Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Erm yeah, they erm definitely aren’t the only two ways to look at it. :lol:
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In terms of our squad, sure why not?
I mean when we break it down to simplistic terms, is the squad good enough or not good enough to be doing better than what were doing?

Sky1981 said:
Top 4 is only as good as who's the manager. If he's a fan favorite then it's a progress. If it's jose 2nd is a failure
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Its also dependent on the squad and how much has been invested.
 
UnitedSofa said:
So Liverpool should hire Gerrard as it's the first time in 7 years that someone other than Celtic have won it?

Or a better example would be Ranieri as he took Leicester to the title and 'broke the mould' should we say?
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You're having a mare here, mate.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Agreed. Sure Jose's best season we came sixth and won two trophies.

I don't give a feck that we came second and lost a final in the next one. That is much more a failure when you look back.
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Agreed, it was fun that season too. I think we played much better ( just missed soooo many chances. I think even Pogba was creating chance after chance for our players who were missing chance after chance).
 
dirkey said:
Again, I said he was forced into it last night, I'm not sure if I can be clearer on that point? I'm talking about generally, his go-to, is 2 defensive mids against poor opposition.

But you could change the shape if you really wanted - not saying it's what I'd do.
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Ah, must've misinterpreted that bit then.

I think you're overfocusing on the formation. Pogba has been in the pivot vs weaker opposition for a quite a while now.
What would happen if we played 1 holding mid in a 4-3-3 with Pogba and Bruno further up the pitch? Pogba would drop deeper to make something happen, making it a 4-2-3-1 again. We lack a creative type of DM for Pogba not to have to drop deeper. Also a 4-3-3 with 1 holding mid is more suited to a striker that likes to drop and involve himself, effectively making a diamond in midfield.

So I disagree that his go-to is 2 defensive mids, because I don't classify Pogba as a defensive mid despite being played in the holding role.

My preference would be a 4-4-2 diamond, but since Ole's been buying wingers left and right I doubt we'll see it under him.
Martial and Greenwood are out of form, so the thinking is we'd have an easier time beating the press with an extra man in midfield and we would give Pogba and McTominay more freedom to drive forward and score goals.

Rashford Cavani
Bruno
Pogba McTominay
Matic
Shaw Maguire Bailly AWB
Henderson​

Harry Harries said:
Running players into the ground by playing them in virtually every single game has an effect. Bruno and Rashford look utterly shot.
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Sadly I don't see much alternative. Bunch of injuries and out of form players.
 
The problem I've got is that we still look like we need a massive rebuild. Not when I simply look at the squad on paper, no. If I do that, it looks pretty decent, with about three key additions potentially taking it to the next level.

But then when we actually play football, it always feels like we should upgrade about eight players in the starting line-up. That we basically need a whole new team because the one we have is rubbish. We almost NEVER look convincing against anyone. And I just fail to see how that can change with a few transfers. For this team to go anywhere, every single signing would have to have the impact of Bruno Fernandes. No matter how good your recruitment is, that's just not realistic. But otherwise all we'll achieve is that we'll look disjointed and unconvincing with somewhat better players. Or those theoretically better players will regress to our level and won't look any better than their predecessors.
 
There isn’t a SINGLE manager in world football outside of Guardiola who would have us finishing higher than 3rd last year or second this year. And that’s the issue with the nonsense that gets posted about Solskjær. He gets spoken about as if he’s the worst manager in the league when it’s utter cock. If he was useless we wouldn’t get to semi-finals regularly, we’d constantly lose to the big teams, we’d be fecking 9th or something, not sodding second. He is getting what he should out of the squad.

The two best managers in the world are at our rivals. Both those teams have BETTER starting players than us. One of those teams is funded by a fecking state. We have an injury prone 34 year old as our best striker and Dan James is currently our best right winger. What do people actually expect? We’ve completely dicked up the last 8 years by blowing our inheritance on absolute twaddle. We then exasperated that by hiring past egotistical shit heads as managers and letting our rivals hire who we should have hired. There is no word in the English language to appropriately describe the incompetence of how this club has been run the last 8 years. Will Solskjær win the league without significant spending? No. But who the feck out there will? Rodgers? Ancelotti? What have they shown in their careers to suggest they can massively overachieve and beat Pep with the squad and resources he has? We need 4 starting players to challenge. It’s the same 4 starting players we needed last year. It will in all likelihood be the same 4 players we need next year. And we’d need those 4 players regardless of who the manager is. Nobody is turning a CM of Fred/Mctominay, a CB of Maguire/Lindelof and our front three into title winners. You’re in fecking cuckoo land if you think they are.
 
