This is just a crazy situation. There really is no easy way to do this
NFL 2022
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
I understand that not playing the game now could have be an impact on seeding and who plays who but at the end of the day so what? A person's life has to be more important
Straight cash, homie.
Fair enough but at the of the day, surely a persons life is more important than a game of football. Both teams are in the playoffs at the end the day and more than capable of going all the way and winning the SB.
There are bigger things to worry about, but I can think of worse ways of settling it than just awarding the game as a tie. I doubt either side would complain all that much about that result?
I’m not for one moment disagreeing that Hamlin’s life is far more important. I’m just highlighting the complexities involved.
The Bengals would be happy because it wins them the division. The Bills obviously lose the first seed most likely, but I think they would accept it in the circumstances. And I’d expect the Ravens to understand and accept, and they most likely wouldn’t have won the division anyway, but they would potentially lose out for circumstances out of their control. The Chiefs fine as they likely take the first seed.
Please don’t confuse this with me suggesting that any of this is more important than the life and wellbeing of the player and everyone else who was there at the time and likely found it traumatic. It absolutely was the right call to postpone the game and figure out these consequences later. But, I’m just highlighting that it isn’t a simple problem to solve. Even if the problem in the grand scheme of things is secondary to what caused it.
Of course. Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a complexity to solve now though, even if it was absolutely right to postpone the game and deal with this later as I said above.
Yeah I’m not saying you are mate. It’s just surely common sense both teams will be happy to either tie or null and void it. Last thing they want is to play the game and God forbid but who knows, a key player gets injured and is ruled out of the playoffs.
Yup. I don’t think either team would want to cram in the fixture. It’s just too physical a sport. I would tend to agree that these outcomes most likely make the most sense.
The NFL must have some protocol for this. Not necessarily for a game postponement for an injury, but over the years there must be other postponements maybe, be it weather or something else? What’s the precedent from those games? Although perhaps in those circumstances they were able to play it at another date, whereas this might be uniquely right at the season end?
I think nulling the game as a no result, rather than tie, is probably the fairest outcome.
Has its downsides, but it seems to be the best option.
Has this ever happened before?
No idea. I guess Ravens and Bengals still get chance to fight for division. Chiefs likely get 1 seed at expense of Bills, but I guess Bills would probably accept in circumstances. Bengals could have some gripe as if they’d won they could have had a shot at 1st seed but I think it’s not a huge issue in scheme of things as Chiefs likely win this week. At least this way, rather than a tie, you don’t decide the AFC North. It’s the best option I’d say though.
$5 fecking million dollars. In less than 20 hours.
The world may suck at times, but it’s wonderful to see brief, beautiful glimpses of humanity like this.
What happened?
From what I understand a player had a cardiac arrest after a chest impact. Got up after the impact and collapsed?
How long was he down before he stood up?
I mean, short of massive trauma that would rupture his aorta I can't think of anything else beyond that that would cause and instantaneous collapse followed by cardiac arrest. Other chest related traumatic causes of death from smaller impacts would be caused by rib fractures like tension pneumothorax or cardiac tamponade (e,g, a rib fracture puncturing the "bag" where the heart sits and bleeding inside causing external pressure to collapse the heart) take a while to build up to cardiac arrest. Even then, these sort of injuries are, I would think, almost exclusively high energy accidtents lile vehicle crashes or falls from height.
I can understand why a few people are talking about commotio cardio but that's the kind of thing so freakishly rare that it's a medical textbook curiosity and unlikely to have specific treatment. I even doubt I would have remembered that if I hadn't read it here and I work in a fecking emergency room.
Autopsy will answer it, if they don't find anything unusual commotio cardio will be ruled in as a probable cause. I assume it's a diagnosis of exclusion.
As for the lenght of time on the pitch, I dont know how long you mean but modern guidelines are inequivocal on this. Your chances of recovering after cardiac arrest (and of being in good health after treatment) are dependent on maintaining perfusion of vital organs and the most critical is the brain, which will have parts of it "dying" in 5 minutes or less. CPR needs to start immediately and cannot be interrupted.
Until he has a pulse, it's pointless to move him. I am assuming he had advanced life support (defirillator, adrenaline shots) If that is the case, you put him in a hospital and that's exatly what will be done anyway, with anything else being futile. Of course, other things will be done in a proper reanimation room, however most of that is expediting further diagnosis and treatment. It will still be pointless if there's no pulse.
