ODI Cricket Draft: Mani vs Aldo @Wellington

Who will win the ODI?

  • Total voters
    18
  • Poll closed .
Aldo said:
But do we need to score at 6.5-7 rpo from the start?
Also the fact that throughout our top 6 no one has a SR less that 76
And the fact that we have players who love performing under pressure and have a great record in chasing.

It's a really tight game alright but these small factors in our favour are likely to turn the final outcome.
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I think it could be possible. Like I said, we don't have to go gung ho in the last 10 overs. The middle overs are massively crucial. Our MO will have a field day in those middle overs. We could also get easy runs from your set of 5th bowlers. On top of that we will rotate the strike really well. So without appearing to do so, we could have silently amassed a very good score.
The thing is apart from Bond, you really have no one else to depend on for the wicket taking burden. Gul's record in NZ was poor. Streak is a decent bowler, but not good enough against the calibre of batsmen we possess.

Yes, your team has a good record against chasing, but if the "Why I'll Win" points come into play, then you are potentially looking at the likes of Waugh, Symo, Streak and Boucher to carry the burden of the run chasing for you. I've already mentioned it before, don't rate Steak too much with the bat. So would you fancy the likes of Symo-Steak-Boucher in a run chase ? Will Waugh last that long for you ? I don't think Waugh will. He will get a very good 70-80, before Mushy takes him. And then you have to deal with Prime Anderson with his yorkers, McGrath with whatever he fancies, Fanie with the slower balls and the off cutters.

Agree it will be close, but I think our MO and the bowling will win it.
 
Anyways, I'm off to sleep. Dunno if I can find the time tomorrow to continue this. If I can't, good game Aldo and Varun.
 
Ijazz17 said:
@MJJ and @prath92. Since you both doubt Anderson's ability. Here's something for you lads.

Image I: Overall Record
ZAk4M7S.png

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Image II: NZ Record
1TJUdy1.png

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As you can clearly see, 2008 was a shit year for him. What bowler averages 70 ?!. From what I read, he suffered a severe stress fracture, so his performances suffered a lot. But 2013 was statistically speaking his best year ever (MJJ looking at you as you are the Peak lover). His record is incredible. And you can see from the second image his performances in 2013 in NZ were excellent. Even his economy was brilliant. A James Anderson like that can rip apart through any attack. The Swing will help him immensely.
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he has the tendency to concede way too many runs anyways going by his general record.

If we are going by individual games like this then batsmen like Yuvraj can't be discarded as he has a quick fire 87 off 60 in NZ too and also has another 50 in his first series. Being one of my fav cricketers, if such a Yuvraj turn up, then any score is Chaseable:D
 
Aldo has the slightly better batting thanks to Tendulkar but Mani has the better bowling without doubt which seals my vote towards.

Also, Muahtaq is not getting enough credit here. One of the few spinners from the subcontinent who has an excellent record in places like Australia and New Zealand. A quality spinner like him will make a difference.

For Aldo, Bond is world class but I don't rate the rest of the rabble too highly. Mani's batsmen should deal with them fairly easily.
 
prath92 said:
he has the tendency to concede way too many runs anyways going by his general record.

If we are going by individual games like this then batsmen like Yuvraj can't be discarded as he has a quick fire 87 off 60 in NZ too and also has another 50 in his first series. Being one of my fav cricketers, if such a Yuvraj turn up, then any score is Chaseable:D
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That was more aimed at MJJ tbh. Him and Aldo chose 96-2003 as Sachin's peak years. So I went and compared Anderson's, Gul's and Streak, peak year. None of them came close to matching Anderson. And what I posted wasn't an Individual game or two. It was his best statistical year in ODI. Gul's best ever average in a year was like 19, but half the games were against Bangladesh and Streaks was very good at 18, but the sample size is half of what Gul and Anderson had. But even then, Streak's best year is still nowhere close to being as good as Anderson's best year (purely in terms of Numbers, as you love your numbers :p).

And I agree, he will concede runs, but he's the only one in the team to concede runs, rest are very good at keep the runs down. And Anderson's natural ability to take wickets cannot be ignored can it ?
 
