Next permanent manager | Poll updated

[sullydnl]

Im curious what has Ten Hag proven over Poch outside of winning a Dutch league that even average managers have done?

I don't think either is average but I don't see why Ten Hag has so much traction and Poch has so much resistance.

Because people prefer the way Ten Hag's team plays to the way Poch's teams play.

I suspect there's also a bit of familiarity breeding contempt though. People have been more exposed to Poch, have seen more of his faults and therefor have more reason to have doubts about him. Whereas insofar as they know Ten Hag they only know him from getting Ajax to a semi-final, winning Dutch leagues and walking this year's group stages while playing excellent football. All managers have faults but I doubt many could say what ETH's are, simply because they know less about him. The most critical thing I've seen said is that he doesn't speak very well in Dutch, which isn't exactly an issue for us.

 

[Chip]

Because people prefer the way Ten Hag's team plays to the way Poch's teams play.

I suspect there's also a bit of familiarity breeding contempt though. People have been more exposed to Poch, have seen more of his faults and therefor have more reason to have doubts about him. Whereas insofar as they know Ten Hag they only know him from getting Ajax to a semi-final, winning Dutch leagues and walking this year's group stages while playing excellent football. All managers have faults but I doubt many could say what ETH's are, simply because they know less about him. The most critical thing I've seen said is that he doesn't speak very well in Dutch, which isn't exactly an issue for us.

Meaning he's not very well articulated? I mean he's a native speaker, isn't he?

 

[VP89]

Because people prefer the way Ten Hag's team plays to the way Poch's teams play.

I suspect there's also a bit of familiarity breeding contempt though. People have been more exposed to Poch, have seen more of his faults and therefor have more reason to have doubts about him. Whereas insofar as they know Ten Hag they only know him from getting Ajax to a semi-final, winning Dutch leagues and walking this year's group stages while playing excellent football. All managers have faults but I doubt many could say what ETH's are, simply because they know less about him. The most critical thing I've seen said is that he doesn't speak very well in Dutch, which isn't exactly an issue for us.

Poch got Spurs playing some very good football. And ETH is in a position to play well with Ajax and that's great. But so did the likes of Koeman, it doesnt mean anything.

The only reason people love Ten Hag is because the 2017 season of the champions league. But then they should be consistent and consider Poch run to the CL final. Of course they would not do this, because you know, Poch didn't take Spurs all the way. Even though he did improve them by two or three levels.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Yeah, what he did at Tottenham was seriously impressive

 

[Isotope]

If his ceiling is to take fecking Tottenham Hotspurs to the Champions League final losing to one of the best performing first XIs in Premier League history then sure, thats his ceiling. I would take that all day long at United because even Conte isnt taking them that far.

Did he do it constantly though? No, it's not. That's the key. Just look at Spurs during his time 2014-2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._in_European_football

 

[Dominos]

Poch is a known entity with very good European credibility but ended his Spurs term with not so encouraging position. It is more likely his ceiling. So if people satisfy with his SPurs achievement, he's the man.

I'm not too enthused by Poch but it's harsh. Just because he only finished 2nd with 86 points at Spurs and only finished runner up in the champions league, that's his ceiling and he could never win a league title or champions league with another club? Not even a possibility he could with the £450m investment that Ole had been given?

Are we comfortable saying any manager who has not currently won a league title or champions league has reached their ceiling... Or does that only apply to Poch?

 

[EireLemon]

Does anyone know what Poch said about us on MNF that time he was on?

 

[Isotope]

I'm not too enthused by Poch but it's harsh. Just because he only finished 2nd with 86 points at Spurs and only finished runner up in the champions league, that's his ceiling and he could never win a league title or champions league with another club? Not even a possibility he could with the £450m investment that Ole had been given?

Are we comfortable saying any manager who has not currently won a league title or champions league has reached their ceiling... Or does that only apply to Poch?