Mickeza said:
There isn’t a SINGLE manager in world football outside of Guardiola who would have us finishing higher than 3rd last year or second this year. And that’s the issue with the nonsense that gets posted about Solskjær. He gets spoken about as if he’s the worst manager in the league when it’s utter cock. If he was useless we wouldn’t get to semi-finals regularly, we’d constantly lose to the big teams, we’d be fecking 9th or something, not sodding second. He is getting what he should out of the squad.

The two best managers in the world are at our rivals. Both those teams have BETTER starting players than us. One of those teams is funded by a fecking state. We have an injury prone 34 year old as our best striker and Dan James is currently our best right winger. What do people actually expect? We’ve completely dicked up the last 8 years by blowing our inheritance on absolute twaddle. We then exasperated that by hiring past egotistical shit heads as managers and letting our rivals hire who we should have hired. There is no word in the English language to appropriately describe the incompetence of how this club has been run the last 8 years. Will Solskjær win the league without significant spending? No. But who the feck out there will? Rodgers? Ancelotti? What have they shown in their careers to suggest they can massively overachieve and beat Pep with the squad and resources he has? We need 4 starting players to challenge. It’s the same 4 starting players we needed last year. It will in all likelihood be the same 4 players we need next year. And we’d need those 4 players regardless of who the manager is. Nobody is turning a CM of Fred/Mctominay, a CB of Maguire/Lindelof and our front three into title winners. You’re in fecking cuckoo land if you think they are.
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I agree with this.
 
Sylar said:
In terms of our squad, sure why not?
I mean when we break it down to simplistic terms, is the squad good enough or not good enough to be doing better than what were doing?
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in terms of our squad, was it good enough to get out of the Champions League group stage, yes absolutely. Is it good enough to be achieving 75+ points minimum, yes.

Let’s not even get into the 320 million spend that Ole has overseen. Has it been good enough? My personal opinion is yes and that’s why I expect us to be getting 75+ points and not struggling as often as we do against shit opposition.
 
Sylar said:
I get what youre saying.

But im saying what we want vs what owners want is different. Theres no way Ole gets sacked for finishing top 4 again (so talk of him not being here next season is nuts). But in terms of the players, I think theres a understanding between Ed and Ole that we go for younger players who are hungry and can improve here. So we will go for that for the next manager.
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That’s what Ole is here to do, finish in top four until he eventually doesn’t and then gets sacked. All revolves around top four and people hoping next year will be our year once we sign a mythical list of players.

Nothing of any substance being implemented and just treading water. We shouldn’t be winning the league but we shouldn’t just be going round in circles.
 
Mickeza said:
There isn’t a SINGLE manager in world football outside of Guardiola who would have us finishing higher than 3rd last year or second this year. And that’s the issue with the nonsense that gets posted about Solskjær. He gets spoken about as if he’s the worst manager in the league when it’s utter cock. If he was useless we wouldn’t get to semi-finals regularly, we’d constantly lose to the big teams, we’d be fecking 9th or something, not sodding second. He is getting what he should out of the squad.

The two best managers in the world are at our rivals. Both those teams have BETTER starting players than us. One of those teams is funded by a fecking state. We have an injury prone 34 year old as our best striker and Dan James is currently our best right winger. What do people actually expect? We’ve completely dicked up the last 8 years by blowing our inheritance on absolute twaddle. We then exasperated that by hiring past egotistical shit heads as managers and letting our rivals hire who we should have hired. There is no word in the English language to appropriately describe the incompetence of how this club has been run the last 8 years. Will Solskjær win the league without significant spending? No. But who the feck out there will? Rodgers? Ancelotti? What have they shown in their careers to suggest they can massively overachieve and beat Pep with the squad and resources he has? We need 4 starting players to challenge. It’s the same 4 starting players we needed last year. It will in all likelihood be the same 4 players we need next year. And we’d need those 4 players regardless of who the manager is. Nobody is turning a CM of Fred/Mctominay, a CB of Maguire/Lindelof and our front three into title winners. You’re in fecking cuckoo land if you think they are.
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Think if Pep was in charge they wouldn't dare give him this squad to work with. It would be a lot better. They can walk all over Ole.
 
