Do you not think his passing abililty makes him a play maker?
He's certainly not the steely hard man we need.
Now for the holy grail: Playmaker
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Do you not think his passing abililty makes him a play maker?
He's certainly not the steely hard man we need.
He isn't creative enough to be a 'playmaker', we need someone who is going to get assists and chip in with a-few goals from midfield, Carrick is not that player.
Played most of last season sitting in front of the back four, which is where he showed some of his best form.
Okay playmaker might be over stating it and yes he played a more defensive role last year - but why? Because he had a 37 year old winger playing alongside him in central midfield. I think Carrick offers a lot going forward with the right midfielder beside him. But at the moment our CM doesn't have a strongman in there....the one we bought ended up with dodgy knees. And thats my point. If we are signing any central midfielder it will have to be a replacement for Hargo...
I love Charlenefan's "logic" here. "
"We won't be signing anyone, the media haven't linked us with anyone. No big transfers go through without the media knowing about it first."
- Actually, we have been linked with Nasri, Sneijder, Modric and Sanchez in the media for weeks.
"Pfffffttttt, the media are clueless, you can't trust them"
Did I say that? No. I provided answers as to why Nasri, Sneijder & Modric are all unlikely and the fact that all 3 are being linked equally and with none having a more credible source than the others meaning it's likely they're all just products of guess work by the media or an attempt to get hits/sell papers
You've just spent the past hour arguing the toss with me because of my reasons as to why we wont sign one, hows about you prove to me that there's proof that we will?
Never has in truth. He has an ability to dictate the tempo of games at times but he's far from being creative enough to be used as one. He's always needed someone in front of him to do that. Hence why him and Scholes/Giggs has worked so well, but him and Fletcher hasn't.
As opposed to their normally well sourced and accurate reporting of transfer activity?
De Rossi would be nice
We're done here.
I didn't realise I was speaking to a child, yep run along little boy best get on with that home work
Thing is though, we have Carrick and Fletcher who can play a defensive role for us, we don't have anyone in the squad that is capable of replacing Scholes. That is the role that is crying out to be filled.
I mean would we actually replacing Hargreaves? He may have only left but in truth he had been gone around 2 years ago.
Fergie was crying out for a player of his mould for Europe, he got him and unfortunately he got a cripple. I think it's why he kept with him so long despite the injuries, in the hope that he would eventually come back.
I would think a player like Hargreaves would be his biggest midfield target.
Giggsy can fill in scholes, so can Anderson.
The problem is, the playmaker we've been crying out for has now emerged and has definitely stepped up... That player is Rooney.
The striker we loved so since the Ruud days and we've been crying out for now lies in Chicharito...
Basically if Rooney was never converted playing in the hole, there wouldn't be a problem trying to get the Sneidjers, the Nasri's imo...
The problem is, the potential of Roo - Cheech have caused severe damage to the playermaker we need...
In saying that a playmaker wouldn't be such a bad idea, but for me, the only thing we lacked most was a player that can have play making abilities while also being able to protect the back four well too.
I saw that in Sahin... but he's gone to RM already... There's that class in Banega too... WHile he hasn't been linked he'd be the ideal MF we need, a box-to-box player...
Our 4-4-2 never really relied too much on a playmaker as our movement upfront and the pace+trickery from our wingers usually hit the jackpot but if we're looking for a player that'll improve us and make us fight Barca on their level, we'd need an all rounder...
Surely replacing Scholes would be a bigger priority? I would base this on the fact that we have lived without Hargreaves for the best part of 2 years, we have players that can play a defensive role but absolutely no-one that can be a playmaker like Scholes was.
Agreed
Nasri or Pastore would be perfect imo.
We need a flair midfielder with pace. Someone who'll make the run, suck in the defender and play the final ball.
We need a flair midfielder with pace. Someone who'll make the run, suck in the defender and play the final ball.
The thing is Scholes hasn't been a regular in the side now since the 07/08 season so I dont necessarily think he does need replacing per-say, cina's right about needing a ball winner. We'll always create chances even more so now with Rooney in the number 10 position however when our midfield was being dominated last season we didn't have anyone in there to put their foot in and win the ball back (this may be in part due to Fletcher's bad season).
Obviously in an ideal world we'd get say Modric as a better alternative to Carrick and someone in the Hargreaves mould to sit in alongside him.
Like I said though maybe if Fletch returns to his best form he can be that player or even Anderson...
The thing is, we played our best football with Giggs along side Carrick, that's the thing!
And I'll just add that Fletch and Carrick in a 2 are not great, not great at all.
I don't agree with you. He's considered a big signing because Arsenal, Liverpool and United all wanted him and thought that he was worth £16.5m because he's one of the best up-and-coming defenders in England. The fact that a transfer between two Premier League clubs completely went under the radar should tell you that sometimes transfers go unnoticed because they're done on the low, and not because the interest is low.
The papers report what they know, and when I say that I mean that they report everything they know, so obviously they knew feck all about this because either it happened quickly (most likely) or because it was deliberately done on the low.
I'd agree with that. Not sure anyone is disputing either fact though?
I think that was the point though, we played our best football with a creative player alongside either Carrick/Fletcher in midfield. Carrick produced his best form by far last season while playing a deep role and having someone more creative play alongside him.
TransferUpdate
Luka Modric subjected to Medical tomorrow noon. Expected to sign tomorrow night. Manchester United to unveil him by 3rd July #MUFC
Luka Modric subjected to Medical tomorrow noon. Expected to sign tomorrow night. Manchester United to unveil him by 3rd July #MUFC
Don't want to get into an argument over whether we will sign a midfielder or who that may be but I'll go on record and predict that Fergie will say the following words before the start of next season:
"Fletcher is like a new signing for us"
Your welcome to agree/disagree, but I think that Darren is in his mind as one extra midfielder, with that bit of steel, that we didn't have during the run in...
