Not only should he have been in there, he should have won. He was in the G-League last year, now he's a borderline star.
NBA 2021-2022
- Thread starter elmo
- Start date
It’s a fair list. Morant has elevated himself from a very good point guard to All-NBA, it’s arguably the toughest step to make. Garland and Murray have both become All-Stars after being decent/good before that.
I remember someone on one of my podcasts making a point that sometimes people misjudge this award and confuse ‘being given more minutes’ with improved.
Poole is a perfect example of that. In 2020-21 he played 19.5 minutes a game and scored 12 points a game, shooting 43% from the floor and 35% from three, got less than 2 rebounds a game and slightly under 2 assists per game. This season playing 30 minutes a night he’s got 19 points a game shooting 45%/36% respectively, and got 4 assists and 4 rebounds a game. He’s basically got the same numbers but got to play more. Obviously it’s not an easy thing to do, playing starter minutes is way different from playing against bench units and I would have no issue with him being there but I feel like this award should not exist to recognize players growing into bigger roles with their teams and going from rotation players to starters quite naturally due to being older and more experienced.
Ja has got from 19 points a game to 27 points a game while playing same minutes, on much higher efficiency. I have no idea what argument could be built for Poole deserving this more than him.
It’s also basically the least important award anyway.
Jordan Poole's season can really be divided into two. Those games he had as a starter and those coming off the bench. To start the season, he shared the backcourt with Steph and the Dubs were the best team in the league, then Klay came back and Poole was relegated to the bench. This seemed to really upset his rhythm and to be honest the Warriors rhythm as a whole and the Dubs suffered as a result. However, as a starter he played 51 games and in many of them was the go to guy for the team - a team which included Steph, Klay and Andrew Wiggins (2 of which were All stars from this season). As far as Garland and Murray are concerned it's much easier to shine when you are on a team that's not that good because you are head and shoulders above everyone else. In Ja's case, even he said he didn't belong on the list. He was a star last season and the Grizzlies best player, he's a star this season and the Grizzlies best player. Poole was able to shine on a team that finished with the 3rd best record in the league and more importantly often carried the load when the Dubs stars were either out or not performing to their expected level. In 51 games as a starter he averaged 21/4/4 and was often the Dubs best player. Last year he spent time in the G-League and at that point in his career no one would have batted an eye if he had fallen out of the league. His improvement has been phenomenal and totally unexpected and he's often done it at a time when he was needed most.
EDIT: Almost forgot. He also led the league in FT percentage at 92.5%.
EDIT: Almost forgot. He also led the league in FT percentage at 92.5%.
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I appreciate his role in the team has increased dramatically, which was kind of my point. He got better as a player, as a reward he’s been given much more time on the floor and has become an important piece of the roster. He’s kind of the same as Maxey in that regard, neither of them are on the shortlist.
The award is called the most improved player. It’s not ‘the player whose role changed the most’. Going from 20 points a game in the 8th seed to 27 a game in 2nd seed and being All-NBA is a huge improvement, and as I said it is the toughest leap to make. You normally expect players to keep getting more important roles as they develop, it happens every year and is not what this award is about. When you look at previous winners it’s typically either players who were struggling/underwhelming that suddenly got amazing (Oladipo, Randle) or those who made a leap from very good to All-NBA/All-Star (Ingram, Siakam).
Also completely unfair on you to say it’s easy for Garland to shine because the team is bad when his team was actually 3rd in the conference for a long time until they got completely torn apart by injuries more than any other team this season. They would have easily made it into the playoffs if it wasn’t for injuries, against any preseason expectations. He’s gone from 17 & 6 to 22 & 8 which is significant too.
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As far as Garland is concerned I didn't say it was easy. I said it was much easier and I think that is true especially when you consider their respective roles. Also, as far as going from star to borderline superstar (and I do qualify it since for me he'll have to be great for more than 1/2 a season to deserve the "superstar" moniker) v going from the G-League to borderline star (same qualification) I think the latter is more impressive in terms of improvement. However, it looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
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IMO it’s much harder to become good enough to lift your team to playoffs which Garland would have done if it had not been for injuries to Allen & Mobley. Garland was basically a good player on an awful team last year, and a star on a very good team for most of the season.
