So 1) you just want to ask the question but not read or at least comment on posts which provide you with some kind of response, and 2) you are trying to use numbers to explain why Brady isn't the best QB, even though he missed 4 games?
NFL 2016/17
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So 1) you just want to ask the question but not read or at least comment on posts which provide you with some kind of response, and 2) you are trying to use numbers to explain why Brady isn't the best QB, even though he missed 4 games?
There are many arguments for Brady as MVP (maybe not incredible arguments, but still arguments). 11-1 record, the best TD-INT ratio in the league (a record as well, i think?), incredibly consistent performances all season. All without very good receivers (bar Edelman). Winning is everything, and Brady is the best player (ever) at just that. Stats and yards are cool, but they don't really tell the whole story. At least not when you're out for four games.
He may not be the best QB this year COMFORTABLY, but he's the best QB this year. Your view is skewed because stats (and mine is skewed because Pats).
But then again, these arguments are mentioned earlier in this thread, if you just bothered to read them.
EDIT: I know it's silly and stupid, but if you calculate Bradys stats if he played 16 games (using his season averages), he's up there in almost any category.
4th in passing yards: 4739 (Brees 5208, Ryan 4944, Cousins 4917)
3rd in Passing TD: 37,5 (Rodgers 40, Ryan 38, Brees 37)
1st in INT: 2,5 (Prescott 4, Ryan 7, Rodgers 7, Brees 15)
2nd in passer rating: 112,2 (Ryan 117,1, Prescott 104,9, Rodgers 104,2)
1st in TD-INT ratio: 15 (!) (Ryan 5,5, Brees 2,5, Rodgers 5,7, Prescott 5,7)
Without elite receivers. Arguments using numbers to back that statement up.
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He's got 28 TDs compared to ARs 40.
Wildcard Weekend
AFC
Miami @ Pittsburgh
Oakland @ Houston
NFC
New York @ Green Bay
Detroit @ Seattle
Divisional Weekend
AFC
Houston @ New England
Pittsburgh @ Kansas
NFC
Green Bay @ Dallas
Detroit @ Atlanta
Championship Weekend
AFC
Kansas @ New England
NFC
Atlanta @ Dallas
Super Bowl 51
New England vs Atlanta
AFC
Miami @ Pittsburgh
Oakland @ Houston
NFC
New York @ Green Bay
Detroit @ Seattle
Divisional Weekend
AFC
Houston @ New England
Pittsburgh @ Kansas
NFC
Green Bay @ Dallas
Detroit @ Atlanta
Championship Weekend
AFC
Kansas @ New England
NFC
Atlanta @ Dallas
Super Bowl 51
New England vs Atlanta
Don't mean to split hairs but he didn't say the most TD's..
Guys, calm down 
I didn't respond to @rpitroda yet because I didn't have time to, wasn't ignoring the post what so ever.
Let's be clear too, it's not like I've said Brady shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion, I actually said he's had a great year. "stats and yards are cool but don't tell the whole story", they still should without a shadow of a doubt be taken into consideration in something like this. You can't just discount stats and numbers because it doesn't favours the person you're trying to make an argument for. I mention stats and yards, they don't tell the entire story, but hey, Brady has 11-1 and the best TD-INT record...so those stats matter but the others don't?
Brady did miss four games, of course that effected his numbers. Would he have topped stats if he didn't? Maybe, maybe not. That's all if's and buts, I'm going off of what's actually happened this season. Nobody is sitting here saying Brady hasn't been great, I'm saying he hasn't been the best QB and isn't the MVP for me and I honestly don't get how somebody can view Brady as COMFORTABLY the best QB this year, as if he's completely blitzed everybody else in a season where you've had the likes of Matt Ryan on absolute fire for the most part.
I also don't buy into this idea that Brady doesn't have much around him. As I said he's playing under a guy regarded as the greatest coach of all time, in arguably the best system in football and actually does have options around him (and yes, I get that those aren't necessarily elite options like a Ryan has in Julio for example, bar Gronk of course while he was fit).
My view isn't skewed because of stats, because I'm not actually basing this solely on stats. I think the likes of Ryan, Bell, Elliot, Rogers and more have been just as important to their teams as Brady this season. I've already given my argument on Bell simply because I'm a Steelers fan so have watched every game to know how huge of a player he's been this season. So if I felt Ryan has been as important to his team or Rogers has been as important to his team as Brady has for the Pats...and they both also have better numbers than Brady, why would I give the nod to Brady?
