Nigel De Jong

[Bwuk]

With Herera and de Jong we would not need another. We really should try Pearsom, Periera and Rothwell in some games. We also still have Carrick

Only Herrera, De Jong and Carrick would be of the level we require, and Carrick is getting on a bit. Fletcher, Cleverley, Fellaini etc aren't good enough.

 

[PlayerOne]

He would be a good squad player but would he be happy with that?

 

[JB7]

Only Herrera, De Jong and Carrick would be of the level we require, and Carrick is getting on a bit. Fletcher, Cleverley, Fellaini etc aren't good enough.

Harsh, Cleverley will be fine as a squad player once his confidence is back and LvG's system is in place and Fellaini, well, we've definitely never seen anywhere near the best of him. I don't know if we ever will, but it'd surely be better to see if he can be of any use, instead of just selling him for a massive loss straight away.

 

[Adebesi]

I think three would be pushing it. Not that Id complain, I just dont think itd happen. Even if we got two we'd desperately need to offload some of the deadwood we already have there. I think Fletcher is the prime candidate to make way if a suitor can be found. Im assuming we'll give Fellaini another year, Im in two minds about what is best to do on that score, I can see a good argument both ways. But if we had De Jong Id expect him to start ahead of Fellaini in most games.

Herrera, De Jong, Cleverley, Carrick, Fellaini. With Jones giving us another option there if needed.

It does still lack a bit of wow factor but it can do the job. And Im backing Cleverley to have a great season with Van Gaal guiding him, though admittedly that's based purely on hope.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

He is a limited player who has probably peaked already. Would be a pretty terrible signing.

 

[Adebesi]

For £6m? Not every signing has to be for the future. He can do a job nobody we currently have can do, he would be relatively cheap and has a good working relationship with our manager. He would inject some aggression into our midfield and help us back into the CL, opening up our options next summer when we can splash big to get a longer term solution.

The more I think about it the more it grows on me.

 

[Annahnomoss]

He is a limited player who has probably peaked already. Would be a pretty terrible signing.

I agree, he is also the type to be able to ruin an entire title challenge with 1-2 stupid red cards or picking up an early yellow then having to play it passively which isn't his game.

Defensive midfielders of the destroyer type are incredibly cheap as no top teams uses them in their systems so I would prefer Gustavo, Badelj, Bargfrede, Bender, Carrico, Neustädter and so forth.

I would prefer Gustavo as the clear number one and after that Badelj/Bargfrede as they'd be cheaper than Bender and all of the ones I listed are absolute monsters of DM's and young. I would not want to play against United with Herrera(who is a great tackler and a pressing player) and one of these types, especially Gustavo.

Imagine a "British" version of the high press with rock-hard aggressive tacklers defending, it would be dreadful to play against for the opponents.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I agree, he is also the type to be able to ruin an entire title challenge with 1-2 stupid red cards or picking up an early yellow then having to play it passively which isn't his game.

Defensive midfielders of the destroyer type are incredibly cheap as no top teams uses them in their systems so I would prefer Gustavo, Badelj, Bargfrede, Bender, Carrico, Neustädter and so forth.

I would prefer Gustavo as the clear number one and after that Badelj/Bargfrede as they'd be cheaper than Bender and all of the ones I listed are absolute monsters of DM's and young. I would not want to play against United with Herrera(who is a great tackler and a pressing player) and one of these types, especially Gustavo.

Imagine a "British" version of the high press with rock-hard aggressive tacklers defending, it would be dreadful to play against for the opponents.

I really do not think we need that type. If we are able to bring in Herrera he is someone who works really hard defensively to go with his technical ability.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

For £6m? Not every signing has to be for the future. He can do a job nobody we currently have can do, he would be relatively cheap and has a good working relationship with our manager. He would inject some aggression into our midfield and help us back into the CL, opening up our options next summer when we can splash big to get a longer term solution.

The more I think about it the more it grows on me.

That's a good point too. Between that and his proven Premier League pedigree, everything points towards him being able to hit the ground running for us. Its hardly a small consideration either, given that we'll probably have several new players and of course a manager trying to implement a new style.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

He's an excellent player. Good on the ball, smart and a tough tackler. You lot are just going by his thuggish 2010 final performance. He's only ever been sent of once, way back in 2006. I'd gladly take him.

Excellent player is really pushing it. Let us not forget that Gareth Barry kept him on the bench. He is a good ball winner and has good passing stats but, he is a pretty limited player in what he can do.

 

[Annahnomoss]

I really do not think we need that type. If we are able to bring in Herrera he is someone who works really hard defensively to go with his technical ability.

