Northern Ireland Thread

Why do you want it though? What problems that we have currently are solved by it? We have been costing the UK money for years, why would they get rid now when we cause less trouble than before? I think we do know if there will be bloodshed. Look at the trouble we have for not having a flag up every day. If you think there won' t be war if a United Ireland came to fruition then you''re living in a fantasy.

You are living in denial mate plain and simple. First things first the mechanisms for full scale terror like we had in the 70's to later 90's are no longer there. The ability to purchase, import and store weapons and ammunition and also the ability to commit terror acts would be much harder in this day in age especially with tecnological advances in surveillance etc. Why do you think the likes of the CIRA have been unable to make that much noise despite being active and certainly looking for trouble?

Besides you completely ignored my points about retaining British citizenship or even dual sovereignty being a possibility. You seem more intent on worrying about why it can't happen than how its going to happen.
 
You are living in denial mate plain and simple. First things first the mechanisms for full scale terror like we had in the 70's to later 90's are no longer there. The ability to purchase, import and store weapons and ammunition and also the ability to commit terror acts would be much harder in this day in age especially with tecnological advances in surveillance etc. Why do you think the likes of the CIRA have been unable to make that much noise despite being active and certainly looking for trouble?

Besides you completely ignored my points about retaining British citizenship or even dual sovereignty being a possibility. You seem more intent on worrying about why it can't happen than how its going to happen.
You still haven't given a practical reason why it's in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland to form a United Ireland or what it would improve. You already have Irish citizenship so what's the difference? Why do you want it?
 
Ireland may 'unite' in some form but it will a long while before we can really believe it to be a United Ireland. At this point it would be unfair on the Unionist community to enforce it even if the citizens of both islands favoured it.
 
Ireland may 'unite' in some form but it will a long while before we can really believe it to be a United Ireland. At this point it would be unfair on the Unionist community to enforce it even if the citizens of both islands favoured it.

As a unionist I'm not sure I would consider it particularly unfair if was done democratically and with a real purpose. I just don't understand the need or desire for it at this time. It would only cause more problems than it solves.
 
As a unionist I'm not sure I would consider it particularly unfair if was done democratically and with a real purpose. I just don't understand the need or desire for it at this time. It would only cause more problems than it solves.

The immediate problems would be a result of how unfair it would be. Even if the majority vote it would still be really unfair legislation against a significant minorty in my opinion.

If you are talking about practical issues of administration, security and tax etc; I don't see any of them as insurmountable if everyone wants it.
 
The immediate problems would be a result of how unfair it would be. Even if the majority vote it would still be really unfair legislation against a significant minorty in my opinion.

If you are talking about practical issues of administration, security and tax etc; I don't see any of them as insurmountable if everyone wants it.

By problems I mostly mean the inevitable trouble. I also don't see how Ireland could sustain Northern Ireland when it can barely sustain itself. Too many jobs funded by the British government that would be in massive danger. I also don't see how it would make anybody's life better. The Irish are still Irish and the Britisih are still British. Leave the past in the past and start looking at how to integrate our communities better.
 
I pretty much agree, we just seem to be wording it differently. My only point was that if everyone was onboard and there was no hassle, the governing troubles would be worth it.
 
I pretty much agree, we just seem to be wording it differently. My only point was that if everyone was onboard and there was no hassle, the governing troubles would be worth it.

I think we do agree for the most part but I'm not sure I'd agree it would be worth it. Mostly because I don't see how it would change our lives for the better.
 
I think it might, but in a really flaky abstract lenghty process that I'm not stoned enough to divulge.

edit -again it presumes all are on board, which they patently won't be any time.
 
I think it might, but in a really flaky abstract lenghty process that I'm not stoned enough to divulge.

edit -again it presumes all are on board, which they patently won't be any time.

Get back to us when you're suitably stoned. It might give us a slightly better football team I suppose. Who wouldn't want to see Glenn Whelan and Sammy Clingan play in midfield together?
 
I think we do agree for the most part but I'm not sure I'd agree it would be worth it. Mostly because I don't see how it would change our lives for the better.

Are you knowledgeable at all about economics or how economies work? If not then theres no point in going into detail. I recommend researching online about the economy of a united ireland and the pros and cons of it.

Here is a snippet from wikipedia on what the immediate effects were, especially on Donegal after partition.

