If Rebecca Long-Bailey gets the gig, it won't be centrism on offer; and they won't get elected - especially with Burgon as deputy.
Next Labour leader - Starmer and Rayner win
- Thread starter Kaos
- Start date
If Rebecca Long-Bailey gets the gig, it won't be centrism on offer; and they won't get elected - especially with Burgon as deputy.
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I wonder how many people are considering voting for him for a laugh... And if somehow it could be enough
In the interests of some balance to the "JUST DO CENTRISM" shouts, a good Twitter thread from the weekend which is a long list of exactly the type of centrist policy that was harmful and shouldn't be repeated.
I'm all for a compromise position within the party but for that to be successful it's important that new Labours mistakes aren't glossed over and repeated.
I'm all for a compromise position within the party but for that to be successful it's important that new Labours mistakes aren't glossed over and repeated.
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As we're now into the voting proper, we should get a poll up in here. No way to keep it to Labour members only but still worth a look I think.
Murray and the Dr? Murray seems sensible enough whenever I’ve seen him talk.
I dont think we need to worry about there being too few people bad mouthing New Labour just at the moment.
It would be hilarious if Long-Bailey was elected.
A lot of these policies are good, popular policies (obviously framed in the worst possible way). If Labour had adopted a similar stance in the last election they probably would've won.
Indeed... Boris and Cummings might actually piss themselves laughing
with Richard Burgon as deputy
If Starmer wins it will basically just be Miliband 2.0, which sort makes a vote for him at bit useless tbh. Even if he wants the policy set of 2017 & 2019(Which is a big if in my view), all them will be watered down by the right of the PLP, who Starmer will be desperate to keep on side but this will in turn kill off the activist base and the young vote(And never be right wing enough for the red wall voters). Plus add in the fact the right wing press will treat him just like any other labour leader who isn't the godfather to one of Murdoch kids and that he is rather dull, it just seems like a huge waste of time, that in five years Labour will end up getting less votes than they did in 2019 and people will still be arguing about wither the party platform was too left wing(Maybe leaving the country isn't such a bad idea after all 
)
At least with RLB or Nandy there's something of a ''plan''.
Still none of this is worth leaving the country over, the material conditions that gave rise to Corbyn and his set of left politics aren't suddenly going to disappear(And the tories are certainly not going to address them). The Gramsci quote basically works well for our current politics - ''The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.'' Just how Boris is quite clearly a morbid symptoms of a dying ideology(Thatcherism), a Starmer win would be something similar. A morbid symptom of trying to unite and bring together a increasing unequal society.
Yes we all live in a society
)At least with RLB or Nandy there's something of a ''plan''.
Still none of this is worth leaving the country over, the material conditions that gave rise to Corbyn and his set of left politics aren't suddenly going to disappear(And the tories are certainly not going to address them). The Gramsci quote basically works well for our current politics - ''The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.'' Just how Boris is quite clearly a morbid symptoms of a dying ideology(Thatcherism), a Starmer win would be something similar. A morbid symptom of trying to unite and bring together a increasing unequal society.
Yes we all live in a society
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If Starmer wins it will basically just be Miliband 2.0, which sort makes a vote for him at bit useless tbh. Even if he wants the policy set of 2017 & 2019(Which is a big if in my view), all them will be watered down by the right of the PLP, who Starmer will be desperate to keep on side but this will in turn kill off the activist base and the young vote(And never be right wing enough for the red wall voters). Plus add in the fact the right wing press will treat him just like any other labour leader who isn't the godfather to one of Murdoch kids and that he is rather dull, it just seems like a huge waste of time, that in five years Labour will end up getting less votes than they did in 2019 and people will still be arguing about wither the party platform was too left wing(Maybe leaving the country isn't such a bad idea after all
At least with RLB or Nandy there's something of a ''plan''.
Still none of this is worth leaving the country over, the material conditions that gave rise to Corbyn and his set of left politics aren't suddenly going to disappear(And the tories are certainly not going to address them). The Gramsci quote basically works well for our current politics - ''The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.'' Just how Boris is quite clearly a morbid symptoms of a dying ideology(Thatcherism), a Starmer win would be something similar. A morbid symptom of trying to unite and bring together a increasing unequal society.
Yes we all live in a society
More grandiose political analysis from man proven wrong about everything all the time. How big a defeat to your thinking would it take for you to be humbled into reconsidering the worth of posting as definitively as often?
