NM vs EAP @Karachi

[NM]

I remember you having massive issues with Cronje and Aamir in previous drafts.


Almost every team in this draft has a fixer each...

Yeah, I don't like em one bit. My only weakness was Azhar, but I think he's a cnut too.

Well, we all have opinions.

During that era, after Sachin the only person worth looking forward to was Jadeja. He had abysmal partners in Mongia and Robin Singh...but one can never question his ability to speed up the run rate.

I'd definitely take Jadeja over Shakib. I refuse to rate Shakib highly. His stats are buffed at home and against lesser nations. And the #1 all rounder is just a fancy stat as of now. Who are his notable competitors now, Hafeez? Not even comparable to the greats of Hadlee, Imran, Botham etc. I'll stake my life savings that Viv will murder him on the pitch.

I refuse to rate JAdeja the way you refuse to rate Shakib. If you look at his stats, I posted them when he plays against the test playing nations, and his bowling especially, is still pretty good. Those stats are the same as most of your modern players, so it's BS if you don't rate him then. Hypocrisy

His average is 40 actually. And he's better at solidifying the innings. Opening him, will see him hog a lot of balls and the RR for the first 10 overs will be around 4-4.5 an over (And I am being kind here). That will put a lot pressure on who follows next. Because he has the proclivity for a long Innings, I expect him to last longer than Kirsten. So even those first 15-20 overs might be a little too slow.

I went by cricinfo filters. Kirsten averages 58/59 in Pak, so he and Chanders is the stable platform we need for the likes of Kohli to explode on. His team isn't going to be setting a huge score to chase anyway.

Why won't you expect Kirsten to last long? One of the best of the 90s, and averages 58 in Pak in a decent sample size. If we aren't taking Pak into consideration, why even bother with locations?

Similarly, you have to account for the fact that Kohli and Dhoni are chasing. Kohli averages 60 while chasing, and is a modern GOAT. Dhoni is the best finisher ever.

 

[NM]

Lamb has a weakness against spinners. He'd end up facing Swann, one of the best spinners in modern era. Pakistan's pitches may assist pace a bit, but they still are spin friendly pitches in general.

I don't rate Shoaib Malik's bowling or Shakib Hassan's all round performance all that highly. Viv Richards probably has better bowling figures than Malik. His overall bowling would be sorely tested with these weakness. Aaqib Javed and Swann are far better performers in this regard. Weak bowling vs GOAT ODI batman is too big a big mismatch to overcome.

And overall as I mention he lacks a steady presence who can hold the innings together. Chanderpaul can do that if he was not opening.

OH come on buddy. Javed is not as good as Flintoff. He's (arguably) as good as O'Donnell if not worse. With regards to holding an innings together, that's what Lamb is for. Additionally, Malik averages 45 in Pakistan. Definitely won't hold an innings together right?

You can keep selling Viv (and you should) but he's all you have as an accelerator. Him and Jones maybe. Harris is gash in the subcontintent. I get a few early wickets and it will fall like a house of cards

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

As for our bowlers, Freddie is a much better bowler than aaqib in the limited overs game. Aaqib has an overall average of 31 vs freddies 24 .Freddie can swing it both ways and also mastered reverse swing, just like aaqib. As for Simon O'Donnell he is a wily bowler who stifles runs and makes it hard for batsmen to score. In the 1987 final for instance, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that he was key in Aussie win by 7 runs. He had figures of 1/35 off 10 bowling as third change bowler (where McDermott and the likes conceded at 4.5 rpo). Scoring against him isn't easy like it's being made out here. Swann will get no help here for spin and even if he gets, his spin is ineffective going by his record in India.

I think you are overrating them a bit. Freddie's record in National Stadium is 10 overs for 57 runs if you want to drill down into minute stats. Avg of 57! And Simon's one good match was against Pakistan in that WC. He was not even a top 5 bowler in that tournament iirc.

