No transfers in January

[devilish]

We may not have direct replacements for those players but we've changed as a team. Hargreaves wasn't exactly a big loss, seeing how he only gave us a year of service effectively. Though having someone of his quality and experience in the squad would have been a bonus over the years. We've lost Ronaldo but we've become more of a team without him. I reckon we're not far off being very strong again. We've had a rough start but the right pieces are there. You don't always have to swap one player for a direct replacement. Rooney and Tevez were never really a natural combination. Rooney Hernandez is much more natural as is Rooney Welbeck they just need time to gel. You evolve as a team. The front four we have now; Rooney, Nani, Young and Welbeck/Hernandez, have the ability to be a superb front four. Yes Young has disappointed so far but we know he can do better and Welbeck and Herandez are both developing. Give them some more time and that's a great front four, capable of bringing great variety in the attack. Behind them you have a superb deep play maker in Carrick who's proving some of his critics wrong. If Fletcher was fit, then you'd have a great basis there for any front four to work off. As we know we've got Clev/Ando showing great potential too. I'm not saying a Modric wouldn't improve us, but he's not essential and there are few available midfielders out there who could come in to our system and actually improve us.

We've had problems though this season. The defence has constantly been changing we've had loads of injuries and we've lost a lot of experience there. We've rarely had the majority of our midfielders fit at the same time as well as other problems and like I said we're not exactly far off the top spot. Do you think City have a good team? And if you do, do you really believe that Toure and Barry as a combo are significantly better than Carrick and Fletcher/Giggs? Because I don't at all.

As for Fletcher well I think the two qualities you've listed are big assets. Hence why he's such an important player in big games. Over the years the likes of Arsenal can be said to have had more gifted midfielders like Fabregas, yet when the've played against Fletcher, I've not see Fletcher being dominated. His passing is much better then he's credited if he's not as good as others, he's got a great cross, excellent in the air, great personality. He's a good tackler and a very good reader of the game and closes down space really well. As for his partner well Carrick is more than capable of being the more creative force. Cleverley has the potential to step in to that role. We just need the time to show it. Like I said for all our problems we're only 2 points of City who we all acknowledge have been superb. Yes europe was a disappointed but there were plenty of issues there. I mean we barely had a midfield to play so blaming them is harsh. That's one of the biggest issues this season, the midfield are getting the blame unduly when it should be directed at others and on top of that we've barely had any fit midfielders so saying our options are poor isn't fair.

We've lost key players and we have tried to replace them with decent but inferior players. You can claim that to be beneficial as it increases 'teamwork' (Id wish Barca would give us Iniesta and Messi to boost their teamwork too) but lets face it, Berba is not Tevez, Valencia is nowhere near to Ronaldo, Young and Ando will never be Giggs and Scholes. We keep on talking about how big we are but you don't see Real and Barca selling their key players dont you? Quite contrary they bring in more quality. That's how a truly great club (not brand name or business) work.

Anyway we didn't end up were we ended by co-incidence. The team is decent but it has been in a declining slope for years and now we are reaping its fruit. Its already hard to replace legends like Ronaldo and Scholes with unlimited money let alone with a restricted wage structure which has the ability to scare off even players like Nasri (whom as stated is not a world beater). FFS with all the value players and teamwork boosters we have, a 38 yr old Giggs is still one of our best options. I wonder how would he fare if he was in the treble team

Ah I forgot we've got Pogba and Gibson. SAF has mentioned them once again in his interview. We are really spoiled for choice in CM don't we?

PS: If Pogba ends up fecking somewhere else it will probably boost our 'teamwork' more.

 

[Member 55443]

Just a thought - What would be the mood of the United camp had Ronaldo not turned out to be a star? What would the team have been like? Would it have been successful? Would we be extending our current worries back to 2004?

People say we have become 'more of a team' since Ronaldo left, but is that team good enough? Did Ronaldo cover up a sub-standard team? Granted we won the league since he left and reached a CL final, but that isn't always the best way to gauge how good a team is/was. Most peoples midfield concerns were put to the back of their minds while we had Ronaldo. I have to agree with everything devilish is saying.

 

[Ash_G]

We've lost key players and we have tried to replace them with decent but inferior players. Berba is not Tevez, Valencia is nowhere near to Ronaldo. Young and Ando will never be Giggs and Scholes. We keep on talking about how big we are but you don't see Real an Barca selling their key players dont you? Quite contrary they bring in more quality. That's how a truly great club (not brand name or business) work. We didn't end up were we ended by co-incidence. The team has been in a declining slope for years. Its already hard to replace legends like Ronaldo and Scholes with unlimited money let alone with a restricted wage structure which has the ability to scare off even players like Nasri (whom as stated is not a world beater).

Ah I forgot we've got Pogba and Gibson. SAF has mentioned them once again in his interview.

Valencia was a stop gap. Nani is fast becoming a great player in his own right and far more of a team player than Ronaldo is/was. Berba hasn't reached the heights he could off, but he was in the same class of quality as Tevez he just hasn't stepped up as expected. Anyway we now have other players who are a better fit then tevez. We haven't replaced Scholes yet but that takes time. Anyway you don't need to replace like for like. Ronaldo came in for Beckham and they're very different players and it took a number of years. Young has the potential to be excellent on the other flank. He and Nani together and can be a great combination and valencia is as good a squad winger as you'll find. Real might have managed to keep their key players but they haven't exactly had much success in recent seasons have they? And whilst you could argue Barca have stopped them in the league it's not like it's just been them, other teams have stopped Real in europe or in their domestic cups. Money isn't always the answer. Look at Chelsea. It hasn't fully worked out for them has it. They've missed out on the title more often then they've won it during the sugar daddy years.

