We have Bond. If you consider Mcgrath's quality and bring Sachin down a peg, same should be done for Hayden. I hope you're going by their quality and not Fanie and Cronje are bowling so Sachin isnt even a threat nonsense.
ODI Cricket Draft: Mani vs Aldo @Wellington
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We have Bond. If you consider Mcgrath's quality and bring Sachin down a peg, same should be done for Hayden. I hope you're going by their quality and not Fanie and Cronje are bowling so Sachin isnt even a threat nonsense.
Let's not ignore the fielding aspect of the game, please. We made it a point to give extra points for picking top fielders and we have picked absolute cream here.
Andrew Symonds, Ian Bell and Yuvraj Singh guarding the ring with Mark Waugh at slips, is a fantastic fielding unit. @Boycott even you'd give credit to Bell on the field!
Against the accuracy of my bowling unit the fielding unit will make it even harder and further dry up the runs.
Symonds was an absolute freak in the field, and was well capable of enforcing a run out out of nowhere to break a partnership.
Andrew Symonds, Ian Bell and Yuvraj Singh guarding the ring with Mark Waugh at slips, is a fantastic fielding unit. @Boycott even you'd give credit to Bell on the field!
Against the accuracy of my bowling unit the fielding unit will make it even harder and further dry up the runs.
Symonds was an absolute freak in the field, and was well capable of enforcing a run out out of nowhere to break a partnership.
When it's just one player, it understandable Prath. It could go either way. But these are the laws of probability. We are talking about atleast 3-4 players who have comfortably troubled him in the past. If sachin himself has admitted to being troubled by Cronje and his team-mate, Srinath has also admitted that De Villiers was always one step ahead of Sachin, what must be done to convince you?
. The rest of the drafts have all been about people bullshitting obscure stats here and there and all about hypotheticals to sway votes in their favour. But here we have actual history that has taken place between him and our bowlers. I really can't say more than that. This is the one battle which should be as clear as daylight.Expected the whole thing to be centred around Tendulkar. Fine players on both sides being under looked as people zone into the strengths and weaknesses of one man. Same with Viv.
Yeah, thats why I said it will bring Sachin back to human level. Am not completely disregarding him, has bond a good record against hayden? From my memories of hayden, he almost always used to score against pakistan, but am not sure if gul was playing back then or not. But if bond has a good record against him, then obvious the opening goes hugely in your favor again. Not expecting a lot from stewart here.
He's a fine fielder for sure.
Symonds is a clutch player and with his batting power he could potentially be used up the order. A beast of a player.
Well, Hayden was one of the victims when Bond ran through the Aussies finishing with 6 for 23 in the 2003 World Cup.
Bond also averages 19 at home, where this game is being played. Having one of the best players on the park in their element is certainly highly advantageous to us, more so as one of his top order need to stay for a long innings and an early blow by Bond and co. could be beyond repair.
Bowling first on a kiwi pitch gives us that opportunity.
That wasn't our intention at all. We had to respond because of the way Sachin was discarded like shikhar dhawan because the mighty cronje and fanie happen to be bowling to him.
Yeah, when looking at both teams, am personally expecting stewart to be out within the first five overs due to the bond factor. Hayden and Williamson can navigate him I think,based on what I know of both, but if history proves else wise then will have to deduct runs from team mani. Thing is if you can get yousaf on the pitch within the first ten overs, I can see him getting out to bond as well and thats game over basically. Lots depends on the young shoulders of williamson.
The pressure will ease up a lot for team mani after that, gul and streak arent of the same quality.
His ability would be invaluable coming in later in a chase, though. Specially given our openers one of which is quite likely to stay for a decent amount of time, we need to use Symonds' ability to finish the game off at the end.
Can the opposition middle over bowlers contain Yuvraj and Symonds' onslaught?
@MJJ Fanie got Sachin a few times ofcourse but such stats show half the story as you're well aware. It isn't as if Sachin struggled against that SA team because of his presence. Even the dismissals listed by Ijazz has number of 50s and few 100s in matches around the time.
Captain Cronje is the man for that job. He's already planned how to bowl for the Quarter finals too.
Aldo seems to think our batting is piss poor. Can't let go of that so easily. And I don't think you'll lose by 150. It will be difficult though.
