NBA 2018-2019

RobinLFC said:
How is Houston so bad all of a sudden, despite Harden putting up huge points?

I haven't seen any games apart from the Lakers ones and only a few highlights, but I wouldn't put it past LeBron to beat the likes of Memphis and the Clippers in a playoff series no matter which team he's on, unless those teams have massively improved since last year. Although even then, I wouldn't ever back the Clippers to reach the Conference Finals.
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Their defense is bad and they are missing CP3 big time. They don't have a second playmaker when he's unavailable so their problems with shot creation become even more visible and they cannot compensate that anymore by grinding out games in defense as they no longer have Ariza and Luc.

The reason why they ended up first seed in the West last year was most of all their good defense. They lost their two best defenders in the offseason and their defensive coordinator has only come back a couple of weeks ago after their horrendous start so it will take a while before they start playing defense properly (and their personnel is far, far worse compared to last year). I think they will still win around 50 games in the end but I don't see them being a threat for the Warriors this year and I won't be surprised if they drop outside of top 3 with 45 wins or so.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Longshot.



While Westbrook is one of the more entertaining players in the league, he is overrated imo, and as you say more interested in triple doubles than winning. Should never have choosen him over Durant as the franchise player. If they had, i could see them having at least one title. OKC looks like the likely candidate to reach the finals and getting slaughtered by GSW, with Toronto being the opposition in the finals if Kawhi stays healthy.
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While I agree that Westbrook is abit of a stat chaser, I wouldn’t necessarily agree that OKC would have been better off making Durant the franchise player at Westbrook’s expense. One thing you can’t accuse Westbrook of is lacking loyalty whereas Durant is abit of a snake - even if he were the main guy I wouldn’t have put it past him to still leave OKC for an easy ring elsewhere. Harden would have perhaps been the better franchise player but Durant no, I’d still prefer Russell tbh.
 
Trae Young suffers from the Curry 2.0 comparison which is simply lazy and grossly inaccurate. Right now it doesn't matter since the Hawks are tanking anyway but for the future he'll need a coach who disciplines him regarding shot selection. Having the ability to score from long range and getting hot once in a while does not mean you're a great shooter, just look at chucker Jamal Crawford.

What gives me hope is his playmaking ability which might be the best for a rookie since CP3. If he adds smart shot selection to that he might become similar to Nash but he really needs to mature for that. So far his comments ("Underrated my whole life" regarding NBA2K rating and "I'll be better than Doncic") suggests me that he's massively overrating his abilities, which is worrying.
 
Kasper said:
Trae Young suffers from the Curry 2.0 comparison which is simply lazy and grossly inaccurate. Right now it doesn't matter since the Hawks are tanking anyway but for the future he'll need a coach who disciplines him regarding shot selection. Having the ability to score from long range and getting hot once in a while does not mean you're a great shooter, just look at chucker Jamal Crawford.

What gives me hope is his playmaking ability which might be the best for a rookie since CP3. If he adds smart shot selection to that he might become similar to Nash but he really needs to mature for that. So far his comments ("Underrated my whole life" regarding NBA2K rating and "I'll be better than Doncic") suggests me that he's massively overrating his abilities, which is worrying.
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Yeah as I said, his passing is what gives me hope that he can be a good NBA player. Problem is, when you compare him to someone like Chris Paul, he may have 80% of his passing skills and 80% of his shooting ability (Paul wasn't always a good shooter) but he will never be half a defender that Paul is. Of course you don't need to be Chris Paul to be a good NBA guard but when you traded Doncic for him you'd expect him to be damn good.

His 2K rating is actually too high. I think they still have him at 85 open three (I don't know because I never trade for him and never play with Hawks, the few times I have he was quite fun to use and shot well which was completely unrealistic).

He'll not be better than Doncic. A 28-year old fully matured Trae Young will be worse than Luka Doncic is now. Doncic is just spectacular (he was so, so good yesterday).
 
