Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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I want to see him getting angry. I know he has it in him. People who seem nice can get pretty scary when angry.
 
FatherWolff said:
Yea. Or top management knowing he needs the boys to push on before their next brake. But you are probably right. He is an idiot!

Have a good weekend fellas! Try reading.
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What are you on? Working overtime to defend him on this one.

I'm not even Ole out. I'm waiting to see how the season plays out. We are In crap form though
 
laughtersassassin said:
What are you on? Working overtime to defend him on this one.

I'm not even Ole out. I'm waiting to see how the season plays out. We are In crap form though
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What I’m on? University degree on sports science. Ex Pro footballer and on a coach license. Seeing why he is saying what he says and tired of idiots..

But like I said. Enjoy the weekend!
 
b82REZ said:
But typing out a one sentence post saying OleOutters are all Karens made the most of your 5 posts a day?

You'll be stuck on 5 posts a day for a long time if that is your contribution to the forum.
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You talk about having a nuanced debate then don’t answer my question as to whether you only have a problem with people who are new to the forum?

It seems you only have a problem with newbies who like Solskjaer, like I said you haven’t criticised any of the long time members who’ve compared people who think Ole’s doing a good job to “deluded trump supporters” and “cult members” no answer for this? I’m on 5 posts a day because I’ve been on this forum a month and already have 5 likes, well on the way to becoming a god mode full member. I’ll even be able to post a lot in the gaming section like you soon, anyway let’s not turn this into a debate about how many likes I have on a football forum. I thought you wanted a nuanced debate?

The idea that newbies have somehow lowered the quality of posting on this thread is hilarious when there’s many long time posters on this thread who have said far far worse than me (none of which you’ve criticised).
 
Our most experienced coach at the club is Marcel Bout and he's the head of global scouting.
 
Nou_Camp99 said:
That's not fair at all. I haven't said that at all. I have never said we can't get a better manager than him. I have said who is there and can you really sack a manager who is 2nd place and has hit all his targets so far as Utd coach.

This squad isn't really capable of much more than top 3/4 finishes in my opinion. I think he's squeezed about as much as he can out of a lot them. If Pep was to hypothetically take over us in the summer he'd have to get rid of loads of them to play his style of football. Same applies to Klopp.

I get it that fans are frustrated and want PL titles. Time to wake up and smell the coffee though. The world's greatest head coach is across town armed with a much better squad and better owners.

If we bring in Allegri or maybe get Ancelotti from Everton.....can you honestly see us winning the league? Would we win it under Poch (even though he's now off the table)? I genuinely don't think any manager wins the title with this Utd squad. It's got too many weaknesses.
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Surely one of his targets was to go through the group stage in CL?
 
FatherWolff said:
Yes. He should 100% step up and give ourself a fair and real bashing! Focus on the negative and shift blame! Never mind our need for energy..

Ever wonder why you are where you are and never got in to management Minoldo?
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I wasn’t good enough to play pro ball and therefore never got a free ride into management.

But even if that was the case I probably still wouldn’t get a job as my face wouldn’t fit.

Anything else you want to know?
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
With 99 points he fecking would, in every single season bar one.

With 51 points and 14 wins, you have to go back 20 years to be 2nd.

What are you not getting?




I don't want Ole out, I just want you to stop chatting utter drivel. As for the points from a decade ago or 2 decades earlier, no shit. I'm talking about season to season when teams and the quality of the league change very little.

I'm happy we're second, but I'm under no illusions that a) we'll likely be 3rd behind fecking Leicester after the weekend, which would also give Everton a chance to go ahead of us, and West Ham a chance to go level with us, and b) 14 wins in 27 games will not be close to good enough next season to be second, it'll likely be back on the average position of 4th/5th, we need massive improvement just to maintain this position.