The cronje was like Mani said a mental block. One of those things he couldn't shake from his mind, so he got more weary whenever Cronje bowled. And Cronje was a very decent bowler btw, he isn't nonsense.
And Fanie genuinely troubled him and I don't know much about him honestly, but Mani has very high opinions of him (Heck even you guys were looking at drafting him). So yeah, we are going by quality obviously.
Also regarding Hayden, our research shows that Bond and hayden also share some sort of history. Of the 44 Australian wickets Bond has taken, Hayden has only been the victim once. But obviously, Bond is insanely good. But he needs a good support cast. I don't see him being complimented so well by anyone from your remaining bowlers.
Yeah, we saw that too. But I would say fielding is pretty even. We have Williamson and Raina in the outfield who are absolutely fantastic. Cronje was very good in his days. And then Hayden the slip specialist. So pretty even there. I don't think either team will drop any catches or make a meal out of the fielding.
See my stats. I think that shows the total average when facing SA side containing de villiers (seriously, who names their kid fanie! I hope it wasnt pronounced fanny). He only has an average of 10(in his peak years) against de villiers. Compare that to 30 for McGrath and Akhtar which shows that while they took his wicket a lot, he also destroyed them as well a couple of times. Doesnt appear to be the case with de villiers.
As I said before, I can't see a massive score being posted to chase down. 300 at the minimum and while Mani/Ijazz have technically sound players, they lack the players to go up the gear. Stewart/Yousuf/Williamson/Cronje can all lay foundations. Do you need all four in one team though??
No doubt Kane and Raina are both quality fielders but Yuvraj and especially Symonds are of the absolute elite class. They have sure made that difference count several times.
Andrew Symonds was the best fielder in the world by a distance at his peak. Not just close in, but in the outfield. The man would hit the wickets with a rocket throw from the deep. There are very few and not many apart from Jonty who can challenge the force of nature he was in the field.
Your fielding wouldn't let any mistakes, sure, but I have a couple of blokes who can cause a dismissal out of absolutely nothing which is a major advantage to have and I am delighted to have it.
When it's just one player, it understandable Prath. It could go either way. But these are the laws of probability. We are talking about atleast 3-4 players who have comfortably troubled him in the past. If sachin himself has admitted to being troubled by Cronje and his team-mate, Srinath has also admitted that De Villiers was always one step ahead of Sachin, what must be done to convince you?
Chill. Not disregarding anything at all. I still think overall your bowling has an edge due to Mcgrath and Fanie. Plus Anderson aside, most of your bowlers are economic enough so scoring runs wont be easy either.
These are runs scored per dismissal right? Sachin scored a number of 50s and few 100s during the series Ijazz mentioned in his dismissal screenshot. Wasn't fanie playing some games. I don't know how to check that.
Williamson is more than capable of upping a gear. He's played at 6 with an Average of 103 and a SR of 113. At 3, he averages 52 with a SR 85. Very very very healthy stats. So no problems there whatsoever. He's such a versatile cricketer. And regarding Cronje, he can easily up the ante too. It was almost effortless with him sometimes.
I'd disagree. Williamson is flipping amazing and Raina has had plenty of Run-outs. All have been well put up in our Snickers sponsored Spoiler series.
I wonder why we even bothered with these catchy names and efforts and write-ups. Nobody seems to have even gone through them.
That runs column is pretty rubbish actually. I'd ignore that to be honest. But the screen shot I posted showed Sachin get out Twice in the 2nd Innings inside 20.
The reason why we gave finishers importance while picking like a lot of other teams. Like Boycott said, they have a lot of players who are good in laying the foundation but not many who can give it a required finish. Specially with Gul and Bond at the death who are a lethal pair to finish the innings and would be a handful for Raina, Oram and his tail starts at 7 while I have Gul coming in at 9. Thats the biggest difference in this game.
But, the lower order is not only responsible for giving a strongly build innings a good finish. They need to be good enough to build long stable partnerships in a case the top order goes early. The difference here is that even if you can argue that our top order will not click every single time, we still have strong players coming in later to stay at the crease and see the game out, and that is only if you can get through that top order easily.