Barca are great right now because they took the time to build a team. They haven't been a constantly successful team have they. It was a fair gap between the success they've experienced in recent years to their success prior to that. Much like we did with the likes of beckham/scholes coming through they've had a golden spell of players come through, aided by having the best player in the world.

Like I said you don't always have to do direct replacements. Unless you're going to spend stupid money and get spiralling wage costs. We've managed to stay successful for a sustained period by realising this. We're a much better team then this season has showed so far, and we've got all the pieces to be a great team. Yeah a central midfielder would help, but it's not going to make or break us, and like I said there's not many feasible targets out there who we could get.

 

[Ash_G]

Anyway we didn't end up were we ended by co-incidence. The team is decent but it has been in a declining slope for years and now we are reaping its fruit. Its already hard to replace legends like Ronaldo and Scholes with unlimited money let alone with a restricted wage structure which has the ability to scare off even players like Nasri (whom as stated is not a world beater). FFS with all the value players and teamwork boosters we have, a 38 yr old Giggs is still one of our best options. I wonder how would he fare if he was in the treble team

Ah I forgot we've got Pogba and Gibson. SAF has mentioned them once again in his interview. We are really spoiled for choice in CM don't we?

PS: If Pogba ends up fecking somewhere else it will probably boost our 'teamwork' more.

Well once again we have numerous injuries in the midfield at the moment. I suppose if Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov and Welbeck were injured, if we said we had Owen, Macheda and Diouf then we'd have a weak attack too and we were poor up front? Or if Rio, Vidic, Smalling and Jones were injured then we wouldn't be good enough at the back either?

What does it matter if Giggs would get in the treble team? When everyone is fit Giggs isn't first choice. Giggs has shown he's still quality and could play in the teams around us easily. Why does his age make him bad? And there must have been some issues with the treble team considering it had much less success in europe then we've experienced in recent years, picked up less points, it was all conquering that one year but what about the others?. I mean it's not really worth comparing with then, footballs changed a fair bit. I agree the overall quality of central midfielders has declined but that's a universal trait because off the direction modern football has gone in. Again who is available and can come in to our system and actually improve us right now?

As for the wage structure well would you want to put someone who as you say is not a world beater on 185K a week (apparently)? Seems a bit much. Especially when that then sets the trend. I'm sure the likes of Nani would want parity with that in any future contract talks. Do you think Nasri would add that much value to the team?

 

[devilish]

Valencia was a stop gap. Nani is fast becoming a great player in his own right and far more of a team player than Ronaldo is/was. Berba hasn't reached the heights he could off, but he was in the same class of quality as Tevez he just hasn't stepped up as expected. Anyway we now have other players who are a better fit then tevez. We haven't replaced Scholes yet but that takes time. Anyway you don't need to replace like for like. Ronaldo came in for Beckham and they're very different players and it took a number of years. Young has the potential to be excellent on the other flank. He and Nani together and can be a great combination and valencia is as good a squad winger as you'll find. Real might have managed to keep their key players but they haven't exactly had much success in recent seasons have they? And whilst you could argue Barca have stopped them in the league it's not like it's just been them, other teams have stopped Real in europe or in their domestic cups. Money isn't always the answer. Look at Chelsea. It hasn't fully worked out for them has it. They've missed out on the title more often then they've won it during the sugar daddy years.

Barca are great right now because they took the time to build a team. They haven't been a constantly successful team have they. It was a fair gap between the success they've experienced in recent years to their success prior to that. Much like we did with the likes of beckham/scholes coming through they've had a golden spell of players come through, aided by having the best player in the world.

Like I said you don't always have to do direct replacements. Unless you're going to spend stupid money and get spiralling wage costs. We've managed to stay successful for a sustained period by realising this. We're a much better team then this season has showed so far, and we've got all the pieces to be a great team. Yeah a central midfielder would help, but it's not going to make or break us, and like I said there's not many feasible targets out there who we could get.

I stick to what I said. The quality of the team has been on the decline for quite some time. BTW lets stop with the 'it needs time' BS. We've been knowing Scholes and Giggs were/are close to the end of their career for years. Despite that we didn't prepared for it apart from getting decent players who will never be at their level (ex Young, Valencia, Ando). We did the same thing about Keano (Fletch and Carrick) and now that the last world class player in CM had retired, it biting our arse once again.

Real has been facing those who thrashed us rwice after 10 minutes of play at least 2 times per year. So you can't really blame them for not being 'quite successful' can't you? I mean its not as if they faced Marseille and Shalke to reach the CL final like we did last year.

My point is simple. There are a good number of players who can improve us in CM. It only require us to get off our high horse, open the cheque book and get the players that we need.

 

[Ash_G]

Just a thought - What would be the mood of the United camp had Ronaldo not turned out to be a star? What would the team have been like? Would it have been successful? Would we be extending our current worries back to 2004?

People say we have become 'more of a team' since Ronaldo left, but is that team good enough? Did Ronaldo cover up a sub-standard team? Granted we won the league since he left and reached a CL final, but that isn't always the best way to gauge how good a team is/was. Most peoples midfield concerns were put to the back of their minds while we had Ronaldo. I have to agree with everything devilish is saying.

Thing is we've been in transition for a while now. It's been slower then I'm sure Fergie would like but I think we're almost there. Don't let this poor start to the season mask what is potentially a great team. Do you think City are a great team? And if you do, do you think that Toure and Barry are significantly better than Carrick and Fletcher/Giggs/Clev, whoever you pick?

