Nicolas Otamendi | City Player

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if city are really interested, what on earth are they playing at?
mangala was between 32-40m depending on source, and now they're trying to bring someone in for more, to replace him?

And Sterling and De Bruyne 100m between the 2?
mad
 
ThanksBoss26 said:
According to Ian Ladyman, they're not looking to loan him out, so who knows.
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The Spanish press truly have no clue what's going on, do they?

Mangala has started both games this season and they've both been clean sheets. Would be really weird to loan him out.
 
Brwned said:
The funny thing is that the things being said about Otamendi now are more or less exactly what people said about Mangala last summer. People just like to moan and indulge in hysterics.

Last year our defence wasn't a big issue. Less than 1 goal a game in the league is fine. We were one goal off having the 2nd best defensive record in the league. City won the league with the exact same defensive record as us in 13/14 (37 goals conceded) and we had an even worse defensive record when we last won it in 12/13. Last season Chelsea conceded just 5 more goals.

Our defensive record will inevitably improve with Darmian, a fully fit Shaw and Schneiderlin and it's entirely possible that alone will close that 5 goal gap, so it's pretty clear we don't need another CB. If we want to compete in the CL then maybe we do, but that's something to think about next season. Our problem is our goalscoring.

Only two teams have won the PL by scoring less than 70 goals - United in 08/09, and Arsenal in 97/98, both with 68 goals. We managed just 62 last season and realistically need to find another 10 goals to have any real chance of competing. We should be competing with City for De Bruyne and Arsenal for Benzema, not City for Otamendi.
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Excellent post. We should also be trying to create more chances for the attackers we already have.
 
VanGaalEra said:
The Spanish press truly have no clue what's going on, do they?

Mangala has started both games this season and they've both been clean sheets. Would be really weird to loan him out.
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No, absolutely not it would seem on the evidence of the De Gea, Pedro and apparently non-existent Otamendi move.
 
Sandikan said:
if city are really interested, what on earth are they playing at?
mangala was between 32-40m depending on source, and now they're trying to bring someone in for more, to replace him?

And Sterling and De Bruyne 100m between the 2?
mad
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Mad indeed but they will have considerably improved their first team and nobody will be arsed about prices if they deliver titles.
 
Brwned said:
Do you really think that we won't be opened up less this season, even if we don't sign another CB? It's taken a while to get there but it seems pretty clear we're now a very organised team under van Gaal and all of the players understand and execute their roles when out of possession very well, IMO.

Blind is playing there because he's aggressive, a good tackler, uses the ball very well and reads the game very well. He's played most of his career as a defender for club and country so I'm not sure I understand why that decision has received so much derision. In a compact team with an aggressive defensive approach he's a very effective defender and orchestrates our play from the build-up very well.

The other side of it is that Rojo's still regaining his fitness after coming back late to pre-season and Jones is ill. None of these things are indications that he's unhappy with our defenders as far as I can tell. In an ideal world we'd have someone who combines Blind's and Smalling's strengths but Otamendi can't replace what Blind offers us. Ramos can but he's one of the few and unfortunately he's not available.
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Our first two games have seen us opened up very little, so I'm am hoping it will continue yeah, but also I'm not using those first two games as a barometer for the rest of the season, as other teams will test us more without a doubt.

The only reason I can see why Blind is playing there is because Rojo is injured and he must have his left footed CB playing, which to me does suggest he is not happy with our CB's considering he is playing a player out of position over others that have played CB their whole career? You say he's played a defender for club and country, well fair enough then, but as far I knew I thought he'd played left back and DM. I hold my hands up if he's played for any length at CB previously.
 
Summit said:
Our first two games have seen us opened up very little, so I'm am hoping it will continue yeah, but also I'm not using those first two games as a barometer for the rest of the season, as other teams will test us more without a doubt.

