Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Gazza]

Eh, I don't see it. LVG put huge emphasis on youth too, for example. Gave countless opportunities to players like Rashford, Depay, Martial, Lingard etc. making some of them the heart of the team. I do agree in some aspects though - he is planning long term and his recruitment, despite being hit and miss, has also given us a gem in Bruno. That being said, I just don't see the point in keeping him around when the football itself isn't improving. There is far too many teams with great players and money now for purely expecting a great squad to be enough. The coaching is very often the difference - especially with major trophies.

I just don't see the need when you have a manager like Nagelsmann, who has knocked us out of the CL - and is within 2 points of Bayern, genuinely competing for the Bundesliga with a far inferior squad, being available this summer potentially, for example. All whilst playing better football than us too.

He has by no means been a mistake and by no means is he a terrible manager. I'd argue he's got traits he is very good at, man management, improving the mood and demeanour of the squad etc. but I just don't think that's enough anymore, unfortunately.

Good description of where I’m at too. I just don’t think a club of our stature can afford to have Ole, Carrick and McKenna all learning on the job. I don’t see enough in Ole to take us any higher, although I appreciate some good things he has done for the squad. I’m not hollering for his dismissal but can’t lie, would love it if we could find a suitable upgrade.

 

[MileStolar]

Especially funny when you consider all of the snobby remarks about Serie A here constantly. The league is trash and yet Milan come to OT with lots of injuries and look so comfortable.

The same Milan that looked quite uncomfortable against Red Star on San Siro 2 weeks before?

 

[Velvet Revolver]

I get the feeling he enjoys draws more than wins!

 

[rollingstoned1]

Still Ole in but I'm concerned at his game and squad management, it is the same as what it was post-Lockdown last season when he kept playing the same set of players again and again and put us at risk of both burnout and falling out of the top 4. This conservatism extends to his approach in subbing players as well, often leaving on the ones who he considers to be our biggest threats but are tiring/underperforming instead of giving those who are relatively fresh/underplayed a chance. I shall see how the rest of this season plays out but I get the impression he sticks to his guns at the risk of spreading us cruelly thin when I would have expected him to be a little more adventurous in this regard. Diallo coming on and scoring is an example, so too his complete omission of VdB when it's quite apparent that he could be useful in rotating Fred/Bruno when we are playing 3 times every week.

 

[yumtum]

Good description of where I’m at too. I just don’t think a club of our stature can afford to have Ole, Carrick and McKenna all learning on the job. I don’t see enough in Ole to take us any higher, although I appreciate some good things he has done for the squad. I’m not hollering for his dismissal but can’t lie, would love it if we could find a suitable upgrade.

Not to single you out, its just the most recent post with this being said, but in what way is Ole learning on the job? Do we mean learning what it takes to manage a top club?

If we're talking about learning to be a successful manager, thats where my issue is, he's been a manager for 13 years (same as Pep) - for example I think the likes of Lippi and Van Gaal only had a 25 year managerial career (SAF was a bit of a freak for managing so long) - I think we need to see the reality in Ole's abilities as a manager, being halfway through his managerial career I think its fair to say he's not going to suddenly change his spots and play entertaining football.

I love the guy, he'll always be a United legend, and was one of my favourite players, but he isn't the guy to get us playing an entertaining style of football (what I really want), or a winning style at that.

 

[Olecurls99]

That Pep record is the most ridiculous thing I see peddled around here. Both the club and Ole win feck all for beating Pep. I'm sure he's gutted sitting a fecking mile ahead of us in almost every regard.

Congratulations, he has enabled this team to compete in the big games because he sets up as the underdog anytime he plays a decent side as he is incapable of coaching a dominant style of football that will enable us to compete with them head to head.

He is over two years into his time with us and we still look no better against teams that don't give us a trillion acres of space to run into. Those are the games that win titles. Not whether or not you can win a few games against a City side who relentlessly attack us.

When do we start seeing some decent signs of progressive football? Most coaches don't stick around for longer than 3 years anymore ffs and we are over 2 in and still waiting for him to 'find his feet whatever the feck that means

Wake up and smell the fecking coffee, he's clearly out of his depth. It doesn't take 3 years to start seeing signs of football you can place any hope in.

He's not incapable of setting us up to attack. It's just the fact that Lord Pep has a far better squad than Ole.
We'll start seeing signs of progressive football when we get some of City's progressive footballers or footballers like them. Pep won't make Mctominay turn into Morita nor can Ole.