No, I didn't expect second at the start of the season, I expected 3rd with our squad. I didn't expect we'd be in a position where after 28 games we're going stride to stride with West Ham, Leicester and Everton. Let's hope we upset everyone at the weekend as keep those feckers in our rear view.
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But this is a different season altogether. The fixture congestion and everything means that teams are going to drop points. Its no surprise that apart from City, who have 2 starting XIs, everyone else is struggling. Bar 1-2 seasons in last 5-6 years, the team at 2nd almost always has 50 something points at this stage and even if we are 3-5 points short of 2nd by other season standards, blame other big clubs of dropping points and giving us the opportunity of being at 2nd!

For the past 3 years, we've been saying this same thing- once the big clubs return to normal, we wont be here. Well, maybe they are the ones in need of massive improvements in terms of manager and staff, if they're trailing to a side who supposedly wont get a job at amy of the other 19 PL clubs.
 
anant said:
For the past 3 years, we've been saying this same thing- once the big clubs return to normal, we wont be here.
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In those 3 years we’ve finished 6th, 3rd & well, we’re likely to be behind Leicester tomorrow and picking up points at pretty much the same rate as Everton and West Ham after 27-28 games.
That’s the point you need to understand here, we are pretty much matching those 3 clubs at present.

Where is it you think "we are" during those 3 years and now? I'd say we're the third best side in the league on average since Ole took over, probably on points accumulated too right? Have we moved forward from that or are we just treading water? We'll know after 10 or so more games.

Being 2nd for a chunk of the season means naff all, just as it meant naff all for Leicester being in the top four for 99% of last season.

So yeah, what we’ve been saying for 3 years is correct. We’ve done nothing so far to be shouting from the rooftops about and our form is worrying. A few weeks back and this predictor had us as clear 2nd place favourites, but it also has us as slight favourites vs. Spurs away, so.. it looks we're another poor result away from being 3rd, 4th or even bloody 5th, ergo... treading water or going backwards. It's squeaky bum time and there's no point denying that and burying your head in the sand about where we really are this season.

I've said time and time again, Ole could finish 5th and I'd still keep him if we don't have an exceptional manager lined up to replace him, sacking him for the sake of bringing in an Allegri would be a waste of everyone's time. That said, if Ole finishes 3rd with no cup on say 68 points, I'd also want him gone if we have an exceptional manager lined up to replace him. For Ole to escape my doubts that he's not "exceptional", I wanted to see genuine tangible progress this season, 75 points in the league minimum (just 9 more than last season), or failing that, a cup such as the EL.
 
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Matriac said:
Might be connected to us suddenly picking up a string of injuries in midfield as well as some attackers, leaving us unable to play the varied lineups we did before depending on the opponent.

Yes, lately hasn't been great, but there's also nothing saying we can't turn it around soon? Momentum, especially in such a tight season, is a big thing.
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You're saying that as if injuries just occur in a vacuum, but people have a tendency to conveniently forget that running his squad into the ground is a recurring theme with Ole due to his reluctance to rotate and reluctance to rest key players.

Three seasons in a row now people are blaming fatigue for loss of form, as if fatigue happens independently of the manager. How are we ever to become successful if the manager runs the team into the ground en route to semi finals only to fail there due to fatigue?
 
Matriac said:
The notion that people think this is true is what is ridiculous.
Ole doesn't do much of the day to day coaching anyway, so how would he be shown up by a coach while he's busy managing the players and the overall strategy with the youth teams etc?

Great leaders hire people who are smarter than themselves. But just because we don't have a Brazilian or Spanish name among the coaching staff doesn't mean we don't have good people there already.

McKenna is the one with the tactics, with input from Carrick and Ole. Phelan seems to mainly assist Ole with tasks, and Fletcher has joined on an advanced trainee type of role to get experience while using his experience as a player to help the team, a role that was available after another assistant moved from the first team to the youth team.

I'm not opposed to us hiring other coaches, but it's not like there's lots of options sitting around without good jobs already.

I'm curious to see if McKenna wants to stay in this type of role for many years or if he's keen to try his hand at managing in first or second division in a year or two. If so they are probably honest within the team and are tapping up possible replacements. The most important factor in succeeding is that the people in the team works well together. We don't need a savant rockstar tactical genius if they can't get along with the rest of the team. I personally don't want to see a Bielsa/Mou-type strict way of playing for us in the future.
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I just want him to accept that this little Utd old boys coaching set up isn't the be all and end all, he needs to be looking outside of the club for help because the trouble is with those guys is they aren't willing to challenge his methods at all
 
FatherWolff said:
What I’m on? University degree on sports science. Ex Pro footballer and on a coach license. Seeing why he is saying what he says and tired of idiots..

