Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions

If everything is finalised, how about firing up the thread and getting the sign ups and other stuff sorted till we wait for the other final?

That's gonna be such an all star game it's not even interesting anymore.
 
RedTiger said:
How about an alphabet Draft? We all draft in a snake format but the players you pick must be in alphabetical order. Example, my first pick is Charlie Adams, my next pick is Kevin Doyle, my 3rd pick HAS TO BE WITH A LETTER AFTER D, no players allowed with a, b, c, or d.
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I don't like the sound of it if I'm honest
 
Physiocrat said:
Who's going to run the draft?
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@Chesterlestreet . count me in by the way.

harms said:
I don't like the sound of it if I'm honest
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I've seen that idea before and it's a pretty fun idea to be honest. You can only pick players who have names starting after your previous pick. So say you pick Maradona you lose every player who has his name starting from A-L so there's a decent bit of strategy to it. The biggest pain in the arse is deciding what a 'last name' is. Easy in the case of someone like Scott Parker - but then come the South Americans. Does Carlos Alberto Torres fall under A? T? Perhaps with the right player pool and making a rule like 'whatever it says on the jersey' (eliminating those who played in the days of just numbers at the back though) etc. Not really the worst idea to be honest.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
On that note, I've felt for a long time that the original team sheet should remain visible in the OP and the updated team sheet including substitutions should be the one that's spoilered.
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This is essentially what I want to implement: The OP stays the same, changes are made in the form of regular posts in the thread – and threadmarked at the manager's request.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
What if it's a tied match and one manages does it to gain an advantage?
Without subs, the chances of recovering from a feck up is minimal. Prefer to have it open and allow changes as needed.
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Well – in that scenario, I don't quite see why it would be necessary to make the changes before the 12 hr mark: Nobody's talking about removing the right to make changes altogether – it's simply a matter of limiting the practice.

As for the bit in bold, yes – fair point. Scrapping subs are much more important, I agree with that. But even without subs you can realistically get a situation where a bunch of neutrals all urge the manager to swap A and B – or whatever the case may be. Which is fair enough – do that. But not before the 12 hr mark. Makes it less likely that you benefit from simply following other people's advice.

Smaller tactical changes, arrows and whatnot, can be requested at any point. What constitutes a “minor” change is left to the draft master to interpret – and the latter may also look at to what degree the change in question has been (vocally) suggested by neutrals.
 
If we were to do an All-Time European draft would we need to block any players like in the Americas draft?
 
Enigma_87 said:
Cruyff and Beckenbauer I think.
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Considering that the alternatives are Platini, Eusebio, C. Ronaldo, van Basten, Puskas, Baresi, Zidane, Best, Charlton, Müller etc - I don't think we should. Yes, they are two of the best ever but you don't have the same reputation gap like we have between Maradona and, say, Rivelino.

Plus they are much more established defenders in the pool while in the SA pool only Figueroa has the same star status (discarding the fullbacks)
 
I wouldn't bother. There's plenty of debate about which of the top half dozen or so are actually the best so it would be fairly arbitrary.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
speaking of that, it would have more sense of blocking Fenomeno then Di Stefano even though the latter one is a better player.
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It is still possible to. You're right though with R9 no defender is ever given a decent chance against him. It makes sense that ADS is blocked however
 
You can't build a team around Ronaldo in the same way – that's one difference. You shouldn't be able to stick Ronaldo on the pitch and gain a clear edge just by doing so – regardless of how your opponent lines up. At the end of the day, he's a striker, not someone who is able to influence an entire team in a way that is comparable to the others.

Plus, the draft lacks monster defenders: That is something which paradoxically speaks against the influence of Ronaldo. There are multiple attackers available who will shine in the absence of yer Maldinis and Moores – and the full strength and composition of your attack will be more important than any one striker, no matter how good he is.
 
Or, in other words, there's a specific reason behind blocking the current 5 - it's not simply their GOAT status.

Ronaldo being the best striker in the pool isn't sufficient reason to block him.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
You can't build a team around Ronaldo in the same way – that's one difference. You shouldn't be able to stick Ronaldo on the pitch and gain a clear edge just by doing so – regardless of how your opponent lines up. At the end of the day, he's a striker, not someone who is able to influence an entire team in a way that is comparable to the others.
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He's not a striker, he's THE striker, tbh!

Pretty much heads above the rest. And don't understand the team building part. Pretty much stick him upfront in any formation and you get a stellar attack.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Pretty much stick him upfront in any formation and you get a stellar attack.
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Most attacks will be shades of stellar. I think you're forgetting the overall quality of the attackers available in this draft.