Effects of revolution and partition

After the War of Independence, 26 counties of Ireland gained independence from the United Kingdom as a dominion called the Irish Free State – but the 6 north-eastern counties remained in the UK as Northern Ireland. In 1937 the Irish Free State was re-established under its current name, Ireland.
There had already been a significant economic divide between the northeast 6 counties and the rest of Ireland, but following partition both regions further diverged. In the short term, this was accentuated by the nationalist policy of boycotting northern goods in response to attacks on Catholics and nationalists in Northern Ireland.[1]
Partition had a devastating effect on what became Ireland's border area. County Donegal, for example, was economically separated from its natural regional economic centre of Derry. The rail network struggled to operate across two economic areas, finally closing across a vast swath of Ireland's border area (the only cross-border route today is between Belfast and Dublin).[2]
However, overall it has been judged that, "the economic effects of partition were probably slight, certainly less significant than other economic forces, both national and international".[3]
The Free State had the advantage, not possessed by Northern Ireland, of fiscal independence but the violence and disruption of the years 1919-1923 had caused a great deal of economic damage. As a result of the Civil War of 1922-23, the Free State started out with a very serious budget deficit, which was not fully cleared until 1931
 
Incidentally who coined the phrase United Kingdom?
Because nowadays it's one thing GB is not.
 
Lads I already pay huge tax and government levies as it is, if I have to pay NI tax on top off that I'll be starting a war meself
 
United Ireland?

feck that we should crawl back to Westminster, cap in hand and full of apologies, begging to be saved from the Germans.

Jawohl

british_royal_family1.jpg
 
Are you knowledgeable at all about economics or how economies work? If not then theres no point in going into detail. I recommend researching online about the economy of a united ireland and the pros and cons of it.

Here is a snippet from wikipedia on what the immediate effects were, especially on Donegal after partition.

Effects of revolution and partition

After the War of Independence, 26 counties of Ireland gained independence from the United Kingdom as a dominion called the Irish Free State – but the 6 north-eastern counties remained in the UK as Northern Ireland. In 1937 the Irish Free State was re-established under its current name, Ireland.
There had already been a significant economic divide between the northeast 6 counties and the rest of Ireland, but following partition both regions further diverged. In the short term, this was accentuated by the nationalist policy of boycotting northern goods in response to attacks on Catholics and nationalists in Northern Ireland.[1]
Partition had a devastating effect on what became Ireland's border area. County Donegal, for example, was economically separated from its natural regional economic centre of Derry. The rail network struggled to operate across two economic areas, finally closing across a vast swath of Ireland's border area (the only cross-border route today is between Belfast and Dublin).[2]
However, overall it has been judged that, "the economic effects of partition were probably slight, certainly less significant than other economic forces, both national and international".[3]
The Free State had the advantage, not possessed by Northern Ireland, of fiscal independence but the violence and disruption of the years 1919-1923 had caused a great deal of economic damage. As a result of the Civil War of 1922-23, the Free State started out with a very serious budget deficit, which was not fully cleared until 1931

I'm not greatly knowledgable on economics. I didn't know I needed to be know to know a struggling nation would struggle further with adding a country with so many government funded jobs. How can anyone confidently say how an economy will grow with unification?

What relevance does your Wikipedia article have to the future?
 
I expect these rioters are hoping the flag will fly every day but the people of NI must remain strong and stick with the democratic process especially as it now seems to be heading in the right direction.
 
I don't think they should cave or anything, but the flag saga was a problem of their own making, do they seriously have nothing better to vote on ?

Bearing in mind this isn't a snap decision this is a comprise, they debated this shit out (I assume that's what happens, I'm incredibly naive) and from what I recall from hearing about stormont meetings it more like primary school hair pull fights.

The dedicated hours of resources the apparently pressing an incendiary concern of; 'Flags: Should we have to look at one on the way in, in the morning'.

As petty as the retards causing a fecking helicopter to be be whattering away above my house every night for the past week are, removing the flag wasn't a white knight decision in the first place.

Wankers the lot of them.
 
But Ramshock says it's better for us.

When did I say it was better for us? I said it was going to happen eventually and it would work in the long run. Your are the one that says that its impractical when in fact it wouldn't be any more impractical than the north remaining in the uk. But you know, you go on being puerile.
 