It could be that Labour's well is so poisoned by Corbyn it is hopeless but given you championed the guy and derided those who questioned your wisdom in doing so you now sound as unbalanced as a die hard Hillary Clinton supporter after Trump was elected. Living in a society doesn't mean you understand it. If all your predictions about it turn out to be wrong there is a clue there.
The quote doesn't work either as your whole diatribe of the last five years is summed up best as the old isn't dying as you would prefer it to.
These weren’t "mistakes". These were examples of triangulation and it’s how New Labour won 3 elections.
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A good example of the issue i was highlighting. Absolutely no introspection here on the issues New Labour had, no everything was hunky dory because new labour won
If that's the level of substance behind the call to centrism then it doesn't bode well for either wing of the party.
And no these weren't triangulation at all, I'm not sure you read many or any if you've come to that conclusion.
Oh come on that's a bit unfair, I've consistently said you are a massive bell end on here and have yet to be proven wrong. At least give me some credit for that.
Yeah I don't think you quite get it but still nice try. Anyway have you got anymore ''triggernometry'' youtube videos to post ?
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Now you see, you miss the point. First, the lack of introspection is on your side not mine. The fact that NL won is the starting point - whether you like them or not these were winning policies. You need to understand why but you don’t seem to want to think about it. I’m not saying current labour needs to replicate the policies because they were tuned to specific circumstances but they might need to replicate the insight.A good example of the issue i was highlighting. Absolutely no introspection here on the issues New Labour had, no everything was hunky dory because new labour won
If that's the level of substance behind the call to centrism then it doesn't bode well for either wing of the party.
And no these weren't triangulation at all, I'm not sure you read many or any if you've come to that conclusion.
Second, these were indeed the result of triangulation when applied to the Party’s positioning as a whole. Again today is different and specific policies will be different but it seems to me Labour need a way to engage with right wing voters judging by how many more of them there seems to be than left wing voters.
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Mistreatment of civil servants is a serious problem and should be investigated. Unless that mistreatment leads to them killing themselves in which case please rejoin the party.
He’s actually on a massive wind up isn’t he?
What's everyones take? I've been on a blackout for nearly two months thanks to that orange turd. All I muster so far is that RLB is the continuity loser candidate and Starmer just vanilla. Who's get a fresh perpsective on candidates?
You'll definitely want to read this then:
Tony Benn University - sounds like code for Re-education Gulags for us pesky Blairites
Pretty much all you can say really. It's depressing and drawn out, there's no inspiration at all.
I'm still with Nandy, and I can't see it changing. If only because she has a bit more spark than Starmer (then so does a dead aaa battery) and it would be great to have a female leader. Other than that, there's really nothing interesting at all, it's all so typical Labour mostly in fighting and occasional "but the Tories!" point.
How hilarious. Spelling right as "write" is satirical genius.
What do we think of Starmer's Labour Party College? Similar idea, less reflexively mocked, I suppose because it's Starmer and not Burgon and mocking Burgon seems to be a weird hobby for those with more time than sense.
More like Starmer doesn't remind everyone of those placard waving SWP bores we all remember from Uni.
I been reading our CLP Facebook Group today. The whole party is very divided to the point you're either with us or against us. We did manage to nominate Starmer no thanks to myself though but at least it shows we have people with sense.
I could never support Nandy as she is the type of person that looks only after number one. She is very responsible for the Brexit mess we are in by going against the whip and not backing things like customs union free market etc.
Maybe because Burgeon is the incarnation of Benny Hill in politics.
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Well I, for one, am shocked...
Anyone voted yet?
For leader I've gone
1. Nandy
2. Long Bailey
3. Starmer
Was planning on Starmer in 2nd but there's something about him I just can't take to.
In the deputy vote I've gone
1. Rayner
2. A N Other
3. S O Else
4. Never heard of em
5. Burgon
For leader I've gone
1. Nandy
2. Long Bailey
3. Starmer
Was planning on Starmer in 2nd but there's something about him I just can't take to.
In the deputy vote I've gone
1. Rayner
2. A N Other
3. S O Else
4. Never heard of em
5. Burgon
Would be genuinely funny if this ends up with Starmer as leader and Burgon as deputy, with Burgon constantly undermining him.
Richard Burgon is definitely backed by Iannucci, Morris or Baren-Cohen
I'm deeply disappointed that Momentum threw their weight behind Burgon over Rayner, it's like he's intentionally running a shit campaign that won't win anyone over.