But like I said. Enjoy the weekend!
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:lol:

Should we call you "doctor" from now on?
 
Hellboy said:
You’re full of it, if you had any football education you would never support this brand of football and clueless tactics like bringing in 3 defenders in Leipzig while wanting to win a game of football

The out of his depths ones are clearly the manager, who does not even know what player to sub while he’s the fecking manager, and the deluded cult that follows him blindly in hope of some miracle

Go on and support your local club yeah they must play 10 x better than this shower anyway and will be less of a pain to watch :lol:

@Mainoldo has been consistent and fair in his views all along and has been proved right despite all the abuse he got from the passion and United DNA cult
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Anyone who doesn’t hold the typical “top red” blind optimism, borderline deluded view about Ole & the way the club is being run is met with some pretty nasty abuse on this forum. I’ve noticed it for a while. If you don’t think Ole is the man or Rashford is world class or point out the clear deficiencies in Bruno’s overall game then you’re branded an idiot & you don’t deserve an opinion. TopRedCafe.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Anyone who doesn’t hold the typical “top red” blind optimism, borderline deluded view about Ole & the way the club is being run is met with some pretty nasty abuse on this forum. I’ve noticed it for a while. If you don’t think Ole is the man or Rashford is world class or point out the clear deficiencies in Bruno’s overall game then you’re branded an idiot & you don’t deserve an opinion. TopRedCafe.
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Don’t know about idiot or top red, but if you state your opinion about people outside UK not rating Rashford as a special player as fact, then you definitely deserved the replies you got telling you how false your claim was. You then make other posts like this one talking about people branding you an idiot if you don’t have a borderline deluded view about Ole (again your opinion being stated as fact that people who rate Ole must be borderline deluded).
Your posts seem to demonstrate such a victim mentality, would fit in really well on RAWK.
 
anant said:
People really need to take a step back and just think with cool heads when was the last time a team at 2nd place in the league was criticized for results.

Just think about how ridiculous some of the arguments are. You're having one of the youngest sides in the division who, not many gave a chance to finish in top 4 at the end of summer transfer window, at 2nd place after 27 games. Well 3 years ago, we were 2nd in the league - I don't remember Mou Out going on in the background, certainly not because of the results. Some of us, who had turned against him, had turned because the underlying numbers were horseshit and we were reliant on a GK's shot stopping ability. City fans and pundits were sympathetic to City's slump last year. Pool fans were ecstatic with 2nd 2 years ago. Spurs were happy 4 and 5 years ago. So, what changed that suddenly a side that finished 32-33 points behind the champions the season before is expected to be at top? Did we suddenly buy some WC players? Or something else?

Most of us acknowledge 2017-18 as a decent season, not a successful one, but not a season where you can sack a manager on the basis of results. A lot of us were Mou Out, I agree and I was one of them, but a lot of it was because of the underlying data, the Sevilla speech and a lot of other factors rather than league performance. Compare this season to that one for a second to keep expectations in check - mind we were expected to put in a title challenge that season, unlike this one. In the league after 27 games- we were 16 points off top that season, we're 14 this one. We went out in QF in LC that season, we reached SF this one. In CL, we reached last 16, but we had a piss easy group and we were knocked out to Sevilla. This season, while we went out in GS, we went out against two teams who reached semis in the last season. Reached finals of FA Cup that season. We're already in QF this time, and have knocked out some very decent teams en route.

The argument that we were once top and now 14 behind City holds literally 0 value as City are having a better side, and on an incredible run of form. Eventually, it was always likely that they'd catch us, so getting disappointed over that is stupid. Also, the argument that people quote that we're 2nd only because others are shit is a horrible argument. By that logic, Pep has won just 1 league title despite spending a billion dollars, Klopp hasn't won a league title in England, and so on.