Shoaib was decent, but Shakib is good. He's not appreciated as much because 1/3 of the games came against minnows or whatever. But considering this era is full of big hitting and insane runs, he's held his own very well on more than one occasion. He can match or come close to matching Swann in my opinion.
To add to that, Swann in Indian conditions was considerably worse (albeit Indians are experts at Spin).

You should look at quality of opposition here. Bowling to Viv and batting at tail end means he may end up facing my pacemen. Totally a different level than he has performed in.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Similarly, you have to account for the fact that Kohli and Dhoni are chasing. Kohli averages 60 while chasing, and is a modern GOAT. Dhoni is the best finisher ever.

In all honesty Dean and Viv setting targets is just better!

 

[Norris]

I went by cricinfo filters. Kirsten averages 58/59 in Pak, so he and Chanders is the stable platform we need for the likes of Kohli to explode on. His team isn't going to be setting a huge score to chase anyway.

Why won't you expect Kirsten to last long? One of the best of the 90s, and averages 58 in Pak in a decent sample size. If we aren't taking Pak into consideration, why even bother with locations?

I didn't say he won't last long. I said if anyone is going to last long among your openers, it more likely to be Chanderpaul. He has a tendency to eat up too many balls for my liking. He's a solid batsmen no doubt. But you want you start to your chase to be solid. You definitely don't want to invite more pressure. And with Chanderpaul opening, I just feel, he will be very very cautious.

And I do disagree with your notions that it won't be a huge score to chase anyway. Even if they move along at 4 an over, and add to the fact we are talking about modern day pakistani pitches (Have no Idea what they are like now). We could be looking at 270. Then you have the Viv factor. He was an absolute beast in those times. Just imagine how much better he would be now. So a score over 300 is possible. But If ever you needed to chase a score over 300, Dhoni and Kolhi are your men. But I just fear Chanderpaul opening there might burden you a little.

 

[prath92]

Lamb has a weakness against spinners. He'd end up facing Swann, one of the best spinners in modern era. Pakistan's pitches may assist pace a bit, but they still are spin friendly pitches in general.

I don't rate Shoaib Malik's bowling or Shakib Hassan's all round performance all that highly. Viv Richards probably has better bowling figures than Malik. His overall bowling would be sorely tested with these weakness. Aaqib Javed and Swann are far better performers in this regard. Weak bowling vs GOAT ODI batman is too big a big mismatch to overcome.

And overall as I mention he lacks a steady presence who can hold the innings together. Chanderpaul can do that if he was not opening.

Shoaib Malik is a very good batsman. If you look at their records, Malik has a much better record than his counterpart Flower, and has an average of 40+ while playing in Pakistan so I would argue that Malik would probably fare much better than Flower in this situation.

Besides none of the batsman besides Richards can be considered GOAT by any stretch (Dravid at best but he wouldnt come in top 5 for India in ODI). Dhoni and Kohli themselves are considered top batsmen in LOIs. Allan Lamb may have struggled against Spin (again you cannot have n average of 40 not being able to play Spin) but swann isnt even close to a decent ODI bowler in the subcontinent. Shakib as NM said, is a subcontinent bowler and can bowl better at these pitches than Swann.

I think you are overrating them a bit. Freddie's record in National Stadium is 10 overs for 57 runs if you want to drill down into minute stats. Avg of 57! And Simon's one good match was against Pakistan in that WC. He was not even a top 5 bowler in that tournament iirc.

Its not stadium wise but overall record in Pak. Coz if we are going stadium wise, we could argue that Richard Hadlee wont be effective here as he hasnt bowled in the subcontinent at all. Overall Fred has played 8 games here and averages 25 which is a very good average.

As for O'Donnell he took 9 wickets at 29 average with an economy of 4.3 in the 1987 WC. For comparison, Wasim Akram, a subcontinent bowler took 7 at an average of 42 and economy of 4.65. Or Kapil Dev who took 5 wickets at 51.8 with an aconomy of 4.2.