Yuvraj Singh is a fantastic finisher in chases, I would dig the stats later perhaps but it is clear in my memory the number of games him and Dhoni finished so comfortably from incredibly tricky situations. That was the time when Sehwag and Gambhir were brilliant at the top and Yuvraj and Dhoni finishing things later. Not that different from my setup haha. But point being, Yuvraj chasing this total specially with the platform given by the top order and the number of batting options lower in the innings will relish this opportunity.
And Aldo, Bond has taken Hayden's wicket just the once. .
.Yeah, they played each other 8 times. So scored a total of 80 runs in those matches. I posted a link in my post above, its basically tendulkar's record against every bowler.
For akhtar, he scored 450 runs in 10 matches and got out 3 times to him. Which makes sense as he absolutely destroyed him in a couple of times.
For McGrath, he scored 510 runs in 17 matches and got out 5 times. Again seems reasonable but he really struggled against de villiers.
He didn't say your batting is piss poor. You seem to take everything to either extreme for some reason. He said he doesn't see you posting a huge total like you mentiones in your writeup. There's a difference.
I have read sachin's interview about cronje and he said nothing of that sort. Simply said he tended to hit a shot straight at a fielder leading to dismissals vs cronje. Fanie was a good bowler, no arguments there. Having him in the side doesn't take Sachin out of the equation as you have suggested, had roles been reversed, you'd have said exactly the same, so it's unfair. How streak, gul, larsen etc aren't good support case I don't know unless you expect bond Akram Mcgrath in the same team in a draft. Somehow, I doubt you are holding Anderson, Ahmed and fanie to the same high standards you expect of our bowlers.
Yeah, my personal opinion so far is that you have the stronger batting. Your openers are superior to his ( how superior depends on the de villiers factor), his middle order is better but your lower order shits on his. In the modern ODI game, I think thats will result in more wins rather than having a solid opening pair, strong middle order but weak lower order. Although personally I rate raina a lot, wanted him but @Akash said he was shit. Always scores against Pakistan in tight games. Whats his recond like in NZ? @Mani @Ijazz17
Bowling, I would give team mani an edge. I think his bowling is more economical and will make things harder for you guys but there is the bond factor. He can completely wreck their batting line-up which has to be a big factor. Will vote tomorrow after sleeping on it for a bit but expecting a close match.
In the 6 games they played.And Aldo, Bond has taken Hayden's wicket just the once.
The very reason Bond created his legacy was his performances against the best of the generation. And the one time you mention, was in the 2003 World Cup.
I have a number of players who have great records in big stages. Of course the whole career is important but this is a tight game and relates to one that you would find in a big tournament, and I've no shortage of players who have done it on that stage. The likes of Sachin, Yuvraj and Waugh have made telling differences in the biggest tournaments. There's no problem in playing under pressure or chasing a difficult total, which is unlikely here.
Williamson is more than capable of upping a gear. He's played at 6 with an Average of 103 and a SR of 113. At 3, he averages 52 with a SR 85. Very very very healthy stats. So no problems there whatsoever. He's such a versatile cricketer. And regarding Cronje, he can easily up the ante too. It was almost effortless with him sometimes.
I'd disagree. Williamson is flipping amazing and Raina has had plenty of Run-outs. All have been well put up in our Snickers sponsored Spoiler series.
I wonder why we even bothered with these catchy names and efforts and write-ups. Nobody seems to have even gone through them.
How many matches has he played there?
How important that would be in the game depends on how big a total he can give me to chase.
If he cannot pose a big enough total in the first place, even if his bowlers can bowl tight as long as I can keep wickets in hand I will be able to control the game.
Also, check out the strike rates of players in my team. Sachin, Yuvraj and Symonds as expected are off the charts but Younis and Bell also are in high 70s.
Combine the fact that he would find it difficult to pose a HUGE total to put me under pressure with the natural game of our players would mean that req run rate wouldn't usually be an issue.
He said he didn't see us having a big finish to the innings. And I said, it's not required that we need to score 100 or 120 runs in those last 10 overs. Seeing as we have Hayden, Williamson, Yousuf and Cronje, we are taking the slow,steady and occassional blietzkrieg approach. So the actual burden at the death won't be so much. But even if it is required, Raina and cronje and Oram can deliver.