 

[Olecurls99]

This shouldn't be the barometer on how we judge a manager. Pep is on course to win the league comfortably regardless of results against us. Plus he has beaten ole in the big games when it came to semi finals in the league cup.

What about the next sentence?

 

[Olecurls99]

This reminds me of when we were mocking Liverpool for celebrating wins against us while we were walking the league.

Remember in 2009 when Liverpool defeat us home and away including 4-1 at OT and we didn't give a shit because we won the league anyway ? Yeah I remember too.

Your right. Let's just go crazy every year that we don't win the league. Let's annihilate the manager and throw our toys out of the pram every time we don't win. That's the type of fan I want to be.

 

[Jackal981]

Let me copy and paste my comment from other thread which sums up Oleball:

Pattern of our attack in nutshell. CB or DM pass to fullbacks. Fullbacks make a run, pass to our wingers who somehow are so far wide on the pitch like the 18 yard box is lava. Either they dribble and lose the ball, or pass back to our midfielders or fb because they are too far from the goal. Rinse and repeat.

Anyone want to add something ?

 

[el3mel]

Your right. Let's just go crazy every year that we don't win the league. Let's annihilate the manager and throw our toys out of the pram every time we don't win. That's the type of fan I want to be.

I will start first by not doing things we used to mock other fans for in the past, like considering having a good record against City as an achievement while they are walking the league. I won't like to be a hypocrite fan.

 

[el3mel]

We could've won 3-0 and it still would've been anything but easy. Milan were by far the best team on the pitch tonight.

People do seem to actually forget the fact Milan scored a correct goal that was disallowed for a handball that didn't exist.

Yeah we missed 2 sitters, but they actually put the ball in the back of the net and it was incorrectly disallowed.

 

[Olecurls99]

I will start first by not doing things we used to mock other fans for in the past, like considering having a good record against City as an achievement while they are walking the league. I won't like to be a hypocrite fan.

That was in response to claims that he was out of his depth. How can a manager with the only positive record against Lord Pep be considered out of his depth? What's the depth here? David Moyes and Jose Mourinho?

You might think he's not good enough but out of his depth is way too far.

 

[Jackal981]

That was in response to claims that he was out of his depth. How can a manager with the only positive record against Lord Pep be considered out of his depth? What's the depth here? David Moyes and Jose Mourinho?

You might think he's not good enough but out of his depth is way too far.

Are there 20 Peps in the league ? He lost to Sheffield ffs

 

[el3mel]

That was in response to claims that he was out of his depth. How can a manager with the only positive record against Lord Pep be considered out of his depth? What's the depth here? David Moyes and Jose Mourinho?

You might think he's not good enough but out of his depth is way too far.

Probably because those people know there's more to football season than our head to head results against one team. I didn't say he was out of his depth but this is a very weak response anyway. Did you also forget that Pep won the 2 cup ties he faced Ole in?

 

[croadyman]

People do seem to actually forget the fact Milan scored a correct goal that was disallowed for a handball that didn't exist.

Yeah we missed 2 sitters, but they actually put the ball in the back of the net and it was incorrectly disallowed.

Yeah we deserved to get beat tonight and please Nemanja tell Ole your legs have gone and you wish to move on at the end of this season to make this decision for him that this little trio needs breaking up

 

[Roboc7]

He's not incapable of setting us up to attack. It's just the fact that Lord Pep has a far better squad than Ole.
We'll start seeing signs of progressive football when we get some of City's progressive footballers or footballers like them. Pep won't make Mctominay turn into Morita nor can Ole.

It’s time to forget this idea that Ole is going to suddenly change into a different manager and have us playing progressive, attacking football.

This is Ole’s style of football, some of the personnel might change but this is blueprint of how we play. If people believe that is good enough then fair enough but all the excuses and pretending Ole is an attacking manager don’t wash anymore.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Your right. Let's just go crazy every year that we don't win the league. Let's annihilate the manager and throw our toys out of the pram every time we don't win. That's the type of fan I want to be.

You're right lets be satisfied even if we never win the league again. Let's never criticize the manager even if his greatest achievement is not being a toxic cnut. Lets pretend he's an attacking manager and has made good signings. Let's be that type of fan.

 

[tenpoless]

With fletcher and Mr. whatshisnameknowsUnitedforages being given their new roles, ole's future is safe. You could debate whatever but he wont leave next season. No chance.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Yes for you, you're talking about yourself only I believe ?