Herrera is an offensive CM/AM player mate, we need a defensive minded player next to him as Herrera isn't going to be that player for us. Herrera has great tackling, but he needs to be allowed to move forward to be at his best unless we play two interchanging "complete" CM's who alternate between staying back and moving forward.

I am not sure it is the style LVG prefers the most, as he usually plays a defensively minded midfielder next to a player like Herrera who would be the box to box.

Of course LVG may have done a stroke of genius if he converts Herrera in to a DM as if it works Herrera would be head and shoulders above the other DM's technically and in dribbling and so forth.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Herrera is an offensive CM/AM player mate, we need a defensive minded player next to him as Herrera isn't going to be that player for us. Herrera has great tackling, but he needs to be allowed to move forward to be at his best unless we play two interchanging "complete" CM's who alternate between staying back and moving forward.

I am not sure it is the style LVG prefers the most, as he usually plays a defensively minded midfielder next to a player like Herrera who would be the box to box.

Of course LVG may have done a stroke of genius if he converts Herrera in to a DM as if it works Herrera would be head and shoulders above the other DM's technically and in dribbling and so forth.

If he is playing next to Carrick he would be able to play further forward.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I really sometimes hate what Football manager did to Football, there isn't an "attacking" midfielder or "defensive" midfielders, there are general vague types, but most fall into both categories of attacking and defending.

 

[RedRover]

I really sometimes hate what Football manager did to Football, there isn't an "attacking" midfielder or "defensive" midfielders, there are general vague types, but most fall into both categories of attacking and defending.

Depends what you're in the team to do. Years ago players could do both - but the game has changed. Players have jobs, and there are players in a lot of modern football systems who are in there to protect teh back four, win the ball and give it to someone who can do something more exciting with it.

 

[Santos J]

I agree, he is also the type to be able to ruin an entire title challenge with 1-2 stupid red cards or picking up an early yellow then having to play it passively which isn't his game.

Defensive midfielders of the destroyer type are incredibly cheap as no top teams uses them in their systems so I would prefer Gustavo, Badelj, Bargfrede, Bender, Carrico, Neustädter and so forth.

I would prefer Gustavo as the clear number one and after that Badelj/Bargfrede as they'd be cheaper than Bender and all of the ones I listed are absolute monsters of DM's and young. I would not want to play against United with Herrera(who is a great tackler and a pressing player) and one of these types, especially Gustavo.

Imagine a "British" version of the high press with rock-hard aggressive tacklers defending, it would be dreadful to play against for the opponents.

He's had one red card in his whole career which came over 7 years ago & bar Bender he's better than those you mentioned.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Depends what you're in the team to do. Years ago players could do both - but the game has changed. Players have jobs, and there are players in a lot of modern football systems who are in there to protect teh back four, win the ball and give it to someone who can do something more exciting with it.

You know exactly what I'm referring to, a poster above is a prime example, he states Herrera is a CM/AM so isn't defensive.. Have defensive midfield players not played CM or AM? I know plenty of AM's I would consider "defensive", Rooney when in the hole or Valencia on the wing have been come to be known as defensive players, playing in attacking position, but most players are capable of being good attackers and defenders, midfielders more so than any other.

 

[Annahnomoss]

He's had one red card in his whole career which came over 7 years ago & bar Bender he's better than those you mentioned.

Gustavo is much better than him, I'd have Gustavo over Bender as well for us as he is proven in a LVG style system.

 

[Firstouch20]

Not sure why people keep calling him limited. He is very capable in supporting attacks but he is just very positionally disciplined. For Ajax he played in a number of positions including on the wing. He has a good range of passing and amazing stamina and energy levels to get up and down the midfield.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

He's had one red card in his whole career which came over 7 years ago & bar Bender he's better than those you mentioned.

SSo in your opinion De Jong > Gustavo? I'm not criticising, haven't seen enough of Gustavo but I heard he was highly rated, I got the impression at least, he was thought of in a higher ilk than NDJ

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Not sure why people keep calling him limited. He is very capable in supporting attacks but he is just very positionally disciplined. For Ajax he played in a number of positions including on the wing. He has a good range of passing and amazing stamina and energy levels to get up and down the midfield.

He is a player who almost always makes the safe pass(something people kill Cleverley for), does not really run with the ball and has never been much of a creative player. He is fine at what he actually does but, we can do much, much better.

 

[Santos J]

SSo in your opinion De Jong > Gustavo? I'm not criticising, haven't seen enough of Gustavo but I heard he was highly rated, I got the impression at least, he was thought of in a higher ilk than NDJ

Yeah, I just don't really rate Gustavo tbh & his disciplinary record is poor.

Gustavo is much better than him, I'd have Gustavo over Bender as well for us as he is proven in a LVG style system.

