Younis Khan was a very good ODI player, doesnt deserved to be classed alongside bell there.
ODI Cricket Draft: Mani vs Aldo @Wellington
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Younis Khan was a very good ODI player, doesnt deserved to be classed alongside bell there.
Check the list I just posted above, cronje dismissed him 3 times in 32 matches. Not really that impressive.
J.Anderson has 5 wkt haul in NZ and still people think he's poor at these condition.
Anderson what we saw in later part of his career is much better bowler (2010 and above) I agree his early seasons are not good compared to his later years.
The5 wkt haul I mentioned here came in his later years.
Anderson what we saw in later part of his career is much better bowler (2010 and above) I agree his early seasons are not good compared to his later years.
The5 wkt haul I mentioned here came in his later years.
He's good batsmen but his record in Nz is not that encouraging mate.
We've seen that analysis quite a few times. And you've missed a very key component there. The stat called Mat/Dismissals. Vaas has taken his wicket 9 times in 49 matches. A Bat/Dismissals ratio of 5.44 which is nothing special to be honest. If you look at the top end of that list, you will see Lee (Which was very famously hyped up by TMH) and McGrath.
Varun will field there. He has a ridiculous throwing arm.
Never saw enough of him in ODIs so I'll have to take your word on it. But his record is very poor apart from against India. I think he'd be averaging less than 30 if you take India out of the equation.
During his peak(96-2003), the bowlers with the most success against him(five or more matches) were:-
Walsh- dismissed four times in 8 matches, average of only 12.
Bracken-dismissed 3 times in 6 matches, average of 58!
Razzaq-dismissed four times in 10 matches,average of 43! though
Tuffey-dismissed 3 times in 7 matches, average of 7.5
De Villiers-dismissed 3 times in 8 matches, average of 10
Lee-Four dismissals in 11 matches, average of 17.25
Friend-3 dismissals in 9 matches,average of 24.66
Akhtar-3 dismissals in 10 matches,average of 45
McGrath-5 dismissals in 17 matches,average of 30.20.
Looking at that, the only bowlers he never really got on top off were walsh,tuffey,de villiers and lee to a lesser extent.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...late=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary
Walsh- dismissed four times in 8 matches, average of only 12.
Bracken-dismissed 3 times in 6 matches, average of 58!
Razzaq-dismissed four times in 10 matches,average of 43! though
Tuffey-dismissed 3 times in 7 matches, average of 7.5
De Villiers-dismissed 3 times in 8 matches, average of 10
Lee-Four dismissals in 11 matches, average of 17.25
Friend-3 dismissals in 9 matches,average of 24.66
Akhtar-3 dismissals in 10 matches,average of 45
McGrath-5 dismissals in 17 matches,average of 30.20.
Looking at that, the only bowlers he never really got on top off were walsh,tuffey,de villiers and lee to a lesser extent.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...late=results;type=batting;view=bowler_summary
Younis was shit in ODIs.
Huh? I am talking about the type of players there. Top class openers. Solid 3-4. Finishers. Pinch hitters at the tail end. I don't expect anyone to have a dream team in a snake draft.
Talking about individuals as you want to, Bell and especially Younis are more than capable of playing the roles required of them here. They aren't playing with the donkeys they play with for their NT. They have top class players ahead of them and to follow. They have to play the support act, not hit brisk centuries.
Btw, I am all for discussion but once you completely brush off Sachin because the mighty hansie cronje and Fanie devilliers are bowling to him, excuse me for not taking it very seriously. You went to the extent of saying:
This about a batting line up that includes Sachin and Yuvraj. What type of discussion does it encourage?
Bell is the biggest donkey to have played for England.
Yeah, agree with that.
See above, knew you were going to say that. Plus was an interesting analysis
Just checked his record, you are right.Of the test playing nations, his average is better than 30 only against India, Srilank and WI. Guess those India's knocks might have effected my memory of him, and how shit our current batsmen are.
Matthew Hayden and Co against Shane Bond in a World Cup game
His Average In Nz is 19 if I'm not wrong
@MJJ what you said is true its 3 times in ODI and 5 times in test.