Put it this way, if you have to chose between two hypothetical scenarios:
- You have a cardiac arrest and have someone well trained doing chest compressions 1 minute after you collapse, and for 10 minutes it's all you're going to have
- You are in a ER with ICU, ventilators, dozens of trained professionals, but it will take 5 minutes to get you there and there will be no chest compressions in the meanwhile... You always chose the former.
Compressions can't be interrupted. Previous guidelines would have you stopping every two minutes for some mouth-to-mouth breathing (5-10 seconds) but it is no longer the case, except in near-drowning I think. It's more important getting blood to the brain than getting oxygen to the blood.
The simple act of moving a person and putting her inside an ambulance will compromise optimal chest compressions for a few vital seconds.
Last edited:
Have you seen the incident & the aftermath? If not, you basically nailed what the medical professionals did. The diagnosis of commotio cardio (sp?) has been bandied about a whole bunch.
There’s also been a lot of discussion that, outside of a hospital, the player suffered the episode at the best possible place he could have as there is typically 20 to 25 first responders / medical professionals of various ilk on each sideline & kitted out with defibrillators (not sure about adrenaline shots if they had any on the sidelines). They were on top of him within 30 seconds of the collapse & were performing CRP very shortly thereafter. Each team performs biannual training programs on how to deal with such incidents & they appeared to have paid off last night.
No, I just saw your tag and skimmed through the previous posts, hence the question of how long was he down before getting up and collapsing. I even had assumed he died until I read the last sentence of your post. It's an amazing outcome, though only time will tell if he recovered with or without brain damage. Only now I read some news about it. These things are the same everywhere, so it's easy to guess what professionals were doing.
There are only a couple of algorithms for adult ressuscitation: Basic Life Support and Advanced Life Support. BLS can be performed by laymen and all you need is knowing it and your body. Then there's ALS which presumes medical professionals and equipment. The later is basically the former with added defibrillators and drugs (adrenaline plus a couple of others to alternate in specific scenarios). Now we're starting to have a sort of middle-of the road algorithm which is BLS + defibrillator, given that AED's are now designed to be used by laymen and are slowly becoming ubiquitous in public places with frequent large crowds [there are more nuances than this, but it's the gist of it].
In my country first responders will always have ALS with them so I am assuming it was present at the stadium.
The algorithms are so simple and objective that the presence of a doctor is nearly redundant at that early stage (and many doctors are likely to mess up on this if they don't deal with these scenarios often and aren't working in an environment that requires frequent retraining).
Ultimately, the most important thing is quality chest compressions. This is so important that the adjective "quality" is repated everytime before the words "chest compressions" on most guidelines, which makes for some weird reading but they deemed necessary to become ingrained on the reader.
You can deduce from this that, outside an hospital, trained paramedics are your best bet here, far more important than a "random" doctor.
I recommend anyone to download and read BLS guidelines (they include algorithms + explanation). Read what quality chest compressions are. Knowing BLS is better than nothing. Formal training is better, but ultimately, even with no training you can save someone's life one day. You don't know when that is coming but you'll regret it if one day it happens and you are not prepared. You'll be exhausted in 60 seconds if you don't position yourself properly, for example.
Forget about being an unlikely hero in a crowded place. Find the motivation to read the guidelines in understanding that, given the nature of probabilites, if you ever need to do it, it's more likely that it will be on a loved one than on a stranger. It's the people who live with you.
Last edited:
Think they could do something like this
Sunday Jan 8th
Bills v Patriots (as planned)
Bengals v Ravens (as planned)
Thursday Jan 12th
Bills v Bengals (resume with the scoreline 3-7)
Tuesday Jan 17th
Bills v ???
Bengals v ???
(both of them play their wildcard games - assuming chiefs get the bye week)
Pretty brutal I know but I think 3-4 days rest between each game is 'ok'.
So awful
The whole thing is awful. First and foremost hope he pulls through and recovers. From what I read he wouldn't get NFL insurance (medical insuranc) as he hasn't played three years in the NFL (two and a bit years)
Very harsh especially if on a relatively low contract compared to others.
Hopefully NFL comes to a quick solution (and agreed with teams ). Don't want that hanging on for too long
Very harsh especially if on a relatively low contract compared to others.
Hopefully NFL comes to a quick solution (and agreed with teams ). Don't want that hanging on for too long
Isn’t the average NFL career length 3 years?
