Northern Ireland Thread

Irwinwastheking said:
Stolen shotguns, fertiliser bombs and crappy old handguns. Hardly the arsenal of a lean mean fighting machine.
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I'd be amazed if every dump was emptied, amazed.

If shit hit the fan and open violence broke out both sides would be armed to the teeth in a matter of a few days.
 
The Neviller said:
Good enough to gun down a Catholic policeman on the motorway on his way to work.
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You could gun someone down with a water pistol filled with acid. I am aware that a shotgun is a dangerous weapon, but not in the same league as an AK47. See the US gun control thread for more info, but I know you're not thick so you know exactly what I meant.

An army armed with farmstead weapons will not be as lethal as an army equipped with real weapons. Hence the reason there hasn't been a single successful major terrorist attack in NI since Omagh. One off kills, disgusting as they are, are not in the same league in terms of sophistication or ease of organisation and that's all these idiots are able to do despite their worst intentions.

moses said:
I'd be amazed if every dump was emptied, amazed.

If shit hit the fan and open violence broke out both sides would be armed to the teeth in a matter of a few days.
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I'd be amazed if there was a lot left TBH. I reckon they were allowed to keep a certain amount for personal protection and there was probably a certain amount went missing before De Chastalian had a look around. Getting major weaponary is not as easy as you seem to think. Even back in the day it took years to forge the links that the Provos had to get their military gear. The Libyans were a major supplier and I doubt they will be able to get much from them nowadays. Takes a while to get gear from Columbia and I don't know what kind of links they would now have with the likes of Al Qaeda.

I'm sure after the Ulster bank deal they have a few quid knocking around if needed, but again America is a different place these days and I can't see US funding for the IRA flowing post 911.

That's my uneducated guess work 2 cents anyway.
 
The reason they're not getting any 'spectaculars' (as they used to be called) is nothing to do with weaponry though. They have the equipment and the expertise to pull off 'operations' like that, the problem for them is that they are completely infiltrated from top to bottom. I would be very surprised if there was more than ten people in these groups that the police don't know. I genuinely believe that. It's obvious they are totally and utterly riddled with agents and informers.
 
An Irish Red said:
The reason they're not getting any 'spectaculars' (as they used to be called) is nothing to do with weaponry though. They have the equipment and the expertise to pull off 'operations' like that, the problem for them is that they are completely infiltrated from top to bottom. I would be very surprised if there was more than ten people in these groups that the police don't know. I genuinely believe that. It's obvious they are totally and utterly riddled with agents and informers.
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Oh, that's a major major part of it too, and I'm sure they still have some equipment and as you can't decommission minds they clearly will have the know how to build huge bombs. As I said above, it doesn't take a lot of money or specialist gear to make a car bomb. I know feck all about it but AFAIK some fertiliser and a detonator is pretty explosive but would take planning and preparation. How many times do you hear reports on the news about a viable device being discovered in transportation. Informants in these groups have saved a ton of lives over the past ten years.
 
An Irish Red said:
Official PSNI statistics released to the public.
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Had a look at them there. What quarter are you referring to? The most recent one shows a higher percentage of arrests in Foyle than in Larne.

For the 11/12 financial year there were 4182 stop and searches in G district with 150 arrests.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Oh, that's a major major part of it too, and I'm sure they still have some equipment and as you can't decommission minds they clearly will have the know how to build huge bombs. As I said above, it doesn't take a lot of money or specialist gear to make a car bomb. I know feck all about it but AFAIK some fertiliser and a detonator is pretty explosive but would take planning and preparation. How many times do you hear reports on the news about a viable device being discovered in transportation. Informants in these groups have saved a ton of lives over the past ten years.
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You always hear about viable devices being discovered because the police know everything they are doing, more often than not. Putting the whole moral debate to the side (and for the record I disagree with armed actions entirely) it makes absolutely no sense to join these groups. Even if you agree with the ideology and believe that these attacks are justified, you are still basically signing your own life away.

acnumber9 said:
Had a look at them there. What quarter are you referring to? The most recent one shows a higher percentage of arrests in Foyle than in Larne.

For the 11/12 financial year there were 4182 stop and searches in G district with 150 arrests.
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Daithi McKay was talking about it, not sure what quarter.
 
