Nba 2012-13

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If I were putting together a Top 25 by position (i.e. 5 per position) I'd go with the following. And do note PF/C (like M Malone) and SG/SF (like Erving) are often interchangeable and plenty have played both, some also played SF/PF (like Bird) and PG/SG (like Robertson). I'm also not including any players with less than 10 years experience in the current generation (except James who is in his 10th year).

PG: Magic, Stockton, Thomas, Robertson, Cousy
SG: Jordan, Bryant, West, Erving, Havlicek
SF: James, Bird, Baylor, Pippen, Worthy
PF: K Malone, Duncan, M Malone, Barkley, Pettit
C: Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Russell
 
PER

1. Barkley 24.6
2. Russell 18.9
3. Havlicek 17.5

So that's a baseline. Barkley and Russell played similar positions, Barkley's eFG% was .558 and Russell's was .440. Havlicek played a lot of time at guard and had the same eFG% as Russell. Russell was a tremendous defensive player, probably the best defensive center of all time but was a liability on offense. You can say that he averaged 15 points per game but he did that by shooting 56% on free throws and 44% on field goals. Pretty bad numbers for a center. He spent most of his career playing with at least 4 HoF teammates and yet he only averaged 4.3 assists. Barkley averaged 3.9 playing with the likes of AC Green and Kevin Johnson for most of his career until he played with 34 and 35 year old Hakeem and Drexler for two years. To me, Barkley is clearly the better player.


Havlicek is comparable to Russell. Personally, I prefer Hondo but I understand people who think Russell was better. They were essentially as good as each other when they played, but Russell played 11.5 seasons and Hondo played 16.


It just drives me crazy when people put Russell above Chamberlain.
 
He's ranked so highly because the Celtics won the title basically every year he was there, and it was because they had all those HOFers around him.

He's like the Jeter of his era. A great player but vastly overrated. Or perhaps Yogi Berra would be a better comparison statistically.
 
Jeter is a good comparison. Yogi is in the running for 2nd best catcher of all time.

Not saying Berra wasn't a class player but he's vastly overrated partly due to his great relationship with the media, playing in the biggest baseball market, and the Yankees winning many titles with multiple HOFers on the team. Granted I'm saying this having never seen the guy play as he retired before my father started having sex.

It could be argued his 1951 MVP should have gone to Larry Doby but we can pretty much assume some voters didn't vote for Doby for hideous reasons, and certainly Kaline deserved the 1955 MVP. But the media liked Yogi and the Yankees were so dominant (with all those all-stars and HOFers).

I'd take at least five catchers over him (steroids or not): Bench, Campanella, Cochrane, Rodriguez, and Piazza. Some Yankees fans would even argue Munson was better. This is not diminishing his greatness I just find him a product of a dominant club and media frenzy.
 
WAR

1. Bench 72.3
2. Rodriguez 63.7
T-3. Berra 56.1
T-3. Piazza 56.1
5. Cochrane 48.9
6. Munson 43.3
7. Campanella 31.6


Campanella played only 9 full seasons and three of them (54, 56 and 57) were quite bad. Great peak but that means he is out. Bench is the clear number one. Pudge is probably number two, with Yogi just behind. Yogi was the first power hitting catcher (aside from Josh Gibson) and almost as good defensively as Pudge. Piazza is the best hitting catcher of all time but he was horrible defensively. Cochrane has a high batting average but he didn't hit for power, was merely decent defensively and didn't deserve either of his MVPs. If anyone is overrated due to playing in New York, it is Thurman Munson. To be honest, I'm surprised his WAR is even as high as it is. I don't consider him an elite catcher and I think he is a beneficiary of dying young inflating his reputation. (Much like Clemente is perceived as better than Kaline due to dying young)

Actually Mantle deserved it more than Kaline in 55. There was no year when Yogi Berra was clearly the best player in the league but there are a bunch of years when he was in the discussion. So while he doesn't deserve 3 MVPs, they aren't totally undeserved either.
 
