Nigel De Jong

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
Could be a very cheap and important utility signing if this comes through. His defensive awareness would fit in very well with the rest of the creativity in the squad and the younger center backs would appreciate his work a lot.
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Another reason why he'd make sense. If we go into the season with just the centre backs we already have (which would worry me), then I'd say an experienced holding player will be needed.

As much as the idea of having a team of new young players is exciting, Jones and Smalling would suffer in my opinion.
 
NMF said:
It's his defensive ability that's the problem. Remember the derby at the Etihad last season? He spent all game chasing shadows getting caught out, not tracking runners the speed was to quick for him and he can't tackle.

Overall his better further up the field but we have better players in those positions.
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I don't think this was happen if Fellaini was our deepest midfielder, though. As it was, against City, he had the job of going forward and being our most advanced midfielder, but also having to track back. It also didn't help that he was partnered with an immobile Carrick.

Also, I'm not sure how you can say he can't tackle. Sure he gives away a good amount of fouls, but so does De Jong, Tiote, etc. Last season, he was our best tackler this season, averaging 2.8 tackles per game, and i'm sure that stat would be better had his job were to protect the back four.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I think you misread my text, my text was directed at players who particularly rely on having great fitness level especially in terms of pace and stamina. You won't see the worlds best striker peaking when he is 38, you will see wingers and forwards peak around 27-30 rather and after that just because a decline has started doesn't mean it is abrupt.

For dribbling wingers it is quite rare to be above 31 and still be the best in the world and for strikers it is quite rare to be considered the best in the world if you are over 31 as well. If you look back in history and take the best players you will see that it is rare to find anybody at their peak when they are above 35 years old you would probably have to go 80 years back to see the best player in the world be at that age.

99% of the times the WPOTY is below 32.

@JPRouve
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I don't see the relevance of any of that here since we're not talking about dribbling wingers - we're talking about a holding midfield player who will most likely sit In front of the back four and break ip play, and probably have to cover less ground than the vast majority of players in other positions.

As it is, I still disagree with a lot of what you're saying. Quite obviously I'm not saying that across the board with every player age isn't a factor - clearly a 30 year old player who is completely reliant on pace may not be a wise investment. You don't have to be a genius to work that out.

But you're suggestion seems to be they at 29 and above, players have nothing to offer which I totally disagree with. RVP is another great example of what experience brings over youth.

Obviously some players will be fitter than others, some will play longer, but I personally have no issue with bringing in a 29 year old with plenty left in the tank, with plenty of experience. In short done older players are good business, some others wouldn't be depending on the player.

Your last point is the most obvious of the lot, but the most bizzarre. Not every player in a team needs to be a potential ballon d'or winner. Only one player wins that a year, there are clearly plenty of other players who have played well at various ages.

Also, take a look at Arjen Robben in the World Cup - arguably one of the best players there. I assume you think we should side step him as well?
 
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I'm fed up with mid table teams carving through our midfield at will.

De Jong is a natural midfield destroyer we've lacked a player to break down opposition attacks and protect our back four properly (sorry Carrick) he'd be a good squad signing and at 6m it's a Bargain. Some are acting like he doesn't have a brain his a capable passer.
 
RedRover said:
Obviously some players will be fitter than others, some will play longer, but I personally have no issue with bringing in a 29 year old with plenty left in the tank, with plenty of experience.
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And let's not forget that, in De Jong's case, he effectively cost peanuts. Hard to make an argument against him at the prices being quoted.
 
Bwuk said:
Only Herrera, De Jong and Carrick would be of the level we require, and Carrick is getting on a bit. Fletcher, Cleverley, Fellaini etc aren't good enough.
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But for now .... Ckeverley, Fellaini and Fletcher would make perfectly fine subs or squad players ...... they just aren;t starters.
 
