NFL 2015-2016

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Now the patriots know just how the Browns feel every year startng without a quarterback

What, you don't rate Johnny Football?

 

[Anderson's Cat]

What, you don't rate Johnny Football?

The only person who rates Johnny Football is Johnny Football.

 

[Eboue]

Pats fans on Twitter at the moment are remarkably reminiscent of Scousers when Suarez got banned. I've even seen 'Free Brady' t-shirt.

This is a good comparison.

 

[steve zizou]

Why deflate the balls (to make them easy to throw/catch), then proceed to run it up the gut of the Colts. Sure they broke the rules and needed to be punished but i'm not sure they "cheated" really. They gained no advantage from deflating the balls.
It'd be like fielding an illegible player, who get sent off in the first minute, in a game you ended up winning 5-0 with 10 men.

 

[Eboue]

Why deflate the balls (to make them easy to throw/catch), then proceed to run it up the gut of the Colts. Sure they broke the rules and needed to be punished but i'm not sure they "cheated" really. They gained no advantage from deflating the balls.
It'd be like fielding an illegible player, who get sent off in the first minute, in a game you ended up winning 5-0 with 10 men.

They'd been doing it for a while. The colts game is just when they got caught.

 

[Rado_N]

He should have respected the rules, so the punishment is natural. But since the PSI limits are totally arbitrary and aren't based on anything, saying that it modified the game is weird.

If it makes no difference why would Brady et al go to such lengths to alter the pressure?

Not to mention cover it up and refuse to comply with the investigation?

 

[JPRouve]

If it makes no difference why would Brady et al go to such lengths to alter the pressure?

Not to mention cover it up and refuse to comply with the investigation?

Some players want them harder other softer but the difference is minimal when you are at +10 PSI, it's a personal feeling, like boots or gloves no gloves. If it was an instrumental characteristic Rodgers wouldn't want them very inflated.

The problem is that the difference is noticeable when you feel a ball at 7-8 or 6-7, but 12-13 or 13-14, it's just a rock.

 

[Rado_N]

Some players want them harder other softer but the difference is minimal when you are at +10 PSI, it's a personal feeling, like boots or gloves no gloves. If it was an instrumental characteristic Rodgers wouldn't want them very inflated.

The problem is that the difference is noticeable when you feel a ball at 7-8 or 6-7, but 12-13 or 13-14, it's just a rock.

It still seems clear to me that Brady knowingly arranging the under inflation means it made a difference for him.

The PSI limits are what they are, he knew them, he was even involved in lobbying for the rule limits iirc, yet he consciously set pressures outside them.

That's cheating. That he then refused to cooperate made it worse hence the heavy punishment.

 

[JPRouve]

It still seems clear to me that Brady knowingly arranging the under inflation means it made a difference for him.

The PSI limits are what they are, he knew them, he was even involved in lobbying for the rule limits iirc, yet he consciously set pressures outside them.

That's cheating. That he then refused to cooperate made it worse hence the heavy punishment.

It made a difference in his head, he should be sanctioned because he didn't respected the rules but there is no need for all the 'they altered the game'.

 

[Rado_N]

It made a difference in his head, he should be sanctioned because he didn't respected the rules but there is no need for all the 'they altered the game'.

Well we don't know whether it did or not, it's certainly possible that it made the ball easier to catch and grip, and definitely throw if we consider they weren't just doing it in the one game so the "they ran the ball" argument doesn't really matter.

It's not really the vital point though, is it? Whether your cheating pays off or not, you did it.

 

[JPRouve]

Well we don't know whether it did or not, it's certainly possible that it made the ball easier to catch and grip, and definitely throw if we consider they weren't just doing it in the one game so the "they ran the ball" argument doesn't really matter.

It's not really the vital point though, is it? Whether your cheating pays off or not, you did it.

No one is arguing that they didn't respected the rules, the problem is that there is no elements who shows that a 11.9 PSI ball is easier to play than a 12.9 PSI ball, and in my opinion that's important to know the answer to this question because it's by knowing that, that the league can sanction fairly.

Edit: I agree with a sanction, I just don't agree with the sanction they chose.