 

[devilish]

Well once again we have numerous injuries in the midfield at the moment. I suppose if Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov and Welbeck were injured, if we said we had Owen, Macheda and Diouf then we'd have a weak attack too and we were poor up front? Or if Rio, Vidic, Smalling and Jones were injured then we wouldn't be good enough at the back either?

What does it matter if Giggs would get in the treble team? When everyone is fit Giggs isn't first choice. Giggs has shown he's still quality and could play in the teams around us easily. Why does his age make him bad? And there must have been some issues with the treble team considering it had much less success in europe then we've experienced in recent years, picked up less points, it was all conquering that one year but what about the others?. I mean it's not really worth comparing with then, footballs changed a fair bit. I agree the overall quality of central midfielders has declined but that's a universal trait because off the direction modern football has gone in. Again who is available and can come in to our system and actually improve us right now?

As for the wage structure well would you want to put someone who as you say is not a world beater on 185K a week (apparently)? Seems a bit much. Especially when that then sets the trend. I'm sure the likes of Nani would want parity with that in any future contract talks. Do you think Nasri would add that much value to the team?

Injuries had been hitting us for years. Some players seem not to be able to stay away from the treatment room (The twins, Ando etc). What have we done about it? It seems nothing at all.

What keeps Giggs from not being first teamer is his inability to play week in week out. He's certainly got more quality then all our CM put together which kind of bear witness of the quality of the side. Yet there's no one available to strengthen our CM....yeah right.

We didn't shyed away from starting a trend by selling Ronaldo for 80m and yet we fall short from competing by the same market rules we weren't afraid to start trends in

There are central midfielders who can improve our side. Its certainly isn't that hard to do so considering the quality (or lack of) we have. Whether we've got the funds/want to spend the funds is a whole different matter. So in few words since there is 'no Scholes' around we stick to Gibson.

 

[devilish]

Thing is we've been in transition for a while now. It's been slower then I'm sure Fergie would like but I think we're almost there. Don't let this poor start to the season mask what is potentially a great team. Do you think City are a great team? And if you do, do you think that Toure and Barry are significantly better than Carrick and Fletcher/Giggs/Clev, whoever you pick?

I think we're the only club who has 3 transitions per decade.

Shitty are not yet a great side. They are in a 'transition' period where a small club with big ambitions (budget) is forced to buy a number of mercenaries to reach places and attract the big guys. Its a situation similar to the Chelskis Ranieri side. No wonder Mancini is still keen on spending more dosh to the team.

 

[Member 55443]

Thing is we've been in transition for a while now. It's been slower then I'm sure Fergie would like but I think we're almost there. Don't let this poor start to the season mask what is potentially a great team. Do you think City are a great team? And if you do, do you think that Toure and Barry are significantly better than Carrick and Fletcher/Giggs/Clev, whoever you pick?

City will only be a great team in my book after they win the league at least a couple of times with more or less the same squad, at the moment they are a very good team who are bang in form, nothing more than that. To be honest with you, I have just as much gripe about the system we play in as I do with midfield personnel, Carrick is unquestionably better than Barry, and Toure is excellent imo. They have the magic Silva though, that is the big difference. Silva has all the on-the-ball qualities that I associate with Scholes & Iniesta. To me Giggs is the only player in our squad with such recognisable traits, but he doesn't do it week in week out, nor would I expect him to.

I agree that this 'poor start' shouldn't cloud judgement (mainly in Europe), equally as I refused to go OTT after the flying start to the league we had, but this has been festering for years, I think it's unfair to still put peoples concerns into the 'knee jerk' category at this point.

I can definitely see why people make a good case for Fletcher & Anderson, but this problem has just been going on for so long now, it feels like just too little too late. When was the last time a natural CM of ours got 10+ assists in the league? Or did anything spectacular in a game? World beating pass?

 

[Ash_G]

I stick to what I said. The quality of the team has been on the decline for quite some time. BTW lets stop with the 'it needs time' BS. We've been knowing Scholes and Giggs were/are close to the end of their career for years. Despite that we didn't prepared for it apart from getting decent players who will never be at their level (ex Young, Valencia, Ando). We did the same thing about Keano (Fletch and Carrick) and now that the last world class player in CM had retired, it biting our arse once again.

Real has been facing those who thrashed us rwice after 10 minutes of play at least 2 times per year. So you can't really blame them for not being 'quite successful' can't you? I mean its not as if they faced Marseille and Shalke to reach the CL final like we did last year.

My point is simple. There are a good number of players who can improve us in CM. It only require us to get off our high horse, open the cheque book and get the players that we need.

But Real haven't just been stopped by Barca have they? They've been knocked out of competitions by other teams over the years too, despite all this investment. And they've gotten no closer to Barca than we have.

As for Young, well he might not ever reach Gigg's level but he can still be very good. Like I said you don't have to replace like for like. Young could give us some excellent service and then who knows maybe someone like Morison steps up. You have to give these guys a chance. At Barca they gave the likes of Xavi time and that's what you have to do with the likes of Cleverley and Ando. Yes Ando has frustrated but the talent is there. We lost Keane and then went from strength to strength with Carrick. A very different player and maybe never as influential as Keane but certainly a very important player for us in this success. Scholes had been playing an ever decreasing role in recent years and we managed to get by. Like I've said we could use a scholes/modric player but again who's out there that we could get, without paying stupid money? Are they actually going to bring so much to the team that we couldn't wait to see how our young players develop whilst we look to identify a gem that can step up?