Using a statistic that didn't exist to compare eras is pointless IMO. Cochrane's BA and OBP, statistics that have been measured for decades, were off the charts for a catcher. He's quite worthy of being considered in the top fve, even top three.

I'm not a Piazza guy by any stretch but it is difficult to look past his numbers especially when in another sentence you point out Cochrane didn't hit for power yet WAR loves guys that get on base with hits and walks which Cochrane did very well (.320 BA, .419 OBP). There wasn't much power hitting at all the in the 20s and 30s save about a dozen guys. Ruth was out-homering clubs himself.

Mantle was clearly the MVP in the true meaning of most valuable, basically ever year he was on the club until the late 60s. Arguably one of the five greatest positional players, easily top ten. Shame he wrecked his legs early in his career and couldn't stay away from the bottle - he could have broken Ruth's records.
 
Using a statistic that didn't exist to compare eras is pointless IMO. Cochrane's BA and OBP, statistics that have been measured for decades, were off the charts for a catcher. He's quite worthy of being considered in the top fve, even top three.

I'm not a Piazza guy by any stretch but it is difficult to look past his numbers especially when in another sentence you point out Cochrane didn't hit for power yet WAR loves guys that get on base with hits and walks which Cochrane did very well (.320 BA, .419 OBP). There wasn't much power hitting at all the in the 20s and 30s save about a dozen guys. Ruth was out-homering clubs himself.

Mantle was clearly the MVP in the true meaning of most valuable, basically ever year he was on the club until the late 60s. Arguably one of the five greatest positional players, easily top ten. Shame he wrecked his legs early in his career and couldn't stay away from the bottle - he could have broken Ruth's records.

Cochrane's BA and OBP are not at all off the charts for a catcher. Very good, yes but not head and shoulders above the rest.

.323/.405/.468
.320/.419/.478
.313/.382/.486
.310/.372/.452
.306/.358/.460

Those are four guys we haven't talked about yet and Mickey Cochrane. Meaning that 4 other guys not in the 7 we already talked about were not far off of Cochrane. In order, Joe Mauer, Mickey Cochrane, Bill Dickey, Bubbles Hargrave, Ernie Lombardi.

Your WAR criticism doesn't make much sense either. We are always coming up with new statistics. OPS is a relatively recent stat yet you hear even the luddites on ESPN referencing it. OBP itself was not considered to be worth much until recently, I remember the old Baseball Encyclopedia's didn't even list it! It is only in the last couple of decades that we have BABIP and FIP. Look through the old deadball era players stats. Baserunning was such a huge part of the game but they didn't even keep caught stealing stats. Ty Cobb's stats are missing a huge chunk of CS data. Quality Starts were only developed in 1985.
 
For the majority of catchers Cochrane's hitting and on-base numbers are off the charts, especially in comparison to other positions. The gap between hitting catchers and the rest of the position is probably the biggest gap between all positional players. That was my point. There's been hundreds of great hitting first basemen but far less at the catcher position.

We've hijacked an NBA thread for baseball. Get in!
 
For the majority of catchers Cochrane's hitting and on-base numbers are off the charts, especially in comparison to other positions. The gap between hitting catchers and the rest of the position is probably the biggest gap between all positional players. That was my point. There's been hundreds of great hitting first basemen but far less at the catcher position.

We've hijacked an NBA thread for baseball. Get in!

Fair enough. You are definitely right about the disparity between catchers and other players, I just don't think Cochrane is as good as Berra or Pudge.
 
It has nothing to do with 'resorting', trash talk is part of the game, and you can be sure that Melo isn't the only one who gets some thrown at him.

Niggling fouls and little pushes are also part of the game, and if that threw him off then it's Melo's problem, no KGs.

But I've never been a big fan of Melo, he can score no doubt, but that's not that special really. Plenty of guys could get 20+ a night with 20+ shots.