I said it's more likely. He's never won any single trophy in 5 years there, and he left Spurs with dodgy purchase when given big money. But it's a moot point as only one way to prove it.

I said on the rest of post that you cut, he's a very good manager. I just don't think he has what it takes to overcome Pep and Klopp.

 

[sullydnl]

Meaning he's not very well articulated? I mean he's a native speaker, isn't he?

From what I gather he has some sort of regional rural accent (I've seen it compared to a Dutch version of Welsh) and possibly isn't good at stringing sentences together without a lot of "ehhhs" or something, so he sounds a bit off if you're a native speaker.

None of which matters to us, because when he speaks English he just sounds like a standard Dutch guy speaking the slightly stilted English of a foreign football manager. The nuances of Dutch accents are rather lost on us, I suspect.

 

[BlueHaze]

I said it's more likely. He's never won any single trophy, and he left Spurs with dodgy purchase when given big money. But it's a moot point as only one way to prove it.

I think he won the french cup last season or am I wrong?

 

[Leftback99]

I think Poch is a safer bet than Ten Hag. It's all good in theory that we could end up playing like Ajax currently do but in reality it won't be that simple for a manager coming to the PL for the first time.

 

[Sviken]

The thing with Poch is that he was very impressive at Spurs, there's no doubt about that To expect a manager to win trophies with Spurs and Levy is a tough task to ask. You can compete for 2 things with Spurs - the FA cup and the Carabao, both are cup competitions and in that they are unpredictable by design. To expect a title or a CL with Spurs is very unreasonable. But all of that was years ago, recently his short stint at PSG has been very unimpressive. Granted, PSG are a circus akin to us, but that also doesn't spell well for Poch doing well here either. He would have been a magnificient option 3 years ago, as originally planned. Hell, a year ago he would have been great. But now to wait an entire season for him is... uninspiring, to say the least.

 

[VP89]

Did he do it constantly though? No, it's not. That's the key. Just look at Spurs during his time 2014-2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._in_European_football

Eh? Ok lets look into some actual established records here

With Southampton he took them to their highest position of the PL (8th) in their first full season.

At spurs it was year one of bedding in (5th finish, one cup final). Then he finished 3rd in his second season, which was their highest ever in PL since 1990. Season 3 he eventually finished in second place with 86 points, their highest-ever tally since the English League began.

Season 4 he finished 4th and got to a CL final. Season 5 he was sacked mid season.

^I mean, wake up and smell the coffee here. You think Klopp didnt choke with Dortmund post year 3? Tuchel didnt implode with owners post year 2/3? Peak Mourinho didn't have issues post year 3? Ancelotti with Chelsea or Real?

You think Ten Hag has been a smooth ride in Ajax all the way in Holland let alone here in England? Hes not even proven here. And he hasnt always been formidable for Ajax too.

 

[izec]

Ten Hag > Zidane > Poch >>>>>>>>> Rodgers

 

[Hugh Jass]

Pochettino's stint with PSG is just worrying and I don't think his Tottenham side played amazing eye-pleasing football like most think.

When Ten Hag and him faced off in the CL, Ten Hag's Ajax looked clearly superior on the ball/off the ball and Pochettino had to resort to bringing on Llorente to bypass their press. They were lucky they progressed through. I thought they got battered in both legs.

Yea i said that a while ago. Ten Hags Ajax looked unreal. Spurs had to long towards the end and got lucky.

 

[Isotope]

Eh? Ok lets look into some actual established records here

With Southampton he took them to their highest position of the PL (8th) in their first full season.

At spurs it was year one of bedding in (5th finish, one cup final). Then he finished 3rd in his second season, which was their highest ever in PL since 1990. Season 3 he eventually finished in second place with 86 points, their highest-ever tally since the English League began.

Season 4 he finished 4th and got to a CL final. Season 5 he was sacked mid season.