You block players for a specific reason, not because they're top banana (in their position) in the pool. Someone will always be top banana. The question is how much of an edge you gain from having him - to what extent other managers can make up for that edge.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Most attacks will be shades of stellar. I think you're forgetting the overall quality of the attackers available in this draft.

You block players for a specific reason, not because they're top banana (in their position) in the pool. Someone will always be top banana. The question is how much of an edge you gain from having him - to what extent other managers can make up for that edge.
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Your call.

I assumed the people banned were because they were big soats in a global pool, far less a American one, and Ronaldo fits the same criteria. I'd say he'd skew the polls significantly more than Sivori, Altafini, Sanchez and the likes.

Edit: I would not apply the same to Romario btw. Not as well rounded and complete and needs more work around him to shine.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Your call.

I assumed the people banned were because they were big soats in a global pool, far less a American one, and Ronaldo fits the same criteria. I'd say he'd skew the polls significantly more than Sivori, Altafini, Sanchez and the likes.

Edit: I would not apply the same to Romario btw. Not as well rounded and complete and needs more work around him to shine.
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If you remove Ronaldo, I think it will apply to be fair. He'll be the top dog in the rest of the pool and better than the rest by at least level above. If we ban Ronaldo, then Romario and one defender have to follow suit really as they will be clearly above the rest.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I assumed the people banned were because they were big soats in a global pool, far less a American one, and Ronaldo fits the same criteria.
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No, that wasn't the reason. Ideally, you want every player who belongs there naturally (the theme is specific, after all) to be available. They were blocked because they would likely give their managers a disproportionate edge, and thus feck up the balance of the draft.

Blocking Ronaldo only makes sense if he too will feck up the balance of the draft.

Can you compensate, in various ways, for not having the top striker in the pool? I'd say yes - obviously.

The reason for blocking those 5 is that you can't compensate to a sufficient extent - they're perceived as too influential, in short.

The Ronaldo argument can be applied to several players here. If we block him, we should look at blocking other players too. And by doing so, we open up for even further blocks (as Enigma suggests above). Again, the question shouldn't be whether X is the standout player in his position - but whether you can compensate. That's the standard - and the reason why those other players were blocked.
 
harms said:
Considering that the alternatives are Platini, Eusebio, C. Ronaldo, van Basten, Puskas, Baresi, Zidane, Best, Charlton, Müller etc - I don't think we should. Yes, they are two of the best ever but you don't have the same reputation gap like we have between Maradona and, say, Rivelino.

Plus they are much more established defenders in the pool while in the SA pool only Figueroa has the same star status (discarding the fullbacks)
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Beckenbauer and Cruyff IMO are clearly top 6 along with the other 4 in the SA pool. The thing with them is that you can put them in different teams in different positions and they would shine. For example Beckenbauer at CB/SW and midfielder has a genuine call to be the best on his own, same can be said for Cruyff as a false 9, wide attacker and #10.

The others you have mentioned - Platini, Zidane, Baresi have their alternatives in Scirea, Laudrup, Iniesta and others that are nearly the same level, but what is more important - there is less tactical flexibility with either of them, besides the names and reputation they have.

Also Maradona can be compared to another #10 left in the pool, not Rivelino and I don't think the gap would be bigger than say Cruyff/Zidane.
 
Let's look at a possible configuration:

RW --- SS --- LW
Ronaldo​

You can realistically, given the pool, counter that with:

Top RW --- GOAT level #10 --- Top LW
Top CF
​
Or:

GOAT --- Top #10 --- Top LW
Top CF​

Ronaldo won't necessarily win either of those matches for his manager. It will depend on this and that - as per usual - and the above is without considering the rest of the XIs at all.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Beckenbauer and Cruyff IMO are clearly top 6 along with the other 4 in the SA pool. The thing with them is that you can put them in different teams in different positions and they would shine. For example Beckenbauer at CB/SW and midfielder has a genuine call to be the best on his own, same can be said for Cruyff as a false 9, wide attacker and #10.

The others you have mentioned - Platini, Zidane, Baresi have their alternatives in Scirea, Laudrup, Iniesta and others that are nearly the same level, but what is more important - there is less tactical flexibility with either of them, besides the names and reputation they have.

Also Maradona can be compared to another #10 left in the pool, not Rivelino and I don't think the gap would be bigger than say Cruyff/Zidane.
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Well - maybe, it's certainly up to discussion. Although Cruyff and Beckenbauer are clearly in the same tier as the SA quartet, they somehow don't have the same influence on voters. Plus the ridiculous depth of European defensive pool helps a lot

We won't have such draft anytime soon though - we had Euros draft not so long ago anyway (with Cruyff being the worst pick of the draft :lol:). In EE draft maybe it makes sense to left Puskas out.
 