The role he has to play here couldn't be more different than what's required of him for Pakistan. He just needs to provide support to the classy openers and the various Finishers we have. He's smart enough to play the role.
I know you don't rate him but that's not even close to being true. You have had a shit ODI team for ages.
Moving to bed, GN everyone.
Yes. Have you been playing all this while ?
Those averages really don't mean anything to be honest. It just say the average score Sachin was at when he was dismissed. So any bowler could have come in for a second spell and taken his wicket and that ave would have been high.
And if you are going to do this whole "Peak" logic for Sachin, you might as well do it for everyone. I really don't understand how you can judge something like Peak performance in a game of cricket. If that's the case, I can easily only pick the peak performances of the likes of James Anderson, Raina, Stewart, Oram and make them look like demi Gods.
I tend to focus on enjoying the teams. Don't pay arttention to who
The problem with your strategy simply is that you cannot pose a total my batting order cannot chase, you lack the lower order to accomplish that. The importance of finishers cannot be more emphasized.
Your 6-7-8 is Raina, Oram and De Villiers.
Our 6-7-8 is Symonds, Boucher and Streak.
It's not even comparable, sorry. Raina's weakness against short bowling is pretty well known and he will be facing Bond and Gul, two bowlers who can easily extract enough bounce to trouble him, he's not lasting long here. Your top order is surely good enough to give you a good start, that is Bond doesn't run them over
but honestly, my bowling unit has insanely accurate bowlers such as Bond, Streak and Larsen. They are famous for choking big teams at the biggest of stages. That combined with the lack of a player who can provide a great finish will simply not let you make a good enough total.
While chasing, against a low total, my batsmen will be comfortably pacing their innings and of course, as I mentioned my lower order will see this game through.
Your 6-7-8 is Raina, Oram and De Villiers.
Our 6-7-8 is Symonds, Boucher and Streak.
It's not even comparable, sorry. Raina's weakness against short bowling is pretty well known and he will be facing Bond and Gul, two bowlers who can easily extract enough bounce to trouble him, he's not lasting long here. Your top order is surely good enough to give you a good start, that is Bond doesn't run them over
but honestly, my bowling unit has insanely accurate bowlers such as Bond, Streak and Larsen. They are famous for choking big teams at the biggest of stages. That combined with the lack of a player who can provide a great finish will simply not let you make a good enough total. While chasing, against a low total, my batsmen will be comfortably pacing their innings and of course, as I mentioned my lower order will see this game through.
I dont think this whole he has got Sachin out so therefore Sachin cant play him argument is anything frankly. Its possible that one of them may take his wicket of course but its also quite possible that they may not. We are talking about one of the best batsman in ODI era. To say that playing against Cronje is some kind of weakness sounds ridiculous. Im sure Sachin has scored many 50s and 100s playing against SA with cronje and/or de villiers in the opposite team. So in my opinion, its nothing more than an indicator. Not a certainty in any way.
Aah, have my posts been too harsh (*Harshad makes appearance*) on him ?
Gnyt man.
Tell me about it
Sachin has been discarded from the threat list because of cronje and devilliers.
I did the same for my batsmen and bowlers, makes more sense for players who had a really long career. And we do the same in football drafts.
Yeah, I was confused about the averages, wasnt sure if its the runs that tendulkar scored against the bowler or the runs he was at. It does explain why bracken and razzaq averages are so high since they normally didnt open the bowling for their respective sides.
With McGrath I think he got a couple of good knocks in which pushed his average up. Still having both him and de villiers should bring tendulkar back to human levels.
Enough talk of the master, his opening partner isn't too shabby himself.
If you had to describe Mark Waugh in just one word, then it has to be 'Elegance'. Blessed with the most pleasing cover drive in the cricketing world, Mark Waugh's batting was simply a sight to behold. Not only was he a gifted batsman, he was a canny medium pacer who switched to off-spin bowling due to injuries. He was one of the greatest slip fielders that Australia had ever seen.
Known as Junior because he was born four minutes after the birth of his twin brother Steve Waugh, Mark spent a considerable amount of time under the shadow of his brother. During the 1984/85 season, Mark and Steve were selected in the New South Wales team. However, during that period, Steve was selected in the Australian team while Mark was ignored. This resulted in him being oddly named 'Afghan', in reference to the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 which is often called the “Forgotten War”.