 

[Norris]

You should look at quality of opposition here. Bowling to Viv and batting at tail end means he may end up facing my pacemen. Totally a different level than he has performed in.

Honestly, I don't think it will even reach him. Either Kohli and Dhoni will win it for NM, or they will falter after that. So not taking into account what he can do with the bat. He can bat btw, it's just that he won't be good batting with the tail.
As for his bowling, yeah, Viv will definitely get the better off him, but he'll keep the others in check. He has a good economy for a modern day spinner. As a bowler, he's actually pretty clever. He knows what sort of deliveries to ball and line to pitch it at. He has very good consistency with that. And if he can do his job in the middle overs at keeping it tight, maybe taking a wicket or two, it will be really difficult for you to get get going in the last 10 overs.

 

[prath92]

I didn't say he won't last long. I said if anyone is going to last long among your openers, it more likely to be Chanderpaul. He has a tendency to eat up too many balls for my liking. He's a solid batsmen no doubt. But you want you start to your chase to be solid. You definitely don't want to invite more pressure. And with Chanderpaul opening, I just feel, he will be very very cautious.

And I do disagree with your notions that it won't be a huge score to chase anyway. Even if they move along at 4 an over, and add to the fact we are talking about modern day pakistani pitches (Have no Idea what they are like now). We could be looking at 270. Then you have the Viv factor. He was an absolute beast in those times. Just imagine how much better he would be now. So a score over 300 is possible. But If ever you needed to chase a score over 300, Dhoni and Kolhi are your men. But I just fear Chanderpaul opening there might burden you a little.

chanderpaul is an extremely intelligent cricketer who scores runs at a decent rate. He is a very competent batsman and can play accoring to the situation though. Anyway as openers, both are comfortably quicker than Dravid and Marsh. So the chance of it reaching 15 or so overs at a run rate of 4-4.5 is more applicable to EAP imo.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

As for his bowling, yeah, Viv will definitely get the better off him, but he'll keep the others in check. He has a good economy for a modern day spinner. As a bowler, he's actually pretty clever. He knows what sort of deliveries to ball and line to pitch it at. He has very good consistency with that. And if he can do his job in the middle overs at keeping it tight, maybe taking a wicket or two, it will be really difficult for you to get get going in the last 10 overs.

He has an average of 43.40 in Pak. And against my batsman it'll be worse than that. I seriously doubt his ability to contain or take wickets. Viv scored 181 in the same ground btw. Swann at his worst in India averages 32.50. Viv Richards has better bowling stats than Shakib in Pak!

 

[prath92]

He has an average of 43.40 in Pak. And against my batsman it'll be worse than that. I seriously doubt his ability to contain or take wickets. Viv scored 181 in the same ground btw. Swann at his worst in India averages 32.50. Viv Richards has better bowling stats than Shakib in Pak!

If you ignore his 2 games against the associates Ireland and Netherlands like you do for Shakib, his average is 40, which isnt all that great. Especially since India offers more for spinners than Pakistan pitches, its safe to say that there isnt all that difference here due to Swann bowling. Especially to batsmen like Kohli and all who will rip him apart with ease. Not to mention, Shoaib Malik, MS Dhoni are among the highest scorers in this ground as well.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Stats for more than 50 overs in the country (avoids skewing):

Bowler #3
Simon O'Donnell in India: 89.2 overs at average of 30.00 (not enough stats in Pak)
Aaqib Javed in Pakistan: 225 overs at average of 24.23

Bowler #4
Flintoff in India: 131 overs at average of 35.47
Swann in India: 104 overs at average of 32.56

Shakib does not have 50 overs in either country, so just Pak stats to keep this relevant

Bowler #5
Shakib al Hasan: 44 overs for at average of 43.40
Chris Harris: 45.2 overs at average of 26.44

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

If you ignore his 2 games against the associates Ireland and Netherlands like you do for Shakib, his average is 40, which isnt all that great. Especially since India offers more for spinners than Pakistan pitches, its safe to say that there isn't all that difference here due to Swann bowling. Especially to batsmen like Kohli and all who will rip him apart with ease. Not to mention, Shoaib Malik, MS Dhoni are among the highest scorers in this ground as well.