The only reason I can see why Blind is playing there is because Rojo is injured and he must have his left footed CB playing, which to me does suggest he is not happy with our CB's considering he is playing a player out of position over others that have played CB their whole career? You say he's played a defender for club and country, well fair enough then, but as far I knew I thought he'd played left back and DM. I hold my hands up if he's played for any length at CB previously.
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I think Blind is at CB for his ball passing skills and his general intelligence.
 
I doubt that Rojo will displace Blind. Rojo is left footed and decent on the ball but his passing and intelligence is no where close to Blind's.
 
Summit said:
So in other words he isn't happy with our current CB's that he has at his disposal?
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he's happier with Blind for now.

Would certainly prefer Blind over Evans. I only think Evans excels at interceptions, Blind brings a lot more to the team.

However, I'd prefer Jones for some of the more physical battles.

Take playing Chelsea. At some of their free kicks they had Ivan, Terry, Cahill, Matic, Costa.
5 big tough players.

We have Smalling and Schweinsteiger of that strength. A few others like Darmian, Carrick and Schneiderlin can fill in, but I think we're a little weaker in that department than we could be, and that isn't helped by playing a non dominant centre back
 
Summit said:
Our first two games have seen us opened up very little, so I'm am hoping it will continue yeah, but also I'm not using those first two games as a barometer for the rest of the season, as other teams will test us more without a doubt.

The only reason I can see why Blind is playing there is because Rojo is injured and he must have his left footed CB playing, which to me does suggest he is not happy with our CB's considering he is playing a player out of position over others that have played CB their whole career? You say he's played a defender for club and country, well fair enough then, but as far I knew I thought he'd played left back and DM. I hold my hands up if he's played for any length at CB previously.
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I just don't agree with this idea of Blind being played "out of position". Players are much more rounded and versatile than we give them credit for. Blind last season showed all of the qualities necessary to play as a CB and he's shown himself to be a natural there this season. In a team that dominates possession and presses high up the pitch in the way we do, the CB's touch the ball around the halfway line almost as often as the CM's do. Mascherano and Javi Martinez made the switch fairly effortlessly for that very reason. For me, it would make no sense to spend €40m on a player like Otamendi to partner Smalling because they'll both waste the vast amounts of ball possession they get and Smalling can take care of most of the traditional man-marking defensive play when we're playing against 1 striker 90% of the time any way. It makes much more sense for the spare man to be comfortable stepping into midfield and orchestrating our build-up and Blind does that very well.
 
Summit said:
So in other words he isn't happy with our current CB's that he has at his disposal?
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I wouldn't say happy, I'd say he's content.

Think he only replaces Blind if he can get a good ball playing CB (hence the interest in Ramos).
 
Devil may care said:
Being thick as pig shit positionally like Jones and Rojo or a complete deer in the headlights like Evans can't be blamed on injuries, a kid in McNair came in and often looked more composed, and Smalling suffered injuries and set backs but actually being a decent defender he still managed the basics when returning, so eiother you are naive or wearing red specs if you don't see an issue with our CB options.
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Rubbish.
I sometimes wonder what our fans watch, or if they even understand the complete basics of football. The substantial injures we had last season played a major part in our defensive flaws, as did our lack of midfield cover. If wasn’t a coincidence that we played better with Carrick in the team.
The hatred we have for our own players in this place is starting to become pathetic and ridiculous posts like yours only adds to that. Tell me again how Jones is shit positionally or Rojo is like a deer in headlights? fecking pathetic.
We have addressed our biggest issues this summer (that’s not to say we couldn’t do with 1 or 2 more signings) spent a shit load of money and fans still aren’t happy, we have won our first two games and fans still aren’t happy (in which we haven’t conceded, even without De Gea), we have got rid of the majority of dead wood, have a few exciting youngsters coming through the ranks, are back in the Champions league, we will be title challengers, we still have bucket loads of money to spend, but the caf is having a meltdown over a fecking tweet saying that a one season wonder is joining City. Modern day fans eh.
 