The period after 1987 was the most productive in his career as he piled on the runs. He won the Sheffield Shield Cricketer of the year and performed consistently for Essex. This earned him a call-up into the Australian team for the World Championship series featuring Pakistan and West Indies in 1988.
After a lukewarm start, Mark got an opportunity to make his Test debut in the fourth Ashes Test against England in Adelaide in 1991. It was a bittersweet moment though, as he was chosen to replace his older twin, Steve in the team. Steve Waugh had a torrid time as he was undergoing a slump. Mark came in with Australia 104/4 and produced an innings that thrilled the crowd present. He became the 15th Australian player to score a century on debut and Mark proved to the world that he had arrived.
However, the twins did have their moment of glory as well. In 1990, they were involved in a World Record in First class cricket for the highest fifth wicket partnership when New South Wales took on Western Australia. They shared an unbeaten 464 run for the fifth wicket, with both scoring double centuries. Mark's purple patch started when he was promoted to open the batting in ODIs. He struck three centuries in the 96 World Cup, becoming the only player in the history of World Cups to achieve that feat. He scored tons against Kenya, India and New Zealand. The 126 in the quarter-final against New Zealand was breath-taking to say the least.
In the Test Arena, Mark continued to dazzle. His crowning glory came during the fifth and final Test against West Indies. With the series poised at 1-1, Mark stroked a brilliant 126. However, it was his partnership with his brother Steve that put Australia on the verge of victory. Steve stole the show by stroking his first double century. However, the 231 run stand sowed the seeds for Australia's victory as they defeated the West Indies after 20 years to regain the Frank Worrell trophy. A new world order was ushered in cricket.
However, towards the fag end of his career, Mark was embroiled in controversies. In 1998, he and Shane Warne had accepted money in exchange for pitch and weather information from an Indian bookmaker during a tour of Sri Lanka in 1994. He continued to survive for some time but his consistency dipped. He duly announced his retirement in 2002 and ended up as the leading run scorer in ODIs. Mark's 181 catches in Test cricket are a testament to his great catching. A nimble footed fielder, Mark's reflexes were simply awesome. That record stood for some time until Rahul Dravid went past that mark in 2009. He now works as a cricket commentator for Fox Sports and gives commentary for the Australian domestic matches.
If you had to describe Mark Waugh in just one word, then it has to be 'Elegance'. Blessed with the most pleasing cover drive in the cricketing world, Mark Waugh's batting was simply a sight to behold. Not only was he a gifted batsman, he was a canny medium pacer who switched to off-spin bowling due to injuries. He was one of the greatest slip fielders that Australia had ever seen.
Known as Junior because he was born four minutes after the birth of his twin brother Steve Waugh, Mark spent a considerable amount of time under the shadow of his brother. During the 1984/85 season, Mark and Steve were selected in the New South Wales team. However, during that period, Steve was selected in the Australian team while Mark was ignored. This resulted in him being oddly named 'Afghan', in reference to the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 which is often called the “Forgotten War”.
The period after 1987 was the most productive in his career as he piled on the runs. He won the Sheffield Shield Cricketer of the year and performed consistently for Essex. This earned him a call-up into the Australian team for the World Championship series featuring Pakistan and West Indies in 1988.
After a lukewarm start, Mark got an opportunity to make his Test debut in the fourth Ashes Test against England in Adelaide in 1991. It was a bittersweet moment though, as he was chosen to replace his older twin, Steve in the team. Steve Waugh had a torrid time as he was undergoing a slump. Mark came in with Australia 104/4 and produced an innings that thrilled the crowd present. He became the 15th Australian player to score a century on debut and Mark proved to the world that he had arrived.
However, the twins did have their moment of glory as well. In 1990, they were involved in a World Record in First class cricket for the highest fifth wicket partnership when New South Wales took on Western Australia. They shared an unbeaten 464 run for the fifth wicket, with both scoring double centuries. Mark's purple patch started when he was promoted to open the batting in ODIs. He struck three centuries in the 96 World Cup, becoming the only player in the history of World Cups to achieve that feat. He scored tons against Kenya, India and New Zealand. The 126 in the quarter-final against New Zealand was breath-taking to say the least.
