how do we solve it long term?

Well, ain't that the question. As is always the case, it's a bit of both. I've voiced my concerns about this manager before. I feel like he's done a good job overall but I'm not convinced that he's the man to take us to the next step. So while a ball-playing midfielder is something that is needed and will undoubtedly help us, I still think we should still part ways with the current manager, also.

These are genuine questions I don't know the answer to, but I would like to remind you we relied on Martials hold up play successfully vs Pep's pressing machine recently.

He did, but we didn't hoof the ball to him. We played well in that game, and despite the fact that we spent large swathes of it penned in due to their aggressive press, we did also bypass it at times and quickly transitioned up the field. And a lot of that was due to Luke Shaw, to be fair.

I disagreed with your conclusion:

But that's all my conclusion was, was saying how I don't think that us getting pinned back or "sitting back" is a result of negativity by the manager, necessarily. Not all the time, anyway. When I say it's not by design, I'm saying that Ole isn't telling them to necessarily sit back and defend for the rest of the game. It was basically said in response to people commenting on how negative we are. I don't always see it as negativity (although it is sometimes, no doubt), but more an inability to play out from the press which results in us being on the back foot.

Whether you think we should "hoof" it or not is kind of irrelevant to the point I was making. If you think we should, that's fine. But again, not the point I was making.

 

[Samid]

And Milan should have had their first goal allowed but let's not mention that to not disturb the narrative.

We should have had a penalty vs Chelsea.
We should have had a goal allowed vs Sheffield and they should have had their disallowed.
We should have had a goal allowed vs Burnley.
We should have had a penalty vs Fulham.

It's tiresome when the usual suspects dismiss major decisions that go against us in their post match rants but likewise are the first to bring up decisions that go in our favour. But yeah, let's not disturb that narrative either.

 

[Foxbatt]

Well, it's certainly not something you would want to do long-term. It may work as a temporary solution now and then (although I still don't like the idea of hoofing it to Martial), but that's clearly not how we should play going forward. Also, not really the point I was making in my original post






Well, ain't that the question. As is always the case, it's a bit of both. I've voiced my concerns about this manager before. I feel like he's done a good job overall but I'm not convinced that he's the man to take us to the next step. So while a ball-playing midfielder is something that is needed and will undoubtedly help us, I still think we should still part ways with the current manager, also.




He did, but we didn't hoof the ball to him. We played well in that game, and despite the fact that we spent large swathes of it penned in due to their aggressive press, we did also bypass it at times and quickly transitioned up the field. And a lot of that was due to Luke Shaw, to be fair.





But that's all my conclusion was, was saying how I don't think that us getting pinned back or "sitting back" is a result of negativity by the manager, necessarily. Not all the time, anyway. When I say it's not by design, I'm saying that Ole isn't telling them to necessarily sit back and defend for the rest of the game. It was basically said in response to people commenting on how negative we are. I don't always see it as negativity (although it is sometimes, no doubt), but more an inability to play out from the press which results in us being on the back foot.

Whether you think we should "hoof" it or not is kind of irrelevant to the point I was making. If you think we should, that's fine. But again, not the point I was making.

I agree with you. Ole is not telling them to pass between them. It is that we are not capable of passing it forward. Unless they do the movements and passing during training they are not going to be able to do so. Lots of smaller teams can pass better and have better movement off the ball than us but they do not win matches because they do not have the calibre of players that we have. I mean individual ability.
So it is a huge coaching issue.

 

[Deleted 112447]

We should have had a penalty vs Chelsea.
We should have had a goal allowed vs Sheffield and they should have had their disallowed.
We should have had a goal allowed vs Burnley.
We should have had a penalty vs Fulham.

It's tiresome when the usual suspects dismiss major decisions that go against us in their post match rants but likewise are the first to bring up decisions that go in our favour. But yeah, let's not disturb that narrative either.

They want the best for the club like all of us. I think these are people that want to believe that we can just change one thing and then all will be rosy again. People that would have sacked SAF in his first 3 seasons 3 times over. Children that want it all and want it now.