Making a step up to become a productive player on good minutes in any team, good or bad, is hard. Most players don’t manage to do that by year 3 which is why most of the drafted players become jorneymen and jump from team to team. However there are many players who do make that improvement and cement their position in the league. Maxey was one example, Simons is another good one this year. Bane another one who went from decent/bit part player to proper quality this year, and Miles Bridges would have been a good candidate too. Poole might actually be hurt by the fact he had already started to be decent towards the end of his second season. He was dreadful in year 1 and from what I recall started very poorly in year 2 as well.
I wouldn’t have an issue with any of them getting the award to be honest, or Poole for that matter, it’s just that I find it strange that people are outraged over the final trio when all of them made very significant improvements this year.
I think there are like 7-8 players who could get it this year and I wouldn’t complain.
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Fair enough.
Pretty much agree a lot here, it's a pretty trivial award that's (mostly) focused on not ultra superstar potential players, otherwise, why isn't LeBron winning it in his second season with the same jump as Ja, and many others etc.
I may be wrong, but has a rookie of the year won it before.... especially in their 3rd year after two seasons of major promise? They've set the precedent that if you live up to your draft pick, you are kinda unofficially ineligible for (winning at least as I ain't looking through nominations) it.
Well thinking about it more, I kind of agree it’s weird for Ja to be eligible… he was amazing in his first season, got better and led his team to the playoffs the second season so it was only natural for him to get even better in his third. I reckon most did not anticipate him to be this good already though.
Personally where I feel best about this award is when someone who had clearly been struggling and had some doubts cast over him becomes properly good. Randle last season was a good example, Oladipo before, to an extent McCollum when he won it, and Garland this year would be fairly OK in that as he was bad in his first season, decent but not great last year… but perhaps too good already to be in the ‘struggling’ category. Or when a player I never expected to be that amazing gets to a very high level, and improves further eg Siakam. Otherwise I pretty much just expect good players to keep getting better in their growth time as their roles develop…
Then again you will have Randle be great one year and then go back to his normal self anyway.
You have a podcast?
Also, I had no idea Ja was eligible for the MIP award. Bane on the same team is more deserving.
Looking at some nominations, looks like Luka lost out to Brandon Ingram two years ago, how much I follow that award.... which is a perfect example of what you kind of talk about.
Ingram stats go up, not due to minutes, but to usage from a trade allowing it. But his effectiveness actually drops, although some advanced stats back up improvement too, but it's mostly linked to higher usage.
Luka just improves, in almost every facet basic stats and advanced.
Ingram wins, because let's face it, they don't see him long term winning another award. Face fits for the perception of this award - historically, even if there have been some anomalies.
Ingram stats go up, not due to minutes, but to usage from a trade allowing it. But his effectiveness actually drops, although some advanced stats back up improvement too, but it's mostly linked to higher usage.
Luka just improves, in almost every facet basic stats and advanced.
Ingram wins, because let's face it, they don't see him long term winning another award. Face fits for the perception of this award - historically, even if there have been some anomalies.
Speaking of the MIP award, the one I can always remember is Dale Ellis. Went from a bench scrub in Dallas to a starter for Seattle and more than tripled his PPG from 7.1 to 24.9. Possibly the biggest one-season change in league history.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellisda01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ellisda01.html
I hear you on the general improvement vs just increased minutes/usage. It just felt weird on the surface to see Ja nominated when he's been a star from the moment he stepped into the league, even acknowledging his step up from star to borderline superstar.
I was listening to an interview by Ethan Strauss (covers the Warriors) on Cowherd, and he basically said that not only was Jordan Poole bad in his first year, you could actually make a fairly strong case that he was the worst player in the NBA..
He did improve in his second year, but he was fairly awful in the first part of that as well hence the G-League assignment.
He did improve in his second year, but he was fairly awful in the first part of that as well hence the G-League assignment.