I haven't ignored anything for Shakib. Those are stats as it is the site.

And the difference between sub continental pitches is quite minimal. All you can say is Pak pitches tend to support pace a bit. Reading anything else into it is just too vague.

 

[Norris]

chanderpaul is an extremely intelligent cricketer who scores runs at a decent rate. He is a very competent batsman and can play accoring to the situation though. Anyway as openers, both are comfortably quicker than Dravid and Marsh. So the chance of it reaching 15 or so overs at a run rate of 4-4.5 is more applicable to EAP imo.

Yeah, that I would agree with.

He has an average of 43.40 in Pak. And against my batsman it'll be worse than that. I seriously doubt his ability to contain or take wickets. Viv scored 181 in the same ground btw. Swann at his worst in India averages 32.50. Viv Richards has better bowling stats than Shakib in Pak!

You keep alluding to the 181, but that was against a Sri Lankan side with shit bowlers. The Lankans were as good as Minnows back then. They lost every match in that world cup. Viv is no doubt a great, the greatest even, but I doubt he would get anywhere close to that in this game.
And regarding Shakib's poor record in Pakistan, yes, I agree it is poor. But his team in general is poor. He is often the primary spinner for his team, unless Abdur Razzak makes an appearance. So there is no way he can ever really control the middle overs with such a poor support cast. That won't be the case here. Most batsmen in your team will think of him as the weak link and go after them (And by go after them, you know I mean like how a snail would chase a stream of ants), and that's the sort of opportunity Shakib would relish.

The Swann I remember was very average. He had a stock off spinner and that was about it. Hardly any variations, hardly any surprise element. He was a much better test bowler than an ODI bowler.
From Cricinfo

As the new millennium dawned, there was a fear that traditional offspinners were becoming defunct at the highest level. Swann was one of a special band who challenged the notion. He did not have a doosra, but he had cunning, flight and turn. He was also helped by a striking number of left-handed batsmen at the highest levels and a growing use of technology which made it more likely that umpires would uphold lbw appeals. Of his 255 wickets, 70 were lbw, compared to Laker's 32 from 193; 121 of his victims were left-handers whereas Laker only returned 32. When he retired, he felt irreplaceable.

A Career close to 13 years in ODI history and yet only 79 games. That tells you a lot. And it wasn't exactly like England were bubbling with a huge pool of spin talents.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I can't believe that even though one team has two of my favourite ever cricketers ever in Dhoni & Kohli I am having to think hard about this, I think that is because EAP also has a very good team and NM/Prath made some really weird selections. Openers are massive in ODI cricket and Kirsten /Chanderpaul vs Marsh/Dravid is not very impressive.I can't get my head around Shakib tbh, when you already have Flintoff plus Dhoni in the team it made much more sense to pick a better spinner than look for an all rounder.

 

[Norris]

I can't believe that even though one team has two of my favourite ever cricketers ever in Dhoni & Kohli I am having to think hard about this, I think that is because EAP also has a very good team and NM/Prath made some really weird selections. Openers are massive in ODI cricket and Kirsten /Chanderpaul vs Marsh/Dravid is not very impressive.I can't get my head around Shakib tbh, when you already have Flintoff plus Dhoni in the team it made much more sense to pick a better spinner than look for an all rounder.