An Irish Red said:
You always hear about viable devices being discovered because the police know everything they are doing, more often than not. Putting the whole moral debate to the side (and for the record I disagree with armed actions entirely) it makes absolutely no sense to join these groups. Even if you agree with the ideology and believe that these attacks are justified, you are still basically signing your own life away.



Daithi McKay was talking about it, not sure what quarter.
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It's bullshit propaganda I'm afraid.

http://www.psni.police.uk/directory...istics/updates_stop_and_search_statistics.htm
 
The figures were from July until September 2009. I only heard Daithi talking about it a month or two ago, as well.

http://www.sebelfastsinnfein.com/constituencies/17408

There was a dramatic jump in the usage of s44, with figures more than doubling from the previous quarter. From July to September last year, 10,265 people were stopped and searched under S44 in the North.

*Stop and search powers continue to be invoked a vastly disproportionate number of times in nationalist areas. The constituency with the highest number of people stopped and searched during the July-September quarter was Foyle, with 2,203. While S44 stop and search powers were used 1,305 times in Strabane during the quarter, they were used only once in Larne, a town of around equal population.
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There's still a very significant discrepancy there although it's fair to see Daithi has been a bit creative with his analysis of the Foyle area (lumping pace in with S44 for Foyle). The yearly report found that stop and search legislation (S44) was used 1919 times in Strabane and only 9 times in Larne.
 
I just want to hear TN admit, that this never should have come to play and GB should of never invaded Ireland.
 
I'm from Strabane and I can tell you acu that it's an area that the police treat you like shit. You were asked there what age you are, and I wonder are you old enough to have lived through the troubles. Getting searched by the British army on the streets for no reason other than that they suspected that you were a Catholic was being treated as a second class citizen and now the PSNI are still at it albeit to a lesser extent.
 
JakeC said:
I just want to hear TN admit, that this never should have come to play and GB should of never invaded Ireland.
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Why do you care what I think about something that happened hundreds of years before I was born? I was born in Northern Ireland, do you care about me and my family, and how we view the country we were born in?

Would you like me to apologise for something I had no hand in?
 
Police in Ballymena have been dealing with instances of public disorder in the Ballykeel area, which included blocking the road, throwing a petrol bomb and setting bins alight outside Ballykeel Presbyterian Church, disrupting people going to the Sunday night service.
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For those of you who don't know Ballymena, the town is divided on religious lines into north and south (with the north being catholic/nationalist and the south being protestant/unionist). Ballykeel is an area at the bottom of the town (across the road from Harryville really) that is almost a hundred percent protestant.

What they hope to achieve trashing their own areas I'll never know. There's not a nationalist in the town that would care if they blocked Ballykeel for the next twenty years.
 
Well its pretty clear, and has been from the start, that those out in this flag protest arent the smartest bunch.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I'm from Strabane and I can tell you acu that it's an area that the police treat you like shit. You were asked there what age you are, and I wonder are you old enough to have lived through the troubles. Getting searched by the British army on the streets for no reason other than that they suspected that you were a Catholic was being treated as a second class citizen and now the PSNI are still at it albeit to a lesser extent.
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I would agree with that. Traditional nationalists areas have always been treated to a very different standard.

The Neviller said:
Well its pretty clear, and has been from the start, that those out in this flag protest arent the smartest bunch.
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It's baffling though. It scares me to think how stupid the people involved must be considering the fact that Willie Frazer has became a sort of de-facto leader of it all.

They can't even see that they are harming their cause more than anything.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
I'm from Strabane and I can tell you acu that it's an area that the police treat you like shit. You were asked there what age you are, and I wonder are you old enough to have lived through the troubles. Getting searched by the British army on the streets for no reason other than that they suspected that you were a Catholic was being treated as a second class citizen and now the PSNI are still at it albeit to a lesser extent.
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The police treat people like shit everywhere. I wouldn't discuss what happened to Catholics during the troubles as I was too young to know anything about it. I do dislike false facts being passed around to portray the police and Northern Ireland as a whole in a poorer light than needed. I know many police officers and know some of the shit they have to put up with. I'm using an example from a guy I know who works in a catholic area and that's the reason I use it other than a Protestant one but they are regularly called out to fake domestics and ambushed. In cases like these I think it's understandable that they may be more likely to stop people in Catholic areas as they are slightly more of a target there.
 