Don't think much of the argument that Fanie/McGrath/Cronje have Sachin's number. They've only got him out multiple times because of the very large number of matches they've played against him. I do like Aldo's batting lineup quite a bit more overall.
 
Akshay said:
Don't think much of the argument that Fanie/McGrath/Cronje have Sachin's number. They've only got him out multiple times because of the very large number of matches they've played against him. I do like Aldo's batting lineup quite a bit more overall.
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When the likes of Fanie, Srinath and Sachin himself have admitted to it, I really don't know what more to say. Everybody is just going by reputation alone. Ironically all the other games have seen stats play a part. The one game where stats are in our favour, bowling and batting wise, it get's ignored. Not sure what to make of such hypocrisy (Don't mean it towards you, saying in general).
 
Akshay said:
Don't think much of the argument that Fanie/McGrath/Cronje have Sachin's number. They've only got him out multiple times because of the very large number of matches they've played against him. I do like Aldo's batting lineup quite a bit more overall.
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They really havent, I actually posted the number of games vs the number of dismissals. The thing that is making me vote for team mani is the lack of a genuine fifth bowler for team aldo. Thing that will make the middle overs a lot easier for mani and co and ultimately win them the match.
 
Ok, this is probably the final throw of the card Dice(I hope that is the correct phrase Just realized Dice was the word I forgot), but Mani and me did an analysis of our bowlers vs his batsmen. Now, I am not going to suggest that all his batsmen had his number against one of our bowlers, but what it points to is consistency. And how likely his batsmen would fare against our bowlers. It is also fortunate that many of his batsmen have faced many of our bowlers. So here goes...

McGrath's (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)
  1. Sachin - 3.28
  2. Waugh - NA
  3. Younis - 5
  4. Bell - 3.5
  5. Yuvraj - 6 (Got him out for a duck.)
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - NA
  8. Boucher - 6.66
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
Fanie (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)
  1. Sachin - 4.25
  2. Waugh - 21
  3. Younis - NA
  4. Bell - NA
  5. Yuvraj - NA
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - NA
  8. Boucher - NA
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
Anderson (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)
  1. Sachin - 3.66
  2. Waugh - NA
  3. Younis - 5.5
  4. Bell - NA
  5. Yuvraj - 6.66
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - NA
  8. Boucher - 4.66
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
Oram (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)

  1. Sachin - NA
  2. Waugh - NA
  3. Younis - 8.5
  4. Bell - 11
  5. Yuvraj - 19
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - NA
  8. Boucher - 4.66
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
Cronje (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)

  1. Sachin - 10.66
  2. Waugh - 11
  3. Younis - NA
  4. Bell - NA
  5. Yuvraj - NA
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - 5.00
  8. Boucher - NA
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
Mushtaq (Mat/Dismissal Ratio)

  1. Sachin - NA
  2. Waugh - 3.00
  3. Younis - NA
  4. Bell - NA
  5. Yuvraj - NA
  6. Symo - NA
  7. Streak - NA
  8. Boucher - Never played against SA for some weird reason
  9. Gul
  10. Larsen
  11. Bond
 
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Symonds never played against one of our bowlers, so have nothing to go by for him.
 
MJJ said:
They really havent, I actually posted the number of games vs the number of dismissals. The thing that is making me vote for team mani is the lack of a genuine fifth bowler for team aldo. Thing that will make the middle overs a lot easier for mani and co and ultimately win them the match.
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Symonds and yuvi will bowl 10 overs for us. Oram and cronje will bowl 10 for him.
 
Also based on the All Time ODI draft thread, Aldo posted his team with Boucher at 8 and Streak at 7. So apologies for the change in order for those two.
 