This team can be very good. I think Fergie has been working towards it and now it just needs time.

Carrick Cleverley
Nani Rooney Young
Welbeck

That could be great. Nani and Rooney are already top class. Welbeck and Cleverley have all the talent and just need time. Young has been disappointing but I've no doubt he can do better. That line up has all the talent it needs to be a success and is sound defensively. Again though it just needs time. That's where all the great teams have come from, players who are given the chance to build an understanding. That's how Barca got to be so good. You find talent and you let it develop. All of those players are clearly talented, most of them can/are top class, others can step up.

Who would you like us to sign?

 

[devilish]

But Real haven't just been stopped by Barca have they? They've been knocked out of competitions by other teams over the years too, despite all this investment. And they've gotten no closer to Barca than we have.

As for Young, well he might not ever reach Gigg's level but he can still be very good. Like I said you don't have to replace like for like. Young could give us some excellent service and then who knows maybe someone like Morison steps up. You have to give these guys a chance. At Barca they gave the likes of Xavi time and that's what you have to do with the likes of Cleverley and Ando. Yes Ando has frustrated but the talent is there. We lost Keane and then went from strength to strength with Carrick. A very different player and maybe never as influential as Keane but certainly a very important player for us in this success. Scholes had been playing an ever decreasing role in recent years and we managed to get by. Like I've said we could use a scholes/modric player but again who's out there that we could get, without paying stupid money? Are they actually going to bring so much to the team that we couldn't wait to see how our young players develop whilst we look to identify a gem that can step up?

This team can be very good. I think Fergie has been working towards it and now it just needs time.

Carrick Cleverley
Nani Rooney Young
Welbeck

That could be great. Nani and Rooney are already top class. Welbeck and Cleverley have all the talent and just need time. Young has been disappointing but I've no doubt he can do better. That line up has all the talent it needs to be a success and is sound defensively. Again though it just needs time. That's where all the great teams have come from, players who are given the chance to build an understanding. That's how Barca got to be so good. You find talent and you let it develop. All of those players are clearly talented, most of them can/are top class, others can step up.

Who would you like us to sign?

Having Barca in their league have clapped their wings at national level + their poor selection of managers (+ unfortunate run in the CL) has damaged them a bit. Im pretty confident that if last year they had our CL run (Marseille, Shalke and Chelsea) they would have ended in the CL final quite easily.

I see the wisdom in giving kids a chance. However I fear that we're using the kids simply as an excuse not to buy. I mean Scholes had retired and will soon be followed by Giggs. We knew about Fletch 'virus' since summer which leaves us with Ando (whom apart from his first season he had barely set the EPL on fire), Carrick (30 yrs old) and Cleverley. Considering that the likes of Morrison and Pogba will need at least 3 yrs to develop (by that time Carrick/Fletch will be close to retire) using them as an excuse not to buy is lame. Our midfield can certainly afford 2 new midfielders without risking of destroying these players career. I mean we've got 5 good CBs, 2 of which WC and yet no one has complained that such situation will ruin Evans career haven't we?

If we are truly a big club and the owners are so generous then why not spend the money? We've generated them (by selling Ronaldo) and its not as if we're going to spend it in an area that we don't need strengthening in.

 

[Ash_G]

Injuries had been hitting us for years. Some players seem not to be able to stay away from the treatment room (The twins, Ando etc). What have we done about it? It seems nothing at all.

What keeps Giggs from not being first teamer is his inability to play week in week out. He's certainly got more quality then all our CM put together which kind of bear witness of the quality of the side. Yet there's no one available to strengthen our CM....yeah right.

We didn't shyed away from starting a trend by selling Ronaldo for 80m and yet we fall short from competing by the same market rules we weren't afraid to start trends in

There are central midfielders who can improve our side. Its certainly isn't that hard to do so considering the quality (or lack of) we have. Whether we've got the funds/want to spend the funds is a whole different matter. So in few words since there is 'no Scholes' around we stick to Gibson.

Yeah I agree injuries are a concern. But some players have little niggles when they're young, look at Giggs. It can just be about finding the right pans for them. Though I do think we've left ourselves exposed at times. Again who? And if Giggs is still performing then again whats the issue? Giggs could probably get it a lot of teams tbh on his day. Diarra manages to play for Real, I'm sure Giggs could.

I think we're the only club who has 3 transitions per decade.

Shitty are not yet a great side. They are in a 'transition' period where a small club with big ambitions (budget) is forced to buy a number of mercenaries to reach places and attract the big guys. Its a situation similar to the Chelskis Ranieri side. No wonder Mancini is still keen on spending more dosh to the team.

And we're also one of the most successful teams around. I think I remember Ferige saying that he thinks a team can only be successful for four years before it needs to change. Ok well despite this most would say that they're playing superbly. Yet there central midfield options are, Toure Barry Milner, De Jong Hargreaves. I can't say I'm jealous.

City will only be a great team in my book after they win the league at least a couple of times with more or less the same squad, at the moment they are a very good team who are bang in form, nothing more than that. To be honest with you, I have just as much gripe about the system we play in as I do with midfield personnel, Carrick is unquestionably better than Barry, and Toure is excellent imo. They have the magic Silva though, that is the big difference. Silva has all the on-the-ball qualities that I associate with Scholes & Iniesta. To me Giggs is the only player in our squad with such recognisable traits, but he doesn't do it week in week out, nor would I expect him to.