Yeah, Ronaldo is basically a striker without any weaknesses - but he doesn't have Pele/Messi/Maradona's all-conquering reputation. There are few players in such category still left to pick and he doesn't have any advantages over them
 
harms said:
Well - maybe, it's certainly up to discussion. Although Cruyff and Beckenbauer are clearly in the same tier as the SA quartet, they somehow don't have the same influence on voters. Plus the ridiculous depth of European defensive pool helps a lot

We won't have such draft anytime soon though - we had Euros draft not so long ago anyway (with Cruyff being the worst pick of the draft :lol:). In EE draft maybe it makes sense to left Puskas out.
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Yeah Puskas out of EE draft is a must - no one is on the same level as him.

I've noticed over the last drafts that Cruyff doesn't get the recognition of those 4(same must be said about Di Stefano, largely due to being tough to fit in). Especially in the auction phase didn't get much traction and is not that much of a vote puller, which IMO is strange given his reputation. Sure, the deep defensive pool in European pool plays a part.
harms said:
Yeah, Ronaldo is basically a striker without any weaknesses - but he doesn't have Pele/Messi/Maradona's all-conquering reputation. There are few players in such category still left to pick and he doesn't have any advantages over them
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IMO Ronaldo is not the one sticking out in the pool that is left. SA pool has a lot of attackers, not of his level but you can surely build a top class attack. If I am to suggest another one to be blocked it won't be an attacker.
 
List of Drafts:

Draft I: Cal?'s - New Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft II: Polaroid's - Retro Fantasy Draft - all players born in 60s (Winner: Polaroid)
Draft III: Cal?'s - 70s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cling Bak)
Draft IV: Brwned's - 50s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Brwned)
Draft V: Polaroid's Premier League 20 Season Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft VI: antohan's All -Time Fantasy Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft VII: Theon's - Champions League Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft VIII: Aldo's - Decades Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft IX: The Next Generation Draft (Winner: NM/Snow)
Draft X: World Cup All Time All Stars Draft (Winner: Annahnomoss)
Draft XI: Aldo's - Sheep Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft XII: Polaroid's - Transfer Muppet Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XIII: Annahnomoss's - Auction Draft (Winner: Cutch/Annah)
Draft XIV: rpitroda's - Criteria Draft (Winner: Aldo)
Draft XV: EAP's - Reality Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft XVI: Annahnomoss's - Managers Draft (Winner: EAP)
Draft XVII: crappycraperson's - British Irish Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XVIII: EAP's - Modern Era Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft XIX: Skizzo's - Second Sheep Draft (Winner: Cutch)
Draft XX: Balu's - Euro Draft (Winner: Joga Bonito)
Draft XXI: Annahnomoss's - All Time Auction Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft XXII: Skizzo's All Time Premier League Draft (Winner: Skizzo/Pat)
Draft XXIII: EAP's Chain Draft (Winner: The Stain)
Draft XXIV: Aldo's 40s Retro Draft (Winner: Gio/Theon)
Draft XXV: Gio's Third Redcafe Sheep Draft (Winner: Stobzilla)
Draft XXVI: Physiocrat's Billy No Mates Draft (Winner: Joga Bonito/Gio)
Draft XXVII: Marty1968's Three Leagues Draft (Winner: Enigma87/Snow)
Draft XXVIII: Aldo's Reserves Draft (Winner: RedTiger/Joga/Balu)
Draft XXIX: Joga's Remake Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft XXX: EAP's Double Draft (Winner: harms)
Draft XXI: Chesterlestreet's Americas Draft (Winner: TBC)
 
List of Drafts:

Draft I: Cal?'s - New Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft II: Polaroid's - Retro Fantasy Draft - all players born in 60s (Winner: Polaroid)
Draft III: Cal?'s - 70s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Cling Bak)
Draft IV: Polaroid's - Man Utd Legends Draft (Winner: DanNistelrooy)
Draft V: Brwned's - 50s Fantasy Draft (Winner: Brwned)
Draft VI: Polaroid's Premier League 20 Season Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft VII: antohan's All -Time Fantasy Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft VIII: Theon's - Champions League Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft IX: Aldo's - Decades Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft X: The Next Generation Draft (Winner: NM/Snow)
Draft XI: World Cup All Time All Stars Draft (Winner: Annahnomoss)
Draft XII: Aldo's - Sheep Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft XIII: Polaroid's - Transfer Muppet Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XIIV: Annahnomoss's - Auction Draft (Winner: Cutch/Annah)
Draft XV: rpitroda's - Criteria Draft (Winner: Aldo)
Draft XVI: EAP's - Reality Draft (Winner: antohan)
Draft XVII: Annahnomoss's - Managers Draft (Winner: EAP)
Draft XVIII: crappycraperson's - British Irish Draft (Winner: MJJ)
Draft XIX: EAP's - Modern Era Draft (Winner: Theon)
Draft XX: Skizzo's - Second Sheep Draft (Winner: Cutch)
Draft XXI: Balu's - Euro Draft (Winner: Joga Bonito)
Draft XXII: Annahnomoss's - All Time Auction Draft (Winner: Cal?)
Draft XXIII: Skizzo's All Time Premier League Draft (Winner: Skizzo/Pat)
Draft XXIV: EAP's Chain Draft (Winner: The Stain)
Draft XXV: Aldo's 40s Retro Draft (Winner: Gio/Theon)
Draft XXVI: Gio's Third Redcafe Sheep Draft (Winner: Stobzilla)
Draft XXVII: Physiocrat's Billy No Mates Draft (Winner: Joga Bonito/Gio)
Draft XXVIII: Marty1968's Three Leagues Draft (Winner: Enigma87/Snow)
Draft XXIX: Aldo's Reserves Draft (Winner: RedTiger/Joga/Balu)
Draft XXX: Joga's Remake Draft (Winner: Gio)
Draft XXXI: EAP's Double Draft (Winner: harms)
Draft XXXII: Chesterlestreet's Americas Draft (Winner: TBC)
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
The Monopoly Draft:

Managers will be randomized in snake order.
Every turn I'll randomize number 1-16 and allocate to managers. Just like throwing a dice. You need to pick on criteria you get for that number in snake order.
Certain numbers like 1, 2, 7, 12, 15, & 16 will not feature in every round.

It'll be a criteria draft, but everyone will have different criteria's for the same round.

We could improve the criteria's to make it more interesting in the interim.

Monopoly.jpg


Opinions?
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This is an awesome idea. But , could we get a few more squares for historical options to open up the pools?


Here are are the tweaks I would make to Legends criteria:

Monopoly Concept:

1. Legacy

Pick any player born before 1940 (not including 1940)

6. Brexit

Pick any "foreign" player that played in the PL from Jan.1 1999 - June.23, 2016.

7. Meltdown

Pick a player with a red card in a World Cup group/knockout round or Champions League knock out round match.

8. Wenger-ed

Pick any Premier League era player signed for under 10 million pounds but over 1 pound.

9. United We Stand

Pick any player with 1 game for United's senior team.

12. Half-time

Pick any player who missed 6+ consecutive months due to injury at any point in career.

13. Conquistador

Pick any player to have won Copa Libertadores

5. Leave Camp

Pick a player who has lost a Champions League/European Cup final.

14. Leave Camp 2

Pick a player who has lost a Copa Libertadores final.
 
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Just had an idea for your monopoly draft Edgar. Don't know if you think it would work or not.

Get the 16 or 24 managers however many you feel would be best. Then each nominates a criteria for a square. It would work like

Manager 1- never to have won a major trophy
Manager 2 - multiple world cup winner
Etc.

Think it would add an extra degree to the draft. Obviously up to yourself though as it was your idea.
 
P-Nut0712 said:
Just had an idea for your monopoly draft Edgar. Don't know if you think it would work or not.

Get the 16 or 24 managers however many you feel would be best. Then each nominates a criteria for a square. It would work like
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I think you'd need to have some kind of vote, otherwise you could end up with some 'dodgy' criteria. I like the idea though and EAP's original idea too, count me in when it happens.
 
I'm in as well.

And @P-Nut0712 in my very little experience of playing drafts, one thing I'd say is whenever doing such things the mod doing it always ends better than everyone giving their own choice. We saw that in the Reality draft where inconsistencies were observed. I'd rather let Pillow do it all and put it up in front of all before the start. Managers should be free to submit suggestions or improvements but he should after considering them all formalise the final list.
 
Aldo said:
I'm in as well.

And @P-Nut0712 in my very little experience of playing drafts, one thing I'd say is whenever doing such things the mod doing it always ends better than everyone giving their own choice. We saw that in the Reality draft where inconsistencies were observed. I'd rather let Pillow do it all and put it up in front of all before the start. Managers should be free to submit suggestions or improvements but he should after considering them all formalise the final list.
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Yeah I didn't mean once the draft had started it was more to design the board before any picks were made. Doesn't really make any difference to the game just gives managers that are playing a bit more influence over what the criterias are.

I definitely want to play either way.

@Edgar Allan Pillow any ideas how you're going to do the rolling of the dice?
 
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