Nani will reignite our charge to the title
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'Successful crosses' - You cant judge it on Nani, if Rooney or Berbatov didnt attack the ball that well. Owen would have definitely.
All I know is when Nani gets the ball, I am certain he is going to whip in a very dangerous ball.
Valencia tends to pick out his man.
I like both styles.
All I know is when Nani gets the ball, I am certain he is going to whip in a very dangerous ball.
Valencia tends to pick out his man.
I like both styles.
Not a bad summary that.
Yeah and I agree with it, Valencia impressed me also more than Nani, but it has nothing to do with whether Nani did nothing with the ball or not
I think what Nani could learn from Valencia is to concentrate on getting a cross in earlier. Nani likes to feign a cross with his left, and pull it back on his right, which can be very useful if you have midfielders who come running in to the box ala Scholesy of old. Nani has done so to great effect before, like when Fletcher got on the end of two Nani crosses against Arsenal in the 4-1 game.
But in games like yesterday I think crosses have got to come in earlier to take advantage of the runs of our strikers. If he stops and pulls it back, our strikers become stationary, not quite knowing where to run or what to do, and the cross ends up either being headed away by a defender or being headed with little force by a stationary striker.
But in games like yesterday I think crosses have got to come in earlier to take advantage of the runs of our strikers. If he stops and pulls it back, our strikers become stationary, not quite knowing where to run or what to do, and the cross ends up either being headed away by a defender or being headed with little force by a stationary striker.
Yea. He could have actually scored! I am surprised though with how much wing play we actually play considering we don't have great headers of the ball. You need to have supremely accurate crosses if you haven't got great headers of the ball.
I was wondering the same thing! Awesome looking word.
You are not using it? Learnt it at school at some point, means the same as to be contradictory if I'm correct ^^
I'm not trying to put you down NameChanged, but as for considering whether a cross or not is good then the better thing is always to watch the match, not some stats.
They just don't tell the picture. Fex if Valencia puts in a perfect ball to a Rooney in stride, and Rooney falls before he reaches the silverplated ball, that cross would probably show as a "bad cross", when it obviously isn't.
Both Nani and Valencia had some good balls in yesterday. From what I remember of the game Valencia had more good ones and more bad ones, because he saw more of the ball.
They just don't tell the picture. Fex if Valencia puts in a perfect ball to a Rooney in stride, and Rooney falls before he reaches the silverplated ball, that cross would probably show as a "bad cross", when it obviously isn't.
Both Nani and Valencia had some good balls in yesterday. From what I remember of the game Valencia had more good ones and more bad ones, because he saw more of the ball.
Yea. And Pogue pointed out that Nani did have one good cross in particular, which I accepted. So perhaps my statement that Nani did nothing really with the ball was a bit harsh. But still, one good cross and one good overhead does not make it a good performance. It was not a good performances. But I will reiterate again, it was not a bad performance and I never ever said that it was.
Yeah, he hit a whipped cross between their defence and keeper, but the defender got a toe to it, which is probably why it shows up as a unsuccessful cross. Good ball that, the kind I'd like to see more of. Especially, as you said, with our lack of height/good headers of the ball.
That's all fair enough and I agree.
I only use the stats the back up and argument though, I don't use them to make up my argument. I'd only comment if I watched the match!
Sorry, I remember that cross now that you have described it! That was a good cross.
That's a good point. I think Owen could score more goals if Nani was in the team. Owen does attack crosses better than most even though he is small, and if Nani could put in some nice whipped crosses, Owen would score.
Whatever way you want to spin it Valencia looks like money well spent and Nani looks like he is a dead man walking. I doubt he will be a United player at the beginning of next season.
OK this looks more like it and tbh I like our debates ^^ of course you aren't a bad poster, you bring up your points and try to back them up, but for yesterday's game it was hard for me to agree with them as he really did better than he used to this season and probably because I still want to see a Nani-Valencia wing combination for the future
Bit harsh, Wibble. We've seen what he can do when he's confident and getting games. Valencia is very consistent and an excellent player. I'm very pleased with him. But in some games I believe we need the flair and unpredictability that Nani can give us. He's taken some positive strides today, and I hope he can go on to play more and better and produce some of the form he showed in his first season.
A strike like the one he produced at Boro that season for example
I'll take one of those vs City!I never disagreed though. I said Nani was better than he normally is, but considering he has been poor in general that was not hard! It was encouraging and he has the potential to be a very good winger. I simply wasn't going to overhype a performance yesterday that although was not bad at all, wasn't that good either. It was what it was.
Bit harsh, Wibble. We've seen what he can do when he's confident and getting games. Valencia is very consistent and an excellent player. I'm very pleased with him. But in some games I believe we need the flair and unpredictability that Nani can give us. He's taken some positive strides today, and I hope he can go on to play more and better and produce some of the form he showed in his first season.
A strike like the one he produced at Boro that season for example
Valencia took a bit of time to bed in and Fergie has persevered with him. We're seeing the benefit of that now. Nani's confidence is, I suspect, pretty low. He needs games and he needs encouragement.
Well but this "he did nothing with the ball" and "I don't think that performance will be near enough to cement a place in the team." was harsh I thought.
Like you said, it was an average performance and only really VDS and Valencia left the match and could see themself as having had a good match. The rest were average and you could argue all day who was better out of the rest but it's irrelevant.
Bit harsh, Wibble. We've seen what he can do when he's confident and getting games. Valencia is very consistent and an excellent player. I'm very pleased with him. But in some games I believe we need the flair and unpredictability that Nani can give us. He's taken some positive strides today, and I hope he can go on to play more and better and produce some of the form he showed in his first season.