Getsme said:
Rubbish.
I sometimes wonder what our fans watch, or if they even understand the complete basics of football. The substantial injures we had last season played a major part in our defensive flaws, as did our lack of midfield cover. If wasn’t a coincidence that we played better with Carrick in the team.
The hatred we have for our own players in this place is starting to become pathetic and ridiculous posts like yours only adds to that. Tell me again how Jones is shit positionally or Rojo is like a deer in headlights? fecking pathetic.
We have addressed our biggest issues this summer (that’s not to say we couldn’t do with 1 or 2 more signings) spent a shit load of money and fans still aren’t happy, we have won our first two games and fans still aren’t happy (in which we haven’t conceded, even without De Gea), we have got rid of the majority of dead wood, have a few exciting youngsters coming through the ranks, are back in the Champions league, we will be title challengers, we still have bucket loads of money to spend, but the caf is having a meltdown over a fecking tweet saying that a one season wonder is joining City. Modern day fans eh.
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Hope you don't get a nosebleed on your high horse, fans with their heads in the sand eh?
 
Brwned said:
I just don't agree with this idea of Blind being played "out of position". Players are much more rounded and versatile than we give them credit for. Blind last season showed all of the qualities necessary to play as a CB and he's shown himself to be a natural there this season. In a team that dominates possession and presses high up the pitch in the way we do, the CB's touch the ball around the halfway line almost as often as the CM's do. Mascherano and Javi Martinez made the switch fairly effortlessly for that very reason. For me, it would make no sense to spend €40m on a player like Otamendi to partner Smalling because they'll both waste the vast amounts of ball possession they get and Smalling can take care of most of the traditional man-marking defensive play when we're playing against 1 striker 90% of the time.
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Ya, good points on Mascherano and Javi, I'd for got about them, but it also on the other hand doesn't mean that Blind will be as successful making the switch and there will be teams throughout the season to give us a bugger test for sure.

Your argument about not agreeing with him being played out of position does hold weight on Blind (so far), but also really falls down on other players that have been played out of position. Rooney and Valencia come to mind.

Also, we have played two games, and have had a real test. Just for debating sake, how do you think we would fair against City atm with our current CB's?
 
If DDG could just get his head straight then we're already massively improved in the defence as compared with last year - Darmian, Shaw actually playing, Smalling looking like a different player, and a midfield shield to beat them all, we'll no doubt still get exposed with the left sided defender at times, but in most games we'll concede very few chances as we are.

It's the forward situation that is really worrying me atm.
 
Summit said:
Ya, good points on Mascherano and Javi, I'd for got about them, but it also on the other hand doesn't mean that Blind will be as successful making the switch and there will be teams throughout the season to give us a bugger test for sure.

Your argument about not agreeing with him being played out of position does hold weight on Blind (so far), but also really falls down on other players that have been played out of position. Rooney and Valencia come to mind.

Also, we have played two games, and have had a real test. Just for debating sake, how do you think we would fair against City atm with our current CB's?
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I don't really think Valencia was played out of position either. He always looked more like a wingback than a proper winger with his defensive contribution and commitment and he spent most of his time last season galloping forward because we had more possession than anyone else in the league. You have to look at the players' positions in the context of the tactics they're playing in. If you look at his average position against Arsenal last season for example, you can see he was playing far beyond the halfway line in the same line as Herrera and Fellaini, far ahead of Blind - in reality he was a right midfielder/wingback in a lop-sided defensive line rather than a right back. Compare that to the Villa game and Darmian's position and it's night and day - Darmian was playing behind Carrick and Schneiderlin, behind the halfway line as a traditional right back. It's a clear tactical shift.

If we were playing Blind in a team under Sir Alex then I'd agree he's playing out of position. Under Sir Alex our entire team sat back, invited on pressure, absorbed all of the oppositions' attack and then sprung forward on the counter attack. Under van Gaal we are much, much more aggressive. Our team is much more compact, has a much higher starting line and they aggressively try to win the ball back in the middle third far, far more than we did under Sir Alex. That's where Blind does most of his work as a CB - in the middle third, picking up onrushing midfielders and pushing the striker back into midfield to pick the ball up before he nips in and takes it off his feet. It's a completely different role to what Vidic and Rio played. Even what Smalling does is completely different to what Rio and Vidic did despite him doing so much of the traditional defensive work.