Globule said:
And let's not forget that, in De Jong's case, he effectively cost peanuts. Hard to make an argument against him at the prices being quoted.
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Indeed. Not a pretty signing, not the answer to our problems but he'd be another option and useful to have - if other targets don't come off.
 
revel911 said:
But for now .... Ckeverley, Fellaini and Fletcher would make perfectly fine subs or squad players ...... they just aren;t starters.
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With no CL football :mad: that's a fine selection of midfielders. With fewer games our first choice midfielder won't need to be rested as much. Obviously I wouldn't say no to signing some more midfielders, but if we were to only get Herrera and De Jong this summer I'd consider that a success. Then hopefully we'll be in a position to attract better players next summer with the offer of CL football.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
I don't think this was happen if Fellaini was our deepest midfielder, though. As it was, against City, he had the job of going forward and being our most advanced midfielder, but also having to track back. It also didn't help that he was partnered with an immobile Carrick.

Also, I'm not sure how you can say he can't tackle. Sure he gives away a good amount of fouls, but so does De Jong, Tiote, etc. Last season, he was our best tackler this season, averaging 2.8 tackles per game, and i'm sure that stat would be better had his job were to protect the back four.
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Any high quality team he gets found out, his sloppiness on the ball in deep areas is scary, I wouldn't trust him in the holding role and either would Van Gaal.

His not a good tackler. His rash and slow and always seems to be behind the play ending with him fouling the opposition.
 
RedRover said:
I don't see the the the the relevance of any of that here since we're not talking about dribbling wingers - we're talking about a holding midfield player who will most likely sit In front of the back four and break ip play, and probably have to cover less ground than the vast majority of players in other positions.

As it is, I still disagree with a lot of what you're saying. Quite obviously I'm not saying that across the board with every player age isn't a factor - clearly a 30 year old player who is completely reliant on pace may not be a wise investment. You don't have to be a genius to work that out.

But you're suggestion seems to be they at 29 and above, players have nothing to offer which I totally disagree with. RVP is another great example of what experience brings over youth.

Obviously some players will be fitter than others, some will play longer, but I personally have no issue with bringing in a 29 year old with plenty left in the tank, with plenty of experience.

Your last point is the most obvious of the lot, but the most bizzarre. Not every player in a team needs to be a potential ballon d'or winner. Only one player wind that a year, there are clearly plenty of other players who have played well at various ages.
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De Jong is not a midfielder who relies on his brilliant reading of the game to intercept passes, he is a very physical player who needs his stamina, pace and aggression to be who he is. Remove that and you don't have much left so if we want to buy 29 year olds we should target players more like Carrick/Lahm than De Jong who relies on their great reading of the game.

My suggestion is not that players above 29 has nothing to offer, but that if a players game is very reliant on his physical attributes then one should be vary to purchase that player if he is already getting closer to 30. Any player who is getting close to thirty is going to be a risky signing fitness wise.

I don't see why we would spend 6 millions on De Jong for a year or two of football when there are better players who are around 25 who will be cheap as well. Most players who can continue playing well until 33-35 are of the more technical type like Scholes, Pirlo and Xavi. Xavi is 34 and his decline started 2-3 years ago and since he hasn't been the same player.

Players peak at 27-29, after that it is about damage control and some players have such great overall attributes that they can make up for it but the fact is that most don't.
 
RedRover said:
Indeed. Not a pretty signing, not the answer to our problems but he'd be another option and useful to have - if other targets don't come off.
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Agree with most of that, except I think he would solve quite a few of our problems. As NMF mentions above, teams have found it too easy to get past our midfield for years now. Having someone willing to throw himself into tackles and be the nasty spoiler we've been crying out for will strengthen us defensively in a big way.
 
Annahnomoss said:
De Jong is not a midfielder who relies on his brilliant reading of the game to intercept passes, he is a very physical player who needs his stamina, pace and aggression to be who he is. Remove that and you don't have much left so if we want to buy 29 year olds we should target players more like Carrick/Lahm than De Jong who relies on their great reading of the game.