MJJ said:
Yeah, my personal opinion so far is that you have the stronger batting. Your openers are superior to his ( how superior depends on the de villiers factor), his middle order is better but your lower order shits on his. In the modern ODI game, I think thats will result in more wins rather than having a solid opening pair, strong middle order but weak lower order. Although personally I rate raina a lot, wanted him but @Akash said he was shit. Always scores against Pakistan in tight games. Whats his recond like in NZ? @Mani @Ijazz17

Bowling, I would give team mani an edge. I think his bowling is more economical and will make things harder for you guys but there is the bond factor. He can completely wreck their batting line-up which has to be a big factor. Will vote tomorrow after sleeping on it for a bit but expecting a close match.
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His stats is NZ conditions is impressive,

filtered 2009-2015 10 8 3 319 110* 63.80 271 117.71 1 1 0 28 13
Innings by innings list
Runs Mins BF 4s 6s SR Pos Dismissal Inns Opposition Ground Start Date
66 49 39 5 4 169.23 5 caught 1 v New Zealand Napier 3 Mar 2009 ODI # 2821
13* - 8 2 0 162.50 6 not out 1 v New Zealand Wellington 6 Mar 2009 ODI # 2822
38* 22 18 0 5 211.11 6 not out 1 v New Zealand Christchurch 8 Mar 2009 ODI # 2823
DNB - - - - - - - 2 v New Zealand Hamilton 11 Mar 2009 ODI # 2824
8 23 19 1 0 42.10 3 caught 1 v New Zealand Auckland 14 Mar 2009 ODI # 2825
18 26 22 2 0 81.81 5 caught 2 v New Zealand Napier 19 Jan 2014 ODI # 3456
35 36 22 6 0 159.09 6 caught 2 v New Zealand Hamilton 22 Jan 2014 ODI # 3458
31 59 39 3 0 79.48 5 caught 2 v New Zealand Auckland 25 Jan 2014 ODI # 3462
DNB - - - - - - - 2 v Ireland Hamilton 10 Mar 2015 ODI # 3631
110* 141 104 9 4 105.76 5 not out 2 v Zimbabwe Auckland 14 Mar 2015 ODI # 3636
 
On an unrelated note, very sad to hear about Crowe's passing. Learnt so much about him in the Test and ODI drafts. :(
 
Ijazz17 said:
That was more aimed at MJJ tbh. Him and Aldo chose 96-2003 as Sachin's peak years. So I went and compared Anderson's, Gul's and Streak, peak year. None of them came close to matching Anderson. And what I posted wasn't an Individual game or two. It was his best statistical year in ODI. Gul's best ever average in a year was like 19, but half the games were against Bangladesh and Streaks was very good at 18, but the sample size is half of what Gul and Anderson had. But even then, Streak's best year is still nowhere close to being as good as Anderson's best year (purely in terms of Numbers, as you love your numbers :p).

And I agree, he will concede runs, but he's the only one in the team to concede runs, rest are very good at keep the runs down. And Anderson's natural ability to take wickets cannot be ignored can it ?
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Lol that's too much numbers even for me :p. Anyway I don't agree with this selective years anyway. Some of the best performances of Sachin McGrath Hayden and all came well after their prime.

Generally though Anderson has a poor record here. He did have a good series in 2013 but he is facing very good batsman here. But I agree that everyone else other than him seem economical, which maybe an issue for aldo for hos 5th bowler quota. Oram and Mushtaq do have good records here. So you have the advantage there.

Batting wise, I think both teams in their top 7 have 3 batsman with less than 30 Avg here (which I consider poor). Yuvi Younis and boucher for mani and Stewart cronje and oram for mani. Having streak who has a good record gives aldo an advantage there. Still finding it hard to choose. :p
 
Oh, sorry @MJJ. I got quite a few notifications yesterday, so might have missed a couple questions. Like Mani said, he averages 63 in NZ. Hayden averages 71. The highest set of batting averages both come from our team.
 
prath92 said:
Batting wise, I think both teams in their top 7 have 3 batsman with less than 30 Avg here (which I consider poor). Yuvi Younis and boucher for mani and Stewart cronje and oram for mani. Having streak who has a good record gives aldo an advantage there. Still finding it hard to choose. :p
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Thanks for giving us so many batsmen. :p
Oram could probably hit a few. Same as with Boucher. But I think the key is the MO. What good is it if Aldo's MO stumbles and Symonds and Streak and Boucher have to come into the game much earlier than expected ? That would be hard for any team.
 
We are in less pressure as we bat first compared to his batsmen against my bowler.His anchorman Younis Khan and Yuvraj singh, who he rely most while he chase got a poor average (19 % and 21 % respectively) in the condition we are playing now.These two batsmen much better if they where playing in some other conditions,considering my bowling line up this would difficult run chase.
 