Sarni said:
I didn’t because I could not use any of the bookies that offered it. I regret that as the line was 44.5 and they obviously won’t reach that and the other bet with them not making the playoffs is basically a lock (and it was 2.20). Free money basically, the maximum they will win is 41 (I actually think they will win 37-38 at most) and not a chance they make the playoffs. Not really a prediction I would be calling out as wrong now considering they are barely .500 and 11th in conference that is stacked with quality teams.

Covington has been good for them but Wiggins is still horrendous, Towns has been mostly disappointing, Rose won’t sustain this level for the season and as predicted Thibs is still running his players into the ground which will result in them losing a lot of games in the second half of season.
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It's not really about calling out , I just didnt see any value in a big money bet at that point and I still feel the same .
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
It's not really about calling out , I just didnt see any value in a big money bet at that point and I still feel the same .
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44.5 was a ridiculous line that probably still factored in Butler’s presence somehow or at least the possibility of them getting return that’s close to his level. Covington is a great defender and Saric is a good complimentary talent but over the long run they are not going to be that good. Rose is also not going to play at this level for much longer I think.

As for their playoffs chance they are almost non-existent in my opinion and they were priced 2.20 to not make the playoffs - again ridiculous value. There are six teams that are locks to finish above them and there’s very little chance they outdo the rest.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Whats your guys take on OKC? Will they be the ones that will meet GSW in the western conf. finals?
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Fosu-Mens said:
While Westbrook is one of the more entertaining players in the league, he is overrated imo, and as you say more interested in triple doubles than winning. Should never have choosen him over Durant as the franchise player. If they had, i could see them having at least one title. OKC looks like the likely candidate to reach the finals and getting slaughtered by GSW, with Toronto being the opposition in the finals if Kawhi stays healthy.
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OKC seem to be a good team. Best defense in the league and an average offense. I expect the offense to improve as Westbrook plays more games. The defense could be unbelievable if Roberson gets back to 80-85% of what he was. The schedule has been a bit soft so far, however. I think we're a decent chance to make the second-round. Sneaky chance of making the WCF.

Serious issue with the bold comments though. First, Westbrook is playing differently than the last few seasons. A lot more off-ball and deferring to Schroder and George. And second, OKC never chose him over Durant as the franchise player. Durant was the franchise player. Westbrook took a back-seat to Durant (it's just the media always highlighted the times he didn't and made it seem like the norm). The only reason Westbrook became 'the guy' is because the franchise player walked out join the Warriors bandwagon and cruise to two-three championships.
 
ZDwyr said:
OKC seem to be a good team. Best defense in the league and an average offense. I expect the offense to improve as Westbrook plays more games. The defense could be unbelievable if Roberson gets back to 80-85% of what he was. The schedule has been a bit soft so far, however. I think we're a decent chance to make the second-round. Sneaky chance of making the WCF.

Serious issue with the bold comments though. First, Westbrook is playing differently than the last few seasons. A lot more off-ball and deferring to Schroder and George. And second, OKC never chose him over Durant as the franchise player. Durant was the franchise player. Westbrook took a back-seat to Durant (it's just the media always highlighted the times he didn't and made it seem like the norm). The only reason Westbrook became 'the guy' is because the franchise player walked out join the Warriors bandwagon and cruise to two-three championships.
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Did not know that, only started following NBA during the last two years. But got that impression from the media that RW was their player for the future and KD left due to not being the numbero uno. If Durant left while being the franchise player i do understand the snake comparison better.

For the record, OKC is the team i support in the NBA. Partly due to the ferocity that RW plays with, but still think he is stat padding to much. Schroder has been great, Adams TOP3/5 center in the league despite unable to shot from distance(something he is training on), PG been good. If/when Robertson comes back they will be even harder to score against. If they had a good shooter they might have been able to have a chance against GSW.
Which team in the west do you hold as the favourite to meet GSW in the WCF?
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Did not know that, only started following NBA during the last two years. But got that impression from the media that RW was their player for the future and KD left due to not being the numbero uno. If Durant left while being the franchise player i do understand the snake comparison better.