I agree that this 'poor start' shouldn't cloud judgement (mainly in Europe), equally as I refused to go OTT after the flying start to the league we had, but this has been festering for years, I think it's unfair to still put peoples concerns into the 'knee jerk' category at this point.

I can definitely see why people make a good case for Fletcher & Anderson, but this problem has just been going on for so long now, it feels like just too little too late. When was the last time a natural CM of ours got 10+ assists in the league? Or did anything spectacular in a game? World beating pass?

They have Silva and we have Rooney. Rooney plays a bit further up the pitch and a bit more restrained but they can have similar influences. That's what I think we're working towards. Rooney in the hole, flanked by Nani and Young, with Welbeck ahead. That front four can be great but it needs time to gel like any team does. When we won our first title with Ronaldo after a couple of years of lagging behind, it wasn't a major signing that changed it, I mean Carrick was a big part but the biggest part was giving the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo time to gel in the team. We may not have won for three seasons but we reaped the rewards after.

As for the midfield getting those assists well lets take last season. Modric who had a great season got 3 goals and 2 assists in the league. Fletcher who we know struggled for obvious reasons and missed long chunks got 2 goals and 6 assists. Now clearly Modric is more creative than Fletcher. But the point is our midfield does contribute. Anyway I doubt you'll find many central midfielders if any that get 10+ assists. The games changed. As for passes well I remember Carrick doing some great passes and is certainly capable. Anderon is as well, I remember an audacious chip he did against Norwich. But anyway I don't disagree that we could use an extra quality player in the middle I'm merely saying we're not that bad and I can't exactly see who we could feasibly get.

 

[Ash_G]

Having Barca in their league have clapped their wings at national level + their poor selection of managers (+ unfortunate run in the CL) has damaged them a bit. Im pretty confident that if last year they had our CL run (Marseille, Shalke and Chelsea) they would have ended in the CL final quite easily.

I see the wisdom in giving kids a chance. However I fear that we're using the kids simply as an excuse not to buy. I mean Scholes had retired and will soon be followed by Giggs. We knew about Fletch 'virus' since summer which leaves us with Ando (whom apart from his first season he had barely set the EPL on fire), Carrick (30 yrs old) and Cleverley. Considering that the likes of Morrison and Pogba will need at least 3 yrs to develop (by that time Carrick/Fletch will be close to retire) using them as an excuse not to buy is lame. Our midfield can certainly afford 2 new midfielders without risking of destroying these players career. I mean we've got 5 good CBs, 2 of which WC and yet no one has complained that such situation will ruin Evans career haven't we?

If we are truly a big club and the owners are so generous then why not spend the money? We've generated them (by selling Ronaldo) and its not as if we're going to spend it in an area that we don't need strengthening in.

Well as I said Real have been knocked out of competitions by other teams than Barca. Investment doesn't guarantee success. And i'd rather have our model the theirs. Even Barca have struggled, didn't they have an issue with wages recently? And look at that crazy deal that did with Imbrahimavic.

Tbh I do agree that we should have signed someone in the summer with regards to Fletchers illness. They must had had some doubt. The only thing that I can't think off is that they only realised how serious it was this season. I think I remember someone saying that for a while it looks like a virus until the person relapses. So maybe they thought he was over it. It's the only excuse I can think off. Otherwise they took a gamble and its backfired. However I personally don't think the midfield has been the problem this season. I think the bigger issues have come from frailties at the back due to injuries and the exchange of youth for experience over the summer and an under-performing attack. The midfield isn't perfect but I don't think it'd been the main problem. Other factors have stopped us performing and knocked us out of europe.

My main issue regarding the midfield is that if we want to play with two central midfielders then there are really very few established players out there that we could actually sign. The likes of Modric, Alonso, Fabregas would be perfect but we can't get them for various reasons. Same with schweinsteiger. Other names like Ozil,silva etc wouldn't play in a two and would take the place of someone else in the team so it doesn't change that issue. I don't see De Rossi as an improvement on what we have. He'd be a bonus, especially now with the injuries we have but I don't think he'd take us to another level. And that's the point can they improve us and then can we get them. As I've said theres a general lack of quality central midfielders in todays game. We don't need to spend stupid money because the situation isn't that bad. I'd rather we look at try and find a gem and give the youngsters a chance. If someone like a Modric/scweinsteiger became available then I'd hope we look in to them.

Who do you want us to sign?

 

[devilish]

Yeah I agree injuries are a concern. But some players have little niggles when they're young, look at Giggs. It can just be about finding the right pans for them. Though I do think we've left ourselves exposed at times. Again who? And if Giggs is still performing then again whats the issue? Giggs could probably get it a lot of teams tbh on his day. Diarra manages to play for Real, I'm sure Giggs could.

Giggs had one problem which was the hamstring which used to hit him 1-2 per season. Once that was solved Giggs was as reliable as any other player and the treble side barely suffered from any injuries anymore.

Our team tend to suffer from various injuries per year. Nowadays We are barely capable of coming out with a regular defense and midfield. Yet, we stick to our physios, we stick to our coaches and our players.

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

You do feck all but moan on this forum, Dev.

You been moaning about how United are doing things wrong on this forum for 10 years.

You are a miserable feckwit.

Oh, and you forgot to tell us that despite how crap the club is, not only do we stick with the players, coaches and physios, but also the manager.

I wish you fecked off and e-died.

 

[devilish]

Well as I said Real have been knocked out of competitions by other teams than Barca. Investment doesn't guarantee success. And i'd rather have our model the theirs. Even Barca have struggled, didn't they have an issue with wages recently? And look at that crazy deal that did with Imbrahimavic.