Roboc7 said:
That’s what Ole is here to do, finish in top four until he eventually doesn’t and then gets sacked. All revolves around top four and people hoping next year will be our year once we sign a mythical list of players.

Nothing of any substance being implemented and just treading water. We shouldn’t be winning the league but we shouldn’t just be going round in circles.
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We will just sign more players to be coached badly, then he will ditch half of them, when maybe he is the problem.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Was Ole still without half his coaching team last night? It is almost like this has had an impact.
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We've been sh*t with his full coaching staff. Maybe he doesn't chose to listen to the stand-ins. In fact the fact his coaching staff cannot be blamed this game is all on him.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
in terms of our squad, was it good enough to get out of the Champions League group stage, yes absolutely. Is it good enough to be achieving 75+ points minimum, yes.

Let’s not even get into the 320 million spend that Ole has overseen. Has it been good enough? My personal opinion is yes and that’s why I expect us to be getting 75+ points and not struggling as often as we do against shit opposition.
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Sure, thats fine. If you think the squad is good enough, then I dont mind you saying the manager isnt good enough and that we dont need much more investment
Where did you think the squad is currently missing to challenge for the title?

Roboc7 said:
That’s what Ole is here to do, finish in top four until he eventually doesn’t and then gets sacked. All revolves around top four and people hoping next year will be our year once we sign a mythical list of players.

Nothing of any substance being implemented and just treading water. We shouldn’t be winning the league but we shouldn’t just be going round in circles.
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I agree. But do you think two top 4 finishes is not an improvement on previous managers? I dont get the points argument because its not the same opposition and squads every season we play.
 
Mickeza said:
There isn’t a SINGLE manager in world football outside of Guardiola who would have us finishing higher than 3rd last year or second this year. And that’s the issue with the nonsense that gets posted about Solskjær. He gets spoken about as if he’s the worst manager in the league when it’s utter cock. If he was useless we wouldn’t get to semi-finals regularly, we’d constantly lose to the big teams, we’d be fecking 9th or something, not sodding second. He is getting what he should out of the squad.

The two best managers in the world are at our rivals. Both those teams have BETTER starting players than us. One of those teams is funded by a fecking state. We have an injury prone 34 year old as our best striker and Dan James is currently our best right winger. What do people actually expect? We’ve completely dicked up the last 8 years by blowing our inheritance on absolute twaddle. We then exasperated that by hiring past egotistical shit heads as managers and letting our rivals hire who we should have hired. There is no word in the English language to appropriately describe the incompetence of how this club has been run the last 8 years. Will Solskjær win the league without significant spending? No. But who the feck out there will? Rodgers? Ancelotti? What have they shown in their careers to suggest they can massively overachieve and beat Pep with the squad and resources he has? We need 4 starting players to challenge. It’s the same 4 starting players we needed last year. It will in all likelihood be the same 4 players we need next year. And we’d need those 4 players regardless of who the manager is. Nobody is turning a CM of Fred/Mctominay, a CB of Maguire/Lindelof and our front three into title winners. You’re in fecking cuckoo land if you think they are.
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Couldn't agree more.

DomesticTadpole said:
Think if Pep was in charge they wouldn't dare give him this squad to work with. It would be a lot better. They can walk all over Ole.
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:lol:

Pep would obviously grab the glazers by the cahones to give him more money. Ole is too busy playing bottom.
 
Jippy said:
Yes sure, every big signing is a big success and anyone could've taken a punt on Bruno but didn't, he saw something. Given SAF barely did any coaching, it's clearly not all a manager is judged on. The squad lacks depth and we need a clinical striker. For what it's worth I think Ole has steadied the ship, improved the squad and therefore made significant progress. We probably do need someone else to take us on a further step. I do find it laughable that some claim to be experts on coaching and what is being taught when no-one has a clue though. 'We're undercoached' has been the Caf meme of the year.
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When did I say every big signing is a success? That's obviously not true, Ole himself has made some big signings which have some huge question marks - see Maguire and AWB. All managers make bad signings. The point being, improving the quality of the squad through good recruitment isn't the signs of a good coach.

