Next Draft - Ideas and Discussions

Invictus said:
And on a similar note: don't get the annoyance with peanut bids for Bozsik, Suárez and co either. Weren't they available to basically everyone at any given time - even when exponentially worse players were picked for xN the price?
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I think so.

Has to be part and parcel of an auction draft, as I see it. The game is to spread out yer money wisely, get in the best possible XI for 300m (or whatever the amount is), as you see it. So, those Bozsik scenarios will occur - that can't be helped. People will prioritize differently, and when your Bozsiks come along nobody has the inclination or the money to challenge whoever ends up with the bargain. Even if you operate with a higher minimum bid for a select number of GOATs, you'll always get something of the sort.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
He's talking specifically about 5 and 10 mill increases depending on when the bid is launched, though.
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I forgot to delete it. Ignore the same.

Joga Bonito said:
Also when you say both Gio and Physio won't get a successful recruitment, does it mean they go empty-handed or do they get to bid on players during phase 2?
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In Phase 1 they get to nominate and bid their player. In Phase 2 they can bid on other players too. Results announced only after both phases are completed. If they have a high bid on a player in either of phases, they come out with a recruitment. Else not.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
In Phase 1 they get to nominate and bid their player. In Phase 2 they can bid on other players too. Results announced only after both phases are completed. If they have a high bid on a player in either of phases, they come out with a recruitment. Else not.
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Just to be clear can a drafter in round 1 bid on a player that he didn't nominate? e.g. I nominate Messi and bid £50m but also want CR7 nominated by Cal? can I bid for him in the first round. Or is the case that the players that were nominated are only revealed after round 1?

Also what do you think of mine and harms' idea of only revealing the successful bid amounts for each player after drafting has entirely finished but having a total of the amount of money bid on all the players successfully drafted during that round? It should hopefully stop serious cheap bargains in round 10 etc.
 
Physiocrat said:
Just to be clear can a drafter in round 1 bid on a player that he didn't nominate? e.g. I nominate Messi and bid £50m but also want CR7 nominated by Cal? can I bid for him in the first round. Or is the case that the players that were nominated are only revealed after round 1?

Also what do you think of mine and harms' idea of only revealing the successful bid amounts for each player after drafting has entirely finished but having a total of the amount of money bid on all the players successfully drafted during that round? It should hopefully stop serious cheap bargains in round 10 etc.
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Yes,

Phase 1: (Personal Nominations)
Manager A nominates Messi and bids 50m
Manager B nominates CR and bids 40m
Manager C nominates Pele and bids 70m
..continues till all 16 have nominated

Phase 2: (Bidding on other nominations)
Manager A bids on CR for 50m
Manager B bids on Messi for 50m and Pele for 60m
Manager C bids on bids on CR for 35m
...

Result:

Messi - Both A and B have 50m and so neither gets it. Messi gets back to the pool.
CR - Manager A has outbid B and has highest bid. A recruits CR
Pepe - Manager C has highest bid and recruits him.
 
Physiocrat said:
Also what do you think of mine and harms' idea of only revealing the successful bid amounts for each player after drafting has entirely finished but having a total of the amount of money bid on all the players successfully drafted during that round? It should hopefully stop serious cheap bargains in round 10 etc.
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On second thought, I just realized this'll be a bitch to run and high work intensive on the draft masters.

Maybe we should stick with original mode and just roll on with the flaws :lol:
 
I don't think the "GOAT bargain" thing is a flaw, personally. It's a natural part of the concept. It's a way to gain an edge in an auction draft, partly through luck but also through being able to resist splashing the cash to begin with.

What you could do is what was proposed above: Start from scratch money wise for each new round. That takes care of anyone gaining too much of an advantage from being frugal. The latter is obviously a very fair sort of advantage to gain, but it's also potentially a very boring one - having that edge could turn the reinforcement rounds into a dullfest (and possibly deciding the outcome of the whole thing too early).
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
On second thought, I just realized this'll be a bitch to run and high work intensive on the draft masters.

Maybe we should stick with original mode and just roll on with the flaws :lol:
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:lol:

Yeah as Invicus stated, that would probably be the best way of going about things.
 
As a general note, I'd like to see the auction format combined with something else - doesn't really matter what, but some form of restriction/curve balling.

Once the auction's done, you don't want to be "stuck" with nothing but usual suspects doing their usual thing.

