NFL Thread 2014-2015

I'd never want Man Utd to start tapping it about in their own half even if they are 3-4 goals up at half time.

We usually send young subs when the game is clearly on hand. Similar to second string here. It's not tapping it as no team usually tries to run out a quarter whole. It just is accepted as normal in football, but called padding here.
 
Brady has never had the continuous collection that Manning was afforded. He also made Welker, or the system did I should say. The only legit all-pro receiving talent Brady had (prior to Gronk/Hernandez) was Moss, and look what those two achieved that initial season. I can't even imagine what Brady would have done with Moss during his prime years, let alone a Harrison or Wayne. Gronk is fantastic, and seemingly never fit until this season. Hernandez blew it - he could have become a great player.

Funny you left out Harrison, Wayne, James, Clark - all pros in Indy. And a guy like Stokely would have been option number one in New England by default whereas he was fourth option in Indy. It's clear as day Brady has never had the collection of talent that Manning had. The one season Brady did have great offensive talent he set passing records and his team went 16-0 in the regular season, and that collection of offensive talent still wasn't a better group than Manning had from 1999-2011.

Stokely would have been option number one? It's crazy how you can say that Brady make Welker (who had good seasons before and after Brady and cost a 2nd round pick and was a star in college) yet act like Stokely (who never was any good before or after Manning would have been option number one. As for Gronkowski never being fit until this year, he played all 16 games in 2011 and had 1300 yards and 17 touchdowns.

You're just saying things that you wish to be true without checking whether or not they actually are.
 
Argh, tough loss.

Good game, the TD score before HT was a killer. I felt we should've run the ball more with Blount/Gray.

Pats have a decent schedule to end the year so I'm still confident we'll be able to secure #1 spot in the AFC.

McDaniels does that sometimes- he tries a couple of early running plays, they don't work, then it's like he says to himself "fu*k it, if the run's not working early it won't work later either so we'll just give it Brady and let him win the game". They were playing a team ranked 30th in run defence last night- Gray and Blount should have been given a chance to tear it up.
 
Stokely would have been option number one? It's crazy how you can say that Brady make Welker (who had good seasons before and after Brady and cost a 2nd round pick and was a star in college) yet act like Stokely (who never was any good before or after Manning would have been option number one. As for Gronkowski never being fit until this year, he played all 16 games in 2011 and had 1300 yards and 17 touchdowns.

You're just saying things that you wish to be true without checking whether or not they actually are.

I said the system made Welker. Learn to read, Eboue, not just cherry pick. Like forgetting Harrison, Wayne, James and Clark played for the Colts, if you're going to tell someone to check truths.

My saying Stokely would have been Brady's top option is an opinion, but based on exactly who Brady was throwing too from 2003-2006 it's not such a wild claim. If he could break out in the vacuum that was Indianapolis, then certainly he would have in New England's system. Gronk had two fit seasons, his first two, and has since been injured frequently, representing a pattern, so it's a valid assessment to state he's seldom fit yet wildly over-exaggerated on my part.

So that's two all-pro receivers for Brady (Moss 2x in NE, Gronk 2x) and zero running backs with none of them on a championship winning season (Moss having played in the Super Bowl with Brady, and Gronk in another Super Bowl with Brady), versus three all-pro receivers for Manning (Harrison 8x, Wayne 3x, Clark 1x) and one all-pro running-back (James 1x), with all but James having won the Super Bowl with Manning and two (Clark, Wayne) in another Super Bowl with Manning. Harrison, Clark, Wayne, and James all played together from 2001-2005.
 
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I said the system made Welker. Learn to read, Eboue, not just cherry pick. Like forgetting Harrison, Wayne, James and Clark played for the Colts, if you're going to tell someone to check truths.

My saying Stokely would have been Brady's top option is an opinion, but based on exactly who Brady was throwing too from 2003-2006 it's not such a wild claim. If he could break out in the vacuum that was Indianapolis, then certainly he would have in New England's system. Gronk had two fit seasons, his first two, and has since been injured frequently, representing a pattern, so it's a valid assessment to state he's seldom fit yet wildly over-exaggerated on my part.