You're right, coaching isn't all a manager is judged on, not sure why you brought that up? I never suggested otherwise. I would argue it's the most important aspect for a manager given the climate in the top leagues/competitions these days, there is simply far too many rich teams with great players.

I agree with you that he has steadied the ship and improved the quality of the team and I also agree that we need someone else to now take this team to the next level by improving us collectively.

Lastly - you're right, we don't really know what happens in the training ground etc. all we can go off is what we see and simply put, the football on display far too often is not good enough and doesn't exactly inspire confidence or hope for the future.
 
Sylar said:
Sure, thats fine. If you think the squad is good enough, then I dont mind you saying the manager isnt good enough and that we dont need much more investment
Where did you think the squad is currently missing to challenge for the title?


I agree. But do you think two top 4 finishes is not an improvement on previous managers? I dont get the points argument because its not the same opposition and squads every season we play.
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Two Top 4 finishes is good if it is the start of something. If that is all are ambitions are then it isn't good.
 
Sylar said:
Sure, thats fine. If you think the squad is good enough, then I dont mind you saying the manager isnt good enough and that we dont need much more investment
Where did you think the squad is currently missing to challenge for the title?


I agree. But do you think two top 4 finishes is not an improvement on previous managers? I dont get the points argument because its not the same opposition and squads every season we play.
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Previous managers won trophies. The points tally is significant because we’re always around this level which is why we’re always battling for top four and nowhere near the title. Sometimes we’ll finish top four, sometimes we won’t but w’re just drifting along either way.
 
Roboc7 said:
Previous managers won trophies. The points tally is significant because we’re always around this level which is why we’re always battling for top four and nowhere near the title. Sometimes we’ll finish top four, sometimes we won’t but w’re just drifting along either way.
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The new arsenal :)
 
Mickeza said:
There isn’t a SINGLE manager in world football outside of Guardiola who would have us finishing higher than 3rd last year or second this year. And that’s the issue with the nonsense that gets posted about Solskjær. He gets spoken about as if he’s the worst manager in the league when it’s utter cock. If he was useless we wouldn’t get to semi-finals regularly, we’d constantly lose to the big teams, we’d be fecking 9th or something, not sodding second. He is getting what he should out of the squad.

The two best managers in the world are at our rivals. Both those teams have BETTER starting players than us. One of those teams is funded by a fecking state. We have an injury prone 34 year old as our best striker and Dan James is currently our best right winger. What do people actually expect? We’ve completely dicked up the last 8 years by blowing our inheritance on absolute twaddle. We then exasperated that by hiring past egotistical shit heads as managers and letting our rivals hire who we should have hired. There is no word in the English language to appropriately describe the incompetence of how this club has been run the last 8 years. Will Solskjær win the league without significant spending? No. But who the feck out there will? Rodgers? Ancelotti? What have they shown in their careers to suggest they can massively overachieve and beat Pep with the squad and resources he has? We need 4 starting players to challenge. It’s the same 4 starting players we needed last year. It will in all likelihood be the same 4 players we need next year. And we’d need those 4 players regardless of who the manager is. Nobody is turning a CM of Fred/Mctominay, a CB of Maguire/Lindelof and our front three into title winners. You’re in fecking cuckoo land if you think they are.
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There is a lot truth to all of this.

But....

I can’t speak for anyone else but my issue is not our results, league positions, or finishing behind city and Liverpool. I expect it hell I’ll accept it.
My issue is the shite football and I think that’s the same for a lot of others.

When Mourinho was here he was up against the same conditions. Finished 2nd and won trophies yet people loathed him because of our style. Just because it’s Ole doesn’t mean people are suddenly going to be okay with it.

The whole selling point of Ole being our manager was that he’d come in and be completely different to Mourinho and LVG. He’d take risks, he’s play expansive, he’d bring some of the old swagger back, he understood United fans need to see us play on the front foot.