I didn't respond to @rpitroda yet because I didn't have time to, wasn't ignoring the post what so ever.Let's be clear too, it's not like I've said Brady shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion, I actually said he's had a great year. "stats and yards are cool but don't tell the whole story", they still should without a shadow of a doubt be taken into consideration in something like this. You can't just discount stats and numbers because it doesn't favours the person you're trying to make an argument for. I mention stats and yards, they don't tell the entire story, but hey, Brady has 11-1 and the best TD-INT record...so those stats matter but the others don't?
Brady did miss four games, of course that effected his numbers. Would he have topped stats if he didn't? Maybe, maybe not. That's all if's and buts, I'm going off of what's actually happened this season. Nobody is sitting here saying Brady hasn't been great, I'm saying he hasn't been the best QB and isn't the MVP for me and I honestly don't get how somebody can view Brady as COMFORTABLY the best QB this year, as if he's completely blitzed everybody else in a season where you've had the likes of Matt Ryan on absolute fire for the most part.
I also don't buy into this idea that Brady doesn't have much around him. As I said he's playing under a guy regarded as the greatest coach of all time, in arguably the best system in football and actually does have options around him (and yes, I get that those aren't necessarily elite options like a Ryan has in Julio for example, bar Gronk of course while he was fit).
My view isn't skewed because of stats, because I'm not actually basing this solely on stats. I think the likes of Ryan, Bell, Elliot, Rogers and more have been just as important to their teams as Brady this season. I've already given my argument on Bell simply because I'm a Steelers fan so have watched every game to know how huge of a player he's been this season. So if I felt Ryan has been as important to his team or Rogers has been as important to his team as Brady has for the Pats...and they both also have better numbers than Brady, why would I give the nod to Brady?
Sure. But did you bother to read the post? I never said he had the most TDs.
Guys, calm down
Let's be clear too, it's not like I've said Brady shouldn't be anywhere near the discussion, I actually said he's had a great year. "stats and yards are cool but don't tell the whole story", they still should without a shadow of a doubt be taken into consideration in something like this. You can't just discount stats and numbers because it doesn't favours the person you're trying to make an argument for. I mention stats and yards, they don't tell the entire story, but hey, Brady has 11-1 and the best TD-INT record...so those stats matter but the others don't?
Brady did miss four games, of course that effected his numbers. Would he have topped stats if he didn't? Maybe, maybe not. That's all if's and buts, I'm going off of what's actually happened this season. Nobody is sitting here saying Brady hasn't been great, I'm saying he hasn't been the best QB and isn't the MVP for me and I honestly don't get how somebody can view Brady as COMFORTABLY the best QB this year, as if he's completely blitzed everybody else in a season where you've had the likes of Matt Ryan on absolute fire for the most part.
I also don't buy into this idea that Brady doesn't have much around him. As I said he's playing under a guy regarded as the greatest coach of all time, in arguably the best system in football and actually does have options around him (and yes, I get that those aren't necessarily elite options like a Ryan has in Julio for example, bar Gronk of course while he was fit).
My view isn't skewed because of stats, because I'm not actually basing this solely on stats. I think the likes of Ryan, Bell, Elliot, Rogers and more have been just as important to their teams as Brady this season. I've already given my argument on Bell simply because I'm a Steelers fan so have watched every game to know how huge of a player he's been this season. So if I felt Ryan has been as important to his team or Rogers has been as important to his team as Brady has for the Pats...and they both also have better numbers than Brady, why would I give the nod to Brady?
We're calm, just butthurt
I didn't discard stats at all, I tried to make an agurment using stats (sorry if you read it before the edit), as well as saying that stats don't really tell the whole story. Sure, Ryan has been excellent and a total stud, but his and Bradys average numbers are very similar in every category.
I do buy your argument about playing under BB and the best system in football, though!
@JP77 be crazy daring to not consider Brady god on here.My point was his stats look nicer as he hasn't thrown as much and not as many TDs as some other QBs this year. It's to be taken in context.
Ah, alright then. Sorry for the bad tone.
Ryan should win, Brady should be runner up. Aaron Rodgers is not even in the conversation.