My suggestion is not that players above 29 has nothing to offer, but that if a players game is very reliant on his physical attributes then one should be vary to purchase that player if he is already getting closer to 30. Any player who is getting close to thirty is going to be a risky signing fitness wise.

I don't see why we would spend 6 millions on De Jong for a year or two of football when there are better players who are around 25 who will be cheap as well. Most players who can continue playing well until 33-35 are of the more technical type like Scholes, Pirlo and Xavi. Xavi is 34 and his decline started 2-3 years ago and since he hasn't been the same player.

Players peak at 27-29, after that it is about damage control and some players have such great overall attributes that they can make up for it but the fact is that most don't.
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£6 million gets you nothing these days. Powell cost £5 million after a year in League 2. Or is buys Bebe as an even worse example.

As it is there are clearly better holding players in the world, I don't see that I've said anything different, but those players may not be available. If not the the manager knows him, he will know what the manager wants and expects and he has plenty of PL and CL experience in a top side at the top level. It would be almost risk free when you weigh it up.

For me you take it on a player by player basis with transfers - regardless of age. From watching this World Cup he looks in great shape and shows no signs of going over the hill imminently so Id be quite happy with it.
 
Globule said:
Agree with most of that, except I think he would solve quite a few of our problems. As NMF mentions above, teams have found it too easy to get past our midfield for years now. Having someone willing to throw himself into tackles and be the nasty spoiler we've been crying out for will strengthen us defensively in a big way.
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Totally agree. It puts opposition teams off their stride if they know they'll get a tough time. It might even have some of the less gutsy, gifted players looking to hide.

Keane had lots more to his game than that, but he was feared. Teams never expected an easy ride when he was playing.
 
RedRover said:
£6 million gets you nothing these days. Powell cost £5 million after a year in League 2. Or is buys Bebe as an even worse example.

As it is there are clearly better holding players in the world, I don't see that I've said anything different, but those players may not be available. If not the the manager knows him, he will know what the manager wants and expects and he has plenty of PL and CL experience in a top side at the top level. It would be almost risk free when you weigh it up.

For me you take it on a player by player basis with transfers - regardless of age. From watching this World Cup he looks in great shape and shows no signs of going over the hill imminently so Id be quite happy with it.
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If LVG decides to go with him I will be happy with it too, but if he doesn't I won't mind either as there are better options available for us.
 
De Jong for £6m? Well it'd be hard to turn up on that. He'd instantly be one of our best midfielders too.
 
TBF 6m would be a brilliant piece of business as a short term fix. But then 2 years later we'll have to again search for a replacement. If we do go down the De Jong route I think it'd be wise to sign a quality U-21 defensive midfielder like Saul or 22 year old Fernando from Shakhtar. That way they can be backups behind De Jong for a bit, learn their trade and make the full time step up once Nigel's done with.

That said I think Luiz Gustavo would be perfect for us. He's at the perfect age to step in and play for atleast 6-7 seasons. Unlike De Jong (whose performances will nosedive dramatically once his fitness levels decline) Gustavo relies on his superior reading of the game and is accustomed to Van Gaal's system. It's a no-brainer really. He's an experienced, intelligent, world class holding midfielder that can solve our problems for the near and medium term future. Not too sure but apparently his buyout clause is a fairly reasonable 26 million.
 
Invictus said:
TBF 6m would be a brilliant piece of business as a short term fix. But then 2 years later we'll have to again search for a replacement. If we do go down the De Jong route I think it'd be wise to sign a quality U-21 defensive midfielder like Saul or 22 year old Fernando from Shakhtar. That way they can be backups behind De Jong for a bit, learn their trade and make the full time step up once Nigel's done with.