An Irish Red said:
The figures were from July until September 2009. I only heard Daithi talking about it a month or two ago, as well.

http://www.sebelfastsinnfein.com/constituencies/17408



There's still a very significant discrepancy there although it's fair to see Daithi has been a bit creative with his analysis of the Foyle area (lumping pace in with S44 for Foyle). The yearly report found that stop and search legislation (S44) was used 1919 times in Strabane and only 9 times in Larne.
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He's trying to paint an inaccurate picture of what happens and it's a joke that people buy it. In that same year the majority Protestant B district had more stops than predominantly Catholic A district.
 
An Irish Red said:
I would agree with that. Traditional nationalists areas have always been treated to a very different standard.



It's baffling though. It scares me to think how stupid the people involved must be considering the fact that Willie Frazer has became a sort of de-facto leader of it all.

They can't even see that they are harming their cause more than anything.
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How many Protestant areas have you lived in and what time period are you referring to?
 
acnumber9 said:
The police treat people like shit everywhere. I wouldn't discuss what happened to Catholics during the troubles as I was too young to know anything about it. I do dislike false facts being passed around to portray the police and Northern Ireland as a whole in a poorer light than needed. I know many police officers and know some of the shit they have to put up with. I'm using an example from a guy I know who works in a catholic area and that's the reason I use it other than a Protestant one but they are regularly called out to fake domestics and ambushed. In cases like these I think it's understandable that they may be more likely to stop people in Catholic areas as they are slightly more of a target there.
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Now now. Let's not be foolish here and try to claim everyone is treated equally badly by the police. I'm old enough to remember the troubles first hand and remember getting searched whilst being verbally abused for being a Catholic. Now the abuse isn't there anymore in a large way, but the attitude remains. Why do you think that the police are attacked in these areas? Largely because people feel mistreated by them.

Just like these flag gimps those who do call in fake domestics and attack the police are idiots. Even worse was a practice that used to (may still?) happen where a fire brigade would be called and attacked. fecking dickheads don't seem to realise that the firemen where part time lads from Strabane doing a life saving job.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Now now. Let's not be foolish here and try to claim everyone is treated equally badly by the police. I'm old enough to remember the troubles first hand and remember getting searched whilst being verbally abused for being a Catholic. Now the abuse isn't there anymore in a large way, but the attitude remains. Why do you think that the police are attacked in these areas? Largely because people feel mistreated by them.

Just like these flag gimps those who do call in fake domestics and attack the police are idiots. Even worse was a practice that used to (may still?) happen where a fire brigade would be called and attacked. fecking dickheads don't seem to realise that the firemen where part time lads from Strabane doing a life saving job.
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I would say the police of now treat people proportionally to how they are treated. I'm talking about the present, not the past. Do you think catholic officers go out to treat Catholics worse than Protestants? I know several peelers, Protestant and catholic, and not one would do that. Those who attack them may be a different matter though.
 
acnumber9 said:
I would say the police of now treat people proportionally to how they are treated. I'm talking about the present, not the past. Do you think catholic officers go out to treat Catholics worse than Protestants? I know several peelers, Protestant and catholic, and not one would do that. Those who attack them may be a different matter though.
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You're mates might not but plenty do. I've made it abundantly clear that it's nothing like the level of abuse from the past, but it's still there and still felt in Nationalist areas. Old scars take a long time to fully heal as the Unionist community know all too well. You can't expect the man on the street to just accept the force that he sees as a direct descendent from the one that kept him down for generations. The cops take flack but they shouldn't in turn abuse their power.

Also, police are not supposed to treat people proportionally to how they are treated and as a result abuse their powers. They are supposed to be above that.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
You're mates might not but plenty do. I've made it abundantly clear that it's nothing like the level of abuse from the past, but it's still there and still felt in Nationalist areas. Old scars take a long time to fully heal as the Unionist community know all too well. You can't expect the man on the street to just accept the force that he sees as a direct descendent from the one that kept him down for generations. The cops take flack but they shouldn't in turn abuse their power.