Please don't tell me Jadeja was the "better" spinner you were referring to

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

You keep alluding to the 181, but that was against a Sri Lankan side with shit bowlers. The Lankans were as good as Minnows back then. They lost every match in that world cup. Viv is no doubt a great, the greatest even, but I doubt he would get anywhere close to that in this game.
And regarding Shakib's poor record in Pakistan, yes, I agree it is poor. But his team in general is poor. He is often the primary spinner for his team, unless Abdur Razzak makes an appearance. So there is no way he can ever really control the middle overs with such a poor support cast. That won't be the case here. Most batsmen in your team will think of him as the weak link and go after them (And by go after them, you know I mean like how a snail would chase a stream of ants), and that's the sort of opportunity Shakib would relish.

The Swann I remember was very average. He had a stock off spinner and that was about it. Hardly any variations, hardly any surprise element. He was a much better test bowler than an ODI bowler.

The 181 was just an indication of his comfort in the stadium. I don't expect him to replicate that feat now.

Bad stats, yes. Poor team, yes. Stats padded at home against minnows, yes. But hey, he's a fantastic bowler. Will contain the run rate and take 2 wickets. Not sure how to argue against that, tbh! Let's just agree to disagree. Being a better test bowler has nothing to do with Swann's ODI stats. Let's ignore the stats when opinions are better indicators, huh?

Flower, Jadeja and Harris are all capable of big hits and accelerating the run rate and Hadlee is a good lower order batsman. Not as much as Dhoni obviously, but that snail analogy is ridiculous!

 

[prath92]

Stats for more than 50 overs in the country (avoids skewing):

Bowler #3
Simon O'Donnell in India: 89.2 overs at average of 30.00 (not enough stats in Pak)
Aaqib Javed in Pakistan: 225 overs at average of 24.23

Bowler #4
Flintoff in India: 131 overs at average of 35.47
Swann in India: 104 overs at average of 32.56

Shakib does not have 50 overs in either country, so just Pak stats to keep this relevant

Bowler #5
Shakib al Hasan: 44 overs for at average of 43.40
Chris Harris: 45.2 overs at average of 26.44

Clearly Pak pitches are more helpful for pace bowlers than Indian pitches. A simple comparison shows that Javed has an average of 31 in 80 overs in India with an economy of 5.75 so its not crazy that pak pitches have better pace and bounce. O'Donnell has an economy of 4.36 in his 89 overs in India at an average of 30 so O'Donnell is comfortably the better LOI bowler. Even Malcolm Marshall averages 31.7 in 11 games in India (to be fair, he averages 29 in pakistan which in itself isnt that great). Which is what makes Nathan Bracken's average of 21 from 18 games in India all the more impressive. Meaning Bracken could probably get much more from this wicket than Marshall and is a much more dangerous bowler here than he is given credit for.

 

[Mani]

I'm not sure about the 136 number. Cricinfo says 59 froat's what I have. Dunno where Prath got that number from.

I'd like to point out that aside from Viv, he has NOBODY on his team with a good strike rate. None. He isn't going to get a big score here. On the other hand, I'm chasing while batting til 9 and having multiple big hitters at the death

He got D.Jones one of the better player from that late 80's Australian side.Him along with Viv can stablise those slow start from his Openers.

 

[prath92]

I can't believe that even though one team has two of my favourite ever cricketers ever in Dhoni & Kohli I am having to think hard about this, I think that is because EAP also has a very good team and NM/Prath made some really weird selections. Openers are massive in ODI cricket and Kirsten /Chanderpaul vs Marsh/Dravid is not very impressive.I can't get my head around Shakib tbh, when you already have Flintoff plus Dhoni in the team it made much more sense to pick a better spinner than look for an all rounder.

Kirsten is a very top Opening batsman. I disagree that you need batsmen like Gilchrist to be effective openers. Batsmen like Mark Waugh had similar strike rates to Kirsten and Chanderpaul. So Its not as if they are sloths either. They were arguably some of the more dependable openers in the teams they played for.

Again shakib is a decent spinner and much better than people give him credit for and the support for spin in pak pitches is very less anyway so i really doubt it will even come to such a big deal here anyway.

 

[NM]

He got D.Jones one of the better player from that late 80's Australian side.Him along with Viv can stablise those slow start from his Openers.