Tbh I do agree that we should have signed someone in the summer with regards to Fletchers illness. They must had had some doubt. The only thing that I can't think off is that they only realised how serious it was this season. I think I remember someone saying that for a while it looks like a virus until the person relapses. So maybe they thought he was over it. It's the only excuse I can think off. Otherwise they took a gamble and its backfired. However I personally don't think the midfield has been the problem this season. I think the bigger issues have come from frailties at the back due to injuries and the exchange of youth for experience over the summer and an under-performing attack. The midfield isn't perfect but I don't think it'd been the main problem. Other factors have stopped us performing and knocked us out of europe.

My main issue regarding the midfield is that if we want to play with two central midfielders then there are really very few established players out there that we could actually sign. The likes of Modric, Alonso, Fabregas would be perfect but we can't get them for various reasons. Same with schweinsteiger. Other names like Ozil,silva etc wouldn't play in a two and would take the place of someone else in the team so it doesn't change that issue. I don't see De Rossi as an improvement on what we have. He'd be a bonus, especially now with the injuries we have but I don't think he'd take us to another level. And that's the point can they improve us and then can we get them. As I've said theres a general lack of quality central midfielders in todays game. We don't need to spend stupid money because the situation isn't that bad. I'd rather we look at try and find a gem and give the youngsters a chance. If someone like a Modric/scweinsteiger became available then I'd hope we look in to them.

Who do you want us to sign?

Its true that investment is not everything. Real has made its share of mistakes in terms of management. However sticking to a very weak CM because there's no Paul Scholes around to buy is also stupid as much as insisting on the present training regime\physios\players when they can barely play 2 months of regular football without vanishing in the treatment room is stupid. Its like sticking to crossbows just because one cannot buy the dead star.

Regarding CM, as stated before, we need to get off our high horse. We cant keep losing great players like Sneijder who went to Inter on cheap because he's not Scholes as much as we can't keep on not signing midfielders because their wages is too high. That's the market and we have to abide with it as much as Real had to pay 80m cash to get hold of Ronaldo.

Now De Rossi is no Roy Keane but he's better then all our defensive midfielders (Carrick is in my opinion more of a deep lying playmaker, Pirlo style of player) and he's towards the end of his contract. Same thing can be said about Montolivo whose rated as the natural successor of Pirlo. Is there any guarantees that they'll do well at OT? No player can give you that guarantee but it would certainly improve our chances of finally sorting the midfield once and for all. There's certainly a better option then neglecting it completely (as we did already) or try to sort things by playing wingers and defenders there.

 

[devilish]

You do feck all but moan on this forum, Dev.

You been moaning about how United are doing things wrong on this forum for 10 years.

You are a miserable feckwit.

Oh, and you forgot to tell us that despite how crap the club is, not only do we stick with the players, coaches and physios, but also the manager.

I wish you fecked off and e-died.

good morning cnut! How are you?

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

We keep on talking about how big we are but you don't see Real and Barca selling their key players dont you? Quite contrary they bring in more quality. That's how a truly great club (not brand name or business) work.

Is this your newest mantra? That United are not a big and great club?

 

[devilish]

Is this your newest mantra? That United are not a big and great club?

Calm down cnut. Breath in, Breath out.

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

What a fecking knobjockey

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

Calm down cnut. Breath in, Breath out.

Instead of playing the retard role, why don't you answer the question?

Is United not a big and great club?

 

[gooDevil]

If no one ever mentions Di Rossi as a possible United transfer again, it will be too soon.

 

[devilish]

Instead of playing the retard role, why don't you answer the question?

Is United not a big and great club?

What's the point of answering cnut? You know what I think of you and I know what you think of me and how you tend to act (insulting, twisting words around etc). Now come on, breath in breath out. Is it nice outside today in Norway? If yes go for a walk.

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

Why should I answer you cnut? You never say good morning or good evening. You lack of good manners.

You give retarded maltesers a bad name.

 

[devilish]

You give retarded maltesers a bad name.

Internet serious business

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

Internet serious business

Moaning cnut

 

[Ash_G]

Its true that investment is not everything. Real has made its share of mistakes in terms of management. However sticking to a very weak CM because there's no Paul Scholes around to buy is also stupid as much as insisting on the present training regime\physios\players when they can barely play 2 months of regular football without vanishing in the treatment room is stupid. Its like sticking to crossbows just because one cannot buy the dead star.

Regarding CM, as stated before, we need to get off our high horse. We cant keep losing great players like Sneijder who went to Inter on cheap because he's not Scholes as much as we can't keep on not signing midfielders because their wages is too high. That's the market and we have to abide with it as much as Real had to pay 80m cash to get hold of Ronaldo.

Now De Rossi is no Roy Keane but he's better then all our defensive midfielders (Carrick is in my opinion more of a deep lying playmaker, Pirlo style of player) and he's towards the end of his contract. Same thing can be said about Montolivo whose rated as the natural successor of Pirlo. Is there any guarantees that they'll do well at OT? No player can give you that guarantee but it would certainly improve our chances of finally sorting the midfield once and for all. There's certainly a better option then neglecting it completely (as we did already) or try to sort things by playing wingers and defenders there.

