NCAA College Football 2016/17

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I'll take a win over them any day (thread OP), but if not for those 2 turnovers by Speights it would have been an easy win for them. Barrett was rendered impotent for most of the game. That's troubling news considering the potential rematch in the playoffs (if the CFP committee deems them worthy... I would), or a potential clash against Bama.

Here's hoping the Spartans do their job against Penn State.
 
So now the Big 10 has...
Wisconsin (10-2) v Penn St (10-2) for the conference championship.

And they've got OSU (11-1), Michigan (10-2), Nebraska (9-3), Iowa (8-4), and Minnesota (8-4).

That's a strong conference!
 
adexkola said:
I'll take a win over them any day (thread OP), but if not for those 2 turnovers by Speights it would have been an easy win for them. Barrett was rendered impotent for most of the game. That's troubling news considering the potential rematch in the playoffs (if the CFP committee deems them worthy... I would), or a potential clash against Bama.

Here's hoping the Spartans do their job against Penn State.
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I can't see that happening. Even though both OSU and Michigan are top 4 teams, if you lose late in the season it tends to result in a plummet in the rankings (especially if it's your second loss). Didn't get to see the game but sounds like it was a classic.
 
Nik70 said:
I can't see that happening. Even though both OSU and Michigan are top 4 teams, if you lose late in the season it tends to result in a plummet in the rankings (especially if it's your second loss). Didn't get to see the game but sounds like it was a classic.
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I nearly passed out several times during the game. You could cut the tension in the air with a bread knife.

Latest CFB rankings have Michigan 5th. If Washington lose against Colorado in the PAC-12 championship game that's Michigan in. Clemson or Alabama would have to lose by large deficits in their championship games for Michigan to get in.
 
adexkola said:
I nearly passed out several times during the game. You could cut the tension in the air with a bread knife.

Latest CFB rankings have Michigan 5th. If Washington lose against Colorado in the PAC-12 championship game that's Michigan in. Clemson or Alabama would have to lose by large deficits in their championship games for Michigan to get in.
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Yes there's a chance I guess. I'm just wondering if Penn State or Wisconsin winning the Big 10 Championship would vault them above Michigan (even though Michigan has beaten them both).
 
MrMarcello said:
Will be nonsense if OSU get in without winning the conference.
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It would be nonsense if they didn't get in due to their division record. The whole conference system is broken anyway; it's time to blow it up and throw a big middle finger to the NCAA.

Four super-conferences of 16 teams with an 8-team playoff is the way forward.
 
So what we're saying is that conference/division play does not matter, just namesake and fashion of victory. Got it.

The system was broken for years with no bonafide playoff which led to breakaway bloated conferences. Conference championship games are strictly money grabs just like conference basketball tournaments - pointless but award the winner an artificial spot and thus makes it relevant.
 
Carolina Red said:
I'm sorry, but getting a scholarship that could otherwise go to a normal student = getting paid.

Not to mention all the free gear, food, training, tutoring, coaching (sport and life), physical therapy, medical care, etc. that they receive. That equals getting paid.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.forb...-already-paid-up-to-125000year/?client=safari
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No it doesn't. Getting paid equals getting paid. Normal students don't bring in millions for the university. Getting paid would be not working under a monopoly that controls their lives and doesn't allow them to negotiate their own compensation.
 
Eboue said:
No it doesn't. Getting paid equals getting paid. Normal students don't bring in millions for the university. Getting paid would be not working under a monopoly that controls their lives and doesn't allow them to negotiate their own compensation.
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So they're not paid money to go to school there? Or given tens of thousands of dollars in things that the general public has to pay for?

Interesting.

Also, you're assuming a lot when you say they bring in millions to their university. Should only college football, basketball, and baseball players be compensated since their sports are the big media draws?

And since when does everyone get to negotiate compensation anyway?

Finally, you're making a poor assumption that "normal students" don't generate revenue for the school. High profile alumni raise the profile of the school, which causes more people to want to attend, which generates revenue in the form of admissions, merchandise sales, and donations which lead to larger endowments. Harvard isn't world renowned for its athletics, it's world renowned because of its "normal students".
 
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I have zero problems and give no fecks about Fournette and McCaffrey refusing to play in shit bowl games. Especially seeing as these schools never take care of the slaves athletes that suffer life-altering injuries. Can't recall which show, perhaps OTL or Real Sports, maybe both, ran a segment on athletes that suffer injuries and lose their scholarships, and the school does not cover them thereafter.
 
Athletic scholarships are 1 year scholarships. Student athletes are made aware of this when they sign the scholarship offer.

That being said, athletes losing their scholarship due to injury is rare. My alma mater paid for 2 medical bills for my brother as he was injured twice a D1 athlete for the university.

Calling them "slaves" is ridiculous. They choose to play that sport. They choose to accept the offer to go there. They choose to accept a 1 year scholarship offer. They choose to accept the risk of injury to play the sport.

Fournette and McCaffrey's TEAM is in that bowl game. They're still members of said team. Maybe they should have just sat out the whole season if they were that worried about injury and protecting their draft pick. Everyone already knew they were good, right?
 
Do you agree military members (volunteer service and sign-up knowing the risks) should be cared for for life after service?

So volunteer athletes that suffer life-altering injuries should not be covered after their scholarship?
 
MrMarcello said:
Do you agree military members (volunteer service and sign-up knowing the risks) should be cared for for life after service?

So volunteer athletes that suffer life-altering injuries should not be covered after their scholarship?
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Bit of false equivalency there. College athletes aren't being shot at and they aren't employed by the federal government.

If they're on an athletic scholarship (of which the university has a limited number of) and they suffer a career ending injury, meaning they are taking up a roster spot that a healthy scholarship athlete can fill, I see no reason why the team should renew their scholarship for another season.