To be honest I hate KG, and everything he does (him and Rondo).. Both are proper cnuts. :lol:

Having said that, trash talk being "part of the game" doesn't mean IMO (which I'm sure differs from yours) that he can say anything.. Do you think it's right that players say racist remarks during the game? Trash talk at its best is when it's about how the other guy plays, or about the game itself.

Anyway, about Melo, Melo is a scorer. Not many guys in the league can score 29 points a game by taking the 21 shots he takes. He doesn't only hit open shots or shots that are easy to make for any other player.. He doesn't even need the offense to run for him to score. Just give him the ball and watch him score.. In that category he's kind of like Bryant, although I have to say Bryant has been better this season. There aren't many players in the league who can do that IMO.
 
Garnett is a cnut, a giant cnut.

He takes trash talking too far when he starts making comments about a person's wife or whether someone is 'cancerous' to their team when that player is suffering from a form of illness. Then there's punching players and getting away with it. Great player, but gigantic cnut.
 
How did Sarcemento get the Kings in the first place?

It was such a small market and they left a good bit of history in Kansas City granted the club had relocated twice before.


The market isn't that small, it's 20th biggest in the NBA. Not one of the biggest, but definitely a big enough market to sustain an NBA team, as shown by the longest sell-out streak in NBA history. Reports suggest that a fee has been agreed with Hansen and his partners now, and that it's signed, but the deal can't go through unless the NBA approves it. The only hope now is that Mayor Johnson (who has been heroic in his attempts to keep the Kings in Sacramento) can get local buyers to make a competitive bid. In such a case, it's very hard to see Stern allowing the Kings to be sold to Hansen and the Kings would remain in Sacramento. Hopefully this is the outcome. Would be a great shame if they moved.
 
When he entered the game against the Spurs, my reaction was 'who the feck is this guy?' But now it is clear, Earl Clark is the second coming of Magic Johnson and the saviour of the Lakers season.

Good game with OKC, we'll probably lose but there is a determination today (and for half the game with San Antonio) that was missing before.
 
To be honest I hate KG, and everything he does (him and Rondo).. Both are proper cnuts. :lol:

Having said that, trash talk being "part of the game" doesn't mean IMO (which I'm sure differs from yours) that he can say anything.. Do you think it's right that players say racist remarks during the game? Trash talk at its best is when it's about how the other guy plays, or about the game itself.

Anyway, about Melo, Melo is a scorer. Not many guys in the league can score 29 points a game by taking the 21 shots he takes. He doesn't only hit open shots or shots that are easy to make for any other player.. He doesn't even need the offense to run for him to score. Just give him the ball and watch him score.. In that category he's kind of like Bryant, although I have to say Bryant has been better this season. There aren't many players in the league who can do that IMO.

I'm not a fan of 1-on-1 basketball, to start. Melo is the sort of player that you say the ball sticks to, as in the ball movement stops when the ball hits his hands. He'd rather take a fade away 19 footer than try to pass the ball around to try to get someone a layup.

Last season he was destructive to the Knick's offense, the picks and screens stopped and it was all long jump shots from Melo and Amare. There was no doubt the team was better without those two, when Lin and Chandler were the first two options.

The Knicks deserve a lot of credit for what they've done so far this season, and the Heat have shown you can win without ball movement, so it's definitely down to personal preference. I can't help think, though, that a truly unselfish team will always beat a team of equal quality that plays 1-on-1 ball.

I would say that racism is certainly not 'trash talk', but I'm sure there are some very inappropriate things said in a game. I doubt moms and girlfriends/wives/ex-wives are exempt. As a fan of what one might call 'gamesmanship', I admire Garnett's success in throwing Melo off his game, if indeed it played any part in his off shooting night.
 
I'm not a fan of 1-on-1 basketball, to start. Melo is the sort of player that you say the ball sticks to, as in the ball movement stops when the ball hits his hands. He'd rather take a fade away 19 footer than try to pass the ball around to try to get someone a layup.