We were facing a very injury riddled Milan and they dominated us for the majority of the game. Yeah no, I honestly doubt everyone would have been cheerful here.

No shit Sherlock, when are people ever cheerful on here

 

[Water Melon]

Personally, I don't think we will finish second in the prem or win the EL. I am already dreading losing points against Moyesy and his men on Sunday. Players are dropping like flies and we are entering the most intense part of the season. Ole may survive even if we finish below top 4.

 

[Roboc7]

You're right lets be satisfied even if we never win the league again. Let's never criticize the manager even if his greatest achievement is not being a toxic cnut. Lets pretend he's an attacking manager and has made good signings. Let's be that type of fan.

Unless we don’t finish in the top 4, these new roles don’t protect Ole they just emphasise who is responsible for what.

This nonsense that Ole’s rebuilding the club, changing our transfer policy and sorting out our academy is all put to bed now. He’s responsible for the first team, if he doesn’t perform and needs to go then club just moves on, manager isn’t the be all and end all anymore.

 

[Olecurls99]

Probably because those people know there's more to football season than our head to head results against one team. I didn't say he was out of his depth but this is a very weak response anyway. Did you also forget that Pep won the 2 cup ties he faced Ole in?

No the cup games are included. There is more to football than head to heads and Ole is showing himself capable of that by steering us to our first back to back top 4 finishes since Fergie

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Unless we don’t finish in the top 4, these new roles don’t protect Ole they just emphasise who is responsible for what.

This nonsense that Ole’s rebuilding the club, changing our transfer policy and sorting out our academy is all put to bed now. He’s responsible for the first team, if he doesn’t perform and needs to go then club just moves on, manager isn’t the be all and end all anymore.

This is a great point. It has actually put even more pressure on him. Any bad performances and results are his responsibility and nobody else. He has to get Top four at the very minimum. I cannot now see a trophy. Other club sack managers at the drop of a hat and it hasn't done them any harm.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Comfortable? If Maguire wasn't a donkey this would've been an easy 2-0 win.

Not a logical assumption. Just because we scored 1 it doesn't mean because Maquire missed a sitter we would of had an easy 2-0 win. If Maquire had of scored that then obviously the whole dynamics of the game changes meaning it could just as easily mean a 1-3 win for Milan than a 2-0 win for us.

 

[Lewnited]

Good lord I want Ole to do well more than any other manager in the last 8 years but I'm just not getting where the supposed progression is meant to be, and why some talk like it's so apparent. We're on course for near enough the same amount of points as last season, and that could easily mean a similar 3rd place finish.

The difference between then and now is that we went over half a season with no Bruno, which overlapped with a long term injury for Pogba. That in tandem with a lot more injuries and a weaker squad in general. So of course we've picked up a few more points this season, it would have been absolutely criminal if we didn't.

But aside from that, where else is the supposed progression? To a man, every player has the exact same deficiencies (if not more) in their game as they did last season. Rashford still runs head first in to players, Fred still can't pass a ball, AWB still times his runs awfully, Martial and Greenwood have fallen off a cliff in their productivity and the list goes on.

We saw on countless occasions how poor our performances can be at the start of the season but we were able to grind out wins by Rashford or Bruno flicking a switch to get us going. However since Christmas we can no longer even recreate those 10-15 minute periods in which we were blowing teams away, and instead just sleepwalk our way through games continually looking less than the sum of our parts. This is without even thinking about soem of Ole's god awful subs.

We played against an AC Milan side that couldn't even field a full squad yesterday and got dominated at home. Another to add in a long list if stinking performances we've all seen this season. Performance wise there has definitely been some high points this season, but they are quite literally few and far between. That really doesn't bode well for a team we're hoping will mount a title challenge next season.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

No the cup games are included. There is more to football than head to heads and Ole is showing himself capable of that by steering us to our first back to back top 4 finishes since Fergie

With Liverpool being decimated by injuries we have the 3rd strongest squad in the league behind City and Chelsea so top 4 should be a necessity, not a luxury and something to gloat about.

 

[PoTMS]

And anyone blaming injuries, just remember up until last week, Ole would play largely the same team including Maguire, Rashford and Bruno in pretty much every game regardless of whether we needed to or not and wouldn't utilise his bench enough. Of course, eventually we would get burnt out.