Lars or Sven Bender? Being proven in an LvG system doesn't really count for much at the moment either considering we haven't a clue how we're going to play. So a reason you'd not have De Jong is because apparently he'd pick up reds to feck up a title challenge even though he's only had 1 in his career yet you're fine with Gustavo who'd pick up a few a season?

 

[NMF]

I actually think Luiz Gustavo would make a better signing. His just as good if not better than Fernandinho.

But I'd take De Jong as a stop gap and he'd be cheap.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I actually think Luiz Gustavo would make a better signing. His just as good if not better than Fernandinho.

But I'd take De Jong as a stop gap and he'd be cheap.

Why the hell do we need stop gaps?

 

[Adebesi]

The stop gap thing only makes sense if you buy into the theory that some of the best players may be reluctant to join a team not in the CL.

 

[Firstouch20]

He is a player who almost always makes the safe pass(something people kill Cleverley for), does not really run with the ball and has never been much of a creative player. He is fine at what he actually does but, we can do much, much better.

Against Australia he made two fantastic runs that nearly resulted in goals. This was after Holland took the lead too! He made one run where he was found by Van Persie and in turn he set up Robben for a shot in the box. He also made another run ahead of Sneijder at the edge of the box where again he was found by Van Persie and forced a great save from the keeper.

De Jong was produced in the Ajax system so he is a very flexible player in terms of the positions he is capable of taking on the pitch. People don't kill Cleverly for safe passing, they kill him for being all around useless. De Jong is a destroyer by trade. He breaks up play and gives the ball to the more creative players to do damage. Saying that though De Jong is a very good footballer. People have forgotten how skillful and talented he was at Ajax where he even had games as a no.10 and on the flanks.

 

[RedRover]

He is a player who almost always makes the safe pass(something people kill Cleverley for), does not really run with the ball and has never been much of a creative player. He is fine at what he actually does but, we can do much, much better.

If LVG brings him in its to do the job he does for Holland - not to be a great attacking threat. Cleverely gets criticism for not really being able to do anything well. He isn't a holding player with bite who can tackle and the discsipline to stay where he is needed, nor is he a player who really adds anything going forward either. You therefore question why he's in the team - other than their being nobody else.

There are clearly better midfielders than Nigel De Jong - but in terms of smart business and building a strong squad I personally thuink we can do a lot worse. He would probably suit LVG's system - he seems to favor a system over individuals and could fill an important role for a relatively meagre fee.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Against Australia he made two fantastic runs that nearly resulted in goals. This was after Holland took the lead too! He made one run where he was found by Van Persie and in turn he set up Robben for a shot in the box. He also made another run ahead of Sneijder at the edge of the box where again he was found by Van Persie and forced a great save from the keeper.

De Jong was produced in the Ajax system so he is a very flexible player in terms of the positions he is capable of taking on the pitch. People don't kill Cleverly for safe passing, they kill him for being all around useless. De Jong is a destroyer by trade. He breaks up play and gives the ball to the more creative players to do damage. Saying that though De Jong is a very good footballer. People have forgotten how skillful and talented he was at Ajax where he even had games as a no.10 and on the flanks.

Dirk Kuyt was scoring for fun back when he was in Holland. Completely different league. Since he left Holland De Jong has been purely a destroyer. This place amazes me a few months ago if we were linked with him everyone would have pissed themselves laughing but, since we have his national team manager at the club he is suddenly a good signing for some people.

 

[Firstouch20]

Dirk Kuyt was scoring for fun back when he was in Holland. Completely different league. Since he left Holland De Jong has been purely a destroyer. This place amazes me a few months ago if we were linked with him everyone would have pissed themselves laughing but, since we have his national team manager at the club he is suddenly a good signing for some people.

He played for an Ajax team who would regularly progress to the latter stages of the CL. De Jong destroyed Arsenals greatest ever team in the CL playing in an attacking role! It was a formidable team. Why would anyone laugh at being linked with De Jong? He does something none of our midfielders do and thats win the ball and provide legs and energy. Its just that you're making De Jong out to be Lee Cattermole. Yes he is a destroyer but he is technically gifted and very intelligent.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Do not want this guy, he is an extremely dirty player.

Although even if we do get him, he will probably only be a stop gap until Strootman arrives (He most likely will). I'd rather give Fellaini one more chance to impress us until January rather than sign Nigel fecking De Jong.

 

[lem8sh]

Nowhere near good enough.

 

[bishblaize]

Personally I wouldn't be particularly overwhelmed if De Jong came in, but you have to admit that many of us have been crying out for someone who is solely defensive and can snip at a few ankles when needed. In terms of that purely destructive shielding of the back four, its a dying art and there aren't a tonne out there.