For the record, OKC is the team i support in the NBA. Partly due to the ferocity that RW plays with, but still think he is stat padding to much. Schroder has been great, Adams TOP3/5 center in the league despite unable to shot from distance(something he is training on), PG been good. If/when Robertson comes back they will be even harder to score against. If they had a good shooter they might have been able to have a chance against GSW.
Which team in the west do you hold as the favourite to meet GSW in the WCF?
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Durant was near universally regarded as the better player but Westbrook had a (fully deserved IMO) reputation as someone who is hard to play with, plays for his own stats, makes bad decisions etc.
 
A reminder that OKC is the poster child of everything that is wrong with american pro sports and the organization deserves every bad thing that can happen to them. Especially the owners.

The fans are great though and actually deserve better.

Durant made 100% the right call leaving them. For us as much shit as he got for the whole burner account fiasco -deserved, it was hilarious- he was spot on. The Thunder traded away James Harden just months after going to the finals for 30 cents on the dollar because the owners -the ones who stole the franchise from seattle- were too cheap to keep him. James fecking Harden
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Which team in the west do you hold as the favourite to meet GSW in the WCF?
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It's too early to say I think. I guess at the moment I'd have OKC as the favourite but that could change in a week :lol:.


Eboue said:
Durant was near universally regarded as the better player but Westbrook had a (fully deserved IMO) reputation as someone who is hard to play with, plays for his own stats, makes bad decisions etc.
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I think that, while not untrue, the reputation was exaggerated and that Durant was given a lot of leeway despite also making bad decisions and playing for stats. But Durant is clearly the superior player and was rightfully positioned as the franchise leader.

giorno said:
A reminder that OKC is the poster child of everything that is wrong with american pro sports and the organization deserves every bad thing that can happen to them. Especially the owners.

The fans are great though and actually deserve better.

Durant made 100% the right call leaving them. For us as much shit as he got for the whole burner account fiasco -deserved, it was hilarious- he was spot on. The Thunder traded away James Harden just months after going to the finals for 30 cents on the dollar because the owners -the ones who stole the franchise from seattle- were too cheap to keep him. James fecking Harden
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How so? Or are you speaking specifically to the owners and the re-location? People talk about the Harden trade like OKC traded away the current version of Harden. While he was obviously talented (and it was a mistake to get rid of him) it wasn't like they traded away MVP Harden.
 
ZDwyr said:
How so? Or are you speaking specifically to the owners and the re-location? People talk about the Harden trade like OKC traded away the current version of Harden. While he was obviously talented (and it was a mistake to get rid of him) it wasn't like they traded away MVP Harden.
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Yes, i'm talking about the relocation

Though there is much to be said about Presti as well, both the stuff influenced by the owners(yes, Harden wasn't yet MVP Harden, but he was quite clearly a very special player. He was the whole reason you even beat the Spurs in the first place. He was very clearly and obviously better than Ibaka. But even so, 1) OKC could have kept both if the owners were willing to pay and 2) he was traded away for the first offer, months before the club actually even needed to consider trading him.). You also wasted years of KD with Scott Brooks, then replaced him with Billy Donovan. You had a team in place that could go on to become a dynasty, and you ended up throwing it all away in part because your owners were too cheap to go for it & the GM made a number of dumb moves. (Then there's the injuries of course). When you watch what Durant got into with the Warriors and compare with what he had in OKC, i find it really hard to blame him. 'Course, going to the dubs was kinda cheap given the way he seems concerned about his legacy
 