That said I think Luiz Gustavo would be perfect for us. He's at the perfect age to step in and play for atleast 6-7 seasons. Unlike De Jong (whose performances will nosedive dramatically once his fitness levels decline) Gustavo relies on his superior reading of the game and is accustomed to Van Gaal's system. It's a no-brainer really. He's an experienced, intelligent, world class holding midfielder that can solve our problems for the near and medium term future. Not too sure but apparently his buyout clause is a fairly reasonable 26 million.
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Problem with that is we're not just looking for one more player. By all accounts LvG wants another defender too. It might make sense to take the cheaper option (de Jong) this summer, then wait until next summer for further rebuilding. We should also hopefully have CL football to offer players, so we might be in a better position to attract the elite.
 
Globule said:
Problem with that is we're not just looking for one more player. By all accounts LvG wants another defender too. It might make sense to take the cheaper option (de Jong) this summer, then wait until next summer for further rebuilding. We should also hopefully have CL football to offer players, so we might be in a better position to attract the elite.
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Hmm good point mate and that might be the most probable outcome. Fair to say that we've zoomed in on Shaw, Hummels (unlikely but you never know), probably an attacker and some sort of defensive midfielder (prioritized by Van Gaal) going by media claims.

But then Gustavo's 26 million isn't that big of an ask when one considers that it's an area that Louis feels has to be reinforced. It's probably the one position that can make or break his system. I just think Gustavo would be a good choice especially since Van Gaal knows him from his Bayern days. Problem is that if we settle for De Jong now (he's a good player BTW no denying that) without a clear long term plan there might not be a suitable/ attainable replacement available 2-3 seasons down the road. I say Woody should go all in and try to patch up the major problem areas in our squad. The other non-vital positions (backup CB, RB, wide AM upgrade) can be done in due time as long as the core of the midfield engine is in place for atleast 6-7 seasons with Herrera and (hypothetically) Gustavo.

Guess we'll find out soon. I'll be happy with either De Jong or Gustavo. :)
 
Invictus said:
TBF 6m would be a brilliant piece of business as a short term fix. But then 2 years later we'll have to again search for a replacement. If we do go down the De Jong route I think it'd be wise to sign a quality U-21 defensive midfielder like Saul or 22 year old Fernando from Shakhtar. That way they can be backups behind De Jong for a bit, learn their trade and make the full time step up once Nigel's done with.

That said I think Luiz Gustavo would be perfect for us. He's at the perfect age to step in and play for atleast 6-7 seasons. Unlike De Jong (whose performances will nosedive dramatically once his fitness levels decline) Gustavo relies on his superior reading of the game and is accustomed to Van Gaal's system. It's a no-brainer really. He's an experienced, intelligent, world class holding midfielder that can solve our problems for the near and medium term future. Not too sure but apparently his buyout clause is a fairly reasonable 26 million.
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I agree with all of that... weirdly enough, if we're in for de Jong that would kind of lead me to believe there was true to the rumours of LVG wanting Stootman, even though they play the same position. I said above I thought de Jong was a really solid player for City and he'd probably be a good buy, that said it's still hard to imagine LVG sees de Jong as someone to be in our starting XI for the next 3 years or so.
 
RVP tweeting an old pic of him and De Jong on Instagram. It's ON.
 
Globule said:
With no CL football :mad: that's a fine selection of midfielders. With fewer games our first choice midfielder won't need to be rested as much. Obviously I wouldn't say no to signing some more midfielders, but if we were to only get Herrera and De Jong this summer I'd consider that a success. Then hopefully we'll be in a position to attract better players next summer with the offer of CL football.
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I find that LvG still wants Strootman, so I would see a 3rd coming in January.
 
For me De jong is exceptional at his job of protecting a back 4 and breaking up opposition attacks. Thus, given the fact our current squad has the likes of Herarra, Mata Kagawa and Januzaj who can provide attacking magic. I cant see how anyone could complain if we signed a world class hench man to help out Carrick, Fellaini or Fletcher with defensive duties. Especially a henchman who hardly ever gets sent off yet gives the opposition hell.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
For me De jong is exceptional at his job of protecting a back 4 and breaking up opposition attacks. Thus, given the fact our current squad has the likes of Herarra, Mata Kagawa and Januzaj who can provide attacking magic. I cant see how anyone could complain if we signed a world class hench man to help out Carrick, Fellaini or Fletcher with defensive duties. Especially a henchman who hardly ever gets sent off yet gives the opposition hell.
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We are in complete agreement. Its a short term fix but a damn good one.
 