But can they do it better than my guys? It's a comparism. I'm chasing. He has to put a big score on, and I don't think he can do it IMO.

@Edgar Allan Pillow India and Pak pitches aren't comparable man. You have to be kidding.

 

[Norris]

Bad stats, yes. Poor team, yes. Stats padded at home against minnows, yes. But hey, he's a fantastic bowler. Will contain the run rate and take 2 wickets. Not sure how to argue against that, tbh! Let's just agree to disagree. Being a better test bowler has nothing to do with Swann's ODI stats. Let's ignore the stats when opinions are better indicators, huh?

I never ever suggested that he's a fantastic bowler. My whole point from the beginning was that he's not as bad as you think (You said you don't rate him and Shoaib at all iirc and I just said he's good) and the rest were hypotheticals.

And Swann's ODI stats are good, no doubt about that. I din't go into the finer details of why he's only played 79 games in a 13 year career, but my guess is he was regularly dropped or England tended to play without a regular spinner. And if you are going to just go by the numbers, might as well have all the best stats based players. Opinions count too. NM has already pointed out that some of the games in India were against associates, ignoring which takes his ave upto 40. And also let's not forget that his team are laden with players who are experts at spin. So the Swann effect is pretty much moot and probably on par with Shakib.

But the spinners are probably the weakest of the bowling line-ups anyways.

 

[Norris]

But can they do it better than my guys? It's a comparism. I'm chasing. He has to put a big score on, and I don't think he can do it IMO.

@Edgar Allan Pillow India and Pak pitches aren't comparable man. You have to be kidding.

Dean Jones was very good NM. Dean Jones and Viv at 3-4 vs Kohli and Lamb, I'd have to take the former.

 

[Norris]

Again shakib is a decent spinner and much better than people give him credit for and the support for spin in pak pitches is very less anyway so i really doubt it will even come to such a big deal here anyway.

This. But I don't know how much joy the other bowlers would get either. I don't see much swing available for them and none of them reverse swing.

 

[Mani]

[QdE="NM, post: 18864845, member: 59541"]But can they do it better than my guys? It's a comparism. I'm chasing. He has to put a big score on, and I don't think he can do it IMO.

@Edgar Allan Pillow India and Pak pitches aren't comparable man. You have to be kidding.[/QUOTE]
I don't rate Lamb but I rate Kristen/kohli/Dhoni in this situation, I like to know what would be the ideal target score EAP would set here.

 

[prath92]

And Allan Lamb is very useful in chases as well. I'm not really sure of the "he cant play spin" theory but even then against the 4 fast bowlers he will be very helpful.

He once hit Bruce Reid for 16 runs off the last over to win a game. In 1986 against Australia in SCG.

Spoiler: Lamb 16 off final over

 

[Norris]

@Mani, how do you always manage to incompletely quote people? . You did it so many times in our convo too...

 

[Norris]

Btw, can the likes of Marshall and Haddlee be considered death over specialisits ? Anyone have an idea ?

 

[Norris]

And Allan Lamb is very useful in chases as well. I'm not really sure of the "he cant play spin" theory but even then against the 4 fast bowlers he will be very helpful.

He once hit Bruce Reid for 16 runs off the last over to win a game. In 1986 against Australia in SCG.

Spoiler: Lamb 16 off final over

But look at that score card. He was on 58 in 97 balls. Almost a 60 SR. That's not good enough by any means.

 

[prath92]

This. But I don't know how much joy the other bowlers would get either. I don't see much swing available for them and none of them reverse swing.

imo pak pitches without swing is like Tarantino films without swearing.

 

[Mani]

Javed bowling is underrated here he got 2 seven wtk haul aganist India in sharjah, there shouldn't be much difference in wkts from sharjah/pak/India,having said that bowlers like Bracken and simon should exploit these condition better.
Like to see stats for simons from 87 Wc SF vs Pakistan, if anyone could share.