So that's two solid all-pro receivers for Brady (Moss, Gronk) and zero running backs with none of them on a championship winning season and only Moss having played in the Super Bowl with Brady, versus three all-pro receivers for Manning (Harrison, Wayne, Clark) and one running-back (James), with all but James having won the Super Bowl with Manning and two (Clark, Wayne) in another Super Bowl witn

The system didn't make Welker. He had 2 1000 yard seasons at Texas Tech and 700 yards in his last season in Miami despite not being a starter. I didn't mention the Colts guys because I'm not the one trying to make a case that QB A had great weapons while B and C did not. I think they all had about equal except Rodgers didn't have a true #1 except for Nelson these last two years.

Who cares what running backs who had? That's not what this debate is about. Though Kevin Faulk was a better receiving running back than anyone Rodgers or Manning has ever had. Randy Moss is the best receiver between Rice and Calvin and depending on who you talk to, he's better than Calvin. That's a big advantage.
 
The system didn't make Welker. He had 2 1000 yard seasons at Texas Tech and 700 yards in his last season in Miami despite not being a starter. I didn't mention the Colts guys because I'm not the one trying to make a case that QB A had great weapons while B and C did not. I think they all had about equal except Rodgers didn't have a true #1 except for Nelson these last two years.

Who cares what running backs who had? That's not what this debate is about. Though Kevin Faulk was a better receiving running back than anyone Rodgers or Manning has ever had. Randy Moss is the best receiver between Rice and Calvin and depending on who you talk to, he's better than Calvin. That's a big advantage.

Edgerrin James pisses all over Kevin Faulk! You're likely thinking of Marshall Faulk. And yes, a top tier RB was a massive asset, still is, especially back when RBs were utilized in that era in a much different capacity than today's pass-happy era. Takes quite a bit of pressure off a QB when the opposing defense has to contend with a legitimate running threat.

Moss isn't the second or third best receiver ever for me. He had the talent to be the best but not the mental capacity. Fantastic talent, great player but give me the likes of Rice, Irvin, Harrison, Carter, Calvin, Sterling Sharpe over him any day. Took plays off that didn't include him, was only a deep threat guy, hated going over the middle on short routes, wouldn't block to save his life, not a team guy. Hell, even TO would block for teammates, go over the middle, and not take plays off that didn't include him.

Welker's college stats don't mean shit. He is a total system guy, and Mike Leach's systems at Tech had the QB throw 50+ each game with much less running plays. Leach used a crazy spread offense that had 4-5 receivers every down. Klingsbury attempted 1826 passes from 2000-2002, an average of 49.3 per game, and Harrell attempted 55.3 in 2003 (Welker's final year), clearly inflating all statistics, probably indicative of why Welker went undrafted. Welker is good player IMO, but nowhere near the level of a Rice, Moss, Gronk, Harrison, Wayne, etc. He's the perfect slot/underneath/bailout guy, no doubt, but probably wouldn't produce nearly as much without a great QB and/or system. He's probably not replicating those numbers with the Buccaneers or Vikings in those days.

My debate is Brady vs Manning. I've never compared Rodgers to either and I think he's done ever more with less, up there with Elway (the 80s version not the late 90s when he had talent stacked all around him).
 
Edgerrin James pisses all over Kevin Faulk! You're likely thinking of Marshall Faulk. And yes, a top tier RB was a massive asset, still is, especially back when RBs were utilized in that era in a much different capacity than today's pass-happy era. Takes quite a bit of pressure off a QB when the opposing defense has to contend with a legitimate running threat.

Moss isn't the second or third best receiver ever for me. He had the talent to be the best but not the mental capacity. Fantastic talent, great player but give me the likes of Rice, Irvin, Harrison, Carter, Calvin, Sterling Sharpe over him any day. Took plays off that didn't include him, was only a deep threat guy, hated going over the middle on short routes, wouldn't block to save his life, not a team guy. Hell, even TO would block for teammates, go over the middle, and not take plays off that didn't include him.

Welker's college stats don't mean shit. He is a total system guy, and Mike Leach's systems at Tech had the QB throw 50+ each game with much less running plays. Leach used a crazy spread offense that had 4-5 receivers every down. Klingsbury attempted 1826 passes from 2000-2002, an average of 49.3 per game, and Harrell attempted 55.3 in 2003 (Welker's final year), clearly inflating all statistics, probably indicative of why Welker went undrafted. Welker is good player IMO, but nowhere near the level of a Rice, Moss, Gronk, Harrison, Wayne, etc. He's the perfect slot/underneath/bailout guy, no doubt, but probably wouldn't produce nearly as much without a great QB and/or system. He's probably not replicating those numbers with the Buccaneers or Vikings in those days.

