That's dedication
Imagine how much detail we'll see if Aldo gets to the final
Imagine how much detail we'll see if Aldo gets to the final
ODI Cricket Draft: Mani vs Aldo @Wellington
- Thread starter Skills
- Start date
The God of One-Day Cricket
"There will be comparisons with other greats in Test cricket, and you will be a chapter in its history, but with the one-dayer, you are its history, in a sense, certainly for India, where you played in more than half the games (463 out of 809). The team had played a mere 165 games before you started, and it is a measure of the impact you had that there were only 17 centuries scored by then. India made a century every 9.70 games. After you started, that number comes down dramatically, to one every 3.52 games. And since that first century, in Colombo, it comes down even further, to one every 3.23 games. To think that you started with two ducks."
" I couldn't believe how you went after Glenn McGrath in Nairobi. I must have watched that clip 50 times but understood it more when you told me you wanted to get him angry, that on a moist wicket his line-and-length routine would have won them the game. That pull shot is as fresh in the memory as that first cover drive off Wasim Akram in the 2003 World Cup when you took strike because you thought the great man would have too many tricks for Sehwag."
@Mani @Ijazz17 There's one for you:
The draft takes a player's peak as an account of his ability, let's look at Tendulkar's peak:
Years: 1996-2003
Matches: 188
Runs: 9473
Average: 49.08
Strike Rate: 89.73
100s: 32
50s: 42
That is a SEVEN YEAR peak, a peak that included three world cups and several key performances like the Sharjah ones, the Centurian one and others. A period that had some of the finest bowlers of all time bowling at him constantly yet he made one record after another, some of them are:
Most One-Day Internationals: 463
Most Man of the Match awards: 62
Most Man of the Series awards: 15
Longest ODI career: 22 years 91 days
Only one to accomplish rare ODI triple: 15000 runs (18426), 100 wickets (154) and 100 catches (140)
Most ODI runs: 18426 (ave.44.83) in 463 matches
Most ODI centuries: 49
Most hundreds against any team: 9 vs Australia
Only batsman to register 8 or more hundreds against two nations: 9 vs Australia and 8 vs Sri Lanka
Most 50-plus innings: 195 (49 centuries and 96 fifties)
Most runs in a calendar year: 1894 (ave.65.31) in 34 matches in 1998
Most hundreds in a calendar year: 9 in 34 matches in 1998
Most times to score 1000 runs in a calendar year: 7 times
Most 90s in a career: 18
Most runs against Australia: 3077 at an average of 44.59 in 71 matches
Most runs against Sri Lanka: 3113 (ave.43.84) in 84 matches.
Most runs against South Africa: 2001 runs at an average of 35.73 in 57 matches
Most runs against Pakistan: 2526 (ave.40.09) in 69 matches
First batsman to score an ODI double hundred.
Most runs in World Cups: 2278 runs at an average of 56.95 in 45 matches
Most centuries in World Cups: 6 in 44 innings
Most runs in a single World Cup: 673 at an average of 61.18 in 11 matches in 2002-03
These videos.Aldo you had never mentioned your Captain mate.
Tendulkar's peak can be summed up by desert storm. It doesn't matter who the attack is when he plays well.
Tbf you can say that about everyone, his quality was that he had more on days than anyone else.
I don't necessarily agree. His quality was also his mental state. You can say he single handedly changed the mentality of Indian cricket, and until the 2000s was a one man team. If he got out, the team instantly lost in most cases. No other ODI great has had that sort of pressure. He didn't have more "on" days. He was simply better than everybody bar Viv in ODIs IMO. Him and Viv are equal. None of the modern ODI greats (Kohli/ABD etc.) have to deal with that sort of pressure everyday. You have to account for it.
Didn't really have as much time as I would have hoped so did the best I could. Loads of remaining talking points. I'll get more involved in some time.That's dedication
Imagine how much detail we'll see if Aldo gets to the final
The whole peak thing is very subjective @Aldo . For example, if you look at Anderson's career, with the exception of 2008 which was a shit year for him (He was returning from some sort of back surgery/injury from what I read), his record is stellar. But I don't know how to judge what his peak is. I can just pick a bunch of years that suits my agenda and then claim that's his peak. It's not like football where you can see a clear decline in a player's ability or physicality.