Just my opinion, of course - but from a neutral point of view, the auction part is certainly less interesting than the players featured.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
As a general note, I'd like to see the auction format combined with something else - doesn't really matter what, but some form of restriction/curve balling.

Once the auction's done, you don't want to be "stuck" with nothing but usual suspects doing their usual thing.

Just my opinion, of course - but from a neutral point of view, the auction part is certainly less interesting than the players featured.
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It would've been interesting to combine Auction with Reality draft - in the way that if you'll plan wisely you'll have a deep enough squad to cover for injuries/AWOLs/disqualifications

And we can make those "reality difficulties" quite common and allow people a squad of 15-16 people; tactical versatility, valuable squad members etc
 
Don't mind the Reality draft but I'd prefer something more conducive to team-building and is less geared towards luck and surprises, esp if it's going to be an all-time pool - which is fairly hard to come by. Don't really mind curve-balls (which aren't too luck-dependent) or difficult rules as such, but then again, the past 3 drafts have been heavy on these aspects, more of the latter, in different ways.
 
Anto's old bamboozle idea still hasn't been done either. I'd like to run something like that, but it needs fleshing out so it won't be right now. *

A reality draft with some proper nasty surprises, twists and turns sounds like a good idea, though - a more light hearted one, after the scholarly one we've just had.

* What I want is a more game-ish sort of draft, where the managers get a set of "cards" they can play out in order to - partly, at least - protect themselves against the bamboozlin' (and feck up things for each other).
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Or let's just play another Reality Draft...with a bit more tough surprises.
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Yeah! But with more everything

Joga Bonito said:
Don't mind the Reality draft but I'd prefer something more conducive to team-building and is less geared towards luck and surprises
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As I said earlier - reality draft was a little off (although still a great fun!) because we used our usual drafting rules - 12 players etc. If we are to draft a bigger squad (maybe not 23, but something more significant than 12, 16-17 for example, even with reserve goalkeepers so that we won't have to excuse them from a sudden virus attack) we'll have more interesting games (with substitutions, formation changes and an actual intrigue before the games because there will be much harder to predict the opponent's tactics and personnel). And all the shenanigans, based on a pure lack (that's the fun part for me and the part that makes it more real) will only highlight manager's drafting ability and strategic planning.

As @Chesterlestreet said, a more light hearted and fun draft without the usual seriousness and tension.
 
So what's the idea? All-time pool or era'ed pools? Auction, snake, reality or sheep?

@Chesterlestreet Have any concrete thoughts for your Bamboozle draft?

FYI if Anto is only taking a year off here he should be back in September
 
I know my opinion won't count for much since I've only ever read the drafts and not participated, but I reckon a draft based either on performances in second-tier divisions, or players who have never won a league title would be quite interesting and different.
 
altodevil86 said:
I know my opinion won't count for much since I've only ever read the drafts and not participated, but I reckon a draft based either on performances in second-tier divisions, or players who have never won a league title would be quite interesting and different.
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Any contribution is the welcome :angel:

Second-tier divisions? Like the 1st Portuguese division (LIGA NOS) or do you mean 'Football League championship'?
 
altodevil86 said:
I know my opinion won't count for much since I've only ever read the drafts and not participated, but I reckon a draft based either on performances in second-tier divisions, or players who have never won a league title would be quite interesting and different.
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It might be an interesting experiment - of sorts. But I doubt it would garner much enthusiasm. In theory we could do a women's football draft, for that matter, just for the sheer novelty of it - but again, it seems more like an experiment for the sake of it than something people would be genuinely interested in.

I think a criteria draft is your best shout for getting players of the ilk you mention into play (they partly have been, at least the ones without a league title) - but basing a full draft on it seems unrealistic. Assembling an XI of second-tier/non-winners isn't that difficult. Assembling a genuinely interesting XI of that sort is much harder. And then multiple that by 16 - and, well, there you go.
 
Downcast said:
Any contribution is the welcome :angel:

Second-tier divisions? Like the 1st Portuguese division (LIGA NOS) or do you mean 'Football League championship'?
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I had leagues like the Championship, Serie B etc. in mind but the more I think about the less it seems it would work.

Chesterlestreet said:
It might be an interesting experiment - of sorts. But I doubt it would garner much enthusiasm. In theory we could do a women's football draft, for that matter, just for the sheer novelty of it - but again, it seems more like an experiment for the sake of it than something people would be genuinely interested in.

