Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions

Edgar Allan Pillow said:
It'd not be fair to the teams if it's just based on your or anto's vote. If you allow them to draft, you need to permit them a match.
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As a compromise, we can rank the teams accordingly, and the 8 lowest-ranked teams can have that quick matchup in a qualification round to determine who the 16 managers will be to participate in the proper tournament. The ranking can be done based on seeding, squad quality, draft master's preference, etc.

@The Stain
 
Going to eat now and waiting on Anto to iron out stuff. Will post OP (which will no doubt be incomplete initially) and Round 1 later once that's done and set a generous deadline for the first pick. Leaning towards just going with 16 teams at the moment.

Let the wailing commence.
 
I’ve been an advocate of voting cards (or something similar) for a long time, so I’m all for that. The match format needs more experimentation and tweaking - it’s too stale at the moment. So, cut down on the number of “traditional” matches.

Have the managers draft a squad, say 12 players (fair enough to have an extra man even though you aren’t actually up against an opponent directly). Then everyone prepares an OP style writeup and a formation pic, all of which is posted in a separate thread - and people vote. You can easily do a poll with 16 options and allow multiple votes.

You can also, for that matter, abandon the 16 manager format - and allow, say, 20 managers to play. Can’t be too many, though, in a sheep draft - that would just be a bit pointless. But you certainly don’t have to insist on 16.
 
The guys who "missed out" will get to play. We'll just have everyone send in a voting card at the end to determine the 16.
antohan said:
I was thinking all managers rank teams 1-20+ and after adding scores the top 16 go into the draw.
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IE this.
 
To make it more compact and easier to overview for the voters, you can split the voting up in rounds.

20 managers play.

Round 1: 7 teams to vote for
Round 2: 7 teams
Round 3: 6 teams

Each round being, essentially, a 24hr poll.

After round/day 3 you count up the votes and the 4 teams with most votes get drawn against each other in traditional semi-finals.

Would speed up the knockout/match stage immensely.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
To make it more compact and easier to overview for the voters, you can split the voting up in rounds.

20 managers play.

Round 1: 7 teams to vote for
Round 2: 7 teams
Round 3: 6 teams

Each round being, essentially, a 24hr poll.

After round/day 3 you count up the votes and the 4 teams with most votes get drawn against each other in traditional semi-finals.

Would speed up the knockout/match stage immensely.
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I like.
 
The Stain said:
I like.
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That particular format would, of course, involve a certain element of random luck - as you could in theory end up with five shite teams in round 1 and five great ones in round 3, but there’s already a degree of luck involved.

If you want to eliminate the luck part, you need to do just one poll (with 16-20+ options), but I do think it may be a bit overwhelming for the voters to consider that many teams in one go.
 
Just checked it now and you can easily create a poll that would work well for this idea:

Q: Which team is the best?

A: ...
B: ...

...and so forth.

Voters may vote for a maximum of X teams, three, say - or five, whatever works best for the purpose: if you do multiple rounds with less teams to vote for per round, you may limit it to just one or two teams.
 
The Stain said:
Going to eat now and waiting on Anto to iron out stuff. Will post OP (which will no doubt be incomplete initially) and Round 1 later once that's done and set a generous deadline for the first pick. Leaning towards just going with 16 teams at the moment.

Let the wailing commence.
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Is anto helping you? Feck, that sounds interesting
 
1. P-Nut0712
2. Moby
3. Enigma_87
4. Raees
5. Chesterlestreet
6. Downcast
7. Skizzo/Annah
8. Joga Bontio
9. Sjor
10. Invictus
11. Gio
12. harms
13. EAP
14. DavidG
15. Tuppet
16. Oneniltothearse
17. Mazhar
18. Boris
19. Cal?

One more is fine.
 
And by the looks of it.. Won't be a conventional sheep draft.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
To make it more compact and easier to overview for the voters, you can split the voting up in rounds.

20 managers play.

Round 1: 7 teams to vote for
Round 2: 7 teams
Round 3: 6 teams

Each round being, essentially, a 24hr poll.

After round/day 3 you count up the votes and the 4 teams with most votes get drawn against each other in traditional semi-finals.

