Well it doesn't seem that Madrid want to sell him, and you can hardly blame Fergie if he doesn't want to just borrow one of their players for a year.
Nuri Sahin
- Thread starter SiYuan
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Well it doesn't seem that Madrid want to sell him, and you can hardly blame Fergie if he doesn't want to just borrow one of their players for a year.
We're not the kind of club who takes other club's youngsters on loan for a year, and it's weird that some in here want us to be.
...What the feck kind of argument is that?
...What the feck kind of argument is that?
Yes, but even so..
You're a medical man, Pogue. Is there such a thing as cmophobia?
I've no idea but the reasons for not signing one or more central midfielders over the last few transfer windows are fairly obvious.
If we don't sign one this summer - despite losing Hargreaves, Fletcher, Pogba and Gibson in a relatively short space of time - it will be much harder to understand.
If we don't sign one this summer - despite losing Hargreaves, Fletcher, Pogba and Gibson in a relatively short space of time - it will be much harder to understand.
Can you explain them to us dimwits, or would that mean a dreaded CHANGE OF SUBJECT in a Transfer forum thread?
I listed some of the reasons by name in the latter half of that post. You can add Anderson, Cleverley, Scholes, Carrick and Giggs to the list. Only so many central midfielders you can accomodate in your squad in any given season.
Of course, with Hargreaves, Gibson, Pogba and now Fletcher (to all intents and purposes) gone, that list of reasons just got a lot less compelling.
This would be a good loan deal for us.
Arsenal or Tottenham.
Funny thing if he went to Arsenal - he had a major bust-up with Podolski in one of the matches between Dortmund and Köln. Should be entertaining.
Funny thing if he went to Arsenal - he had a major bust-up with Podolski in one of the matches between Dortmund and Köln. Should be entertaining.
I have heard about that bust-up.
What was it about? and is there no way they can compromise?
What was it about? and is there no way they can compromise?
A loan deal for Sahin would surely be a amazing deal for us if we set a price and option to buy now
we'd already lost Hargreaves (to the extent that we ever really had Hargreaves) this time last year, and Scholes had retired...So they were lying about it being a big team. He'd do well at Arsenal or Spurs and come back to Madrid refreshed. Problem is the team will have moved forward without him
Mourinho's just done the, "Sahin needs playing time," speech.
"I want to be honest, Sahin's future isn't certain and the market is open. If the chance comes for him to play somewhere else, it's better for him to leave so he can get playing time."
No mention of whether he's expecting to see a loan or a sale but AS and Marca are speculating about the PL, with Spurs (as part of the Modric deal, though they think this may be looking less likely) or another big English club (United and Arsenal get a mention) as the possibles.
"I want to be honest, Sahin's future isn't certain and the market is open. If the chance comes for him to play somewhere else, it's better for him to leave so he can get playing time."
No mention of whether he's expecting to see a loan or a sale but AS and Marca are speculating about the PL, with Spurs (as part of the Modric deal, though they think this may be looking less likely) or another big English club (United and Arsenal get a mention) as the possibles.
I have to agree here.
Which brings the number down from 9 to 7. That's still more than you need.
At present we've got Giggs, Scholes, Anderson, Cleverley, Carrick, Kagawa and Powell. There's a good case to be made that we still don't need another CM but this list of 7 players includes two who will almost certainly retire in the summer, which changes things a bit.
Agreed, he'd get the playing time here and is of a good age. He'd have every opportunity of breaking into the first team this season and remaining a major part of the team for the foreseeable future, which isn't something you can say about his chances at Real.
As well as Powell being 18 and Kagawa seemingly unlikely to play many games at CM for us.
Well if you're United you don't just need midfielders, you need really good ones. Not ones who are potentially really good if they can stay fit, step up, fulfil their talent etc.
Even Carrick's only just good enough.
Our results in the last few years up until last season (and arguably including last season) would indicate that our midfielders were plenty good enough.
I'm sure Fergie would have liked it to be stronger, mind you. This would, however, involve the likes of Anderson, Gibson and Cleverley fulfilling their potential and the likes of Fletcher/Hargreaves staying fit. Which involved a degree of risk but I don't have a problem with the patience shown to any of them, thus far.
Anyhoo, another discussion about central midfield. Yay.
I don't think our midfield has been strong enough for at least 2 years now, if not 3, and it was plain to see last Summer that we should've bought one. I completely disagree that it's only this Summer that we finally need to buy one. We should've sorted it out last year at the least, at this stage it's just becoming ridiculous.
Indeed. Which is where the departure of Gibson, Hargreaves, Fletcher and Pogba becomes relevant to this summers transfer strategy.