Then there is the record vs big teams. Games against bigger sides are always cagey affairs. While you can blame us for not going after it, people seem to forget that bar 0-0 vs City, in every other 0-0, we've had the bigger chances/best chance of the game Don't believe me, read Nick Cox's article on the Athletic today. Is it good enough? No, but it just doesn't sit with the agenda that "6-1 has destroyed our confidence". How about this, compare the average positions of our players vs those of opponent, or better still, compare the average positions of opposition players in their game vs us against their average positions in another big 6 game. If a game is finishing 0-0, there are 2 parties to blame, not just one. And bigger teams will sit back vs us for the obvious reason that on attacking transitions and counters, we're arguably the best side in the league, maybe even Europe.

Then is the low block argument. Look at every game from the start of this season, or how about last February, and tell in how many games have we dropped points to bottom 6 opposition, and then compare this number with say City and Chelsea. I don't think the difference is going to be more than 2-3 games compared to City. Teams drop points all the time.

Then there is the VDB and Amad argument - It maybe because VDB has not settled into our system, and he doesn't want to throw Amad into the deep end. He brought Mason perfectly, and honestly, it could have cost him his job, but I don''t think anyone can question his record of bringing in youth in a patient manner.

And lastly the defence. Does the defence look shaky? Yes at times, but this defence has conceded the 3rd least number of goals since the October international break. Has the team gone defensive in this time period? Only if you count the team with 2nd most number of goals as defensive.

Believe me, no Ole In fan is satisfied with 2nd or 3rd or SF exits, but it's a start. There are signs of progress - we generally are doing well in all cup competitions. Our underlying stats for the 1st time post Fergie place us in top 3/4 and rightly so. The team will grow, but it will take time. The expectations need to be kept in check. You don't ask a toddler who can barely walk to run.

/rant
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A long post on the assumption we are second. The truth is we are not going to be near second in 3 weeks time. After the Derby tomorrow we still need to play Spurs, Liverpool, Westham and Leicester.
 
Schmeichel's Cartwheel said:
Anyone who doesn’t hold the typical “top red” blind optimism, borderline deluded view about Ole & the way the club is being run is met with some pretty nasty abuse on this forum. I’ve noticed it for a while. If you don’t think Ole is the man or Rashford is world class or point out the clear deficiencies in Bruno’s overall game then you’re branded an idiot & you don’t deserve an opinion. TopRedCafe.
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Agreed and it‘s not like we did not want Ole to succeed.

We all wanted him to do so but he‘s just not good enough and those who are still supporting his regime are going to understand, what we understood months ago (personally I was done with him after Leipzig), the hard way because the only thing they can hold on to now is 2nd place which I predict will be gone in the next 3 games

But as much as the split was very much 50/50 I would say that the majority now wants him gone in the summer
 
Hellboy said:
Agreed and it‘s not like we did not want Ole to succeed.

We all wanted him to do so but he‘s just not good enough and those who are still supporting his regime are going to understand, what we understood months ago (personally I was done with him after Leipzig), the hard way because the only thing they can hold on to now is 2nd place which I predict will be gone in the next 3 games

But as much as the split was very much 50/50 I would say that the majority now wants him gone in the summer
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It is the fact that Ole brought up the Leipzig game to show our good form, completely ignoring the other Leipzig game.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
It is the fact that Ole brought up the Leipzig game to show our good form, completely ignoring the other Leipzig game.
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Yeah we won 5-0 against Leipzig that went all out attack and got punished in the counter in a game that counted for nothing at the end while being humiliated in the reverse fixture and could have been 4-0 down after 20 minutes

Give Ole the tactical genius a lifetime contract

He talks like a politician :lol:
 
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Giggsyking said:
A long post on the assumption we are second. The truth is we are not going to be near second in 3 weeks time. After the Derby tomorrow we still need to play Spurs, Liverpool, Westham and Leicester.
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Same delusional lazy attitude that our squad (and apparently our board) clearly have.

Second is already achieved, we dont need to turn up any more.