At this point two and a half years in, I’m seeing the same pragmatic, cautious, unadventurous, tedious approach to games that I saw under LvG and Mourinho.
If we’re gonna sit back and watch city and Liverpool win all the big trophies, at least we need to go down swinging. Not pathetically drawing to the likes of palace and west Brom and barely even trying to win the games.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Two Top 4 finishes is good if it is the start of something. If that is all are ambitions are then it isn't good.
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Spot on. Same thing with this away unbeaten run, I'm sick to death of hearing about it because we've not only contuined to fall further behind City but have also dragged ourselves into another top four slog fest. Two wins in eight having played Sheffield, West Brom, Everton, Arsenal, Palace and Chelsea. Our only two wins coming at home to Southampton and Newcastle. Awful stuff.
 
Leroy The Red said:
There is a lot truth to all of this.

But....

I can’t speak for anyone else but my issue is not our results, league positions, or finishing behind city and Liverpool. I expect it hell I’ll accept it.
My issue is the shite football and I think that’s the same for a lot of others.

When Mourinho was here he was up against the same conditions. Finished 2nd and won trophies yet people loathed him because of our style. Just because it’s Ole doesn’t mean people are suddenly going to be okay with it.

The whole selling point of Ole being our manager was that he’d come in and be completely different to Mourinho and LVG. He’d take risks, he’s play expansive, he’d bring some of the old swagger back, he understood United fans need to see us play on the front foot.

At this point two and a half years in, I’m seeing the same pragmatic, cautious, unadventurous, tedious approach to games that I saw under LvG and Mourinho.
If we’re gonna sit back and watch city and Liverpool win all the big trophies, at least we need to go down swinging. Not pathetically drawing to the likes of palace and west Brom and barely even trying to win the games.
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Ole's job is to get top 4, whether some here like to admit it or not. If he thinks a "safety first" approach nets him an extra point across an entire season, he'll do it. Story of Mourinho's career basically.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
It has been, yes. But it has also been inconsistent, like the three previous managers. I don't think United win a game 9-0 under Mourinho or van Gaal.
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LVG? No chance.. we would be trying to get the perfect goal and end up with around 5-6.

Jose. I think Lukaku would of had a field day and probably a boring 7-0. But I don’t believe they wouldn’t have been high scoring. Playing the way Soton did and it being so early on. Was destined to have goals. But yes 9-0. I very much doubt they would have.
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Ole's job is to get top 4, whether some here like to admit it or not. If he thinks a "safety first" approach nets him an extra point across an entire season, he'll do it. Story of Mourinho's career basically.
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The problem is it’s literally starting to cost him games as it did Mourinho. So much similarities between their reigns. Probably the only significant difference is that we don’t have a story coming out every week about how much the manager hates his players.
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Sadly I don't see much alternative. Bunch of injuries and out of form players.
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Unfortunately managing a squad is a big part of the job, especially when it's a team competing for the highest honours. Out of form players and injuries are a part of the game and you have to account for it. The squad players haven't been given sufficient chances so anything other than Rashford and Bruno is seen as the end times. That's an incredibly risky strategy given the potential for burnout and completely natural dips in productivity. Mata and Van de Beek have barely featured and aren't even considered as options (and are now both injured). We've also been incredibly fortunate in the main with injuries this season so that excuse rings a little hollow. Is this the best we can expect out of this squad? I don't believe it is and I find it hard to believe anyone could argue the opposite.
 
Roboc7 said:
Previous managers won trophies. The points tally is significant because we’re always around this level which is why we’re always battling for top four and nowhere near the title. Sometimes we’ll finish top four, sometimes we won’t but w’re just drifting along either way.
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This of course.
The points tally is significant because it shows how many shit points you’re dropping to the likes of Crystal Palace Sheff United et cetera. Sure some years a few teams will be better but also in other years the likes of Sheff United will be significantly worse. But the last few seasons have seen City and Liverpool get almost 100 points and City look likely to get 90+ again this year without a striker, so the league isn’t this significantly amazingly one where it’s hard to pick up points.

The fax sadly are that he took over a team that had just finished with 80+ points a few months before, has spent over 300 million and we look likely for the third season running to end with less than 70 points.

I really worry that the idea we have of “progress” is simply down to us having a much more likeable manager, a much more likeable team, and a team that is much more capable on rare occasions of producing some incredible, fast, counter-attacking football that we all love to see.
 