Would speed up the knockout/match stage immensely.
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I like, but not cutting down so aggressively. With sheep drafts you could quickly lose people's interest if they start falling way behind of a top 4, while a top 8 (let alone 16) gives you a fighting chance and more shots at reinforcing to make up lost ground.

i.e. I wouldn't cut down aggressively, just look for more efficient ways of playing out early match rounds.
 
antohan said:
I like, but not cutting down so aggressively. With sheep drafts you could quickly lose people's interest if they start falling way behind of a top 4, while a top 8 (let alone 16) gives you a fighting chance and more shots at reinforcing to make up lost ground.
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Fair point - the exact nature of the draft has to be taken into consideration.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I’ve been an advocate of voting cards (or something similar) for a long time, so I’m all for that. The match format needs more experimentation and tweaking - it’s too stale at the moment. So, cut down on the number of “traditional” matches.
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antohan said:
I like, but not cutting down so aggressively. With sheep drafts you could quickly lose people's interest if they start falling way behind of a top 4, while a top 8 (let alone 16) gives you a fighting chance and more shots at reinforcing to make up lost ground.

i.e. I wouldn't cut down aggressively, just look for more efficient ways of playing out early match rounds.
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I'm happy with these suggestions.
 
I would like to run a draft if I may and nobody is waiting to run one already. It is a bit different but I hope it could be fun and interesting nevertheless if enough people want to participate.

NT ERA DRAFT(Post-war~ Pre 1970~ depends on interested managers and preferred sides):

The idea will be to make the best and highest rated sides in history ineligible while their historical rivals will get some time in the spotlight. You choose your favorite of the remaining sides and you have all the players available at your disposal, there won't be a draft stage so it would be a fast "draft" about great stories. The main idea would be to share some great knowledge about the sides and possibly try to rate them together the best we can, especially teams who played in the same era.

At the same time a casual draft tournament would take place where the goal is to establish your side against, first others from the same era, and then later against the best of other eras in knock-out matches. I.e

Uruguay 1950-56 VS Paraguay 1947-53 as a first match.

Just an idea for now that hasn't been refined at all yet. I'd love to see and hear Anto talk about some Uruguay side, Balu with a German and so forth with the draft just being there for silly entertainment.

@harms @Joga Bonito @Balu @antohan @everybody
 
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I got the inspiration from an old post I found by @Invictus about Swedish 48-58 team and when reading up on it and finding some great stories about the other sides of the era as well. The Czechs, Yugoslavia, Austria etc who all go a bit under the radar for me at least.
 
Annahnomoss said:
The idea will be to make the best and highest rated sides in history ineligible while their historical rivals will get some time in the spotlight.
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Interesting concept and I'd love to know more about certain sides such as Germany 1954, Soviet sides of the fifties-sixties and the Yugoslav side from the same era. Would be a research intensive draft but extremely informative.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
How will that work as a draft? Anto can just make a post on a side explaining it.
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That is half the point. We've seen so many great posts in these drafts ove the years but they end up missing or being hard to find and here I'd like to have a link to the write-up of the side in the OP and a summary as well such as the ratings.

I.e OP:

Germany 1950-54(Link to Balus write up)
Uruguay 1950-58(Link to Anto's write up)

I may even make a thread for each of the teams write up to organize it. Basically I'd love to find all those great posts but it is nearly impossible.
 
Annahnomoss said:
That is half the point. We've seen so many great posts in these drafts ove the years but they end up missing or being hard to find and here I'd like to have a link to the write-up of the side in the OP and a summary as well such as the ratings.

I.e OP:

Germany 1950-54(Link to Balus write up)
Uruguay 1950-58(Link to Anto's write up)

I may even make a thread for each of the teams write up to organize it. Basically I'd love to find all those great posts but it is nearly impossible.
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Wouldn't it be better being done as a thread? Make it clear in the OP that it is a thread for big write ups on people's favourite teams. Could even open it up to any erased and let people write about whoever they want. After the thread has been up for a week or 2 add a poll to see which teams get rated the highest.
 
Downcast said:
@Annahnomoss

What is the primary focus? To speak about the greatest teams? the greatest games? the forgotten teams? era restrictions?

Do you want posts like those below?


Reserves Draft | Downcast 6-7 Tuppet

Reserves Draft | Downcast 6-7 Tuppet


France 1958 seems to be an interesting team: Kopa, Fontaine...
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The idea was the greatest sides, but that also includes the great matches of that era as well. The era restriction will be based mainly on how the team was shaped, who were the stars and so forth. Brazil of '58 changed drastically compared to 1950, and 1954 was more aching to 1958 than the 1950 side.

France 195X-'58 would be allowed and a great choice!
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Wouldn't it be better being done as a thread? Make it clear in the OP that it is a thread for big write ups on people's favourite teams. Could even open it up to any erased and let people write about whoever they want. After the thread has been up for a week or 2 add a poll to see which teams get rated the highest.
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It depends on the interest it gets. I know most people have already made some great posts before and may not want to spend the time to repeat it, and it needs a decent amount of interest to make it a good thread and a draft would help with that. I think it would make a great draft though as people will have their personal favorites as their sides and @Downcast would love to see his French side battle it out against Germany of '54 etc.
 