Last season he was destructive to the Knick's offense, the picks and screens stopped and it was all long jump shots from Melo and Amare. There was no doubt the team was better without those two, when Lin and Chandler were the first two options.

The Knicks deserve a lot of credit for what they've done so far this season, and the Heat have shown you can win without ball movement, so it's definitely down to personal preference. I can't help think, though, that a truly unselfish team will always beat a team of equal quality that plays 1-on-1 ball.

Totally agree with you there.. And to be honest Melo is not my cup of tea either.. He's a very good player, but he won't win a championship, I think, because of that..

I can still see them do well in the regular season though, and a big part of that has to be down to him..
 
:lol: Chalmers is really upset he missed that three at the buzzer against Portland the other night..

Can't trade any of those 10 now for that one though... :(
 
The market isn't that small, it's 20th biggest in the NBA. Not one of the biggest, but definitely a big enough market to sustain an NBA team, as shown by the longest sell-out streak in NBA history. Reports suggest that a fee has been agreed with Hansen and his partners now, and that it's signed, but the deal can't go through unless the NBA approves it. The only hope now is that Mayor Johnson (who has been heroic in his attempts to keep the Kings in Sacramento) can get local buyers to make a competitive bid. In such a case, it's very hard to see Stern allowing the Kings to be sold to Hansen and the Kings would remain in Sacramento. Hopefully this is the outcome. Would be a great shame if they moved.

It was one of the smallest back in the early 80s when the club relocated (there were only 23 clubs then).
 
Knicks owner James Dolan had employees record Carmelo Anthony’s in-game talk, according to report

Prior to a Sunday afternoon win over the visiting New Orleans Hornets, the New York Knicks were in the midst of a bad stretch, having lost three straight games, four of their last six and six of their last nine since Christmas Day. With the Knicks struggling and looking less like a potential championship-contending unit than a banged-up, gassed and frazzled collection of individuals, league observers have been keeping a close eye on the Knicks, and especially star forward Carmelo Anthony — and one observer, in particular, sounds like he's keeping a closer eye than most.

New York Knicks owner James Dolan reportedly "made a few MSG Network employees perform a surreptitious duty" during the Knicks' Friday night loss to the Chicago Bulls at Madison Square Garden, according to Dave D'Alessandro of the Newark Star-Ledger:

Two audio technicians were stationed at two corners of the court — one a few feet just behind the Knicks bench, the other diagonally opposite — and they were holding those umbrella-shaped contraptions known as parabola microphones, which fed the audio into a *** recorder on the truck on the loading dock.

These guys had one directive from Dolan: Record every syllable Carmelo Anthony utters and absorbs while he’s on the court and on the bench, the Madison Square Garden CEO ordered them, and send the tape directly to me.

The purpose of this command was unclear, but Dolan must have had a good reason to eavesdrop on Melo’s interactions. Was it to luxuriate in the poetic musings of his most valuable player, even though he is far from his most voluble player? Was it a teaching tool, so his coaches could school Melo on the potential hazards of courtside misconduct?

Or perhaps it was done to furnish proof to the NBA that his meal ticket is now a verbal target, particularly with notorious motormouths such as Joakim Noah and Nate Robinson in town that night for a full-court yakfest?

The "surreptitious" taping — which makes this sound like something out of "All the President's Men," which would seem pretty far-fetched if not for the fact that the Knicks have been besieged by seemingly endless in-house drama and conflict for most of the past 13 years or so — allegedly came four days after Anthony engaged in some serious on-court trash talk with Kevin Garnett during the fourth quarter of a heated game between the Knicks and Boston Celtics.