 

[Leftback99]

And anyone blaming injuries, just remember up until last week, Ole would play largely the same team including Maguire, Rashford and Bruno in pretty much every game regardless of whether we needed to or not and wouldn't utilise his bench enough. Of course, eventually we would get burnt out.

Maguire and Bruno aren't injured though. It's players who have been rotated. Rashford was an impact injury.

Games like last night show exactly why he can't afford to rest our best players like Rashford, the drop off in quality is huge.

 

[Devil77]

We could've won 3-0 and it still would've been anything but easy. Milan were by far the best team on the pitch tonight.

The best team seldom lose 3-0.

 

[PoTMS]

Maguire and Bruno aren't injured though. It's players who have been rotated. Rashford was an impact injury.

Games like last night show exactly why he can't afford to rest our best players like Rashford, the drop off in quality is huge.

Ah, this excuse again. We obviously need 23 world class players like everyone else to be able to compete. Games like yesterday show our coaching team are not very good. Milan had a reserve team out there and comprehensively outplayed us and should've won by at least a couple.

 

[Leftback99]

Ah, this excuse again. We obviously need 23 world class players like everyone else to be able to compete. Games like yesterday show our coaching team are not very good. Milan had a reserve team out there and comprehensively outplayed us and should've won by at least a couple.

If you ignore the sitters we missed ourselves yes.

Greenwood, James, Amad, Matic and McTominay would also be 'reserves' at Milan. You can call it excuses if you like.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Maguire and Bruno aren't injured though. It's players who have been rotated. Rashford was an impact injury.

Games like last night show exactly why he can't afford to rest our best players like Rashford, the drop off in quality is huge.

Think Bruno looks burnt out because he has the pressure of needing to produce the goods every game, because others do not pick up the slack for him.

 

[Samid]

Ah, this excuse again. We obviously need 23 world class players like everyone else to be able to compete. Games like yesterday show our coaching team are not very good. Milan had a reserve team out there and comprehensively outplayed us and should've won by at least a couple.

Ah yes. Milan had a reserve team out there. While we were at full strength. If last night was a cup final and we had everyone available then Henderson, Bailly, Telles, Matic, Greenwood, Martial and James wouldn't be starting. Those players are just as much 'reserves' as the players Milan put out.

"Should've won by at least a couple". Pointless statement. They were mostly toothless in the final third. If anything we should've won by a couple if Maguire and James didn't waste those sitters.

 

[arthurka]

5 defenders and 3 DCM´s and no Mourinho.
Drillo seems to have taught Ole better than I thought.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Better win this tie. Honestly there is no good excuse not too.

We know under Ole we bottle the cups so far so I'm not holding my breath.

We need to see a big response and pray Pogba is back cause our other midfielders can't pass

 

[DomesticTadpole]

5 defenders and 3 DCM´s and no Mourinho.
Drillo seems to have taught Ole better than I thought.

What choice did he have with the injuries. He isn't going to throw Shoretire into a game like this. I didn't like the performance at all, but I cannot fault the choice of team. If the tactics were correct is a different matter.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Better win this tie. Honestly there is no good excuse not too.

We know under Ole we bottle the cups so far so I'm not holding my breath.

We need to see a big response and pray Pogba is back cause our other midfielders can't pass

Agree with this, Fred, McT and Matic are basically there to just be a bit of a nuisance, with the odd goal from Scott.

 

[laughtersassassin]

What choice did he have with the injuries. He isn't going to throw Shoretire into a game like this. I didn't like the performance at all, but I cannot fault the choice of team. If the tactics were correct is a different matter.

What I don't get is why Fred was the furthest forward of the 3? Surely swap him and McTominay.

Personally though at 1-0 you can't take off Bruno even if he needs a rest. Tal off Matic Dr Fred and we still have a bit of an out.

 

[Leftback99]

Think Bruno looks burnt out because he has the pressure of needing to produce the goods every game, because others do not pick up the slack for him.

He's obviously not going to be running at 100% but the same applies to the rest of the team with the relentless game every 3 days schedule. You never see being burnt out as an excuse for say Maguire or Wan Bissaka on here.

Bruno has just been poor in lots of games including last night and part of why our midfield can't keep the ball.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

What I don't get is why Fred was the furthest forward of the 3? Surely swap him and McTominay.

Personally though at 1-0 you can't take off Bruno even if he needs a rest. Tal off Matic Dr Fred and we still have a bit of an out.

Taking Bruno off was odd. Even when he is awful he can produce something out of the ordinary. Fred anywhere near the penalty area is a waste of time.