^I mean, wake up and smell the coffee here. You think Klopp didnt choke with Dortmund post year 3? Tuchel didnt implode with owners post year 2/3? You think Ten Hag has been a smooth ride in Ajax all the way in Holland let alone here in England?

I just don't think he has what it takes to overcome Pep and Klopp. Now there's COnte, and mega-rich Newcastle on the loom. So why bother with a "very good" manager? If you think he could overcome all those based on his career so far, fair do man.

 

[::sonny::]

Another big red heart incoming

 

[Adnan]

This makes sense to me. Pochettino is probably anticipating the sack at PSG in the near future and he sees the opportunity at United as one that may not come up again so is willing to jump ship now. But it also seems that all the latest leaks are coming from Poch rather than United and the below tweet is indicating that United are not sold on Poch.

 

[VP89]

I just don't think he has what it takes to overcome Pep and Klopp. So why bother? If you think so based on his career so far, fair do man.

That's fine. So your gut tells you ETH is the guy and not Poch. I cant really argue with that.

 

[Dominos]

I think Poch is a safer bet than Ten Hag. It's all good in theory that we could end up playing like Ajax currently do but in reality it won't be that simple for a manager coming to the PL for the first time.

You could argue the risks are higher with Ten Hag but the rewards are also higher.

If one of them was more likely to come in and be a complete disaster, maybe that's more likely to be Ten Hag.

At the same time if one of them was to come in and build an elite team with an elite style, maybe that's also more likely to be Ten Hag.

I'm happy to take the risk, I want to see us play like an elite team.

 

[Sviken]

Another big red heart incoming

Wouldn't mind if he comes now. But to wait for him an entire season would be ridiculous. Rather go with Ten Hag. Still, I would much prefer Poch to fecking Rodgers, if those are our only two picks.

 

[stw2022]

I think we're going to wait and see how it plays out at Ajax and PSG. Looks like whoever is having the most impressive season at the point where we make our decision, gets it.

 

[Isotope]

That's fine. So your gut tells you ETH is the guy and not Poch. I cant really argue with that.

Yeh, think = guts. Can't argue with that. Everything is guts/think until one of them managing United. Or scientifically, both need to manage United then compare their achievement. DOn't you think so??

 

[::sonny::]

Wouldn't mind if he comes now. But to wait for him an entire season would be ridiculous. Rather go with Ten Hag. Still, I would much prefer Poch to fecking Rodgers, if those are our only two picks.

They say he can leave now

 

[Dominos]

Pochettino's stint with PSG is just worrying and I don't think his Tottenham side played amazing eye-pleasing football like most think.

When Ten Hag and him faced off in the CL, Ten Hag's Ajax looked clearly superior on the ball/off the ball and Pochettino had to resort to bringing on Llorente to bypass their press. They were lucky they progressed through. I thought they got battered in both legs.

Yea i said that a while ago. Ten Hags Ajax looked unreal. Spurs had to long towards the end and got lucky.

This myth has been busted a while ago to be fair, see the stats below. Admittedly my memory was also that Ajax edged the tie on balance of play, however Spurs were certainly not battered.





1st leg: Spurs 51 % 49 Ajax
2nd leg: Ajax 40 % 60 Spurs

 

[Barnslig]

It became obvious we needed a change, but hasn't Ole said on multiple occasions he's not the one leading training? He has coaches for that, so by keeping the coaches the only thing that's realistically going to change is perhaps selections? I can't see much changing in terms of strategies and coaching by just removing Ole.

Despicable thinking they again made a hasty decision, especially when we had just come off two horrible results and went through the international break. I think as many have said our problems are higher up and thats not going to change in the foreseeable.

We seem to have missed out on the elite manager merry-go-round and I struggle to see a clear cut WC manager available to push through and be successful when all the trouble from above will persist.

 

[Isotope]

I think he won the french cup last season or am I wrong?

Was talking of his time in PL. But i could be wrong also.