Also, police are not supposed to treat people proportionally to how they are treated and as a result abuse their powers. They are supposed to be above that.
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Why would catholic officers target Catholics? Are you suggesting Protestant officers are targeting them? If they are why are they more likely to do so than catholic officers targeting Protestants? Do you think everyone is sat down in briefs at the start of their shift and told to oppress/abuse a load of Catholics?

They're human beings. They're also the type of personality of people who like power. As such they're by and large going to be twats when they're given it. I imagine this is true the world over. Police aren't that popular anywhere.
 
acnumber9 said:
Why would catholic officers target Catholics? Are you suggesting Protestant officers are targeting them? If they are why are they more likely to do so than catholic officers targeting Protestants? Do you think everyone is sat down in briefs at the start of their shift and told to oppress/abuse a load of Catholics?

They're human beings. They're also the type of personality of people who like power. As such they're by and large going to be twats when they're given it. I imagine this is true the world over. Police aren't that popular anywhere.
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Have I once said anything about Catholic officers vs Protestant officers? I'm talking about the police service as a whole. Unfortunately the PSNI don't release the statistics broken down as search by officer's religion or I may be able to answer that for you. But as you seem to be stuck on this point I'll ask you this, does the LAPD have a very well justified reputation for being a hugely racist organisation which discriminate against minority. Now answer me do they also have a large number on minorities in their ranks? The two are not exclusive and I'd suggest that on that evidence neither is having Catholics in a police force that discriminates against Nationalists.

You're other point or question about how it's organised is a wee bit insulting too mate. "are they all told at the start of their shift to abuse Catholics" if you can't see why that's a bit too close to the bone then I think we should stop talking. But for the record, I'm not there at the shift meetings, nor am I sitting in a Landy either them on patrol either, but, no, I would guess that that's not how it is, but rather its a culture within the organisation that's a legacy from the RUC days. But I don't know. Maybe they do meet up like the Para's outside Derry and plan to put us in our place. Hopefully not.
 
As with any job, you have good employees and a minority that are not so good. Just think about your own workplace - there are some employees that are useless, don't follow procedures etc, while the majority do a decent job.

Then add to this the pressure that comes with the likelihood of being killed everyday you go to work, or even off duty go down the road to the shop. Imagine having to check your personal car every time you got into it to go about your daily life.

My Dad was originally from AndysTown, West Belfast, we lived in a Nationalist area and had our fair share of hard times from the Army & RUC. Even trying to poison our dog, and using the treehouse myself and my brothers built as a toilet! One of many stories...

My younger brother Ronan joined the PSNI to be fair and honest and a decent policeman as we all knew what it was like before the good Friday agreement. He had to check his car religiously, and did. Then one day he was getting something from the glovebox, so he didn't check his car since he wasn't moving it...and there was a bomb under there.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Have I once said anything about Catholic officers vs Protestant officers? I'm talking about the police service as a whole. Unfortunately the PSNI don't release the statistics broken down as search by officer's religion or I may be able to answer that for you. But as you seem to be stuck on this point I'll ask you this, does the LAPD have a very well justified reputation for being a hugely racist organisation which discriminate against minority. Now answer me do they also have a large number on minorities in their ranks? The two are not exclusive and I'd suggest that on that evidence neither is having Catholics in a police force that discriminates against Nationalists.

You're other point or question about how it's organised is a wee bit insulting too mate. "are they all told at the start of their shift to abuse Catholics" if you can't see why that's a bit too close to the bone then I think we should stop talking. But for the record, I'm not there at the shift meetings, nor am I sitting in a Landy either them on patrol either, but, no, I would guess that that's not how it is, but rather its a culture within the organisation that's a legacy from the RUC days. But I don't know. Maybe they do meet up like the Para's outside Derry and plan to put us in our place. Hopefully not.
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You are wasting your time, he is like a fecking stoner who wants to know the workings of the universe, or a child a really curious child unaware of the shit that goes on around him.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Have I once said anything about Catholic officers vs Protestant officers? I'm talking about the police service as a whole. Unfortunately the PSNI don't release the statistics broken down as search by officer's religion or I may be able to answer that for you. But as you seem to be stuck on this point I'll ask you this, does the LAPD have a very well justified reputation for being a hugely racist organisation which discriminate against minority. Now answer me do they also have a large number on minorities in their ranks? The two are not exclusive and I'd suggest that on that evidence neither is having Catholics in a police force that discriminates against Nationalists.