I personally would have no concerns about playing against City with our centre backs because our centre backs are never isolated. We defend as a team really well and have a very clear defensive structure and approach that Blind and Smalling understand and execute very well.
 
Brwned said:
I personally would have no concerns about playing against City with our centre backs because our centre backs are never isolated. We defend as a team really well and have a very clear defensive structure and approach that Blind and Smalling understand and execute very well.
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You could give me ferdinand Vidic and Staam with mcgrath in front of them and I'd still be concerned about aguero

I have nothing against a Smalling - Blind partnership but I'd certainly have concerns with them (or any other partnership) against aguero and silva
 
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VanGaalEra said:
The Spanish press truly have no clue what's going on, do they?

Mangala has started both games this season and they've both been clean sheets. Would be really weird to loan him out.
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It would seem odd, but when you think about it, they'll get Mangala valuable mental experience in a league where CBs probably have smarter runs and better passes to deal with (as well as CL games) and they'll still have Otamendi and Kompany to start with Denayer and Demichelis as backup and then next year, Demichelis can either be gone or become 5th choice with Mangala - a year closer to his prime and with the above benefits - as the 3rd main CB, which City really do need considering Kompany's injury record and the fact they're in the CL every year and have lots of games.

So, if that's the only way to get Otamendi, I'd still do it if I were them, but if they can just pay a few million more and keep Mangala, they should do that. They can always recoup the money by loaning out Denayer for year and getting a loan fee from someone desperate for a CB, presumably.
 
Getsme said:
Rubbish.
I sometimes wonder what our fans watch, or if they even understand the complete basics of football. The substantial injures we had last season played a major part in our defensive flaws, as did our lack of midfield cover. If wasn’t a coincidence that we played better with Carrick in the team.
The hatred we have for our own players in this place is starting to become pathetic and ridiculous posts like yours only adds to that. Tell me again how Jones is shit positionally or Rojo is like a deer in headlights? fecking pathetic.
We have addressed our biggest issues this summer (that’s not to say we couldn’t do with 1 or 2 more signings) spent a shit load of money and fans still aren’t happy, we have won our first two games and fans still aren’t happy (in which we haven’t conceded, even without De Gea), we have got rid of the majority of dead wood, have a few exciting youngsters coming through the ranks, are back in the Champions league, we will be title challengers, we still have bucket loads of money to spend, but the caf is having a meltdown over a fecking tweet saying that a one season wonder is joining City. Modern day fans eh.
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Got to agree with this.
 
Zoo said:
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Just goes to show the ups and downs of the transfer window, if things had panned out differently we could have massively strengthen our defence, and kept a top player away from City, at the same time we could have got one over on Madrid and cost them a packet......Hope that's made everyone feel better :(.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
Just goes to show the ups and downs of the transfer window, if things had panned out differently we could have massively strengthen our defence, and kept a top player away from City, at the same time we could have got one over on Madrid and cost them a packet......Hope that's made everyone feel better :(.
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Nope the only up side is that he could be a one season wonder and if Mangala is going then its poor business by City as he looked good today unlinke Kompany who was dodgy.
 
AbusementPark said:
Nope the only up side is that he could be a one season wonder and if Mangala is going then its poor business by City as he looked good today unlinke Kompany who was dodgy.
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I have to admit Otamendi never got my juices flowing, I was more swept along by everyone raving about him, sure he's great but City hardly looked crap in defence today so will he massively improve them? doubtful for me, anyway the fact is we were't in for him so it's hard to be disappointed.
 
Wonder if not signing him has anything to do with the fact that Lord Van Gaal always wants to play a left footed central defender.

The top defender in the market should be going to a team looking to strengthen at the back.
 