At this rate it's going to be an even more embarrassing capitulation than the CL exit or Ole's first season after he was given a permanent deal.
 
Hellboy said:
Yeah we won 5-0 against Leipzig that went all out attack and got punished in the counter in a game that counted for nothing at the end while being humiliated in the reverse fixture and could have been 4-0 down after 20 minutes

Give Ole the tactical genius a lifetime contract :lol:
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Also that he didn't seem to realise that Nagelsmann would make sure it didn't happen again. They put it right. We get a good result and glory in it. Also annoying is when we fail, it is always the same excuse. We aren't ready yet. There is a young manager in Germany who has taken his team to the top of their league again this afternoon.
 
anant said:
People really need to take a step back and just think with cool heads when was the last time a team at 2nd place in the league was criticized for results.

Just think about how ridiculous some of the arguments are. You're having one of the youngest sides in the division who, not many gave a chance to finish in top 4 at the end of summer transfer window, at 2nd place after 27 games. Well 3 years ago, we were 2nd in the league - I don't remember Mou Out going on in the background, certainly not because of the results. Some of us, who had turned against him, had turned because the underlying numbers were horseshit and we were reliant on a GK's shot stopping ability. City fans and pundits were sympathetic to City's slump last year. Pool fans were ecstatic with 2nd 2 years ago. Spurs were happy 4 and 5 years ago. So, what changed that suddenly a side that finished 32-33 points behind the champions the season before is expected to be at top? Did we suddenly buy some WC players? Or something else?

Most of us acknowledge 2017-18 as a decent season, not a successful one, but not a season where you can sack a manager on the basis of results. A lot of us were Mou Out, I agree and I was one of them, but a lot of it was because of the underlying data, the Sevilla speech and a lot of other factors rather than league performance. Compare this season to that one for a second to keep expectations in check - mind we were expected to put in a title challenge that season, unlike this one. In the league after 27 games- we were 16 points off top that season, we're 14 this one. We went out in QF in LC that season, we reached SF this one. In CL, we reached last 16, but we had a piss easy group and we were knocked out to Sevilla. This season, while we went out in GS, we went out against two teams who reached semis in the last season. Reached finals of FA Cup that season. We're already in QF this time, and have knocked out some very decent teams en route.

The argument that we were once top and now 14 behind City holds literally 0 value as City are having a better side, and on an incredible run of form. Eventually, it was always likely that they'd catch us, so getting disappointed over that is stupid. Also, the argument that people quote that we're 2nd only because others are shit is a horrible argument. By that logic, Pep has won just 1 league title despite spending a billion dollars, Klopp hasn't won a league title in England, and so on.

Then there is the record vs big teams. Games against bigger sides are always cagey affairs. While you can blame us for not going after it, people seem to forget that bar 0-0 vs City, in every other 0-0, we've had the bigger chances/best chance of the game Don't believe me, read Nick Cox's article on the Athletic today. Is it good enough? No, but it just doesn't sit with the agenda that "6-1 has destroyed our confidence". How about this, compare the average positions of our players vs those of opponent, or better still, compare the average positions of opposition players in their game vs us against their average positions in another big 6 game. If a game is finishing 0-0, there are 2 parties to blame, not just one. And bigger teams will sit back vs us for the obvious reason that on attacking transitions and counters, we're arguably the best side in the league, maybe even Europe.

Then is the low block argument. Look at every game from the start of this season, or how about last February, and tell in how many games have we dropped points to bottom 6 opposition, and then compare this number with say City and Chelsea. I don't think the difference is going to be more than 2-3 games compared to City. Teams drop points all the time.

Then there is the VDB and Amad argument - It maybe because VDB has not settled into our system, and he doesn't want to throw Amad into the deep end. He brought Mason perfectly, and honestly, it could have cost him his job, but I don''t think anyone can question his record of bringing in youth in a patient manner.

And lastly the defence. Does the defence look shaky? Yes at times, but this defence has conceded the 3rd least number of goals since the October international break. Has the team gone defensive in this time period? Only if you count the team with 2nd most number of goals as defensive.