 

[Eboue]

No one is arguing that they didn't respected the rules, the problem is that there is no elements who shows that a 11.9 PSI ball is easier to play than a 12.9 PSI ball, and in my opinion that's important to know the answer to this question because it's by knowing that, that the league can sanction fairly.

Edit: I agree with a sanction, I just don't agree with the sanction they chose.

There's got to be a cutoff somewhere. Everyone knew the cutoff and Brady willfully violated it.

 

[JPRouve]

There's got to be a cutoff somewhere. Everyone knew the cutoff and Brady willfully violated it.

I agree with that, I don't agree with the choice of sanction. And by the way warming a frozen ball has a very noticeable impact and the league did nothing.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

I'll take 16-0 just like last time we were caught cheating and were docked a 1st round draft pick..

 

[steve zizou]

They'd been doing it for a while. The colts game is just when they got caught.

Well we don't know whether it did or not, it's certainly possible that it made the ball easier to catch and grip, and definitely throw if we consider they weren't just doing it in the one game so the "they ran the ball" argument doesn't really matter.

It's not really the vital point though, is it? Whether your cheating pays off or not, you did it.

What proves that that've been doing it prior to Colts game?

Also science has since shown that the ball naturally deflates during the game. So if Brady goes for the legal minimum limit of 12.5, knowing that the ball is going to be under-inflated during the course of the game, how can that be considered as cheating? It's called using the rules to your advantage. It's up to the NFL to set rules that ensure that the ball pressure doesn't drop below 12.5psi AFTER a game.

 

[Eboue]

What proves that that've been doing it prior to Colts game?

Also science has since shown that the ball naturally deflates during the game. So if Brady goes for the legal minimum limit of 12.5, knowing that the ball is going to be under-inflated during the course of the game, how can that be considered as cheating? It's called using the rules to your advantage. It's up to the NFL to set rules that ensure that the ball pressure doesn't drop below 12.5psi AFTER a game.

All I can say is read the report. Both of these points were addressed within. There's all sorts of nerdy science stuff in there, to the point that I think the law firm that conducted the investigation was just doing every conceivable test because they bill by the hour.

 

[JPRouve]

What proves that that've been doing it prior to Colts game?

Also science has since shown that the ball naturally deflates during the game. So if Brady goes for the legal minimum limit of 12.5, knowing that the ball is going to be under-inflated during the course of the game, how can that be considered as cheating? It's called using the rules to your advantage. It's up to the NFL to set rules that ensure that the ball pressure doesn't drop below 12.5psi AFTER a game.

They apparently tampered the balls after the referees checked them, which is illegal.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

Someone call Johnnie Coghran coz the glove ain't fittin'!

 

[Rado_N]

What proves that that've been doing it prior to Colts game?

Also science has since shown that the ball naturally deflates during the game. So if Brady goes for the legal minimum limit of 12.5, knowing that the ball is going to be under-inflated during the course of the game, how can that be considered as cheating? It's called using the rules to your advantage. It's up to the NFL to set rules that ensure that the ball pressure doesn't drop below 12.5psi AFTER a game.

All I can say is read the report. Both of these points were addressed within. There's all sorts of nerdy science stuff in there, to the point that I think the law firm that conducted the investigation was just doing every conceivable test because they bill by the hour.

What Eboue said.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

They apparently tampered the balls after the referees checked them, which is illegal.

They deserve punishment for that but think it's wrong to punish Brady based on the texts & call, I think it sets a wrong precedent where you you are punishing someone even though he has not been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt

 

[Eboue]

They deserve punishment for that but think it's wrong to punish Brady based on the texts & call, I think it sets a wrong precedent where you you are punishing someone even though he has not been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt

Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal cases. Preponderance of evidence is the standard for civil cases. This is neither, the nfl has its own rules and their standard is "more likely than not", which was been achieved.

 

[Rado_N]

Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal cases. Preponderance of evidence is the standard for civil cases. This is neither, the nfl has its own rules and their standard is "more likely than not", which was been achieved.

Plus didn't the report say that to accept the alternative explanation would require accepting a simply unbelievable number of things were irrelevant coincidences?

 

[Eboue]

Plus didn't the report say that to accept the alternative explanation would require accepting a simply unbelievable number of things were irrelevant coincidences?