And even in that "1996-2003 Peak" that you claim, McGrath, Fanie and Cronje have still had the better of him. Dismissing Sachin in the first over of a World Cup final with a huge target to chase, was a shattering moment for every Indian. And this is an All Time draft, so the imaginary pressure is just as high. Sachin is one of my all time favourite's. And like we said in the Write-up, he's a God to many, but he's also a God with weaknesses.
And even in that "1996-2003 Peak" that you claim, McGrath, Fanie and Cronje have still had the better of him. Dismissing Sachin in the first over of a World Cup final with a huge target to chase, was a shattering moment for every Indian. And this is an All Time draft, so the imaginary pressure is just as high. Sachin is one of my all time favourite's. And like we said in the Write-up, he's a God to many, but he's also a God with weaknesses.
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What is the target you are likely to set for me in this game?
And Ando's team is relying heavily on the explosive start his openers make, with a solid innings in the middle and then the grand finish at the end. But that's not going to happen. Of the top 6, the only players I can imagine having a good game here for them are his two Aussie mates. His 3-4 is quite weak and Yuvraj may have to make his appearance much sooner than expected. Add to this, Yuvi's record is not so great, and it is really an uphill task for Team Ando to chase the game.
Only on the Caf cricket draft could this be said about a batting attack that includes Sachin and Yuvraj. Can't even imagine either having a good game eh Ijazz?
Honestly, I have no idea. There have been games with low scores and those with High scores. So I am very Honest in saying that I don't know. We mentioned in the write-up (Which apparently no one bothers to read) we could have what it takes to get a score over 300.
You have to look at the context mate. I don't deny they are fantastic cricketers. But to think they are absolutely flawless and can never be outdone/outsmarted is also a little over the top don't you think ?Only on the Caf cricket draft could this be said about a batting attack that includes Sachin and Yuvraj. Can't even imagine either having a good game eh Ijazz?
Definitely agree, and he had to handle that responsibility and attention ever since he was a teen. Was one a kind.
@Mani edging it for me on face value ie just basing on team line ups.
Would be nice for the six who already voted to explain their decision
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this. I'm not talking in the context of the game, but in general. Pressure in not quantifiable by any means and it is how a person takes it that matters. Just because the likes of AbD and Kohli handle that pressure differently to how the likes of Sachin dealt with it, doesn't mean they are worse than him at dealing with it. If Sachin lost a game for India, how many Indians do you think would backlash ? And if Kohli did the same, what do you think the response would be ?
I don't see anyone calling Sachin or yuvraj flawless or invincible. It's you who went the full hilt the other way by saying the only players you could even imagine having a good game were waugh and symonds.
We were a 1 man team during most of Sachin's career. Sachin at the wicket = win, Sachin out = loss. None of Kohli, Dhoni, and etc have that kind of pressure. NM isn't referring to how they deal with pressure but to the insane pressure in itself.
Don't think I was clear in what I said - None of them had to deal with AS MUCH pressure and responsibility as he did. Neither are a one man team.
Mani's batting
Top 5 are good except probably Stewart who is poor here. But Hayden on his own is very dangerous too. For me though Stewart is a weaklink. Cronje also does not have a good record here. Raina is a decent batsman here and Oram is capable of lower order hitting too but tail starts from 8 and none of the tailenders are going to offer any resistance imo.
Aldo's bowling
Bond will be key here. Umar Gul struggled in Aus and NZ so I don't think he would be able to use the conditions much. Streak was decent in Aus so he maybe a little effective. After this Larsen is good enough to keep it very tight in the middle overs and between Sachin Yuvraj Symonds and Waugh they have 10 decent overs.
Aldo's batting
Waugh and Sachin are two world class openers. They have two very good bowlers up against them but it would be naive to say that they will be easily dismissed. They are quite sensible batsmen and may end up not getting dismissed to them at all. I don't really rate bell but he has a decent record in NZ and is capable of playing a supporting role to one of the openers. Neither Younis not Yuvraj seems to have a decent record here though. Symonds is a very very capable batsman as well and Boucher and streak are very very industrious batsmen well capable of lower order hitting.
Mani's Bowling
Both McGrath and de villiers are top bowlers who will keep it tight early on. Though Glenn's economy here is about 4.2 and fanie's is 4.3 here (which in itself is a very good economy). Anderson again has a very poor record here but has a slightly better record in Aus (but poor economy) so he will probably go for runs. Mushtaq Ahmed seems to have a decent record here though I don't rate him much either and Jacob oram will keep it tight though I don't think he would take a lot of wickets going by his average.