I think a criteria draft is your best shout for getting players of the ilk you mention into play (they partly have been, at least the ones without a league title) - but basing a full draft on it seems unrealistic. Assembling an XI of second-tier/non-winners isn't that difficult. Assembling a genuinely interesting XI of that sort is much harder. And then multiple that by 16 - and, well, there you go.
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Very good points, I can see where you are coming from. Although I'd argue a non league winners draft would be more interesting than most. I think having to fit in players not of the highest standard but that still retain some degree of name recognition would bring up some good debate.
 
Physiocrat said:
So what's the idea? All-time pool or era'ed pools? Auction, snake, reality or sheep?

@Chesterlestreet Have any concrete thoughts for your Bamboozle draft?

FYI if Anto is only taking a year off here he should be back in September
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Seems longer somehow. Which draft was it again? The chain one?

Anyway, no - nothing concrete as such. But I'd probably go for the criteria model as the basis: The managers need to draft players in a series of categories - and then the bamboozlin' comes on top of that. I also want cards: As in, you lose Player X because of Bamboozle Factor Y, but you can use your anti-bamboozle card Z to cancel out the bamboozlin'. That sort of thing. Each manager gets, say, three or four such cards - which gives them certain options.

Finally, I want to carry both the bamboozle and the card elements over into the actual matches - introduce something there, some limitations on what you can expect your chosen players to do, something both more "realistic" and more game like, but this part is extremely vague at the moment. The biggest difficulty is introducing something which is fun for both managers and neutrals, but essentially within the existing framework: It has to be recognizable as a draft, with football (and football history) at the core, it can't be some random new game for laughs which just mascerades as a draft - if that makes sense.
 
What do you guys think of a "confederations draft" where we have to get a certain number of players from each football confederation (i.e. UEFA, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL, CAF, etc.). Of course, it doesn't have to be equally divided between them, but we can accommodate the numbers based on how FIFA does it for the World Cup or similar.

What I want to achieve from this is the recognition and exposure of some greats from lesser-known confederations. My hope is to make this draft less Euro-/SA-centric and more diversified. It can also open up some great discussions on some of the players that don't get selected so often as well.

To determine what confederation the player is from, we can base that on which national team they had the most caps for. For example, even though Jermaine Jones is German and played for Germany, he will count as a CONCACAF player as he had more caps for U.S.A.

Let me know what you guys think of this general idea. I feel that this is better applied to an all-time draft, but we can set some criteria to make sure that there isn't too much of a discrepancy between different eras.
 
My favourite draft to watch was probably the Billy no mates one, would love to play in that. This auction things looks way too drawn out for something that's ultimately supposed to be fun
 
altodevil86 said:
I think having to fit in players not of the highest standard but that still retain some degree of name recognition would bring up some good debate.
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Absolutely - I'm very much in favour of that.

I think part of the problem is the nature of the matches as they're currently played out. Less shiny (but highly interesting) names are being picked, regularly, in these drafts - but actually discussing these players, with some real focus on them, is harder to get around to: Given the fantasy format of the matches, they tend to centre around the biggest names and the most obvious "battles" on the pitch. Which is almost inevitable - you have to argue your case against the other fella, and that usually means playing out your best cards, not talking about your more obscure choices.

I've been an advocate of some form of moderation in the match threads for some time now, and I think this could - at least potentially - be of some benefit with regard to this particular issue too: If you get someone to step in and say "alright, we've heard enough about A, B and C now - let's hear you discuss D, E and F", this could help highlighting aspects (and players) that are normally ignored.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I've been an advocate of some form of moderation in the match threads for some time now, and I think this could - at least potentially - be of some benefit with regard to this particular issue too: If you get someone to step in and say "alright, we've heard enough about A, B and C now - let's hear you discuss D, E and F", this could help highlighting aspects (and players) that are normally ignored.
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Agreed
 
DavidG said:
My favourite draft to watch was probably the Billy no mates one, would love to play in that. This auction things looks way too drawn out for something that's ultimately supposed to be fun
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Don't agree with the drawn out part of the critique.

The initial selection phase for Auction Draft lasted ~5 days:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-all-time-auction-draft.404567/page-4
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-all-time-auction-draft.404567/page-42#post-17550570

And almost 10 days for Billy No Mates:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft.413897/page-2
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft.413897/page-32#post-18734613

If anything, the Auction Draft kept every manager involved, almost throughout - vs. some of them becoming disengaged once their pick is over (in any Snake Draft) - where there's a bit of a lull until it's your turn to pick.
 