Well again it's not a weak central midfield, well it wasn't injuries have struck hard, we only need one player and like I said I don't think it's absolutely essential. Again sneijder doesn't play central midfield if we got him its likely we'd use him wide like Chelsea do with mata. Or we'd drop someone else from the team, not one of the two central midfielders, which sort of defeats the point. Having said that signing a sneijder/mata for that left wing spot would have been a great bit of business. As for not signing a midfielder becomes their wages or fees would be high, well I agree within reason that if the right player came along we should do what we could to get him. However when you consider spurs weren't even gonna sell modric for 40m then it's just getting stupid. Also signing nasri for huge wages is going to affect the whole wage structure of the club. We're not desperate for that creativity, like ive said city are managing to deal with toure and Barry as there midfielders. We can wait to identify someone who can come in that doesn't require stupid money, like how spurs picked up modric.

Ok but is de Rossi going to actually improve us? We want a more creative midfielder right? Over these past few years our defensive record has been superb and the likes of fletcher and carrick who are superb shields in the middle have been big parts of that. I'd take de Rossi right now though because we're low on experienced players with fletch out but he's not the answer to the crewtivity we're looking for. Can't say I know to much about the other guy but you've compared him to pirlo, now he might be a good signing I can't say without knowing more a out him but I don't reckon he's the answer as he sounds like a similar player to carrick. So again he sound like he'd be a good option to get especially as we need some more experienced players but he doesn't sound like he's the answer, but like I said I can't say too much about him without seeing him more. Though italien players tend to want to stay in Italy.

 

[devilish]

Well again it's not a weak central midfield, well it wasn't injuries have struck hard, we only need one player and like I said I don't think it's absolutely essential. Again sneijder doesn't play central midfield if we got him its likely we'd use him wide like Chelsea do with mata. Or we'd drop someone else from the team, not one of the two central midfielders, which sort of defeats the point. Having said that signing a sneijder/mata for that left wing spot would have been a great bit of business. As for not signing a midfielder becomes their wages or fees would be high, well I agree within reason that if the right player came along we should do what we could to get him. However when you consider spurs weren't even gonna sell modric for 40m then it's just getting stupid. Also signing nasri for huge wages is going to affect the whole wage structure of the club. We're not desperate for that creativity, like ive said city are managing to deal with toure and Barry as there midfielders. We can wait to identify someone who can come in that doesn't require stupid money, like how spurs picked up modric.

Ok but is de Rossi going to actually improve us? We want a more creative midfielder right? Over these past few years our defensive record has been superb and the likes of fletcher and carrick who are superb shields in the middle have been big parts of that. I'd take de Rossi right now though because we're low on experienced players with fletch out but he's not the answer to the crewtivity we're looking for. Can't say I know to much about the other guy but you've compared him to pirlo, now he might be a good signing I can't say without knowing more a out him but I don't reckon he's the answer as he sounds like a similar player to carrick. So again he sound like he'd be a good option to get especially as we need some more experienced players but he doesn't sound like he's the answer, but like I said I can't say too much about him without seeing him more. Though italien players tend to want to stay in Italy.

In my opinion, if we really want to utilize the 4-4-2 formation then we need a quality defensive midfielder and a creative midfielder. Carrick can compete with the former, Cleverley with the latter with one between Fletch and maybe Ando to act as backup. That would allow us to let Pogba and Morrison to go on loan for the next 2-3 years and return to OT once Carrick and Fletch start showing signs of decline (defensive midfielders tend to have a shorter career then attacking/creative ones for obvious reasons).

De Rossi is not Keano but he's got good technique, he's hardworking and he's a leader something that we currently lack in CM. A player like Montolivo would be a great partner to him since he's a deep lying playmaker whose good both in attacking and defending. Both players seems determined to leave their respective clubs and in my opinion they would consider United as a good destination.

Even if these two players won't be a massive upgrade in what we have it would certainly keep the current players on their toes and show that United mean business. Like any other employee, sometimes players need to be challenged for them to step up and be counted and we currently need that in CM

 

[pocco]

The thing is, I don't think De Rossi is that highly rated anymore and Montolivo in reality is probably no better than what we have. So if we Signed them and predictably still didn't look up to scratch in midfield, then what? You'd be on here still moaning that we need to sign yet another overhyped name. This is why you cant understand us not signing somebody, it's because you think there are loads of options out there when really they're pretty average and not worth persuing.

 

[devilish]

The thing is, I don't think De Rossi is that highly rated anymore and Montolivo in reality is probably no better than what we have. So if we Signed them and predictably still didn't look up to scratch in midfield, then what? You'd be on here still moaning that we need to sign yet another overhyped name. This is why you cant understand us not signing somebody, it's because you think there are loads of options out there when really they're pretty average and not worth persuing.

Or maybe its time for you to see other football rather then just the EPL

Oh well you're entitled to your opinion and Im entitled to mine. My point is simple, there are better players around then the likes of Ando, Gibson and Fletch. Now its all about whether the club affords to get these players or not.

 

[Ash_G]

In my opinion, if we really want to utilize the 4-4-2 formation then we need a quality defensive midfielder and a creative midfielder. Carrick can compete with the former, Cleverley with the latter with one between Fletch and maybe Ando to act as backup. That would allow us to let Pogba and Morrison to go on loan for the next 2-3 years and return to OT once Carrick and Fletch start showing signs of decline (defensive midfielders tend to have a shorter career then attacking/creative ones for obvious reasons).

De Rossi is not Keano but he's got good technique, he's hardworking and he's a leader something that we currently lack in CM. A player like Montolivo would be a great partner to him since he's a deep lying playmaker whose good both in attacking and defending. Both players seems determined to leave their respective clubs and in my opinion they would consider United as a good destination.