Overall I think both batting lineups have 2 batsmen who have poor records here but the presence of Sachin and Waugh uptop and a slightly deeper batting gives aldo a slight edge. Bowling wise Bond is very key here but both have a bowler each who will struggle here with economy. I think mani probably edges it there. Will wait before I vote though.
Top 5 are good except probably Stewart who is poor here. But Hayden on his own is very dangerous too. For me though Stewart is a weaklink. Cronje also does not have a good record here. Raina is a decent batsman here and Oram is capable of lower order hitting too but tail starts from 8 and none of the tailenders are going to offer any resistance imo.
Aldo's bowling
Bond will be key here. Umar Gul struggled in Aus and NZ so I don't think he would be able to use the conditions much. Streak was decent in Aus so he maybe a little effective. After this Larsen is good enough to keep it very tight in the middle overs and between Sachin Yuvraj Symonds and Waugh they have 10 decent overs.
Aldo's batting
Waugh and Sachin are two world class openers. They have two very good bowlers up against them but it would be naive to say that they will be easily dismissed. They are quite sensible batsmen and may end up not getting dismissed to them at all. I don't really rate bell but he has a decent record in NZ and is capable of playing a supporting role to one of the openers. Neither Younis not Yuvraj seems to have a decent record here though. Symonds is a very very capable batsman as well and Boucher and streak are very very industrious batsmen well capable of lower order hitting.
Mani's Bowling
Both McGrath and de villiers are top bowlers who will keep it tight early on. Though Glenn's economy here is about 4.2 and fanie's is 4.3 here (which in itself is a very good economy). Anderson again has a very poor record here but has a slightly better record in Aus (but poor economy) so he will probably go for runs. Mushtaq Ahmed seems to have a decent record here though I don't rate him much either and Jacob oram will keep it tight though I don't think he would take a lot of wickets going by his average.
Overall I think both batting lineups have 2 batsmen who have poor records here but the presence of Sachin and Waugh uptop and a slightly deeper batting gives aldo a slight edge. Bowling wise Bond is very key here but both have a bowler each who will struggle here with economy. I think mani probably edges it there. Will wait before I vote though.
Thanks Skills. Didn't think there would be much movement in SA though. And had no Idea SL was better for the spinners than India, no wonder Herath is such a legend.
I did get that. That's why I said you cannot quantify pressure. The pressure Sachin feels is a lot different to what Abd or Kohli feels. And about responsibility, I hate to bring this up but, Sachin's batting form as Captain was nowhere close to being good enough. He crumbled under that pressure if I recall correctly. It's still too early to judge how Kohli might perform, so I can't be sure.
Very unusual take you have there @prath92. You acknowledge the shortcomings of either teams in the conditions, but then go onto say that Sachin might not get dismissed at all ? Especially when he has a history of losing his wicket more frequently to 4 of our bowlers than any other set of bowlers in the history of ODI cricket?! And they have taken his wicket on flat or batsmen friendly surface. And as for Waugh, we admitted in the write-up, trying to contain him would be more difficult, but we believe this is where Mushy will be crucial. His record in NZ is far better than his overall record and him and Murali are among the two most notable spinners that have taken his wicket with consistency. When you add those two up, it seems inevitable that Mushy will pick up Waugh's wicket. How much he will score before that, I don't know though.
219.
He clearly doesn't need one. Probably has the fields decided for every over too.
Nope he got shot dead on turn 1?
Playing WW and counting the number of posts you made there Varun ?
.Oh, yeah! Serves him right for giving aNope he got shot dead on turn 1
reaction when I was threadbanned. 219?
Playing WW and counting the number of posts you made there Varun ?
Lol, if you say so bud.
Hayden's record in NZ is outstanding, with Kane Williamson and M.Yousuf coming up we can grind those middle over and can score at good pace, H.Cronje our Captain is a good striker of the ball, with S.Raina and J.Oram (Home condition) we can set an V good score for our bowlers to defend.
McGrath is the best bowler to look for in these condition or any conditions for that matter can get an early wkts.
Di Villiers is the economy bowler who maintained the economy rate around 3.5 throughout his career.
In James Anderson we got the swing bowler, who might go for few runs but again he's a strike bowler who could get us break we looking at.
Musthaq Ahmad, leggy cum googly bowler and only spinner in this match got an spectular record in Nz conditions.
H.Cronje can bowle his handy medium pace, Sachin himself has endrosed that he's the only bowler that some have get his wkt, it may be either because of his right field placment or the ball finds the rigjt fielder while he bowls.