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Philly play good basketball. Harden's transition to a full time facilitator has been fascinating to watch. Pretty impressive.
Playoffs have been infested with ticky tack foul calls so far. Always hope that shit stays in the regular season allowing all the nonsense stat hunting but in the post season it should be closer to real basketball. Not so far, highly disappointing.
Kinda always expected that whistle will be tougher in playoffs but seems that shit is selective as hell, one game player cant get a call even when he is hacked and then other game, FTs for slightest touch.
If you are referring to Jokic, they were just "love taps."
The funny thing about this is that Jae had the second best +/- on the court after CP3 yesterday. His defense was exceptional.
If you are referring to Jokic, they were just "love taps."
Nah, meant in general, when it comes to Jokic, i remember one situation from top of my head, when Green fouled him 4 times in 7 sec and nothing, there were maybe more than one, doesnt matter really. Just find it odd and dont know why there is such a gap.
Gordon caught Bartonitis 100%
What a game from Jalen Brunson. 41 points as Mavs beat the Jazz.
They exploded from 3 through, Kleber 8-11 himself. A lot of their offense was just walking across and then shooting the 3 even if the player wasn't open (though that improved later on with Brunson driving and kicking more). Not sustainable but hopefully Doncic can come back by game 3 and they can get a win at Utah.
They exploded from 3 through, Kleber 8-11 himself. A lot of their offense was just walking across and then shooting the 3 even if the player wasn't open (though that improved later on with Brunson driving and kicking more). Not sustainable but hopefully Doncic can come back by game 3 and they can get a win at Utah.
That new "death" lineup is mighty effective. All five on the floor down 43-35 with 6.02 to go in half. HT up 57-51.
Officiating in the GS DN game has been a joke, GS getting calls for the softest contact whole DN and Jokic have been pounded with hits without any calls. They're getting really frustrated as well.
Without Murray and MPJ this Denver team just has nothing outside of Jokic. This series will be a sweep.
This Warriors offense is insane if Poole continues with this form (might quell later on). Defensively they have been great as well but honestly if this was Embiid they would be getting foul calls every person.
Lots of fouls being called at the end of this 3rd. Denver has no idea on how to play against the 3G lineup.
Jokic gets a bit of the Steph treatment. There were fouls on Steph on a lot of his field goal attempts in the first half.
Already said, people dont realize how bad this Denver roster is in current state and it was like this more or less whole season, Cousins saved bench with Bones from deep deep minus. If Denver keep Barton in offseason, people will lose their shit, uncle Jeff cant be a starter for serious team.
This whole Barton vs Cousins thing is actually funny, i mean what the feck haha
This whole Barton vs Cousins thing is actually funny, i mean what the feck haha
Oh boy
Draymond literally has Jokic arm in a lock and yet Jokic gets a technical 
The refs are targeting him now with no calls.
The refs are targeting him now with no calls.
Just dont get it, even when its clear foul its not being called, wonder why, dont think they have anything against him or something stupid like that but i could bet that Embiid with same attempt would get it, is it because it looks different, so odd but its been like that last few seasons more or less.
It's funny that people are saying that Warriors had locked down Jokic and he ended up with 26 points in 28 minutes. The rest of the team is just bad.
Marcus Smart wins defensive player of the year, a lot of people were happy to trade him previously but really upped his game another level… well done.
If this Dubs team can stay injury free they really might have a shot this year.
I think it’s the best chance the Celtics have had in years, they look like a proper team everyone working together, but I suspect Tatum needs to play even better than he has to beat the Nets because they didn’t look to be at their best and still could’ve won. Beat the Nets and anything is possible…
People have talked about how the MVP award can be agenda driven but it seems the DPOY award is the most, really surprised that a guard hadn't had won it since GP eventhough there have been great guard defenders since then (Kobe, Bowen). It seems the media decide who is a good defender this season and just run with it, Giannis and Rudy had won the last 4 I think but weren't even in the top 3 this year.
Gobert is the best regular season defender in the NBA. Voters are just bored with his dominance.