Harry Harries said:
Unfortunately managing a squad is a big part of the job, especially when it's a team competing for the highest honours. Out of form players and injuries are a part of the game and you have to account for it. The squad players haven't been given sufficient chances so anything other than Rashford and Bruno is seen as the end times. That's an incredibly risky strategy given the potential for burnout and completely natural dips in productivity. Mata and Van de Beek have barely featured and aren't even considered as options (and are now both injured). We've also been incredibly fortunate in the main with injuries this season so that excuse rings a little hollow. Is this the best we can expect out of this squad? I don't believe it is and I find it hard to believe anyone could argue the opposite.
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Both Martial and Greenwood have been shit despite being fresh and receiving enough minutes. Whether Ole is to blame for that is not something we can say for certain, unless you (in general, not you) apply a result-based analysis.

Bruno and Rashford have had numerous very poor games where they ended up being the matchwinner with a moment of genius in the 2nd half.

But yes, I would have loved to see more Mata and VDB and Rashford and Bruno have potentially been overplayed. That's certainly on Ole, but it's not a big enough issue for him to want him "out" (not saying you implied such).

Leroy The Red said:
The problem is it’s literally starting to cost him games as it did Mourinho. So much similarities between their reigns. Probably the only significant difference is that we don’t have a story coming out every week about how much the manager hates his players.
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True, I would not have minded a loss if we had relentlessly chased the 3 points.
 
LovelyLittlePanda said:
Ole's job is to get top 4, whether some here like to admit it or not. If he thinks a "safety first" approach nets him an extra point across an entire season, he'll do it. Story of Mourinho's career basically.
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This is the real problem. Perhaps it's short-term and we'll be more ambitious after consistently securing top-4, but it doesn't feel like it. If top-4 is the long-term goal, and Ole and these players can deliver it, what we're seeing now is how things will continue to be.
 
Counterfactual said:
This is the real problem. Perhaps it's short-term and we'll be more ambitious after consistently securing top-4, but it doesn't feel like it. If top-4 is the long-term goal, and Ole and these players can deliver it, what we're seeing now is how things will continue to be.
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I am glad some fans can see this. The sooner we accept this, for better or worse, is not changing under current ownership and board the better.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
I am glad some fans can see this. The sooner we accept this, for better or worse, is not changing under current ownership and board the better.
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Agree that the board lack ambition beyond top 4. That is all they need.

If they did habe ambition they would have strengthened when we were top in January.
 
Sylar said:
Sure, thats fine. If you think the squad is good enough, then I dont mind you saying the manager isnt good enough and that we dont need much more investment
Where did you think the squad is currently missing to challenge for the title?
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Honestly, I think we lack serious quality on our right hand side, and despite being a superb one on one full back, I think AWB limits us massively. 50m feels a massive overspend. But if he is the future of that position then we seriously need one of the best RW's in the World ahead of him because having no outside threat from either full back nor winger on that flank is our single biggest issue.

If I had to pinpoint 3 positions it'd be RW, RB, CB in that order.

But I don't think Sancho and Varane would suddenly turn us into challengers, I sadly don't think it's that simple.
 
Jippy said:
Yes sure, every big signing is a big success and anyone could've taken a punt on Bruno but didn't, he saw something. Given SAF barely did any coaching, it's clearly not all a manager is judged on. The squad lacks depth and we need a clinical striker. For what it's worth I think Ole has steadied the ship, improved the squad and therefore made significant progress. We probably do need someone else to take us on a further step. I do find it laughable that some claim to be experts on coaching and what is being taught when no-one has a clue though. 'We're undercoached' has been the Caf meme of the year.
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Might want to do some light reading before making such a blanket statement, especially when it is inaccurate. SAF gradually brought more and more coaches to delegate work to but it probably wasn't until 2004 (when Quieroz returned) that your comment would be accurate. I feel like winning 8 PL titles, 5 FA cups and a Treble (not counting the super cups, league cups etc) before that time probably allows him that luxury however. As football became more about egos and man management, he adapted and followed suit whilst also having the humility to trust experienced coaches like Quieroz, Rene, Kidd etc.
 
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