Obviously I'd love to sign Vidal but is honestly think that if we could sign De Jong, our midfield would already be great.

De Jong
Herrera
Mata

In a midfield 3.
 
Annahnomoss said:
De Jong is not a midfielder who relies on his brilliant reading of the game to intercept passes, he is a very physical player who needs his stamina, pace and aggression to be who he is. Remove that and you don't have much left so if we want to buy 29 year olds we should target players more like Carrick/Lahm than De Jong who relies on their great reading of the game.

My suggestion is not that players above 29 has nothing to offer, but that if a players game is very reliant on his physical attributes then one should be vary to purchase that player if he is already getting closer to 30. Any player who is getting close to thirty is going to be a risky signing fitness wise.

I don't see why we would spend 6 millions on De Jong for a year or two of football when there are better players who are around 25 who will be cheap as well. Most players who can continue playing well until 33-35 are of the more technical type like Scholes, Pirlo and Xavi. Xavi is 34 and his decline started 2-3 years ago and since he hasn't been the same player.

Players peak at 27-29, after that it is about damage control and some players have such great overall attributes that they can make up for it but the fact is that most don't.
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We are talking about two seasons, at most, that he will expect or be expected to be a starter/important member of the squad. He holds fort whilst we get time to search for a long term option . Can't really see anything wrong or too risky with such a move and the prices being touted aren't Fellainisque .
 
Invictus said:
Hmm good point mate and that might be the most probable outcome. Fair to say that we've zoomed in on Shaw, Hummels (unlikely but you never know), probably an attacker and some sort of defensive midfielder (prioritized by Van Gaal) going by media claims.

But then Gustavo's 26 million isn't that big of an ask when one considers that it's an area that Louis feels has to be reinforced. It's probably the one position that can make or break his system. I just think Gustavo would be a good choice especially since Van Gaal knows him from his Bayern days. Problem is that if we settle for De Jong now (he's a good player BTW no denying that) without a clear long term plan there might not be a suitable/ attainable replacement available 2-3 seasons down the road. I say Woody should go all in and try to patch up the major problem areas in our squad. The other non-vital positions (backup CB, RB, wide AM upgrade) can be done in due time as long as the core of the midfield engine is in place for atleast 6-7 seasons with Herrera and (hypothetically) Gustavo.

Guess we'll find out soon. I'll be happy with either De Jong or Gustavo. :)
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Gustavo would be perfect and to think that if only we had a manager when Bayern let him go we could have gotten him.
 
Old and finished.

If we are to buy another midfielder we need quality. We have a lot of fringe players in our ranks.
 
I'm all for his signing, especially at the 6 million people are saying. I can't remember a lot of him in an attacking sense at City but defensively he'd be great, so many times the past few seasons we've all been crying out for someone to stick a foot in as players walk through our midfield and are easily 1 on 1 with our defenders. Games like city and Chelsea away in 2012-13 where they started to get back into the game and we needed a strong defensive midfielder to regain a grip on the game. Him Carrick and Herrera would be a real boost to our midfield if we choose to play 4-3-3, in 442 him and Carrick would be solid enough but obviously that would leave out Herrera. People complaining about his age should realise Carrick is what 33?? And apart from Herrera non of our options are really that good at the moment, so at 29 he would have 3 4 years maybe which is brillant for the price.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Old and finished.

If we are to buy another midfielder we need quality. We have a lot of fringe players in our ranks.
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I'd imagine Van Gaal disagrees with this. He is clearly effective at playing the stereotypical role of "midfield enforcer", which is something we need, and would work well with a more possession oriented player like Herrera. He'd also be ideal in terms of depth if Van Gaal goes after a player like Strootman.
 
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