 

[Mani]

@Mani, how do you always manage to incompletely quote people? . You did it so many times in our convo too...

Blame it on my outdated mobile

 

[Norris]

imo pak pitches without swing is like Tarantino films without swearing.

Lol. I should rephrase that then. I don't know whether the likes of Haddlee, Marshall, Roberts can swing it or make the most of those conditions. All three very well before my time or before I was interested in the sport. I think Haddlee could from the few YouTube vids I have seen of him. Bracken Nathan could do well there though I reckon.

 

[prath92]

But look at that score card. He was on 58 in 97 balls. Almost a 60 SR. That's not good enough by any means.

thats just that innings though. His career strike rate is 76. His contemporary Dean Jones has a SR of 73 for comparison purposes.

 

[NM]

I'm just going to keep quiet because @prath92 is kicking ass and taking names. I can be chief selector. He can be team coach

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@Edgar Allan Pillow India and Pak pitches aren't comparable man. You have to be kidding.

Well it is not a straight match, but still comparable imo.

Spin - 10% lesser than India
Pace - 10% more than India
Swing/Seam - 20% more than India

Is how I picture the pitch to be. How do you view the pitch?

 

[prath92]

Javed bowling is underrated here he got 2 seven wtk haul aganist India in sharjah, there shouldn't be much difference in wkts from sharjah/pak/India,having said that bowlers like Bracken and simon should exploit these condition better.
Like to see stats for simons from 87 Wc SF vs Pakistan, if anyone could share.

He had figures of 10-1-45-0. Bowled 4th though. Economy of 4.5.

Lol. I should rephrase that then. I don't know whether the likes of Haddlee, Marshall, Roberts can swing it or make the most of those conditions. All three very well before my time or before I was interested in the sport. I think Haddlee could from the few YouTube vids I have seen of him. Bracken Nathan could do well there though I reckon.

Both Marshall and Roberts afaik had natural movement available from the pitches and Their main weapon was accuracy and extreme pace.

Bracken was a very dangerous bowler in taking wickets early on.

Spoiler: Bracken - best wickets

 

[Norris]

thats just that innings though. His career strike rate is 76. His contemporary Dean Jones has a SR of 73 for comparison purposes.

Hmm, for some reason, I thought Jones's SR would be closer to 80. But still, he's clearly the better No 4. He has close to 50 50's whereas Lamb has only half of that with a difference of 40 games.

And about your video, I don't how to consider it. We are talking about players in their prime (Still don't know what that means tbh, it's not like Football where you can clearly see a decline!).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Lol. I should rephrase that then. I don't know whether the likes of Haddlee, Marshall, Roberts can swing it or make the most of those conditions. All three very well before my time or before I was interested in the sport. I think Haddlee could from the few YouTube vids I have seen of him. Bracken Nathan could do well there though I reckon.

In terms of swing capability I'd rank them as:

Hadlee (King of Swing)
Marshall / Bracken (Similar swing profile, though I rate Marshall as overall better bowler)
Aaqib Javed (playing at home advantage. And reverse swing was so popular in Pak that time)

I'm not that sure about Roberts and Simon tbh. Up the NM/Prath to provide confirmation here. Roberts was pure pace from what I recall, though swing must have played a part in any great speed merchant. No clue on Simon.

 

[Norris]

In terms of swing capability I'd rank them as:

Hadlee (King of Swing)
Marshall / Bracken (Similar swing profile, though I rate Marshall as overall better bowler)
Aaqib Javed (playing at home advantage. And reverse swing was so popular in Pak that time)

I'm not that sure about Roberts and Simon tbh. Up the NM/Prath to provide confirmation here.

Aah, so I was right about my assumption on Haddlee. Thanks. Btw, what about your Death bowling ? Javed and Marshall ? This is probably crucial, since Dhoni, Kohli are the best at finishing a game off no matter who the opposition.

 

[Norris]

Just read, Javed could reverse swing. Massive advantage there.