A clearly furious Anthony tried to take over the game and failed, shooting just 2 for 10 down the stretch and helping the Celtics capture a 102-96 road win over their Atlantic Division rivals. Anthony, still incensed after the final buzzer, waited outside the Celtics' team bus to confront Garnett after the game; that confrontation didn't amount to much in the moment, but it did lead to a one-game suspension for the Knicks' top scorer, sidelining him for a Thursday night contest against the Indiana Pacers that New York lost due largely to a dreadful inability to score the basketball. Add on the Friday night loss to Chicago in which the Knicks never led and trailed by 22 entering the fourth quarter, thanks in part to Anthony getting off an ice-cold start while Bulls counterpart Luol Deng filled it up early, and you've got a pretty rough patch, Melo-wise. This doesn't seem likely to help matters much.

Mics reportedly picked up everything Anthony said and heard on Friday. (Anthony Gruppuso-USA TODAY Sports Imag …The initial reaction to D'Alessandro's report from most corners — well, beyond just "secretly taping your star player, or anybody, for that matter, is super creepy" — has been to note that this won't exactly do wonders for Melo's reputation, which was shaken a bit when Garnett's tactics made it blatantly obvious that, MVP-caliber early-season performance aside, you can rattle Anthony and get him off his game.

As Tom Ley wrote at Deadspin, the prospect of Dolan calling for this as a means of keeping a closer eye on his star makes Melo look like "a hothead who needs to be under the constant, direct supervision of his employer," while the (more unlikely) prospect of it being done with Anthony's knowledge makes him seem like "an oversensitive baby who needs to tattle about all of the mean things that get said to him." And if, as D'Alessandro posits, the intended endgame is to point out to the NBA's disciplinary czars just how nasty opponents are being to Anthony, that seems like an approach unlikely to bear any fruit; it's not like refs are suddenly going to start legislating verbal taunts differently just to spare the Knicks' main star. So, as has often tended to be the case with Dolan's decisions, we're left wondering what the point of the alleged action is, and how he thought it might be helpful.

One possible starting point could have been raised by Bob Raissman of the New York Daily News last Thursday, who considered an element of Anthony's one-game suspension that might've made Dolan even madder than the penalty itself:

Dolan, the Cablevision boss, must be seething that his two cable rivals, companies he has done business battle with, cold busted his main man Anthony by providing all the video evidence the NBA needed to suspend him for Thursday night’s game with Indiana. [...]

How did the NBA know Anthony “attempted to engage” Garnett after the game? The first piece of evidence was provided by the camera of Comcast SportsNet New England, covering the Celtics. The camera was near a ramp in the bowels of the Garden, where Boston’s bus was parked. The video showed Anthony lingering, waiting to confront Garnett.

On Wednesday, Time Warner-owned TMZ aired video, shot by an operative in the same area, of Anthony following after Garnett and the two exchanging words, which were barely audible. While the video was not exactly HD-quality, it painted an ugly picture of life outside the NBA bus, one that must have been cringe-inducing to David Stern.

Dolan, too. His skin was crawling for a different reason. These outlets came strolling into his house, the refurbished Garden, and had cameras in the right place at exactly the right time, providing enough video to thoroughly embarrass his organization and get Anthony suspended. It’s one thing to be busted, but when it’s done by the competition — ouch.

So, the theory would go, after watching two competitors use their recording equipment to nail Anthony and the Knicks, maybe Dolan decided to use his in an effort to protect his player and team should some controversy emerge — which wasn't exactly out of the question, considering the last time Chicago and New York played at the Garden, Anthony was ejected (as was coach Mike Woodson, center Tyson Chandler and the Bulls' Noah) from a heated, physical, foul-and-trash-talk filled game. It seems weird and kind of nonsensical, but so does most of the rest of what's been raised in this situation; maybe it makes as much sense as anything else.