@prath92 Why are you going by records in NZL only? Is yuvi a sub 30 player for you? I don't know how many matches he has played in NZL but doubt it's more than 15 so you're basically reducing his entire career to these 15 matches to judge him?
MJJ said:
Oram was more of a bowling allrounder though, compared to symonds though.
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Was he that much better though? The batters he would be bowling to must be compared with who our 5th bowlers will bowl to as well and the gap, if any, reduces further.
 
Boycott said:
The way I'm seeing it is can Mani's team put on a high enough score to bowl too. Aldo's line up is formidable (minus Bell :devil:). I think you're very reliant on Hayden to go big since he's the only one who can dominate the bowlers from start to finish. Your finishers are good but I'm not sure the main batsmen can do a good enough job to allow Raina and co to play their cameos.
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Kane Williamson -M.Yousuf -H.Cronje
We got the better middle order to grind those middle over spell against, Larsen/Streak and his part timers( A.Symonds and Y.Singh)
They don't have proper spin bowler to give variety in the middle overs.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...nership-for-New-Zealand-against-Pakistan.html

Cricket World Cup 2011: Ross Taylor and Jacob Oram's explosive partnership for New Zealand against Pakistan
New Zealand were 210 for six when Jacob Oram joined Ross Taylor at the crease. What followed was extraordinary.
The pair added 85 off just 22 balls, as New Zealand hammered 100 off the last five overs of their innings and went on to win comfortably by 110 runs.

The partnership is the fastest ever of more than 50 in a One Day International and saw Oram score 25 off nine balls, while Taylor contributed 55 off 16 balls and eventually finished on 131 not out from 124 balls.
 
Varun said:
@prath92 Why are you going by records in NZL only? Is yuvi a sub 30 player for you? I don't know how many matches he has played in NZL but doubt it's more than 15 so you're basically reducing his entire career to these 15 matches to judge him?

Was he that much better though? The batters he would be bowling to must be compared with who our 5th bowlers will bowl to as well and the gap, if any, reduces further.
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I would say yes, his average is much better as well.
 
Mani said:
We are in less pressure as we bat first compared to his batsmen against my bowler.His anchorman Younis Khan and Yuvraj singh, who he rely most while he chase got a poor average (19 % and 21 % respectively) in the condition we are playing now.These two batsmen much better if they where playing in some other conditions,considering my bowling line up this would difficult run chase.
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The same goes for Stewart and Cronje too though. Both have poor averages as well so I think overall its evened out.
 
Varun said:
@prath92 Why are you going by records in NZL only? Is yuvi a sub 30 player for you? I don't know how many matches he has played in NZL but doubt it's more than 15 so you're basically reducing his entire career to these 15 matches to judge him?
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Its more about the conditions. His average in Aus too is just a smidge above 30 so he doesnt seem too suited to these conditions. Especially with such good bowlers against him.
 
@prath92 and @Boycott , You two were the only posters here on the thread that contributed the most to discussions and are yet to vote. With a little over 90 mins to go, hope you guys will vote.
 
prath92 said:
The same goes for Stewart and Cronje too though. Both have poor averages as well so I think overall its evened out.
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We never say Stewart got an huge role to play here he's more a support cast to Hayden, his main responsibility is to see out those early spells.
And again H.cronje record at ZN condition is not that encouraging compared to his over all career stats but we are not chasing the game here and where has Y.Singh got huge responsibility on his shoulder against our bowling line up.
 
Mani said:
We never say Stewart got an huge role to play here he's more a support cast to Hayden, his main responsibility is to see out those early spells.
And again H.cronje record at ZN condition is not that encouraging compared to his over all career stats but we are not chasing the game here and where has Y.Singh got huge responsibility on his shoulder against our bowling line up.
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stewart may not be required but it would take a lot to see off the opening spell by Bond. I get your point about Yuvi but again he has batsmen like Bell, waugh and Sachin before him and following him are Symonds and streak. So I dont think that he will be that much pressurized either.

@Ijazz17 i still dont know who to vote for :p
 
I have gone with Aldo in the end. I flip-flopped on who is better. Both have some very strong poinnts and some weaknesses. In the end, I thought Aldo's team has just enough in them to win this.
 
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