You're other point or question about how it's organised is a wee bit insulting too mate. "are they all told at the start of their shift to abuse Catholics" if you can't see why that's a bit too close to the bone then I think we should stop talking. But for the record, I'm not there at the shift meetings, nor am I sitting in a Landy either them on patrol either, but, no, I would guess that that's not how it is, but rather its a culture within the organisation that's a legacy from the RUC days. But I don't know. Maybe they do meet up like the Para's outside Derry and plan to put us in our place. Hopefully not.
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They don't do so for a really good reason, it's largely irrelevant, the police service is supposed to be neutral it can't and shouldn't matter what religion you are.

The 50-50 recruitment policy (which was pretty racist) has ended but it was very successful.

There is a large element of an us vs them mentality that develops in these cases on both sides. The RUC wasn't exactly well liked on either side of the divide, despite being almost totally protestant.
 
cacs said:
As with any job, you have good employees and a minority that are not so good. Just think about your own workplace - there are some employees that are useless, don't follow procedures etc, while the majority do a decent job.

Then add to this the pressure that comes with the likelihood of being killed everyday you go to work, or even off duty go down the road to the shop. Imagine having to check your personal car every time you got into it to go about your daily life.

My Dad was originally from AndysTown, West Belfast, we lived in a Nationalist area and had our fair share of hard times from the Army & RUC. Even trying to poison our dog, and using the treehouse myself and my brothers built as a toilet! One of many stories...

My younger brother Ronan joined the PSNI to be fair and honest and a decent policeman as we all knew what it was like before the good Friday agreement. He had to check his car religiously, and did. Then one day he was getting something from the glovebox, so he didn't check his car since he wasn't moving it...and there was a bomb under there.
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Totally get that there are good officers cacs, and it's a cnut of a job that I wouldn't do myself in a million years for the reasons you know all too well.

I still feel that there is a culture within the organisation that's discriminating towards nationalists. Not so much on an individual level, but as a group. This will take a few generations of brave people who are willing to take the risk to change.
 
Ramshock said:
You are wasting your time, he is like a fecking stoner who wants to know the workings of the universe, or a child a really curious child unaware of the shit that goes on around him.
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If somebody is going to say something I think it's fair they back it with actual reasons for it. Not just a feeling. Especially when it's accusing a group of people of being bigoted. Now, have you not got traffic to go out and play with?
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Have I once said anything about Catholic officers vs Protestant officers? I'm talking about the police service as a whole. Unfortunately the PSNI don't release the statistics broken down as search by officer's religion or I may be able to answer that for you. But as you seem to be stuck on this point I'll ask you this, does the LAPD have a very well justified reputation for being a hugely racist organisation which discriminate against minority. Now answer me do they also have a large number on minorities in their ranks? The two are not exclusive and I'd suggest that on that evidence neither is having Catholics in a police force that discriminates against Nationalists.

You're other point or question about how it's organised is a wee bit insulting too mate. "are they all told at the start of their shift to abuse Catholics" if you can't see why that's a bit too close to the bone then I think we should stop talking. But for the record, I'm not there at the shift meetings, nor am I sitting in a Landy either them on patrol either, but, no, I would guess that that's not how it is, but rather its a culture within the organisation that's a legacy from the RUC days. But I don't know. Maybe they do meet up like the Para's outside Derry and plan to put us in our place. Hopefully not.
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Sounds as if you haven't a clue what you're talking about then.
 
Irwinwastheking said:
Totally get that there are good officers cacs, and it's a cnut of a job that I wouldn't do myself in a million years for the reasons you know all too well.

I still feel that there is a culture within the organisation that's discriminating towards nationalists. Not so much on an individual level, but as a group. This will take a few generations of brave people who are willing to take the risk to change.
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What have they got to gain from discriminating towards nationalists?

It just seems to be your own personal experience dictating this, which is highly anecdotal, especially as virtually everyone thinks the police discriminate against them.
 
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