And Like I said the Cronje thing was more of a mental block. He got out to him a few times in the test matches too, which is why he said he didn't what to do with him.
And you recruited Larsen for his tight economy if I am not mistaken, but he's not really a wicket taking bowler. And if you compare Anderson and Gul and Streak, I think Anderson is the much better bowler. An Anderson in his prime was immense. I can show you the year by year stats if you like. The averages he got in some of those years was incredible (He actually averaged 15 with a SR of 21 in 2013 and all those grounds were in either England or NZ, where there is a lot of swing on offer). The closest Gul came was 2008 with an Ave of 19, but half the game were against Bangladesh. Streak was a little better with his best year being 1995, where he averaged 18, but his sample size was less than Gul's and Anderson's. I've only considered the best bowling year btw.
And Mushtaq is the only genuine spinner from both the teams. His record in NZ is very good. Average of 24 and he has one of the best disguised Googly's ever.
So you can understand why I I think your support cast is not so great.
Absolutely. He was the tightest bowler of the 1999 WC and generally throughout his career an absolute thorn when it came to scoring.
I'll admit he made watching NZ games incredibly boring. Him and Harris would bowl for ages and no one could get them away.
He'll be crucial here as not only he's playing at home but also you have the responsibility of scoring a big total to put my batting under pressure. He can dry it up in the middle against your batting order and as discussed you lack someone at the end coming in to make up for those lost runs.
Also another contentious point, Ando has to share the responsibility of the fifth bowler among the likes of Waugh, Yuvraj and Symo. Not the most economical set are they ? They can easily go for runs.
But he's the only one who is economically good isn't he from your bowling attack. Even Bond used to go for runs. So did Streak, Gul and your part-timers.
We on the other hand have the more economical set of bowlers. Only Anderson might go for a few runs, but his wicket taking abilities means he is worth it.
But do we need to score at 6.5-7 rpo from the start?
Also the fact that throughout our top 6 no one has a SR less that 76
And the fact that we have players who love performing under pressure and have a great record in chasing.
It's a really tight game alright but these small factors in our favour are likely to turn the final outcome.
And @MJJ and @prath92 , If I am not mistaken, the both of you brought up Anderson's poor record in NZ right ?
I am sharing two screens which I hope might explain something.
Image I: Overall Record
Image 2: NZ Record
Now as you can clearly see from the first image, 2008 was a shit year for him. I mean what fast bowler would average 70? Which clearly means he was no where near his prime (Looking at you MJJ since you are a Prime lover). I read he had some sort of stress fracture which affected his game. But if you look at 2013, which was statistically his best year ever, he was immense. And three of those games came at NZ and that record speaks for itself.
I haven't but will read that post tmrw. Too late right now.
@MJJ and @prath92. Since you both doubt Anderson's ability. Here's something for you lads.
Image I: Overall Record
Image II: NZ Record
As you can clearly see, 2008 was a shit year for him. What bowler averages 70 ?!. From what I read, he suffered a severe stress fracture, so his performances suffered a lot. But 2013 was statistically speaking his best year ever (MJJ looking at you as you are the Peak lover). His record is incredible. And you can see from the second image his performances in 2013 in NZ were excellent. Even his economy was brilliant. A James Anderson like that can rip apart through any attack. The Swing will help him immensely.
Image I: Overall Record
@MJJ and @prath92. Since you both doubt Anderson's ability. Here's something for you lads.
Image I: Overall Record
Image II: NZ Record
As you can clearly see, 2008 was a shit year for him. What bowler averages 70 ?!. From what I read, he suffered a severe stress fracture, so his performances suffered a lot. But 2013 was statistically speaking his best year ever (MJJ looking at you as you are the Peak lover). His record is incredible. And you can see from the second image his performances in 2013 in NZ were excellent. Even his economy was brilliant. A James Anderson like that can rip apart through any attack. The Swing will help him immensely.
Dude wtf? I just told you above that I didn't doubt his ability and you recycle the same argument as above.
I deleted the first post, since it captured my Chrome too. Damn you MJJ, too fast for my fingers.You didn't? I could swear I remember you saying it. My bad then. Way too sleepy as it is.
Could have deleted my name as well from the secodn one
Am just waiting for ww lunch results so I can finally sleep