Believe me, no Ole In fan is satisfied with 2nd or 3rd or SF exits, but it's a start. There are signs of progress - we generally are doing well in all cup competitions. Our underlying stats for the 1st time post Fergie place us in top 3/4 and rightly so. The team will grow, but it will take time. The expectations need to be kept in check. You don't ask a toddler who can barely walk to run.

/rant
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When? Jose 2nd was treated as some kind of badge of shame.

2nd with 15 pts behind city, we're united ffs.

But yeah. It's some kind of badge of honor these days.

Talking about double standard
 
Sky1981 said:
When? Jose 2nd was treated as some kind of badge of shame.

2nd with 15 pts behind city, we're united ffs.

But yeah. It's some kind of badge of honor these days.

Talking about double standard
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Isn't there a chance we could be 20 points behind City before next weekend? Progress.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Also that he didn't seem to realise that Nagelsmann would make sure it didn't happen again. They put it right. We get a good result and glory in it.
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Nagelsmann studied us very well and he destroyed us with his limited small squad in the second leg. If I was Ole I would be ashamed and embarrassed to lose to a baby coaching toddlers in the footballing world compared to Ole who has been a "coach" for 13 years with a squad cost 15 times the Leipzig squad.
 
The Mitcher said:
Who thought this team is anywhere near good enough to win the league? You must be deluded if you think that. We have proven to ourselves we can at least compete, but there's a difference between being competetive and being able to win. Otherwise Tottenham would have won at least one title under Poch if they were good enough to win the league. Next summer is crucial for Ole in that regard. However, I do believe we are capable of winning cups. Be that the FA Cup, Europa league etc. Ole could do with winning either one, it'll do the team a world of good, and also get a lot of criticism off of his back. He has won trophies before, as a player and manager, he can do it here.



I know that Fletcher used to play for us, but he hadn't been at the club for sometime. It's clear he wants to surround himself with able coaches.
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Then he should hire competent coaches who have experienced in coaching at top level. Not some ex player who had played for Manchester United. He hasn't got anyone there who is good enough.
 
Giggsyking said:
Nagelsmann studied us very well and he destroyed us with his limited small squad in the second leg. If I was Ole I would be ashamed and embarrassed to lose to a baby coaching toddlers in the footballing world compared to Ole who has been a "coach" for 13 years with a squad cost 15 times the Leipzig squad.
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We needed one bloody point. How hard is that to get one point? It was capitulation of the highest order. I am still angry about it.
 
Without jumping on any bandwagons, I just realised....

1: We're top of the league (Jan 2021)
2: We're top scorers in the league (Feb 2021)
3: We're second in the league (Mar 2021) ...
 
Hellboy said:
You know they are gonna blame the players and the management afterwards right :lol:
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they already started
Just take a look at the threads in the caf, city players prices and how can any team compete with that (like Klopp never won the league few months ago).
A month ago the caf was abusing anyone dared to say this temporary top of the league proves nothing at the moment as we can easily be 5th after 5-6 games. There were threads apologising to Ole in Januari ffs. How can you apologise before the season end ffs.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
We needed one bloody point. How hard is that to get one point? It was capitulation of the highest order. I am still angry about it.
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I couldnt believe we were that bad in that game. I said Ole must have on purpose did something to the team to make us look shit like that. was fuming.
 
I hope, just hope stupid Ed has a plan B and not waiting to react in panic if the ship sinks. Knowing Ed, we have no plan B.
 
Unfortunately if Ole does a good enough job to put us in a position to push on and maybe purchase the players we want, he'll keep his job.

I'd love for us to make a pro-active decision and get top 4, bring in a big player AND bring in a new manager to take us to the next level.
 
Sky1981 said:
When? Jose 2nd was treated as some kind of badge of shame.

2nd with 15 pts behind city, we're united ffs.

But yeah. It's some kind of badge of honor these days.

Talking about double standard
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I think it is just context.

We have not finished back to back seasons in top 4 since 2012-2013. If Ole does that this season, it is progress.

If the board then don't invest after that to kick on, they are achieving their target which is top 4 every season, with not enough ambition to challenge for the league.
 
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