giorno said:
Yes, i'm talking about the relocation

Though there is much to be said about Presti as well, both the stuff influenced by the owners(yes, Harden wasn't yet MVP Harden, but he was quite clearly a very special player. He was the whole reason you even beat the Spurs in the first place. He was very clearly and obviously better than Ibaka. But even so, 1) OKC could have kept both if the owners were willing to pay and 2) he was traded away for the first offer, months before the club actually even needed to consider trading him.). You also wasted years of KD with Scott Brooks, then replaced him with Billy Donovan. You had a team in place that could go on to become a dynasty, and you ended up throwing it all away in part because your owners were too cheap to go for it & the GM made a number of dumb moves. (Then there's the injuries of course). When you watch what Durant got into with the Warriors and compare with what he had in OKC, i find it really hard to blame him. 'Course, going to the dubs was kinda cheap given the way he seems concerned about his legacy
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While there is a lot of negativity around Clay Bennett and the ownership group most people speak very highly about Presti (both as a person and a GM). He has made some mistakes (and the Harden trade being a big one) but I'd say he is one of the better GMs in the league.

Harden was a better player than Ibaka but I think they thought Ibaka was the better fit for the team - rightfully or wrongly. I'm not sure they threw away a potential dynasty either. They would have been a great chance to win the title in 2013 but Russ got injured, then the next year Ibaka got injured, then the year after everyone got injured. It was a lot of unfortunate events. These were more significant than a few minor GM trades (the Harden one being the possible exception).

If KD had stayed OKC would have had a starting lineup of: Westbrook, Roberson, Durant, Horford and Adams. With Oladipo coming off the bench. That team could compete with the Warriors. OKC reporters have gone on record saying that the plan was always to spend and go deep into the luxury tax when KD and Westbrook were in their prime. The plan changed when KD left and now they are doing it with the George and Westbrook team. KD left because he was insecure about his legacy and it was a guaranteed title. He could have won if he had stayed.
 
Eboue said:
Westbrook had a (fully deserved IMO) reputation as someone who is hard to play with, plays for his own stats, makes bad decisions etc.
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Thats the impression i get when watching their games. Reminds me of Sanchez, and that may be the reason for my issue with him. Both having great abilites as an individual, but not as part of a team.

ZDwyr said:
It's too early to say I think. I guess at the moment I'd have OKC as the favourite but that could change in a week :lol:.
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OKC can beat everyone and lose to everyone.
Rockets seems out of it with Capela not being near his best form and CP with injuries and age.
Portland: Decent team. Good form.
Spurs: Greg Pop does not like 3point games. Will retire after this season.
Minnesota TB: Might actually have a chance.
 


I kinda agree. I'm not opposed to 3 pointers but this Rockets style play of iso chuck it up 3 is something I hate
 
Would teams packing the paint with no spacing be entertaining to watch though?
 
Fantastic game going into OT between Toronto and GS. Kawhi’s been great, but KD’s been unbelievable. Raptors should have had this in the bag, but the Warriors stayed within touching distance, and KD hit the big shots in crunch time. Win or lose, good minutes for their role players in a playoff like atmosphere without Steph and Draymond.
 
ArseHat said:
Fantastic game going into OT between Toronto and GS. Kawhi’s been great, but KD’s been unbelievable. Raptors should have had this in the bag, but the Warriors stayed within touching distance, and KD hit the big shots in crunch time. Win or lose, good minutes for their role players in a playoff like atmosphere without Steph and Draymond.
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That was really good to watch! KD! :drool:
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Did not know that, only started following NBA during the last two years. But got that impression from the media that RW was their player for the future and KD left due to not being the numbero uno. If Durant left while being the franchise player i do understand the snake comparison better.

For the record, OKC is the team i support in the NBA. Partly due to the ferocity that RW plays with, but still think he is stat padding to much. Schroder has been great, Adams TOP3/5 center in the league despite unable to shot from distance(something he is training on), PG been good. If/when Robertson comes back they will be even harder to score against. If they had a good shooter they might have been able to have a chance against GSW.
Which team in the west do you hold as the favourite to meet GSW in the WCF?
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Adams isn’t a top 5 let alone top 3 center in the league. He’s in the second tier of centers with players like Nurkic, Vucevic, Drummond etc. (though they are good at different things).
 