So out of that 7. Giggs' passing is far too erratic for him to be a reliable CM option, and it's likely he will retire soon. Scholes is fantastic but will he play every game? He'll retire soon also. Anderson has had injury after injury and he has found games hard to come by at many points in his United career. Certainly not someone Of be putting faith in to last a whole season. Cleverley has only played about 15 games for us and has had a lot of injuries. What if that happens again? I wouldn't be reliant on him just yet. Carrick is a first reamer who is very reliable. Kagawa is an attacking midfielder, and CM isn't a position he has played often. Powell is 18, and there is no way we should be relying on him to become a first reamer over the next season.
Point is, we need a midfielder in my opinion.
Point is, we need a midfielder in my opinion.
In my opinion too.
Anyone with half a brain would have that opinion. Our midfield is dire for a club of our stature.
Wasn't Sahin injured for most of last year? If so he wouldn't be a very attractive short term solution, especially considering one of the reasons people reckon we're desperate for midfielders is Cleverly and Andersons injury problems.
...and why only having one top CM under 38 ought to have been relevant to last summer's.
seems to have served him well the last half-decade or so. He's more erratic than the others but also more creative.Why would a one-off injury make you think he has injury/fitness issues, though? Even Scholes and Keane have gotten injured once in a while. Sahin could quite easily come back and completely run the midfield for us, in a not too dissimilar way to Scholes coming back from injury in 2006. He'd offer us a lot of the same things too.
Well no, it's not dire at all.
It's just not possible to achieve what we've achieved with a dire midfield. Far too important an area of the pitch.
Carrick, Scholes and Giggs (on his day) are all top class central midfielders. Fletcher had a couple of outstanding seasons and Anderson/Hargreaves have also done their bit.
Our midfield is not dire but it's definitely in need of a bit of a revamp.
Personally I tend to think they indicate how good we've been at the back and up front as much as in midfield. We've relied on the wingers massively, as we haven't had an enormous amount of creativity in midfield when Scholes wasn't in there (and often, the season before last, when he was).
Well I guess that depends on Fletcher's prognosis at the time.
If there was a realistic hope he could get back to his best, we would have had himself, carrick, giggs, gibson, anderson, cleverley and pogba all needing games and at least three of them capable of performing very well at the highest level on a regular basis. In a season where the formation of choice would involve playing just two CMs.
Hang on now, I don't mean 'dire' as in flat out dire, I mean when you compare it to the other teams in our 'category'. Real, Barca, City, Bayern. Our midfield is at a way lower level than theirs.
I'm sure some people will do the usual "you're a spoilt fan, you have to have the best bla bla", but aren't we Man Utd, the worlds biggest club? Therefore shouldn't we be aiming for the same level as the other top clubs? We've done absolutely nothing with it in years to suggest we're actually trying to reach that level, apart from 07/08 which failed badly.
Since Keane left, Scholes is the only truly top class midfielder we have had, and he's been past his best for a number of those years. Just contrast the amount of great players we've had on the wings, in defense and in attack compared to the midfield and it tells you how far behind it has been and continues to be.
By the way, I contribute our success far more to our great wingers and defenders in the last 5 to 6 years than our midfield, which has been more so ... adequate, until last season when it became inadequate (til Scholes came back anyway)
I'm sure some people will do the usual "you're a spoilt fan, you have to have the best bla bla", but aren't we Man Utd, the worlds biggest club? Therefore shouldn't we be aiming for the same level as the other top clubs? We've done absolutely nothing with it in years to suggest we're actually trying to reach that level, apart from 07/08 which failed badly.
Since Keane left, Scholes is the only truly top class midfielder we have had, and he's been past his best for a number of those years. Just contrast the amount of great players we've had on the wings, in defense and in attack compared to the midfield and it tells you how far behind it has been and continues to be.
By the way, I contribute our success far more to our great wingers and defenders in the last 5 to 6 years than our midfield, which has been more so ... adequate, until last season when it became inadequate (til Scholes came back anyway)
maybe fergie thinks that jones or one of the youngsters can be the solution. Or else he s willing to wait and see how kagawa settles in before buying a midfielder.
When have we ever had "an enormous amount of creativity in midfield" though? It's just not the way Fergie sets his teams up.
Even a passer of the ball as gifted as Scholes will be remembered more for smacking 40 yard passes to the wing than for threading the eye of the needle through the centre of the pitch.
Kagawa's a really interesting signing for me because it's a signal that we might be changing our approach. At least in a proportion of our games. On balance, I think this is a good thing. I reckon we were too inflexible last season.
I think it's more down to waiting for Scholes and Giggs to retire.
Scholes creativity was amazing in 06/07 with Carrick behind him, when he used to still bomb forward and not play the quarterback role. Probably the last really top midfield partnership we've had.
...and why only having one top CM under 38 ought to have been relevant to last summer's.
Granted he's creative, but he is also wasteful. He can be a liability when we need to keep the ball as he often gives it away.