As it turned out, the most significant "trash talk" exchanged during the Bulls' 108-101 win at MSG on Friday passed between Knicks forward Steve Novak and Bulls guard Robinson. After making jumpshots on Friday, the diminutive former Knick mimicked the motion of strapping on a championship belt — popularized by Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and his State Farm Insurance commercials — that Novak has used over the past couple of seasons to celebrate made 3-point shots. After the loss, Novak referred to the 5-foot-9-inch Robinson as "Little Nathan" and said the imitation "warms my heart." (Ben Golliver's got the blow-by-blow on the two backups' belt bickering at SI.com's The Point Forward.)

Anthony scored 27 points — albeit on 25 field-goal attempts, in continuation of a trend that's seen Anthony's shot-jacking rise and scoring efficiency slide a bit of late — and grabbed seven rebounds in the Sunday matinee win over the Hornets to help get New York back on the winning track before a trip across the pond to London, where the Knicks will play the Detroit Pistons on Thursday in the third regular-season NBA game ever to be played in Europe. I'm not entirely sure how the U.K.'s statute governing the acceptable use of surveillance technology differs from our own, but just in case, Jimmy D. might want to cool it on the sneak-tip recording on Thursday; we wouldn't want an international incident on our hands, now would we?
 
PER

1. Barkley 24.6
2. Russell 18.9
3. Havlicek 17.5

So that's a baseline. Barkley and Russell played similar positions, Barkley's eFG% was .558 and Russell's was .440. Havlicek played a lot of time at guard and had the same eFG% as Russell. Russell was a tremendous defensive player, probably the best defensive center of all time but was a liability on offense. You can say that he averaged 15 points per game but he did that by shooting 56% on free throws and 44% on field goals. Pretty bad numbers for a center. He spent most of his career playing with at least 4 HoF teammates and yet he only averaged 4.3 assists. Barkley averaged 3.9 playing with the likes of AC Green and Kevin Johnson for most of his career until he played with 34 and 35 year old Hakeem and Drexler for two years. To me, Barkley is clearly the better player.


Havlicek is comparable to Russell. Personally, I prefer Hondo but I understand people who think Russell was better. They were essentially as good as each other when they played, but Russell played 11.5 seasons and Hondo played 16.


It just drives me crazy when people put Russell above Chamberlain.

Again, let me just say that I didn't watch these guys, obviously. I'm going nearly completely on what other basketball players say about the older stars. I can't imagine Charles Barkley saying he's better than Russell.

Some people would certainly say Chamberlain is better, and I would have agreed if I was only looking at stats.

Also, I think Russell is the greatest American champion in the major sports (american football, baseball and basketball), with his 11 titles. So that gives him extra stature in the stakes. And you know how we Yanks love a winner, if you don't win you're nobody, even if you have great stats. For example, I think people would be largely dismissive of Big O had be not won that 1 Championship in Milwaukee.

I liked your post, though, interesting food for thought.
 
Again, let me just say that I didn't watch these guys, obviously. I'm going nearly completely on what other basketball players say about the older stars. I can't imagine Charles Barkley saying he's better than Russell.

Some people would certainly say Chamberlain is better, and I would have agreed if I was only looking at stats.

Also, I think Russell is the greatest American champion in the major sports (american football, baseball and basketball), with his 11 titles. So that gives him extra stature in the stakes. And you know how we Yanks love a winner, if you don't win you're nobody, even if you have great stats. For example, I think people would be largely dismissive of Big O had be not won that 1 Championship in Milwaukee.

I liked your post, though, interesting food for thought.

Maybe they would be dismissive of Oscar, but they'd be wrong. As a Yank myself, I do know how winning titles is perceived as the most important thing. As a statistically-inclined sports fan, I think that is often to the detriment of accurate assessments.

Personally, I think Chamberlain is the second best player of all time and he has an argument for best. He was incredible. Here's some info about Wilt.