Sarni said:
Adams isn’t a top 5 let alone top 3 center in the league. He’s in the second tier of centers with players like Nurkic, Vucevic, Drummond etc. (though they are good at different things).
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I agree he's not top 5 but I'd say he's in the 6th-10th category. I'd rank him above the ones you listed.
 
ZDwyr said:
I agree he's not top 5 but I'd say he's in the 6th-10th category. I'd rank him above the ones you listed.
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Yeah he is probably around top 10. One issue I have with rating centers these days is that they usually specialize at one end of the floor and it’s hard to compare some of them with each other. I mean how can you compare Jokic and Adams?

Embiid, Gasol and Davis are excellent at everything but after that it becomes very diverse.
 
DeAndre Jordan is shooting 76% from free throws.

Someone give him a piss test. This a new type of PED
 
Skills said:
DeAndre Jordan is shooting 76% from free throws.

Someone give him a piss test. This a new type of PED
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Actually yesterday I read a line on Jordan saying he’s been good on offense and from the line but terrible on defense all season long for Dallas. I had to check whether there’s another Jordan on Mavs roster because that made no sense whatsoever.

We are two years removed from his last appearance in All-Defense team. Come on.
 
Kasper said:
Trae Young suffers from the Curry 2.0 comparison which is simply lazy and grossly inaccurate. Right now it doesn't matter since the Hawks are tanking anyway but for the future he'll need a coach who disciplines him regarding shot selection. Having the ability to score from long range and getting hot once in a while does not mean you're a great shooter, just look at chucker Jamal Crawford.

What gives me hope is his playmaking ability which might be the best for a rookie since CP3. If he adds smart shot selection to that he might become similar to Nash but he really needs to mature for that. So far his comments ("Underrated my whole life" regarding NBA2K rating and "I'll be better than Doncic") suggests me that he's massively overrating his abilities, which is worrying.
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Trae is basically how Jimmer looked like in college when he had the free reign to do whatever he want.
 
Sarni said:
Actually yesterday I read a line on Jordan saying he’s been good on offense and from the line but terrible on defense all season long for Dallas. I had to check whether there’s another Jordan on Mavs roster because that made no sense whatsoever.

We are two years removed from his last appearance in All-Defense team. Come on.
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Don't confuse his block numbers with his defense.

His defense hasn't been good ever since CP3 wasn't around to make him accountable on that end.
 
elmo said:
Don't confuse his block numbers with his defense.

His defense hasn't been good ever since CP3 wasn't around to make him accountable on that end.
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Yeah but he was rated highly on that end for a long time. It certainly wasn’t atrocious like it apparently is now.

He’s only been without CP3 for a year and a half but the drop is definitely noticeable. I don’t see how he can be considered a plus player these days, he still isn’t really all that on offense and his rebounding numbers are inflated and team rebounding does not really improve with him on the floor from what I recall.

There aren’t really that’s many centers who are good both on offense and defense but most of the high valued ones are at least very good at one end of the floor - Gobert, Towns, Jokic, Capela, Vucevic etc. Even Kantor is good at something.
 
Can't believe nobody said anything about nick nurse's jacket yet. Real MVP of raptors-dubs
 
I was wondering, why do teams extend their players who are about to become restricted free agents a year in advance while giving them max offers? Is it to motivate them or what? Even if they get max offers in open market in a year you will be able to match them and at least you get one year extra to evaluate the talent and probably most importantly you have their lower cap hold for the period of time instead of taking full amount immediately.

Let’s take Wolves and Wiggins. Nobody was going to offer him a max yet they did that a year before they had to.
 