I'd reduce the MVP list to Brady, Elliott, Ryan, and David Johnson
Brady has had a phenomenal year, but I would find it a bit odd giving it to someone who didn't play the entire year and missed games because he did something wrong.
Elliot is a strong contender. Its not often that you see a Rookie rush for 1631 yards in only 15 games. He's been a driving force behind Dallas' rise this year.
Ryan had the league's highest QB rating while passing for nearly 5k yards. Incredible numbers.
David Johnson had the best year of anyone - over 1200 yards rushing and 80 receptions. Mind boggling for a RB. Best performce iirc since LT's 2003 season where he rushed for 1600 and caught 100.
You could give it to any of the above and not get much of an argument.
Brady has had a phenomenal year, but I would find it a bit odd giving it to someone who didn't play the entire year and missed games because he did something wrong.
Elliot is a strong contender. Its not often that you see a Rookie rush for 1631 yards in only 15 games. He's been a driving force behind Dallas' rise this year.
Ryan had the league's highest QB rating while passing for nearly 5k yards. Incredible numbers.
David Johnson had the best year of anyone - over 1200 yards rushing and 80 receptions. Mind boggling for a RB. Best performce iirc since LT's 2003 season where he rushed for 1600 and caught 100.
You could give it to any of the above and not get much of an argument.
Osweiler and Cook confirmed as starting QBs for Raiders @ Texans, talk about an underwhelming matchup...
I think Rodgers deserves to be in the MVP discussion much more than Johnson. Without him, the Packers wouldn't even be close to a playoff spot this season. Johnson's team is already finished despite having one of the strongest rosters in the NFC. He had an amazing year stats wise and was one of the best offensive players in the league, no doubt about that, but in terms of most valuable player for his team, not even close imo. They just didn't win enough.
If I had to chose now, I'd go:
1. Ryan
2. Brady
3. Elliott
4. Carr
5. Rodgers
6. Stafford
I think Rodgers deserves to be in the MVP discussion much more than Johnson. Without him, the Packers wouldn't even be close to a playoff spot this season. Johnson's team is already finished despite having one of the strongest rosters in the NFC. He had an amazing year stats wise and was one of the best offensive players in the league, no doubt about that, but in terms of most valuable player for his team, not even close imo. They just didn't win enough.
If I had to chose now, I'd go:
1. Ryan
2. Brady
3. Elliott
4. Carr
5. Rodgers
6. Stafford
I like Robin's predictions 
I have no hope against the Packers for Giants, but that's exactly how 2007 and 2011 panned out as well. Come on Eli, one last effort from you.
I have no hope against the Packers for Giants, but that's exactly how 2007 and 2011 panned out as well. Come on Eli, one last effort from you.
He really doesn't. Taylor Gabriel was cut by the Browns. Mohammed Sanu was the fourth option in Cincinnati. He's got the three headed monster of mediocrity at tight end with Tamme, Hooper and Toiloiloiloilo. Ryan has Julio Jones, some good running backs (are they significantly better than Blount/Lewis/White? Probasbly not) and a terrible defense.
The TD-INT record really doesn't mean much when you consider Brady broke the all time record held by Nicholas Edward Foles.
Why do Patriots fans downplay the quality of the rest of their team to big up Brady?
Possibly because Brady is like Messi/Ronaldo - the superstar who gets all the attention even though he's surrounded by excellent players in their own right.
That said, other than Moss & healthy Gronk, how many receivers has Brady had in his career who will go down as all-time greats? Welker, Branch, Edelman are all very good & reliable in their own right but I think it's fair to say Brady has/had elevated their games to another level. It's not so much about downplaying the team as much as it is about recognising that Brady is one of the greatest to have played the position and at 39 he's still setting records & showing no signs of slowing down (although I don't think he can continue at this level for more than 2 more seasons).
How many quarterbacks play with even 2 all time greats? Odd question.
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In my case i didn't mean to downplay the team at all. I just pointed at the fact that Edelman is the only really high quality receiver.
Other than that i actually feel the team has performed a lot better than most expected, at least on defense. I guess that comes with BB and his system, but I don't think many people believed in a 14-2 season before the first game, and even less when Collins got traded. Phenomenal season, and again it's Super Bowl or bust for the Pats.