My debate is Brady vs Manning. I've never compared Rodgers to either and I think he's done ever more with less, up there with Elway (the 80s version not the late 90s when he had talent stacked all around him).


So much nonsense here.

Reread what I said about Faulk. I said receiving running back. 14% of James' touches were as a receiver. 33% of Faulks' touches were as a receiver.

The list of guys you would take over Moss is a list of great receivers who were a notch below Moss.

1000 yard seasons:

Moss: 10
Harrison: 8
Carter: 8
Irvin: 7
Sharpe: 5

Seasons leading league in touchdowns:

Moss: 5
Harrison: 1
Carter: 3
Irvin: 0
Sharpe: 2




If Welker's college stats don't mean shit, why is it that no other Tech receiver except Crabtree made an impression in the NFL? Why is it that he had a good year with Joey Freaking Harrington throwing to him in Miami?
 
:lol: Irvin, Carter, Harrison a notch below Moss. Because stats reflect everything. Sharpe's career ended prematurely or his numbers would be far higher; Irvin played in a system that ran the ball more than thrown. Stats show Bledsoe threw for more yards and TDs than Jim Kelly and Steve Young so he must be better. How many rings does Moss have? How often did he contribute to a championship team?

Because college stats don't always translate to NFL production. Exhibit: Just about any Miami U QB post-Vinny (Walsh, Erickson, Toretta, etc.). Brad Johnson rarely started at FSU and became a decent starting QB in the NFL. Welker clearly had NFL talent which I never said otherwise. And obviously 1) most scouts don't rate the talent at Tech, and apparently rightfully so, and b) got it wrong on Welker's ability. Imagine that - scouts do not possess a 100% efficiency. Oh, and Chambers (59), McMichael (62), and Booker (55) weren't too far behind Welker in that 2006 Miami season. All-time greats those guys were.

James averaged 51 receptions per season, and over 360 touches, from 99-05 playing with Manning. Faulk averaged 40.6 receptions and 77.2 touches from 00-09 playing with Brady (removing 99 w/o Brady and 10-11 when he was a nothing player, stats that would drastically reduce the previous numbers). James did far much more in addition to being a solid pass blocker. Receiving percentage means squat when one back is both running and receiving more than another. Faulk was a scat back option anyhow, a receiving target only, and even then he didn't have better production than James in that department. James was the complete package at the position, very similar to Emmitt and Davis.
 
It does have relevance because that's how you debate across the board. You consistently ignore statistics and use your memory and biases, no matter how many times they are proven to be unreliable. Statistics aren't just randomly generated numbers. They are a record of what actually happened. eboueoutforreal
 
So tossing out stats that reflect Moss has 10 1000 yard seasons versus say Irvin with 7 and Sharpe 5 is ok, because you did it, but when I show that James both ran and caught the ball more than Faulk, it's random because I posted. I see now. eboueisalwaysrightnomatterwhat
 
One step closer to Mariota

:lol:


As Moss vs all those other receivers: he was a level up from Marvin Harrison anyway. Not a contest there. As for Calvin Johnson, well, Johnson's more physical anyway, but Moss was a freak of nature. He made catching, jumping and running look so effortless. Johnson's great, but Moss would get my vote.
I've never seen any of the other receivers play so I can't judge.

Moss was an absolute diva, though. But that can be said for most of the top receivers.
 
Saw a mock draft on sbnation and the guy was responding to all the comments. This one about Mariota was very interesting.
Taking Mariota is more of a risk
Then RGIII is right now. He rarely throws to covered targets, more often throwing to wide open targets. We have no concept of his accuracy, his decision making, how he handles pressure in the pocket, nothing. He has a lot of work to do to become a quality NFL QB.
 
Heard a stat on Brady's record in December: 45-7. That's ridiculous. Romo needs to borrow some of that Brady bottle this month.
Geez, that is some record, hope he adds another notch to it this week.

As for the Coybows, hope they pick it up too, would like to see them do well, be delighted if they overtook the Eagles, for damn sure.
 
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Ryan brothers will both be unemployed soon.

And there's the weekly elite interception...