It’s actually possible that 8th seed in the East finishes with a silly record like 36-46 and still makes it into playoffs while 9th and 10th seeds in the West will have over 0.500 records and miss out. Orlando might get to .500 but Miami and Washington probably won’t. None of the teams below them will either.
 
Sarni said:
It’s actually possible that 8th seed in the East finishes with a silly record like 36-46 and still makes it into playoffs while 9th and 10th seeds in the West will have over 0.500 records and miss out. Orlando might get to .500 but Miami and Washington probably won’t. None of the teams below them will either.
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Not that team owners in the East would ever sign off on this, but they need to just take best 16 records in the NBA for the playoffs. Travel distances which were a valid concern decades ago aren't relevant now with private jets.
 
Sarni said:
I was wondering, why do teams extend their players who are about to become restricted free agents a year in advance while giving them max offers? Is it to motivate them or what? Even if they get max offers in open market in a year you will be able to match them and at least you get one year extra to evaluate the talent and probably most importantly you have their lower cap hold for the period of time instead of taking full amount immediately.

Let’s take Wolves and Wiggins. Nobody was going to offer him a max yet they did that a year before they had to.
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The Wiggins situation is a mess, he looks a mess. The team is winning but he's probably not even worth a spot in the starting lineup at the moment. I think teams feel they're locking up their drafted superstar. It's tough especially for teams in smaller markets, you probably think it would be hard to attract superstars to the team.

I think it was on this forum where I got ridiculed for saying Ingram was a better talent than Wiggins. He just never looked like a superstar for me. Great athlete but not a great player. Instant offence type guy at best for me. Wolves are going to have to hope Thibs can get more out of him somehow.
 
adexkola said:
Not that team owners in the East would ever sign off on this, but they need to just take best 16 records in the NBA for the playoffs. Travel distances which were a valid concern decades ago aren't relevant now with private jets.
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No doubt about that. When you have Memphis, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City and New Orleans all playing in the West it makes no sense.
 
Sarni said:
I was wondering, why do teams extend their players who are about to become restricted free agents a year in advance while giving them max offers? Is it to motivate them or what? Even if they get max offers in open market in a year you will be able to match them and at least you get one year extra to evaluate the talent and probably most importantly you have their lower cap hold for the period of time instead of taking full amount immediately.

Let’s take Wolves and Wiggins. Nobody was going to offer him a max yet they did that a year before they had to.
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Creating Goodwill with the players and their agent which theoractically gives you more access to their other clients .
 
freeurmind said:
The Wiggins situation is a mess, he looks a mess. The team is winning but he's probably not even worth a spot in the starting lineup at the moment. I think teams feel they're locking up their drafted superstar. It's tough especially for teams in smaller markets, you probably think it would be hard to attract superstars to the team.

I think it was on this forum where I got ridiculed for saying Ingram was a better talent than Wiggins. He just never looked like a superstar for me. Great athlete but not a great player. Instant offence type guy at best for me. Wolves are going to have to hope Thibs can get more out of him somehow.
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Wiggins is a massive waste of talent. He has all the tools needed to be a great player but he lacks the drive needed to be one .
 
mav_9me said:


I kinda agree. I'm not opposed to 3 pointers but this Rockets style play of iso chuck it up 3 is something I hate
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It goes deeper than just the 3 ball for me. Neutering defense makes offensive accomplishments less impressive. If you are going to go hardline on the holding on the perimeter, banging off the ball then bring balance to it. Take away the illegal screens, push offs, rip throughs, start calling some of the more ridiculous carrying/traveling violations that they ignore. 135-139 scorelines with no defensive resistance(allowed) is boring, might looks good in a 4 mins highlight package but I miss proper contests with an edge.

I hope the playoffs stay closer to a more traditional basketball feel, but the regular season is an orgy of stat padding.

NFL and NBA have gone the same way with everything slanted towards scoring and a more casual appreciation of the game.
 
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