-Head to head against Russell, Wilt averaged 29 ppg and 29 rpg, Russell averaged 14 and 24. Wilt had a 55 rebound game against Russell and scored more than 50 against Russell 7 times

-Wilt averaged 50 ppg and 25 rpg in a season...and lost the MVP to Russell who averaged 19 and 24

-Wilt is the only center to lead the league in assists

-Scored 100 points in a game

-Wilt led his team to a 33 game win streak

-Chamberlain never fouled out of a game

-He averaged 46 mpg for his entire career

-At age 35 and 36, he shot 65 and 77% from the floor

-Ran the 100 yard dash in 10.9 seconds

-After his junior year he went pro but NBA rules wouldn't accept him until his class graduated so he played with the Harlem Globetrotters...at point guard
 
Lakers on a winning streak!

Howard's been very good since returning from his injury, seems more focused than before. Will be interesting what happens when Gasol returns and whether they start him or continue with Clark at 4 and Howard the sole big man.
 
I'm not a fan of 1-on-1 basketball, to start. Melo is the sort of player that you say the ball sticks to, as in the ball movement stops when the ball hits his hands. He'd rather take a fade away 19 footer than try to pass the ball around to try to get someone a layup.

Last season he was destructive to the Knick's offense, the picks and screens stopped and it was all long jump shots from Melo and Amare. There was no doubt the team was better without those two, when Lin and Chandler were the first two options.

The Knicks deserve a lot of credit for what they've done so far this season, and the Heat have shown you can win without ball movement, so it's definitely down to personal preference. I can't help think, though, that a truly unselfish team will always beat a team of equal quality that plays 1-on-1 ball.

I would say that racism is certainly not 'trash talk', but I'm sure there are some very inappropriate things said in a game. I doubt moms and girlfriends/wives/ex-wives are exempt. As a fan of what one might call 'gamesmanship', I admire Garnett's success in throwing Melo off his game, if indeed it played any part in his off shooting night.

Seriously? I mean, if that's how your argument as to why Melo's not good enough starts then how do you expect to be taken seriously?

How many times have you actually seen the Knicks play this season? Because I've seen all but 1 game, and I can tell you that's bullshit.

Yes, he's going to take a tough shot sometimes, but that's what every star player does. And it's really amazing he's still being labeled as a selfish player when everyone of his team-mates (including his olympic team-mates) state the complete opposite.

If you were paying any attention (atleast this season, not even going to go into previous ones because we'd be here too long) you'd realize how many times Carmelo tries to get others going, give them open shots, etc.
He is the greatest scorer in the game, rivaled only by Kobe, Durant and at the moment to a lesser extent James.

Oh and spare me the Lin-sanity talks, it's obvious now that was just a good run of form that can happen to anybody, just blown up by the media to make it look like it's some kind of fairytale. If you actually believe the Knicks would be better off without Melo and with Lin there, then I don't know why I even bother replying to you on this subject.


Totally agree with you there.. And to be honest Melo is not my cup of tea either.. He's a very good player, but he won't win a championship, I think, because of that..

I can still see them do well in the regular season though, and a big part of that has to be down to him..
He's not just a very good player, he's one of the best in the world, rightfully getting acknowledgment by more people (those who regularly watch games).

And why couldn't he win a championship?
I mean, I'm hardly saying the Knicks are favorites, but why not?
He's playing out of his mind right now, he's actually been the Knicks' most consistent (not the best (Chandler) but the most consistant, yes) defender, he's really turned it around on that end of the floor, and that's what you need from your main player.

What a lot of people don't take into account is that the Knicks have been absolutely battered by injuries.

Melo missed 6 or 7 games, Felton's been out for over a month, Sheed has missed 15 straight I believe, Stat came back after New Year and is still getting the feel for things, Shumpert has yet to step foot on the court (can't wait to finally see him play tonight), Kidd and Camby have both also missed a good number of games inbetween them.

I mean apart from Minnesotta's early problems the Knicks are way worse in that department than any team, when atleast Shump and Felton get back we'll see a whole new Knicks' team, because then they'll actualy have guards that can run at their disposal apart from JR.
 
Knicks-Pistons in London.

Very good turnout, I think like the NFL international games this too will become a yearly event.
 
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