Invictus said:
Don't agree with the drawn out part of the critique.

The initial selection phase for Auction Draft lasted ~5 days:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-all-time-auction-draft.404567/page-4
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-all-time-auction-draft.404567/page-42#post-17550570

And almost 10 days for Billy No Mates:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft.413897/page-2
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/billy-no-mates-draft.413897/page-32#post-18734613

If anything, the Auction Draft kept every manager involved, almost throughout - vs. some of them becoming disengaged once their pick is over (in any Snake Draft) - where there's a bit of a lull until it's your turn to pick.
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Indeed, arguably the most engrossing draft format for managers, alongside the sheep format but even the latter is more streamlined and is all about PM-ing a pick and waiting for the results, as opposed to the auction format which demands your undivided attention, with so many things going on at the same time.

I can honestly say I've never hated anything more than seeing the alert pop up on the top right hand corner during that bloody draft :lol:, and clicking on it praying that no one has tagged me. However, I reckon it must be sort of tedious and 'feels' drawn out for spectators which is probably what DavidG is referring to. Even then, quite a few of the older managers who've played it don't quite seem to be up for another auction draft right now.

Ultimately we haven't quite reached a consensus and I reckon we should just let the managers vote for which fun draft they prefer. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to take part in it if you vote for it - it's just a basic indicator to gauge interest levels. We run the one which garners the most votes (or the first to reach 20?) and then proceed on with the sign-up phase as usual.

All-time pool Auction Draft
Reality Draft
Sheep Draft

If there are any other ideas that are feasible for the next draft, then please suggest them and vote for them. I've just included the ones that have been under discussion in the past few pages.


I'd personally prefer
All-Time Auction Draft (1 vote)
 
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mazhar13 said:
What I want to achieve from this is the recognition and exposure of some greats from lesser-known confederations. My hope is to make this draft less Euro-/SA-centric and more diversified. It can also open up some great discussions on some of the players that don't get selected so often as well.
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Do anyone care about Asian and Australian football? The level of those players is incredibly dull. Like Chester said, we can also have a women football draft but no one would be interested in it
 
harms said:
Do anyone care about Asian and Australian football? The level of those players is incredibly dull. Like Chester said, we can also have a women football draft but no one would be interested in it
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Agreed. The number of decent Asian and Australian players is really low. You'd be scrapping the barrel.

Out of interest did you see the story that an under-15 boys team beat the Austrialian women's national team 7-0.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Newcastle-Jets-15s-Rio-Olympics-warm-up.html
 
Physiocrat said:
Out of interest did you see the story that an under-15 boys team beat the Austrialian women's national team 7-0.
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Yeah, and it came out roughly at the same time as the story about US women football team demanding the same wages as men. Although their claims were not that ridiculous if the numbers they provided were correct - it seems that in USA their women team is pretty marketable
 
All-time pool Auction Draft
Joga Bonito
Reality Draft
EAP
harms
Sjor
Sheep Draft
 
harms said:
Yeah, and it came out roughly at the same time as the story about US women football team demanding the same wages as men. Although their claims were not that ridiculous if the numbers they provided were correct - it seems that in USA their women team is pretty marketable
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That could well be true with regards the USA team although I haven't followed it closely. My main beef is with people who say men and women are doing the same job so should be paid the same. It's obvious that the quality of the job is vastly different which is shown in the amount of money people are willing to pay to watch it.
 
harms said:
Do anyone care about Asian and Australian football? The level of those players is incredibly dull. Like Chester said, we can also have a women football draft but no one would be interested in it
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As I said, the numbers would be allocated accordingly, so for the smaller pools, we could make them 0-1 players.

However, it doesn't seem like anyone would ever be interested in doing something like this. I guess we'll stick with the usual pool of players, then.
 
mazhar13 said:
As I said, the numbers would be allocated accordingly, so for the smaller pools, we could make them 0-1 players.

However, it doesn't seem like anyone would ever be interested in doing something like this. I guess we'll stick with the usual pool of players, then.
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we will be lucky if everyone gets even one player like Marquez or Kagawa (players who had already taken part in these drafts btw) - and after that it's bang average, if not bad, players who will be incredibly boring to research. To make the whole draft out of it, when most of the players worthy of introducing already had been introduced?


We also have deep and unexplored SA and EE pools
 
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