Ramshock, I ask this question out of genuine interest, no more, but if / when Northern Ireland becomes part of a UI, why will the problems simply vanish? Surely it will simply "switch"; rather than republicans being forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them, it will be loyalists forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them. There will still be a violently dissatisfied group of people living in the six counties, no?
 
That's the problem count

Plus then you have the increased financial burden on the south

Can't see it happening till the finances settle down which will be years

I can't see how a UI will happen in my lifetime and maybe not in my child's lifetime

Edit: actually in the scenario suggested by count, not only will they revolt against UI but also they will feel abandoned by the UK. Highly volatile situation
 
When did I say it was better for us? I said it was going to happen eventually and it would work in the long run. Your are the one that says that its impractical when in fact it wouldn't be any more impractical than the north remaining in the uk. But you know, you go on being puerile.

Why do you want it if you don't think it's better for us? This started by me saying I think the want for a United Ireland is driven by people refusing to leave the last in the past. You said I was talking shit but you haven't given a single reason as to why it should happen and why it would be better. You ar actually doing a great job of proving my initial point. You just don't want Northern Ireland to remain as part of the UK regardless of whether changing actually makes things better. Your tag line is remarkably apt.
 
Why do you want it if you don't think it's better for us? This started by me saying I think the want for a United Ireland is driven by people refusing to leave the last in the past. You said I was talking shit but you haven't given a single reason as to why it should happen and why it would be better. You ar actually doing a great job of proving my initial point. You just don't want Northern Ireland to remain as part of the UK regardless of whether changing actually makes things better. Your tag line is remarkably apt.

No its people who want to live in a state which they identify with. In the next 10 years over half the population of NI will have no strong sense of identity with the British link.

Nationalists are not refusing "to leave the past in the past" because they have never stopped been nationalist/republican.
 
No its people who want to live in a state which they identify with. In the next 10 years over half the population of NI will have no strong sense of identity with the British link.

Nationalists are not refusing "to leave the past in the past" because they have never stopped been nationalist/republican.

They're already Irish citizens. They already call their nation Ireland. What changes for the better?
 
Ramshock, I ask this question out of genuine interest, no more, but if / when Northern Ireland becomes part of a UI, why will the problems simply vanish? Surely it will simply "switch"; rather than republicans being forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them, it will be loyalists forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them. There will still be a violently dissatisfied group of people living in the six counties, no?

I talked about this earlier, how much harder do you think it would be it this world today with everything we say and do much harder to conceal. You don't think it would be harder to acquire the weapons etc needed for conflict? With all the advancements in technology and security measures etc it would be hard to operate and even hide. Surely you understand the IRA and SF realized this when they decided to ditch the war and try to stick to the political side of things.

I also imagine if and when reunification happens it will be a long drawn out process and elements of both the irish and british military will be involved.
 
That's the problem count

Plus then you have the increased financial burden on the south

Can't see it happening till the finances settle down which will be years

I can't see how a UI will happen in my lifetime and maybe not in my child's lifetime

Edit: actually in the scenario suggested by count, not only will they revolt against UI but also they will feel abandoned by the UK. Highly volatile situation

I understand your position as a northern irishman living in dublin and I agree somewhat but I am willing to bet it would happen in your childs lifetime.
 
Ramshock, I ask this question out of genuine interest, no more, but if / when Northern Ireland becomes part of a UI, why will the problems simply vanish? Surely it will simply "switch"; rather than republicans being forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them, it will be loyalists forced to live under a country, government and flag that doesn't belong to them. There will still be a violently dissatisfied group of people living in the six counties, no?

Whats going to happen when the Catholic population over takes the protestant population and they dont vote for a UI?

What are Sinn Fein going to say to the hard-liners? They have basically sold them a peace process on the back of demographics.

The reality is one side is always going to lose out. The GFA is basically a fudge. One the one hand unionists leaders are promising their will never be a UI and on the republican side they are telling the hardcore its only a matter of time.
 
:lol: what a crock of shit. You never have felt like a second class citizen in the land you were born and grew up in so you would't know what it feels like.

What currently makes you feel like a second class citizen? I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what changes for the better. Is it a difficult question to answer?
 
What currently makes you feel like a second class citizen? I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what changes for the better. Is it a difficult question to answer?

Are you trying to say that NI is totally egalitarian when it comes to Political views?