He really doesn't. Taylor Gabriel was cut by the Browns. Mohammed Sanu was the fourth option in Cincinnati. He's got the three headed monster of mediocrity at tight end with Tamme, Hooper and Toiloiloiloilo. Ryan has Julio Jones, some good running backs (are they significantly better than Blount/Lewis/White? Probasbly not) and a terrible defense.
What does DVOA stand for?
I don't entirely disagree with you. On backs I'd say yes, both teams are equal. At WR I do disagree. Gabriel and Sanu might have been nobodies elsewhere but they've been very very important in that offence if you watch the games. Defence Patriots is better for sure.
Anyway, not really sure where this is going - have already said I'd like Ryan for MVP
I think that's a tad unfair...
No one (at least not me) is saying the team is shit. This is my view:
Our defence is surprisingly good especially against the run. Given who we have released it's overachieved and I'm happy. Our secondary is good but prone to giving up some plays.
Our offensive line is young, inexperienced, but tough. They are powerful in the run game. In the pass game, I'm not sure they play a significant role.
Our wide receivers are good, but I wouldn't say world class. After Edelman there is a dip in quality.
Tight end, yeah. Not much to be said here.
Running backs are good too. Not much special or poor. I'd say they are above average.
I'd actually twist the question on you and ask, why is it opposition fans constantly put Brady down? Oh he's got the best coach in history. Oh all he does is dunk and dunk. And so on and so forth.
I don't deny our players suit our system and our system is brilliant because of our excellent coaches but all i would say to those who come up with x and y reasons to down Brady, just watch him. And so many who try and put stats against him will be the first to explain why his playoff record and stats are not key. It's so easy to say dink and dunk yet clearly so difficult to fathom the skill and ability required to be able to accurately release the ball within 3 seconds to an open receiver.
Disagree. It's only because Rodgers didn't perform for the first half of the season that he had to become worldie in the second half. Yes his D sucked and so did the run game but so does Ryan's D suck and he performed all year right? And watching tape, Rodgers was actually missing throws and it wasn't just receivers not being open.
I just find it hard therefore to put Rodgers in. People say he ran the table and played brilliantly and so he's the reason they are in the playoff which may well be the case but the issue is he was a reason they had to run the table in the first place.
What? This has absolutely no baring whatsoever on TD-INT ratio though ... if anything, it actually works against Brady.
I'm not putting him down, it's just I often see fans saying Brady has no weapons and still looks the best of all time etc etc.
He's obviously great, but I do think the system, team and coaching plays a part. Jimmy G went 3-1 with ease as well.
He's unquestionably in the discussion for MVP and rightly so, but I'd put Ryan ahead of him as a QB personally and whoever it was that said Brady was "comfortably" better this year needs to put down the crack pipe.
Right yeah, that's why Ryan is my number 1 and Rodgers only 5th. I agree with you on your point that it was (partly) Rodgers who got them in a hole in the first place but he got them out as well and played brilliantly (best QB in the league after week 10 imo) in the process. That's why he should be in the conversation, but nowhere near the top spot.
Falcons D have let opponents score 406 points as against Packers 388. Not much of a difference there. In fact Packers are entering playoff with just one newbie cornerback. A couple of safeties will have to adapt and play CB due to injuries. Add in a partly functioning offence (no running game at all) Rodgers was more invaluable to the team imo.
I don't disagree with you there. I'd take Ryan too, as I've said.
But I would add - I don't think any other QB has been as successful with the quality of receivers he's had. That's not a comment related to who should get this years MVP but just in general over his career.
And, without a doubt our coaching and indeed our head coach have made ever so much easier than Brady. But, at the end of the day, he's just one man in a 53 roster surrounded by coaching staff. He can't control the fact that he has brilliant coaches around him and if that goes against him so be it.
I just take issue with some people (and I don't think you do) who say he isn't great because of it. Or who say look at his stats they are average. Because Brady isn't after the stats - we have in many games this year trashed teams in the first two quarters where his numbers have been unreal and then shut down just to game manage. Again, if that should go against him so be it, I guess.
See I personally disagree with that. Take out a horrendous period in the middle when your defence was just shocking, you've been pretty good otherwise on either side. Haven't the stats to prove it but I'd be shocked if that statement isn't correct.