Even if these two players won't be a massive upgrade in what we have it would certainly keep the current players on their toes and show that United mean business. Like any other employee, sometimes players need to be challenged for them to step up and be counted and we currently need that in CM

I wouldn't mind signing one of them purely to boost our options, neither seem to be the solution to scholes going and I certainly wouldn't get both. Then we'd have too many midfielders. Carrick is showing he's still quality. Also the issue with the midfield this season has t been them underperforming they've just been injured we've hardly had a chance to play a fit pair consistently. The midfield is nowhere as bad as you suggest. Things are a bit different now with fletcher being out and we need some cover. But the midfield isn't bad we just need to get them fit. We could use a modric but it's not going to make or break our season.

 

[mu77]

Or maybe its time for you to see other football rather then just the EPL

Oh well you're entitled to your opinion and Im entitled to mine. My point is simple, there are better players around then the likes of Ando, Gibson and Fletch. Now its all about whether the club affords to get these players or not.

no not jst that - the other club must want to sell a player then that player must want to leave. so it's not just money.

 

[apotheosis]

no not jst that - the other club must want to sell a player then that player must want to leave. so it's not just money.

Yes it is im afraid, it's all about the money nowadays. How many players have been unavailable to City or Madrid or Barca? None that i can recall.

If the bid is high enough and the wages are large enough, the club will sell and any player in the world will move to triple their wages. We are making players unavailable to us by the restrictions placed upon what we are willing to pay, compared to those 3 clubs.

Dortmund don't want to sell Goetze and he probably doesn't want to move yet, but i can easily imagine that a £60m bid to the club and a wage offer of £200k a week might change those respective stances pretty quickly.

I am not saying i think we should pay those fees, but we cannot expect Chairman to sell to us at a lesser price than they can get from others. Nor can we expect players to move for less money than they can make at those other clubs. I am not saying it is impossible for us to do business this way, but it is certainly much more difficult to find a top quality player at the prices we are willing to pay.

I believe this is why we are struggling to identify the 'right player', because the right player now requires a reasonable chairman to set a fair price, and a reasonable agent who will not expect his client to be paid the going rate. On top of that we also need the likes of Chelsea, City, Barca and Real to not show interest in the same player.

Again not an impossible task, but certainly much more difficult to find such favourable circumstances to sign a top quality player.

We may simply have to accept that City have now made it more about money than ever before, and unfortunately for us, our current owners are simply unable or unwilling to match such lucrative financial packages.

 

[devilish]

no not jst that - the other club must want to sell a player then that player must want to leave. so it's not just money.

In the cases mentioned above, their contracts will run out in 6 months time. I guess those clubs will want to sell right?

 

[Eyepopper]

Yes it is im afraid, it's all about the money nowadays. How many players have been unavailable to City or Madrid or Barca? None that i can recall.

.

Really? I seem to remember Kaka turning down megabucks from City.

I also remember Valencia ignoring interest from Madrid when he was at Wigan.

And didn't Spurs tell Chelsea to feck off when they went after Modric last summer?

 

[Cold_Boy]

You do feck all but moan on this forum, Dev.

You been moaning about how United are doing things wrong on this forum for 10 years.

You are a miserable feckwit.

Oh, and you forgot to tell us that despite how crap the club is, not only do we stick with the players, coaches and physios, but also the manager.

I wish you fecked off and e-died.

good morning cnut! How are you?

Is this your newest mantra? That United are not a big and great club?

Calm down cnut. Breath in, Breath out.

What a fecking knobjockey

Instead of playing the retard role, why don't you answer the question?

Is United not a big and great club?

What's the point of answering cnut? You know what I think of you and I know what you think of me and how you tend to act (insulting, twisting words around etc). Now come on, breath in breath out. Is it nice outside today in Norway? If yes go for a walk.

Moaning cnut

*MJ Popcorn Gif*

 

[buckooo1978]

when is tom cleverley due back?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Really? I seem to remember Kaka turning down megabucks from City.

I also remember Valencia ignoring interest from Madrid when he was at Wigan.

And didn't Spurs tell Chelsea to feck off when they went after Modric last summer?

And Berbatov turned down the oil money.

 

[Wumminator]

You do feck all but moan on this forum, Dev.

You been moaning about how United are doing things wrong on this forum for 10 years.

You are a miserable feckwit.

Oh, and you forgot to tell us that despite how crap the club is, not only do we stick with the players, coaches and physios, but also the manager.

I wish you fecked off and e-died.

*clap clap clap*

 

[apotheosis]

Really? I seem to remember Kaka turning down megabucks from City.

I also remember Valencia ignoring interest from Madrid when he was at Wigan.

Well done, you have managed to remember the only 2 instances of that happening in recent memory. Seriously though, the point was meant to be a general one, there is little merit in using the exception to disprove the rule.

I also seem to remember Milan being quite willing to do the transfer, and Kaka only turned City down for Madrid. So Kaka was in fact available due to the fee being offered was accepted by Milan.

So my point still stands there are very, very few 'unavailable' players, if the fee is substantial enough and the wages high enough, even the most unlikely of deals can be struck. Players are only unavailable to us because we are unwilling or unable to pay the top rate in either transfer fees or wages.

I am not even saying we should pay that type of money, only that this is why i believe we are struggling to find the right player. The right players are obviously out there, but the question remains are they available at the prices we are willing or able to pay?

So far the answer has been no, hopefully that will change, but the circumstances required under which we are to attain them, are much less favorable for us than they are for City, Madrid and Barca to get the players they want.