 

[shaky]

Are people serious about Poch? Sacked by Spurs. Probably sacked by PSG as well if he comes to Utd. He can build teams but he's absolutely no track record of winning things despite managing some fantastic players in his time. Why would things be any different here? Folk seem to be putting a lot of stock in one flukey CL final appearance and happily ignoring ever other failed trophy attempt he's been involved in.

 

[BlueHaze]

Was talking of his time in PL. But i could be wrong also.

Nah, in England he won nothing.

 

[LordSpud]

Nah, in England he won nothing.

No-one does at Spurs though to be fair...

 

[minoo-utd]

Who will decide this lads? Ed and John or who exactly will be responsible for this decision 100%? Surely SAF will have a word too!

 

[BlueHaze]

Who will decide this lads? Ed and John or who exactly will be responsible for this decision 100%? Surely SAF will have a word too!

Ironically enough it seems the guy who "retired"

 

[Nicoseth]

Please do not reply to my posts peasant. You have little or nothing of value to share.

Humblest apologies, master.

 

[Cloud7]

When he left Spurs, Poch was my first choice for United manager. I believed then that we should have given it to him over Ole. Admittedly, his time at PSG hasn't left me feeling overly inspired, but then neither did Tuchel's and he's been great for Chelsea.

Ten Haag is my first choice on the basis of the brand of football he gets Ajax playing, but if we were to get Poch I wouldn't be too disappointed either.

 

[Sviken]

They say he can leave now

Yeah, but I don't trust that all too much. Would be surprising with CL still on to say the least. Then again given what Tuchel said about PSG, he might want to feck off from there as fast as possible, but still, as I said, it would surprise me.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I said it's more likely. He's never won any single trophy in 5 years there, and he left Spurs with dodgy purchase when given big money. But it's a moot point as only one way to prove it.

I said on the rest of post that you cut, he's a very good manager. I just don't think he has what it takes to overcome Pep and Klopp.

His last summer signings were Ndombele for 55m, Lo Celso on loan with an option to buy (Poch didn't trigger the option to buy), and Sessegnon for 23m. I wouldn't call 78m as big money considering that the big club can provide him more.

He is about to win Ligue 1 this season if he stays end of the season (Tuchel won it with PSG), he reached semi final CL last season (Tuchel lost to Ole in his first PSG season CL), he reached final CL with Spurs (Tuchel reached final CL in his 2nd season CL). There are some signs of similarities between him and Tuchel in their career, did you also think Tuchel doesn't have what it takes to overcome Pep and Klopp when Chelsea appointed him on the first day?

 

[croadyman]

I would prefer Ten Hag over Poch.

I would prefer Poch over Rodgers or bloody Lopetegui.

Lopetugui

Yeah Ten Hag in the summer with an interim until the end of the season would be ideal, however he would need players to fit his system which will put off our owners

 

[croadyman]

Any chance we announce our next permanent manager in advance? A sort of “we are delighted to announce … as our manager. He will take the role at the end of the season” statement . Or are we going to spend the first few weeks of the summer making all our moves?

Yeah was hoping for exactly the same thing, much like that lot across the city did with Pep

 

[Orc]

Perhaps the most memorable characteristic of Poch’s Spurs team was their relentless high press and work rate. They had that cliche “defend from the front” sort of philosophy.

How exactly does that work with a 36+ year old CR7 and several other attacking players who don’t put a shift in?

 

[kirk buttercup]

When he left Spurs, Poch was my first choice for United manager. I believed then that we should have given it to him over Ole. Admittedly, his time at PSG hasn't left me feeling overly inspired, but then neither did Tuchel's and he's been great for Chelsea.

Ten Haag is my first choice on the basis of the brand of football he gets Ajax playing, but if we were to get Poch I wouldn't be too disappointed either.

I agree That Ten Haag is a really great and progressive choice would love to see what he would do. My second Choice would probably be Poch would love to see what he could do with our Squad . Third choice for me would be Zidane then Rose. Really don't want Rodgers