The only change I would agree with is guaranteeing medical care at the school level separate from their status as an athletic scholarship recipient or to make it easier for athletes suffering catastrophic injury to access the NCAA's catastrophic injury medical insurance policy, which covers athletes for up to $20 million, but is very hard to become eligible for.

Besides that, they're paid well enough already. My brother got well over $120,000 in various compensation for being an athlete for our university. Pretty good for a "volunteer".
 
Carolina Red said:
So they're not paid money to go to school there? Or given tens of thousands of dollars in things that the general public has to pay for?

Interesting.

Also, you're assuming a lot when you say they bring in millions to their university. Should only college football, basketball, and baseball players be compensated since their sports are the big media draws?

And since when does everyone get to negotiate compensation anyway?

Finally, you're making a poor assumption that "normal students" don't generate revenue for the school. High profile alumni raise the profile of the school, which causes more people to want to attend, which generates revenue in the form of admissions, merchandise sales, and donations which lead to larger endowments. Harvard isn't world renowned for its athletics, it's world renowned because of its "normal students".
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That's a pretty basic tenet of a free market.
 
Eboue said:
That's a pretty basic tenet of a free market.
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Yet many companies and government entities do not allow it. "Negotiation" = you accept the job or you don't accept the job. Which is the same as accepting or not accepting the scholarship offer.
 
Those aren't monopolies. This is a monopoly where rich institutions make massive sums of money off of poor workers without paying them or allowing them to negotiate their own compensation. It's always amazing to me that people who would normally sympathize with workers against corporations flip when it comes to college athletics.
 
They aren't paid in any meaningful sense of the word. In no other industry is there a legal monopoly where the workers are not able to negotiate a salary. Giving them a lunch pass at the dining hall and a nice dormitory to sleep in is not legal tender.
 
Eboue said:
They aren't paid in any meaningful sense of the word. In no other industry is there a legal monopoly where the workers are not able to negotiate a salary. Giving them a lunch pass at the dining hall and a nice dormitory to sleep in is not legal tender.
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It could be a legal tender and it can legally be a salary but the key is that they are not workers, their statute tells you everything here they are student-athletes not employees, the coach is an employee though and he isn't a teacher. And if we take a slight tangent and look at his remuneration your point becomes obvious.
 
Eboue said:
They aren't paid in any meaningful sense of the word. In no other industry is there a legal monopoly where the workers are not able to negotiate a salary. Giving them a lunch pass at the dining hall and a nice dormitory to sleep in is not legal tender.
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I cannot negotiate my salary. I either accept or decline the contract... So...

Also, they get much much more than that, you've simply ignored it.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.forb...-already-paid-up-to-125000year/?client=safari
 
Carolina Red said:
Athletic scholarships are 1 year scholarships. Student athletes are made aware of this when they sign the scholarship offer.

That being said, athletes losing their scholarship due to injury is rare. My alma mater paid for 2 medical bills for my brother as he was injured twice a D1 athlete for the university.

Calling them "slaves" is ridiculous. They choose to play that sport. They choose to accept the offer to go there. They choose to accept a 1 year scholarship offer. They choose to accept the risk of injury to play the sport.

Fournette and McCaffrey's TEAM is in that bowl game. They're still members of said team. Maybe they should have just sat out the whole season if they were that worried about injury and protecting their draft pick. Everyone already knew they were good, right?
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It's a damn meaningless exhibition game that's just a money-grab by the universities. There's several times more bowl games than they're used to be. It's absurd, and they'd be stupid to risk any draft stock by partaking in a 4 hour long commercial spot.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
It's a damn meaningless exhibition game that's just a money-grab by the universities. There's several times more bowl games than they're used to be. It's absurd, and they'd be stupid to risk any draft stock by partaking in a 4 hour long commercial spot.
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They are members of the team. The team is in the game. Now some folks may have been raised differently, but I was taught when my team plays, I'm there. What they're doing, to my point of view as a coach, is quitting.

Would McCaffrey have not played had Stanford made the Rose Bowl? Would Fournette have not played if they had made the Cotton Bowl?
 
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Carolina Red said:
Bit of false equivalency there. College athletes aren't being shot at and they aren't employed by the federal government.

If they're on an athletic scholarship (of which the university has a limited number of) and they suffer a career ending injury, meaning they are taking up a roster spot that a healthy scholarship athlete can fill, I see no reason why the team should renew their scholarship for another season.

The only change I would agree with is guaranteeing medical care at the school level separate from their status as an athletic scholarship recipient or to make it easier for athletes suffering catastrophic injury to access the NCAA's catastrophic injury medical insurance policy, which covers athletes for up to $20 million, but is very hard to become eligible for.

Besides that, they're paid well enough already. My brother got well over $120,000 in various compensation for being an athlete for our university. Pretty good for a "volunteer".
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My apologies on the tardiness, I've been in Las Vegas for the past few days.

Anyhow, if we're going to be honest here, student athletes are practically serving in a non-paid occupation. My point being that lifelong medical care should be provided when an injury is incurred during game play, training, etc. which you basically agreed with. I'm not arguing for pay-for-play although seeing as how the NCAA forbids student athletes for having jobs (at least in the case of football players), I certainly am for a stipend if nothing else.

As for the (sham of) bowl system, I hope more players start skipping them. The bowl games are pointless and pathetic and have been nothing but a money/merchandise grab by schools and universities. Expand the playoffs and get rid of this "here's your participation trophy for finishing 6-6!" bowl game. And spare me the "missing class" academic argument which went out the window when the NCAA added a 12th game and conference championships to slate that already included M-F network gamenight options.
 
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How do people see the final lining up?

Cant see past Alabama getting in, and as a Buckeye fan i'd love to see them squeak in - but Clemson for me are more likely to make it.
 
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