There pretty shocking if it’s true about the insurance.
NFL already communicated yesterday that the game won't be resumed this week, so that scenario is out of the question I think.
Great news that.
I think it’s going to be postponing this week of games and then pushing everything back a week. That’s the only reasonable solution
Wouldn't it make much more sense then to play Wk 18 as scheduled, push every playoff weekend a week back and play the Bills @ Bengals game next weekend, when WC Weekend was supposed to be?
Teams are already preparing for their Wk 18 games right now, stadium logistics, police schedules and whatnot. Also 18 teams finish up their season this weekend. Imo it's more of a hassle to ask EVERYONE to wait for a week just for one game, rather than move everything a week back just to have the Bills @ Bengals game before "official Wk 18".
But not sure if they can even have a Wk 17 game after Wk 18 has officially been concluded... It would also mean that all AFC playoff teams sit around for a week not knowing who they'll play before the Bengals and Bills have played out their game, so that's less than ideal either.
If this is true about insurance, it’s nothing short of despicable.
Don't see that happening. Too logistically challenging.
What element of medical insurance do you mean as there are obviously different things that need to be covered.
Are you talking about insurance for loss of future earnings due to an injury / medical issue - or his medical bills not being covered?
Either way, despicable if true as everything should be covered the moment you step onto the pitch - be it day one of your career or the last game of a 15 year legacy
One silver lining that could help ameliorate any potential financial hardships is the GFM account. It's now over six million.
For sure. I might be wrong and would be happy to be corrected (as I may have misunderstood the point).
Yeah you're right. I had a quick look and found this:
Under their labor agreement, vested NFL players — those who played at least three seasons — are entitled to five years of medical coverage after they retire.
So right now he's not entitled to that if he had to retire / stop playing.
I think at the very least, any bills right now would be covered by the club which is good.
Think what happens after is the problem due to loss of earnings.
I can't find too much on it so will defo try read up more on it but remember the three year thing from time ago and it was brought up again on radio a day or two ago.
So I think what I read of this is:
He almost certainly has medical insurance right now as an employee, and as such anything now is being covered.
The Bills may have insurance policies for injured players (I believe PL clubs do this) whereby the insurer covers salary costs whilst a player is injured. Not sure if this exists in the NFL.
What you’re talking about is medical cover post retirement. Still a crude policy, especially given how physically demanding the sport is and 3 years is a long time. But I guess it’s a clause in the, for example, “you don’t get maternity benefits if you’ve only been employed somewhere for a year” type of thing. But like I said, I think that’s a ridiculous policy. It’s even ridiculous for those who benefit from it - I’m not convinced 5y is sufficient.
I can relate to the bottom part. I had to be guided through how to do CPR on a old guy who collapsed in the street, having had no experience previously. It took about 10 mins to someone to find a defibrillator and what felt like another 10 mins for an ambulance to arrive.
I knew it was almost impossible that he would be alive due to his age and how long it took someone trained to arrive. Pretty horrible experience given his wife was next to me. I vowed to do a proper first aid course after this, and I still haven’t got round to it.
It's probably a CBA thing as it takes a certain number of years to qualify for pension.
Thanks, makes me feel a little better and clears it up better
But yes in agreement with you especially the last statements
Heard an interesting take on a local (Tampa) radio station that what if something of this nature had occurred in a playoff game, or the Super Bowl?
There is no chance* the NFL would suspend the Super Bowl with all the logistics involved but imagine trying to finish that game with that incident in your head. A playoff game would be tricky as well with further playoff games to be played. A conference championship game could be resumed in the off-weekend before the Super Bowl.
*Maybe they would but I have my doubts.
There is no chance* the NFL would suspend the Super Bowl with all the logistics involved but imagine trying to finish that game with that incident in your head. A playoff game would be tricky as well with further playoff games to be played. A conference championship game could be resumed in the off-weekend before the Super Bowl.
*Maybe they would but I have my doubts.
I just saw a patient today who is 52 and collapsed at home. Wife gave CPR for 8 minutes and then needed shocks by paramedics. Somehow he survived and after a couple of months in intensive care he is fine now.
Nice. Especially so seen as he was only 52 - that’s a lot of potential time together that’s been restored.
I think in some countries, doing basic first aid courses are mandatory for the driving test. Maybe it could be done between the ages of 16-18 instead of extra maths
- Status