"Fletcher is like a new signing for us"
Your welcome to agree/disagree, but I think that Darren is in his mind as one extra midfielder, with that bit of steel, that we didn't have during the run in...
Would Varane be considered a big signing had we beaten Real to his signature? Was Bebe? In this country Jones is seen as quite a coup because the English media like to big up certain players, I'm not sure why Jones is thought of in such his esteem when Smalling wasn't but hey ho that's neither here nor there but in terms of the impact that I expect Jones to make next season I personally dont view him as a big signing not like De Gea who is replacing VDS (presumably) and Young.
I dont dispute that but Jones like Smalling, like Hernandez, like Anderson are all young players, I'd just expect if we're signing an established central midfielder this summer we'd have an idea as to who it is by this point whereas the main 3 (Modric, Nasri & Sneijder) all seem very unlikely to me given the source of the links thus far
4th and 5th signing.So says the chief
(thunder clap and lightening in back ground)hehehe
Did we sign anyone yet?
https://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/freebasa/Funny/whatthefeckisthisshit.jpg?t=1268150036
Behind Rooney to his left or right. That way Rooney can make his runs giving who ever the player is options on the right in Nani and Both Rooney or Hernandez to pass to, You can't back off a player like Pastore or Nasri because they'll just go past you and probably score.
We did but at the same time Carrick and Giggs did struggle against Arsenal and Barca and IIRC it was Carrick and Scholes that struggled against Liverpool.
Does Carrick not have the ability to be the creative player if he has someone like Hargreaves along side him?
Carrick & Modric or Carrick & Nasri might work wonders in certain games but other than maybe ball retention I'm not sure either of those combinations would mark a massive improvement in those games I mentioned above.
Like I said in an ideal world you'd want Modric to be the deep lined midfielder replacing Carrick with a Hargreaves alongside him but at this point in time just 1 midfielder would do let alone two
I would hope a central midfielder can pass the ball. But Carrick is not creative. Anderson tries more creative passes than Carrick. Carrick knicks the ball and looks to get rid of it. He used to pass it off to Scholes and now it's Giggs. He's not asked to be creative and can't remember when he has.
I read an interview about Iniesta (or Xavi) and in it they were talking about the key reason they are so creative which is because they don't pass to where a player is running... They force a player to run where they want them to go.
For me that's the definition of a creative play maker: Someone who dictates where people go. Scholes would also pass into space, not to players, and it was up to the players to read the play. Carrick just passes to people.
You can't be creative by passing to players, you must exploit and see passing lanes that others wouldn't and get the ball into those areas. Let Rooney run onto it or Hernadez.
I think you could well be spot on there, and if Fletcher returns to form and there's nothing to suggest he cant/wont then he will give us something we missed against dare I say Barcelona
One thing I also noticed when I was watching highlights of our games last season was the amount of games Anderson started at OT, could it be that next season our first choice pair is Fletcher and Anderson? Maybe with a ball winner like Fletch along side him Anderson wouldn't look so out of his depth away from home like he did last season when paired with Carrick?
Maybe a combination of Carrick & Giggs in certain games and Fletcher and Anderson in others? Probably the only combination we know that doesn't work well is Carrick & Fletcher. I cant see Giggs and Anderson being a success either for the same reasons Scholes and Anderson never worked
No, he just doesn't have it in him. In my opinion anyway, we need someone of a creative nature to play alongside Carrick.
That particular Carrick is a rather distant memory.
Could be onto something here, let's break it down into even simpler terms...
IF our new goalie can have a good first season, and our defence remains as good as it was last year then we won't concede many goals.
and IF our attack is as prolific as last year, then we will again do well on the attacking front...
and IF our midfielders can replicate their own form of last year (Giggs, Carrick, Anderson) and IF Fletch can chip in with more games, with Cleverly coming in where perhaps Gisbon and to a lesser extent Scholes may have played...
Then we may well win the league again! Last year the centre of our midfield was by far the weakest area of our team and squad, yet we still won the league, in spite of our indifferent away form. I have a feeling that if the midfielder Fergie thinks we need to improve that situation isn't available this summer, that he will be happy to take our new squad into next season, confident of securing another title.
Basically, he won't buy a central midfielder for the sake of it!
How about we go into cloning and mix Keane and Robson's genes to create the perfect midfield player and sign him on a free claiming we scouted him Bebe style....
ok I'm bored. don't kill me
ok I'm bored. don't kill me
I know
TBF though how long have we needed a new central midfielder? IMO it's been evident since Ronaldo left, I know Ronaldo wasn't a central midfielder but his sheer world class obviously papered over some cracks that we didn't know we had and it's been since Ronaldo left that Carrick's form has dipped
As well as Carrick did with Giggs last season Giggs isn't what anyone would consider one of the best central midfielders so who knows get one of those in and maybe we could see the Carrick of old again....
On the other hand Carrick is 30 now so maybe that was his purple patch and what we're seeing of him now is his best.
Maybe just blind optimism on my part
That much is true, if Fergie doesn't see a genuine top class midfielder out there I reckon he'd quite happily go into next season even if in the back of his mind he knows we're weak in a certain area.
He wont sign a Charlie Adam just to boost numbers
I agree with this. I can sympathise with Fergie at the moment because I look around football and, in my limited knowledge, cant see any truly standout candidates to step into out midfield. All the names being mentioned have their drawbacks and, for the money, probably aren't really all that worth persuing.
I think if we are after Nasri then we will allow that saga to drag on to the end of the summer when Arsenal will find themselves in a position that may force them to negotiate. Personally, I dont think I would sign Sneijder or Modric for the figures being mentioned.