Strootman combines the best of that defensive stuff with someone who is a little more progressive on the ball, but he's a January purchase at best & if Roma progress beyond Xmas in the Champions League, they may refuse to sell til Summer. Id be wary about putting all my eggs in that one basket.

 

[Firstouch20]

Do not want this guy, he is an extremely dirty player.

Although even if we do get him, he will probably only be a stop gap until Strootman arrives (He most likely will). I'd rather give Fellaini one more chance to impress us until January rather than sign Nigel fecking De Jong.

No he isn't. Hasn't had a red card since 2006.

 

[SolidState]

Utterly useless signing and would take a huge chunk of wages. IF we do get him I hope we have already signed 3 top class midfielders and he was available so we thought "why not?". He looked out of sorts the last season he had at City.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

No he isn't. Hasn't had a red card since 2006.

You can be a dirty player and not routinely collect red cards. Pepe got his first red card for Portugal this World Cup.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

No he isn't. Hasn't had a red card since 2006.

Well, every time I see him play, he is always kicking and wrestling people on the pitch.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Yeah, I just don't really rate Gustavo tbh & his disciplinary record is poor.

Lars or Sven Bender? Being proven in an LvG system doesn't really count for much at the moment either considering we haven't a clue how we're going to play. So a reason you'd not have De Jong is because apparently he'd pick up reds to feck up a title challenge even though he's only had 1 in his career yet you're fine with Gustavo who'd pick up a few a season?

I thought De Jong had more red cards, considering his yellow count is so high my bad.

Also I think Gustavo was very well disciplined for Bayern, he went back to his old self when he went to Wolfsburg of being over-aggressive but prior to that his record at Bayern was fine and that is after all the system and style we will play.

LVG has already chosen the overall system we will play, the only thing which will change is the formation so it clearly is a huge deal that a player has proven himself in the system. Players who are good defensively in a passive defense may be shit in a pressing defense and the contrary is certainly true. Look at Kagawa who was the most impressive AM defensively in the world for Dortmund in the high press - when he came here to our passive/totally inactive defense he took a long time to try and adjust himself and still hasn't done it perfectly.

The current Dutch team are using as many of LVG's philosophies as he thinks he can implement, but the pressing game of them is non existent and so is the possession dominating game he plays with his clubs when he can. For that reason I think Gustavo is ideal as he is proven in a high possession and high/extreme press and also younger.

If De Jong was 25 I would have wanted him, now as he is 29 I don't think it is the best idea.

 

[iBoss]

I think I'd have De Jong over both Song and Khedira.

 

[RedRover]

I thought De Jong had more red cards, considering his yellow count is so high my bad.

Also I think Gustavo was very well disciplined for Bayern, he went back to his old self when he went to Wolfsburg of being over-aggressive but prior to that his record at Bayern was fine and that is after all the system and style we will play.

LVG has already chosen the overall system we will play, the only thing which will change is the formation so it clearly is a huge deal that a player has proven himself in the system. Players who are good defensively in a passive defense may be shit in a pressing defense and the contrary is certainly true. Look at Kagawa who was the most impressive AM defensively in the world for Dortmund in the high press - when he came here to our passive/totally inactive defense he took a long time to try and adjust himself and still hasn't done it perfectly.

The current Dutch team are using as many of LVG's philosophies as he thinks he can implement, but the pressing game of them is non existent and so is the possession dominating game he plays with his clubs when he can. For that reason I think Gustavo is ideal as he is proven in a high possession and high/extreme press and also younger.

If De Jong was 25 I would have wanted him, now as he is 29 I don't think it is the best idea.

Why do peole consider 29 to be over the hill? I'm 30 and in as good as (if not better) shape than I was when i was 25 and I suspect he has looked after his body a lot better than I have.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Why do peole consider 29 to be over the hill? I'm 30 and in as good as (if not better) shape than I was when i was 25 and I suspect he has looked after his body a lot better than I have.

Because you can't compare the strain a footballer puts themselves and their body through and the competition they have with a regular person or even regular athletes. There simply aren't many footballers who rely on great stamina, pace and explosiveness who continue to develop or keep a high level until they are 35. Usually we see the decline starting around the age of 30 in football even if in theory if you listen to your body and train well you can be older while still performing at a high level.

It isn't about the body being naturally limited, we see other athletes like short track runners or stamina events with plenty of people above 30 performing well. It is more about the constantly reoccurring injuries and the fact that a football has to put in the majority of his training hours on with-the-ball training so he has less ability to focus 100% on just the physical aspect.

 

[NMF]

Why the hell do we need stop gaps?

That's only if we can't bring in someone better until next summer.