Implausible but yes.

 

[GloryHunter07]

They deserve punishment for that but think it's wrong to punish Brady based on the texts & call, I think it sets a wrong precedent where you you are punishing someone even though he has not been proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt

Cripes, how many people dont seem to understand this point. This is only the burden of proof for CRIMINAL cases. Its lower for less serious cases.

 

[Rado_N]

I wonder how this thread would have looked had it been Manning and the Broncos rather than Brady and the Pats.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

I wonder how this thread would have looked had it been Manning and the Broncos rather than Brady and the Pats.

Or if Man Utd were acussed of using under inflated footballs.

 

[JPRouve]

Or if Man Utd were acussed of using under inflated footballs.

Or Crystal Palace growing potatoes on their field.

 

[Earthquake]

I for one, blame Evra.

 

[Earthquake]

Or Crystal Palace growing potatoes on their field.

That was just their players, mate.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

Did I miss a controversy involving Crystal Palace and potatoes?

 

[Roman Bellic]

The only person who rates Johnny Football is Johnny Football.

Skip Bayless.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

Skip Bayless.

Oh yes. But doesn't Skip Bayless think everyone (except for Richard Sherman) is great?

 

[iSparky]

Statement from Tom Brady's agent, Don Yee:

“The discipline is ridiculous and has no legitimate basis. In my opinion, this outcome was pre-determined; there was no fairness in the Wells investigation whatsoever. There is no evidence that Tom directed footballs be set at pressures below the allowable limits. In fact, the evidence shows Tom clearly emphasized that footballs be set at pressures within the rules. Tom also cooperated with the investigation and answered every question presented to him.

The Wells Report presents significant evidence, however, that the NFL lacks standards or protocols with respect to its handling of footballs prior to games; this is not the fault of Tom or the Patriots. The report also presents significant evidence the NFL participated with the Colts in some type of pre-AFC Championship Game planning regarding the footballs. This fact may raise serious questions about the integrity of the games we view on Sundays.

We will appeal, and if the hearing officer is completely independent and neutral, I am very confident the Wells Report will be exposed as an incredibly frail exercise in fact-finding and logic.

The NFL has a well-documented history of making poor disciplinary decisions that often are overturned when truly independent and neutral judges or arbitrators preside, and a former federal judge has found the commissioner has abused his discretion in the past, so this outcome does not surprise me. Sadly, today’s decision diminishes the NFL as it tells its fans, players and coaches that the games on the field don’t count as much as the games played on Park Avenue.”

https://www.facebook.com/AdamSchefter/posts/954360321283276

 

[Anderson's Cat]

Its unfortunate that no one come's out of this very well. Firstly the patriots for letting themselves get in to this mess again and secondly the nfl, for allowing it to develop in to a farce like it has, especially when it comes to dishing out consistent and fair punishements.

 

[Roman Bellic]

They'd been doing it for a while. The colts game is just when they got caught.

Which basically means they've been eliminated from the playoffs whilst deflating balls,which leads me to ask this question - if they had a losing record would you still give a feck about the whole deflating balls issue?

 

[iSparky]

#NoBradyNoBanner is picking up steam on social media now too, lots of fans calling for the banner which is usually raised before game 1 after a SuperBowl win to be postponed until Brady can join the team to celebrate it with them.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/05/...ht/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Edit - Personally I am not keen on this idea, he is just one man of 53 on the roster of the team that won the superbowl last year, I think they should raise it prior to game 1 regardless.

 

[Eboue]

Which basically means they've been eliminated from the playoffs whilst deflating balls,which leads me to ask this question - if they had a losing record would you still give a feck about the whole deflating balls issue?

Yes, obviously.

 

[Roman Bellic]

Oh yes. But doesn't Skip Bayless think everyone (except for Richard Sherman) is great?

He doesn't rate Aaron Rodgers, other than that you're probably right.

 

[Anderson's Cat]

He wouldn't give two hoots if it wasn't the patriots, but he's enjoying his dip in the cosy warm waters of schadenfreude.

 

[Roman Bellic]

Brady not showing up to the white house was pretty suspicious though.