@Annahnomoss think there is already a thread about the greatest sides in football history, maybe just encourage people to post more there because its not really playable in draft mode unless you give one team per 2 managers but then you lose the main point and you dont get the best teams.
 
Annahnomoss said:
I may even make a thread for each of the teams write up to organize it. Basically I'd love to find all those great posts but it is nearly impossible.
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I’be been thinking for a while now to go through draft threads and copy/paste longer write-ups, quotes and anecdotes (plus links to footage where the latter is still up and running) - and then make a special, dedicated thread for such posts (where others can contribute whatever they like, of course).

A research resource thread, so to speak.

But you’re quite right - it’s not easy to find what you’re looking for, and it’s time consuming.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
@Annahnomoss think there is already a thread about the greatest sides in football history, maybe just encourage people to post more there because its not really playable in draft mode unless you give one team per 2 managers but then you lose the main point and you dont get the best teams.
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Yeah this is how I see it. I get the point of it but it's not really a draft as it's each teams perfect set up not a team setting up against another.

I'd love to read some of the posts on it and the way the teams set up tactically etc but can't see it working as a draft.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I’be been thinking for a while now to go through draft threads and copy/paste longer write-ups, quotes and anecdotes (plus links to footage where the latter is still up and running) - and then make a special, dedicated thread for such posts (where others can contribute whatever they like, of course).

A research resource thread, so to speak.

But you’re quite right - it’s not easy to find what you’re looking for, and it’s time consuming.
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That is basically my idea too, but it is time consuming if not an eternal job to do that unless it is a group effort. Making a draft of it could make people repost(and add) stuff in case it catches the interest which would be easier.
 
Annahnomoss said:
Making a draft of it could make people repost(and add) stuff in case it catches the interest which would be easier.
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Well, the two aren't mutually exclusive - could do both. If you do the draft, that could be a good starting point for the other thing.

I'd like such a resource thread to be mainly about gathering sheer info - not so much about discussion, etc.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
@Annahnomoss think there is already a thread about the greatest sides in football history, maybe just encourage people to post more there because its not really playable in draft mode unless you give one team per 2 managers but then you lose the main point and you dont get the best teams.
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P-Nut0712 said:
Yeah this is how I see it. I get the point of it but it's not really a draft as it's each teams perfect set up not a team setting up against another.

I'd love to read some of the posts on it and the way the teams set up tactically etc but can't see it working as a draft.
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For the informational write-up you just retell the story, while the draft is a draft and you don't have to follow any guidelines from reality. An example would be that just because Passarella banned Redondo from playing doesn't mean you have to as well. The draft would let you include a Grenoli even if in reality that wasn't the case. Also you may want to pick a year for your raft side that isn't necessarily a World Cup year as a great player was still in his peak in '51 but not in '54. You can make an England '57 team with Duncan etc etc, options are endless. Injured players who missed the World Cup would be eligible.

We're not picking the perfect sides, so maybe with hindsight in hand you'd replace a player or the tactics.
 
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Chesterlestreet said:
Well, the two aren't mutually exclusive - could do both. If you do the draft, that could be a good starting point for the other thing.

I'd like such a resource thread to be mainly about gathering sheer info - not so much about discussion, etc.
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I see what you mean. It would give something like:

Name of the Thread: 'FRANCE TEAM ERA'
Threadmark 1: France 1958
Threadmark 2: France Trauma 1993
Threadmark 3: Golden Age 1995-2000
Threadmark 5: Surprise revival 2006
....

And then, you duplicate 'HUNGARY TEAM ERA' ....

When you search the thread, just write 'team era'.

The manager creates his OWN thread and animates the story. I don't know if I'm clear. I could create France thread :wenger:
 
Annahnomoss said:
For the informational write-up you just retell the story, while the draft is a draft and you don't have to follow any guidelines from reality. An example would be that just because Passarella banned Redondo from playing doesn't mean you have to as well. The draft would let you include a Grenoli even if in reality that wasn't the case. Also you may want to pick a year for your draft side that isn't necessarily a World Cup year as a great player was still in his peak in '51 but not in '54. You can make an England '57 team with Duncan etc etc, options are endless.
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Yeah I get all that I suppose it would work but I actually think there would be more interest in the write ups than the draft side of it.

The fun in a regular draft is getting the players you want. That would be taken out in this idea and would just be left with the games which is the part most people don't really enjoy.
 
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