A strike like the one he produced at Boro that season for example
I thought that he was utter rubbish today and I just have no confidence in him. You could watch a younger Ronaldo and see where the improvement could come from, not that anyone expect him to reach the heights that he did, but I have no such confidence in Nani. I hope I'm wrong. And it wouldn't be the first time.
Its funny, I like Nani and try to defend him, and after yesterday's match and the reaction he was getting from the fans in the crowd near me I was expecting him to be slated on here as usual. I thought I'd come on here and defend him and point out his positives but I see hes being touted as a MOM and thats just taking it to farHe gave the ball away A LOT yesterday.
Nani made 15 unsuccessful passes yesterday. Valencia made 17.
Valencia also made more accurate passes one of which was an assist. But the point remains that he did also give the ball away a bit more often than Nani on the day. Which is uncharacteristic of Valencia. Those 2 gave the ball away the most but were also clearly our best players on the day.
He played alot better than he has done in his previous games this season.
Yes he did give the ball away a few times and i noticed he was also dwelling on the ball quite alot but a run of games for the lad will do his confidence the world of good and we'll maybe see some of the Nani from our double winning season.
Yes he did give the ball away a few times and i noticed he was also dwelling on the ball quite alot but a run of games for the lad will do his confidence the world of good and we'll maybe see some of the Nani from our double winning season.
As for Nani's crossing, there was the great left footed ball that Rooney should have scored from and one that Rooney headed over the bar. Those are the two I can remember off my head. And if you look at the chalkboard there are 5 succesful crosses from the left, 3 to Rooney, 1 Berbatov and 1 to Evans. You have to remember that Nani comes inside a lot onto his right foot and not all his crosses will therefore be from outside the box. He also had the move where he popped up on the right and chipped it over to Rooney. Once again that goes down as a successful cross on the chalkboard. So thats 6. Valencia has 10 successful crosses on the chalkboard, including his successful pullback passes I believe.
I see discussion of who did better between Valencia/Nani still continuing ... in a way a good thing, that both our wingers are getting crosses in and there is clear evidence of both getting dangerous balls into the box is a good thing. Hopefully that will continue.
I watched the match again a bit last night and noticed one thing that Nani did that helps improve our game which is to come into the middle. There were a couple times he popped up all the way on the right side of the box - this I think is a good thing, it gives us something different as it makes it harder for defense to keep track of our players.
If both Nani and Valencia continue like they did yesterday with improvements by both, then we should have a very good balanced threat coming from the wings.
I watched the match again a bit last night and noticed one thing that Nani did that helps improve our game which is to come into the middle. There were a couple times he popped up all the way on the right side of the box - this I think is a good thing, it gives us something different as it makes it harder for defense to keep track of our players.
If both Nani and Valencia continue like they did yesterday with improvements by both, then we should have a very good balanced threat coming from the wings.
I don't care what anyone says, Nani on the left is a hell of a lot more effective then Park. He needs a run of games and confidence from the players around him and the manager and I'm sure we'll see a lot better production, but the talent is undoubtedly there. I don't know how much of a future Nani has at the club but it would be madness to see him leave in this window when we probably have nobody else come in for him. Let him play out the rest of the season, go to the WC and perform there for his country. It will help boost his value and by then we'll have a better picture of our finances and more options of who to bring in.
Should be playing far more than he does. When he gets it, he doesn't always do something with it, but there's magic in them there boots - without question.
This is very much true, but I think we just have to suck it in and accept that we need Nani this season and support him whilst we can.
Then get rid in the summer.
I think a reason people dont like him is he just doesnt seem very likeable on the pitch.
Doesn't smile, rolls around, argues with the opposition players off the ball, delays passes to the likes of Rooney who get annoyed...Just not a team player at times.
I find it very hard to criticise his ability, he is technically superb and so I am one of his biggest fans, and even in most of his performances I think he has done well. But if he does go, I think the list above, will be why.
Doesn't smile, rolls around, argues with the opposition players off the ball, delays passes to the likes of Rooney who get annoyed...Just not a team player at times.
I find it very hard to criticise his ability, he is technically superb and so I am one of his biggest fans, and even in most of his performances I think he has done well. But if he does go, I think the list above, will be why.
evasion of straightforward action or clear-cut statement or desertion of a cause, position, party, or faith
This for me.
i thought nani's performance was a 6 but he should get a few more games - with him left and valencia right it gives us a more creative attack IMO
Nani vs Burnley, still no Berba or Rooney ones...!
Percentage wise, Valencia's stats were far better.
To be fair to both the wingers, those stats also include crosses. Obviously crossing the ball to a teammate is a hell of a lot harder than passing it a few yards, so the stats for wingers are usually going to be a lot less. The majority of times that Valencia gave the ball away would have been down to unsuccessful crosses.
evasion of straightforward action or clear-cut statement or desertion of a cause, position, party, or faith
Thanks Chief!
And at the same time Valencia tends to make more short, quick passes than Nani does. Easy ones if you will, but ones that keep the ball moving. Nani tends to try and create things with his passes more often. So yet another thing to try and factor into those numbers. Really what it comes down to is both wingers played about as well as each other, but have a different game. Maybe you like Nani's game more than Valencia's or vice versa, but there was much in it either way.
Nani's confidence looks pretty shot. For someone with his pace and ability, he seems to only job with the ball. He never opens his legs up and gets at the full-back, which if he had a go at on Saturday would've got results, or at least stretched Burnely a bit. For me, he's not being adventurous and not taking enough risks in the final third. He got the room, but he just never dashes forward to create something, he'll often turn inside and give it easy. Shame.
I'm not sure what is more infuriating...Nani not grabbing his big chance this season or Fergie freezing him out despite there isn't anybody better in his position?
He has ability and its our better option on the left wing.
We better stick with him for the rest of the season.
We better stick with him for the rest of the season.
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