And again we have J.Oram who is much aware of his home condition can bowl and tight line to contain the run rate.
Over all we are in better position to come better out of this.
McGrath is the best bowler to look for in these condition or any conditions for that matter can get an early wkts.
Di Villiers is the economy bowler who maintained the economy rate around 3.5 throughout his career.
In James Anderson we got the swing bowler, who might go for few runs but again he's a strike bowler who could get us break we looking at.
Musthaq Ahmad, leggy cum googly bowler and only spinner in this match got an spectular record in Nz conditions.
H.Cronje can bowle his handy medium pace, Sachin himself has endrosed that he's the only bowler that some have get his wkt, it may be either because of his right field placment or the ball finds the rigjt fielder while he bowls.
And again we have J.Oram who is much aware of his home condition can bowl and tight line to contain the run rate.
Over all we are in better position to come better out of this.
We have Bond. Shane Bond.
Yep.
And only one would be arguing at a time.
I would be moving to bed now and may behe stays for hour or so.
He has been dismissed twice by De Villiers. Troubled sachin often yes but dismissing him twice isnt that many though. Mcgrath yes dismissed but going by the records of Cronje and Anderson while bowling here, its highly unlikely they will take his wicket, especially considering they will come on only after at least the 10th over by which time if they are still there, then getting them out is very difficult. So basically all they have to do is play intelligently and see the opening bowlers off without playing rashly which isnt too much to expect from experienced batsmen like Waugh and Sachin.
Anyways, jokes aside, before I drink some beer.
I think we have a proper ODI team.
2 absolutely top drawer openers, one of them being Sachin himself, a solid 3-4 to build the innings alongside these openers, superb finishers to chase whatever total is set for us supported by pinch hitters right till the tail end of the side.
On the bowling side, we have one of the best strike bowlers in Bond. I'm sure people know enough about him to not need a reminder. Supporting him are Gul and Streak, 2 very good bowlers. We then have larsen who was a miser with the ball and really suited to keeping the middle overs tight. We then have the like software yuvi and symonds as the 5th bowler with spin or medium pace.
We are also a very good fielding side which is important in ODIs.
I think we have a proper ODI team.
2 absolutely top drawer openers, one of them being Sachin himself, a solid 3-4 to build the innings alongside these openers, superb finishers to chase whatever total is set for us supported by pinch hitters right till the tail end of the side.
On the bowling side, we have one of the best strike bowlers in Bond. I'm sure people know enough about him to not need a reminder. Supporting him are Gul and Streak, 2 very good bowlers. We then have larsen who was a miser with the ball and really suited to keeping the middle overs tight. We then have the like software yuvi and symonds as the 5th bowler with spin or medium pace.
We are also a very good fielding side which is important in ODIs.
But it's not as simple as that is it ? You call it playing intelligently, I call it playing slowly. McGrath and Fanie are Dot ball specialists. So if we do amass a good score like we hope to, you can't expect both of them to just sit there and see out the first few overs. They will have to challenge the bowlers, or go after one of them. McGrath is a top order specialist by default. Almost all of his major scalps have been the top order. So to think that he won't pick up an early wicket in his opening spell doesn't do his career justice.
And also De Villiers took Sachin's wicket 4 times. not twice.
List of dismissals
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Will someone be at fine leg?
But it's not as simple as that is it ? You call it playing intelligently, I call it playing slowly. McGrath and Fanie are Dot ball specialists. So if we do amass a good score like we hope to, you can't expect both of them to just sit there and see out the first few overs. They will have to challenge the bowlers, or go after one of them. McGrath is a top order specialist by default. Almost all of his major scalps have been the top order. So to think that he won't pick up an early wicket in his opening spell doesn't do his career justice.
And also De Villiers took Sachin's wicket 4 times. not twice.
List of dismissals
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http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...late=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary
Not that impressive, vaas has him out 9 times.
Ian Bell and Younis Khan would never make anyone's Proper team, mate. No offence.
And generalising everything is way too easy. No point of having a discussion then, might as well have give the award to either you or EAP for having the two best batsmen in ODI history.
Cronje vs Sachin is above all that playing condition, its a kind of mental block.
Just check on the OP , sachin could have played him better but he thinks when ever cronje bowls ball some have finds the fielders.
Cronje had dismissed sachin 5 times which is not oridinary by any mean.