It's really odd now that finally the Mangala Kompany partnership is looking really good and they want to destroy that momentum by sending him on loan to build a new partnership? Not to mention Valencia will probably insist on a buyout clause. All their loans have had buyout clauses recently and they've bought all their loans in their second year. I don't believe that there is no buyout clause for Mangala. He is also 4 years younger than Otamendi.
 
AbusementPark said:
Nope the only up side is that he could be a one season wonder and if Mangala is going then its poor business by City as he looked good today unlinke Kompany who was dodgy.
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The upside is that City continue to do hilariously stupid things preventing them from building a strong defence.

This says it all:
Leg-End said:
07/08 - Corluka
08/09 - Ben-Haim, Kompany
09/10 - Lescott, Toure
10/11 - Boateng
11/12 - Savic
12/13 - Nastasic
13/14 - Demichelis
14/15 - Mangala
15/16 - Otamendi?

A new CB every season for 9 seasons running, an impressive record they would be keeping up.
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Boateng, Savic, Nastasic and Mangala have all shown they are good enough to play alongside Kompany either during their City career or when they left, when they immediately flourished when they were given the manager's trust, confidence and patience. Building a defensive partnership takes quite a long time and needs all three of those components which they never got. Clearly they've now given up on bringing a young defender in and developing him, and instead they're going for the expensive short-term option in Otamendi. It might strengthen them at present but it's another example of the short-term thinking that dominates City and it should be music to everyone's ears. Well, everyone other than the people who spend more time thinking about transfers and FIFA 16 squads than what happens on the pitch.
 
Really wanted him. He looked like a class centre back last season. He's fast, precise in the challenge and aggresive. Jones better step up this season.
 
Looks like he's off to City then. Not going to lie, they've got a very good starting XI on paper now. If they get De Bruyne to replace Navas down the right, they will be a massive problem, in my opinion. Not only in the Premier League, but I can imagine in the Champions League too, especially as it now looks like Pellegrini has started to play with a 4231, as opposed to a 442.
 
Does that mean that:

a) we were never really in for him.
b) that we refused to pay so much
c) that Otamendi choseCity over us

???
 
Zoo said:
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Feck anybody that's anything to do with mendes . He's shafted enough money off us the bent b,tard . Stay well clear of him and his players . I'd rather go with what we have than have any dealings with
Mendes . City are welcome to him .
 
I have mentioned this before in the Transfer Tweets thread, Otamendi has had only one good season. Only just over a year ago he was playing for Porto, and was not even in the first 11 and Mangala was playing ahead of him. Valencia got him for pretty cheap and he's had an excellent season no doubt. But to buy him for 40 Million Euros on the back of just a single season seems silly to me.
 
sammsky1 said:
Does that mean that:

a) we were never really in for him.
b) that we refused to pay so much
c) that Otamendi choseCity over us

???
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I think it's almost certainly a, he's not left footed and doesn't pass it nicely so LvG didn't want him as the defending aspects of defending are less important it would seem.
 
Getsme said:
Rubbish.
I sometimes wonder what our fans watch, or if they even understand the complete basics of football. The substantial injures we had last season played a major part in our defensive flaws, as did our lack of midfield cover. If wasn’t a coincidence that we played better with Carrick in the team.
The hatred we have for our own players in this place is starting to become pathetic and ridiculous posts like yours only adds to that. Tell me again how Jones is shit positionally or Rojo is like a deer in headlights? fecking pathetic.
We have addressed our biggest issues this summer (that’s not to say we couldn’t do with 1 or 2 more signings) spent a shit load of money and fans still aren’t happy, we have won our first two games and fans still aren’t happy (in which we haven’t conceded, even without De Gea), we have got rid of the majority of dead wood, have a few exciting youngsters coming through the ranks, are back in the Champions league, we will be title challengers, we still have bucket loads of money to spend, but the caf is having a meltdown over a fecking tweet saying that a one season wonder is joining City. Modern day fans eh.
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Great post.
 
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