Falcons constantly have had a poor defence. In my view that's much harder to overcome because you consistently need to bail your team out.
The only time Rodgers had a worse defence than the Falcons was when Rodgers was losing.
And I know you've had injuries and players out of position but Montgomery has done a very good job at running back. I just feel like when you were good at the start of the year you were good because you played like a great team. Then in the middle the whole team including Rodgers was poor and couldn't handle injuries. And in the final third or so of the season rodgers was the best QB in the league, no question. Just disagree with you that you can list those issues and say Rodgers overcame them because the fact of the matter is he didn't until the final third of the season.
As someone who had Brady as his fantasy QB, I have to say this is 100% accurate
Rodgers is more MVP to Packers than Brady to Patriots. Its not like Patriots were 0-5 with Brady out, he then came in and took them to playoffs.
D was the reason we lost to Cowboys, Titans, Redskins, Falcons and Colts.
Allowed 30+ points in all those games (a few 40+ games too)
With regards to stats, since a lot of people like them (context or not), this is what a quick search brings up:
Rodgers was responsible for 44/51 of the Packers TDs. 86%
Matt Ryan 38/63 of the Falcons TDs. 60%
Tom Brady 28/51 of the Pats TDs. 55%
Aaron Rodgers ends the season with 369 air yards lost due to dropped passes, the most of any quarterback in the NFL
Strangely, he also ran 369 yards, a career high
I know a lot of people will argue, and make points, but by definition of MVP, I think Rodgers is more valuable to Packers than Brady to Patriots this season.
Somebody with more throws is more likely to be intercepted though. Its all about context and how you look at it.
D was the reason we lost to Cowboys, Titans, Redskins, Falcons and Colts.
Allowed 30+ points in all those games (a few 40+ games too)
With regards to stats, since a lot of people like them (context or not), this is what a quick search brings up:
Rodgers was responsible for 44/51 of the Packers TDs. 86%
Matt Ryan 38/63 of the Falcons TDs. 60%
Tom Brady 28/51 of the Pats TDs. 55%
Aaron Rodgers ends the season with 369 air yards lost due to dropped passes, the most of any quarterback in the NFL
Strangely, he also ran 369 yards, a career high
I know a lot of people will argue, and make points, but by definition of MVP, I think Rodgers is more valuable to Packers than Brady to Patriots this season.
Somebody with more throws is more likely to be intercepted though. Its all about context and how you look at it.
Ty had 1 stellar game. Can't think of any other where he made a difference.
The offence was one dimensional for all season. Rodgers throws. And that's it.
He was the team rushing leader for half the season.
With a shaky defence and half an offence, our standing is all down to one man, Rodgers. Neither Brady nor Ryan nor Zeke were one man shows propping up the team till playoffs.
He's the MVP, hands down.
Is MVP for the whole season including post season or just the regular season?
What does DVOA stand for?
I don't entirely disagree with you. On backs I'd say yes, both teams are equal. At WR I do disagree. Gabriel and Sanu might have been nobodies elsewhere but they've been very very important in that offence if you watch the games. Defence Patriots is better for sure.
Anyway, not really sure where this is going - have already said I'd like Ryan for MVP
Defense adjusted value over average
www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods
Rodgers is more MVP to Packers than Brady to Patriots. Its not like Patriots were 0-5 with Brady out, he then came in and took them to playoffs.
D was the reason we lost to Cowboys, Titans, Redskins, Falcons and Colts.
Allowed 30+ points in all those games (a few 40+ games too)
With regards to stats, since a lot of people like them (context or not), this is what a quick search brings up:
Rodgers was responsible for 44/51 of the Packers TDs. 86%
Matt Ryan 38/63 of the Falcons TDs. 60%
Tom Brady 28/51 of the Pats TDs. 55%
Aaron Rodgers ends the season with 369 air yards lost due to dropped passes, the most of any quarterback in the NFL
Strangely, he also ran 369 yards, a career high
I know a lot of people will argue, and make points, but by definition of MVP, I think Rodgers is more valuable to Packers than Brady to Patriots this season.
Somebody with more throws is more likely to be intercepted though. Its all about context and how you look at it.
But someone who throws more is also more likely to get more touchdowns.
we will agree to disagree then. He's not MVP hands down though, that much is obvious.Just the regular season.
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