In the Test Arena, Mark continued to dazzle. His crowning glory came during the fifth and final Test against West Indies. With the series poised at 1-1, Mark stroked a brilliant 126. However, it was his partnership with his brother Steve that put Australia on the verge of victory. Steve stole the show by stroking his first double century. However, the 231 run stand sowed the seeds for Australia's victory as they defeated the West Indies after 20 years to regain the Frank Worrell trophy. A new world order was ushered in cricket.
However, towards the fag end of his career, Mark was embroiled in controversies. In 1998, he and Shane Warne had accepted money in exchange for pitch and weather information from an Indian bookmaker during a tour of Sri Lanka in 1994. He continued to survive for some time but his consistency dipped. He duly announced his retirement in 2002 and ended up as the leading run scorer in ODIs. Mark's 181 catches in Test cricket are a testament to his great catching. A nimble footed fielder, Mark's reflexes were simply awesome. That record stood for some time until Rahul Dravid went past that mark in 2009. He now works as a cricket commentator for Fox Sports and gives commentary for the Australian domestic matches.
Mark Waugh in World Cups
1996
Runs: 484 (second highest, to Sachin)
Avg: 80.66 (second highest, to Sachin)
100s: 3 (highest)
50: 1
SR: 86
1999
Runs: 375
Avg: 41.66
100s: 1
50s: 2
SR: 76
dunno what you mean but yeah you are harsh
Posting just his world cup stats is being selective to win votes, its an ODI draft. His whole career should count, not just 15-20 matches.
Comparison in two teams
Batting
Hayden & Stewart < Sachin & Waugh - Hayden is very very good but Stewart being poor edges it to Aldo
Williamson > Bell- A much better batsman and playing at home
Yusuf > Younis - Yusuf has a better record and is frankly a much better batsman
Cronje = Yuvraj - Both have poor records so it doesnt really matter here
Raina < Symonds - Symonds is a better batsman than Raina
Oram > Boucher - Boucher has a poor record
Aldo has another decent option here who has a good record in NZ as well in Streak. Whereas after 7 is Mani's tail.
Bowling
De Villiers < Bond - may seem surprising and unfair but Bond in NZ is too good (average of 19)
McGrath > Gul - Gul is really poor so no question
Anderson < Streak - Streak is more economical here even though both have high averages
Oram < Larsen - Larsen's much more economical though both have high averages. Both are from NZ too
Mushtaq, Cronje = Waugh,Symonds,Sachin - As the fifth bowler they all have decent records bowling here. Maybe a slight edge to Mani due to mushtaq
Batting
Hayden & Stewart < Sachin & Waugh - Hayden is very very good but Stewart being poor edges it to Aldo
Williamson > Bell- A much better batsman and playing at home
Yusuf > Younis - Yusuf has a better record and is frankly a much better batsman
Cronje = Yuvraj - Both have poor records so it doesnt really matter here
Raina < Symonds - Symonds is a better batsman than Raina
Oram > Boucher - Boucher has a poor record
Aldo has another decent option here who has a good record in NZ as well in Streak. Whereas after 7 is Mani's tail.
Bowling
De Villiers < Bond - may seem surprising and unfair but Bond in NZ is too good (average of 19)
McGrath > Gul - Gul is really poor so no question
Anderson < Streak - Streak is more economical here even though both have high averages
Oram < Larsen - Larsen's much more economical though both have high averages. Both are from NZ too
Mushtaq, Cronje = Waugh,Symonds,Sachin - As the fifth bowler they all have decent records bowling here. Maybe a slight edge to Mani due to mushtaq
But you think scoring 100 runs in the last 10 overs is the only way to "Finish" an Innings, which I don't find to be true at all. Hayden-Williamson-Yousuf can easily play a long innings and keep the runs flowing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if two of them got a century. So the actual requirement from 6-7 is not that big. Cronje was very good at upping the game too whenever required. @Mani could probably post a few videos of that, since his knowledge on our captain is far better. But I do remember Cronje being more than very good with the bat He has an Ave of 38 ffs, better than your No 5. It's just the roles of those two players are very different. But Mani would probably explain it better in the morning.The problem with your strategy simply is that you cannot pose a total my batting order cannot chase, you lack the lower order to accomplish that. The importance of finishers cannot be more emphasized.
Your 6-7-8 is Raina, Oram and De Villiers.
Our 6-7-8 is Symonds, Boucher and Streak.
It's not even comparable, sorry. Raina's weakness against short bowling is pretty well known and he will be facing Bond and Gul, two bowlers who can easily extract enough bounce to trouble him, he's not lasting long here. Your top order is surely good enough to give you a good start, that is Bond doesn't run them over
While chasing, against a low total, my batsmen will be comfortably pacing their innings and of course, as I mentioned my lower order will see this game through.
And yes, the famous Short Ball Logic for Raina. Was waiting for this.
You know fully well it's likely to be Raina at the death more often than not, but you don't really make a mention of using bouncers. But I get that, you were being very generic, but since you went to the trouble of saying who bowls which over, might as well have mentioned this. Bond was not that good with the bouncers from what I remember and Gul has the worst record from both sets of bowlers in these conditions. I doubt he could do anything but swear in Urdu/Hindi. And the whole Bouncer theory is more valid only in Tests to be honest. One of the reason he was so regularly dropped early on in tests was because of that.Aldo said:
And he's not some stagnant puddle of water to have not realized that he has a weakness. He has tremendously improved on that, with some thanks to your opener no less.
And you if you look at the YT video posted for Raina, you can see him comfortably dealing with a couple of bouncers. So not at all worried with him there. Oram I've already mentioned will come, hit 2-3 sixes and go back to the pavilion. That's all we want him to do anyway.
The same can't be said of your team.
If all goes to plan, Sachin will lose his wicket early on or atleast early on-ish, and then you have Bell, Younis who are not really anyone's first choice for middle order batsmen. Before you know it, you might find yourself three down with Waugh and Yuvi trying to chase the target. Yuvi's record doesn't help here and hopefully Mushy will get Waugh out. Then it's down to Symo-Streak-Boucher. Never rated Steak as a batsmen and Boucher can hit a few. But if you were to ask Symo-Streak-Boucher to chase a very competitive score against the relentless De Villiers, The consistent McGrath and the deadly Anderson, I know who I'd prefer.
Of course but performances at the biggest stage is what made him a legend of the shorter version, and they at times get lost in the narrative of him being just a stylish elegant performer, the man was absolute clutch and in a tight game he's not short of ideal to silently take the game out of the opponent's hands.
Besides, the post is titled 'World Cup Stats' and everyone knows how to read it. It's like posting Messi's CL record to highlight his dominance on the big stage is somehow 'vote winning tactic'. It's not.
The way I'm seeing it is can Mani's team put on a high enough score to bowl too. Aldo's line up is formidable (minus Bell ). I think you're very reliant on Hayden to go big since he's the only one who can dominate the bowlers from start to finish. Your finishers are good but I'm not sure the main batsmen can do a good enough job to allow Raina and co to play their cameos.
). I think you're very reliant on Hayden to go big since he's the only one who can dominate the bowlers from start to finish. Your finishers are good but I'm not sure the main batsmen can do a good enough job to allow Raina and co to play their cameos.@Aldo just copy pasted Cricinfo for Waugh's tribute. . I just wished people would read our write-up. . We've already explained Waugh is one to be wary about.
. I just wished people would read our write-up. . We've already explained Waugh is one to be wary about.Would agree to this to a large extent. Think there isnt much between sachin(with mcgrath and de villiers on the other side) and hayden but waugh is miles better than stewart. @Mani @Ijazz17 am not sure but I think hayden has a very good record against gul in particular.
You should also consider the strike rate for the bowlers, not just the economy and average.
@Aldo just copy pasted Cricinfo for Waugh's tribute.
Tell me your bowling order from over by over
I cant think of a siimilar example but it will be like posting klose's world cup stats to build him up as a footballer. Obviously not that extreme of a drop between waugh's normal level compared to klose.
Reading Ijazz's big post, I think we'l lose this by 150+ runs.