If they lack match fitness then surely it would have been better to play them with the game already over anyway? It would make them sharper for the Liverpool game.
Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez
- Thread starter Walrus
- Start date
If they lack match fitness then surely it would have been better to play them with the game already over anyway? It would make them sharper for the Liverpool game.
Welbeck is on form always according to Caf. It's a lost cause if you try to change that opinion.
We should have started with:
--------Rooney
Nani Kagawa Valencia
The formation we started was not balanced enough and to attacking. Young, Welbeck and Valencia is lacking the ability and technique to play against a team of City's quality.
--------Rooney
Nani Kagawa Valencia
The formation we started was not balanced enough and to attacking. Young, Welbeck and Valencia is lacking the ability and technique to play against a team of City's quality.
Did you not see the CL game mid week? Kagawa pushed off the ball repeatedly and looked unfit.
No way he was starting.
Don't know what the deal with Nani is but it's the same as last year, isn't it?
Kagawa isn't fit to be fair, can't wait to see him in the side but he doesnt look ready to me.
We've given him a five-year deal since then. Leaving him out entirely against Palace and then leaving him on the bench today is baffling after that.
Not the case. Kagawa struggles vs Leverkusen, he'd have struggled today too. Nobody could have predicted we'd defend as we did, Nani and Kagawa would have been on late on if we were still in it.
Welbeck in good form 
Yeah. You get stuck with a fecking tag line and chastised if you argue differently.
In recent seasons there has been an increased obsession in this League of assessing attacking players by using their defensive abilities. I believe that given Valencia and Young are seen as our defensively best attackers, they are often picked over defensively weaker ones. Despite them being in the team to do the fecking opposite.
Berbatov was a striker and even he was not exempt for being judged based on his defensive contribution often enough.
Berbatov was a striker and even he was not exempt for being judged based on his defensive contribution often enough.
Kagawa didnt struggle vs Leverkusen at all. He faded in the 2nd half. If he isnt match fit, he should have come on late in the game. Same for Nani.
The game was dead.
I think Kagawa could have given us a good hour, he had been suffering from flu so we don't know if that impacted his stamina but I think after a full weeks training and with the mins he got he could have at least given a good half and probably an hour. But even if he didn't play I think it was a mistake going so weak in attack. Welbeck is a nice link up player but he's not a real goalscorer yet and he's unlikely to create much. Valencia and Young have shown again and again against well organised teams they struggle and so when lacking RVPs ability to get a goal from nothing we needed more cutting edge or really should have committed to playing on the counter with 5 in the middle.
We'll never know tbh but personally I don't think we could have done much worse then that.
We'll never know tbh but personally I don't think we could have done much worse then that.
I can understand Kagawa not starting as he isnt fit, and as discussed in other threads hasn't really shown that he should be in there over the others, but I cant understand why Nani hasnt played.
Most will know I dont think Nani is a world beater, but he is at least better than whats being played right now, and Hernandez is always capable of something, and is a genuinely likable person so it seems a bit of a shame. Still maybe you'll start with Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez vs Liverpool.
Most will know I dont think Nani is a world beater, but he is at least better than whats being played right now, and Hernandez is always capable of something, and is a genuinely likable person so it seems a bit of a shame. Still maybe you'll start with Nani, Kagawa and Hernandez vs Liverpool.
Yeah agree he should have come on as a sub. He shoudn't have started though so Moyes did nothing wrong there, but a few are still slagging him off for it.
Yep, I can understand Kagawa not starting today, totally. Nani should have started ahead of Young though.
Kagawa hasn't looked all that in the games he has played a part in. Sorry for going against the caf opinion. No way should he be considered an automatic starter. Rooney is better than him down the middle and he isn't very good coming off the left. Him or Nani should have started today though, we had zero creativity in the three behind the striker. Or maybe Hernandez should have started and Rooney should have played as a second striker. We only really had one person who could have scored a goal and City shut off all supplies to him.
He's by far he most overrated player on here because he's a homegrown player. Been saying it for a while now that I don't think he'll ever be good enough to become clearly first choice for a team like united. He's not a good enough striker to replace someone like van Persie or Rooney, and he's not a good enough winger to make that position his own either. I think he'll have to settle as a squad player filling in around the team because he just lacks some very key parts to his game.
Aye, no idea what is going on with Nani. He's not even been getting subbed on bar at Anfield, makes no sense.
To be fair, a half fit Nani should be starting in front of a fully fit Young
We should at least start with something completely different than what we did in the last Liverpool outing.
I've said before why Young and Valencia can't both start. They're both too one dimensional. It's too easy to defend against, especially with little help coming from the right back.
Everyone is puzzled by the lack of substitutions in the first half. I don't think anyone has an answer. Maybe Moyes does. But he threw in the towel with 40 minutes left which is not cool.
So much lack of movement in recent PL games and Hernandez is still on the bench. He can be such a game changer. A blind and deaf man with no access to braille would have put him on.
I think we should start playing these 3 actual footballers instead of the athletes Moyes prefers to pick.
This is the crux of the whole situation with Moyes. He seems to be happy playing players that he probably coveted at Everton instead of actual top footballers .
As a proud Scotsmen, Moyes is giving Rooney, Welbeck and Young playing time together
Why is Welbeck rated by many on here? Compare his body of work to Hernandez and tell me why he starts ahead of him
I'm not even sure what this means. Makes no sense. He's playing Young because he wanted to sign him for Everton?
If it was an issue of match fitness I still think they would have done better than the ones that played today.
He's born in manchester, that's why. Hernandez is a much better striker then welbeck is. It isn't close IMO.
Can't understand the team selections, but to be fair it's not as if I always understood SAF's teams either.
What I do find strange though is the attitude towards these big matches. We should've fecking had a go at both Liverpool and Chelsea. Forget about City, they mauled us today, it was hopefully an outlier in terms of performance, but why didn't we throw the kitchen sink at Liverpool and Chelsea?
What I do find strange though is the attitude towards these big matches. We should've fecking had a go at both Liverpool and Chelsea. Forget about City, they mauled us today, it was hopefully an outlier in terms of performance, but why didn't we throw the kitchen sink at Liverpool and Chelsea?
Kagawa hasn't done anything to deserve a place to start.. Starting to look like a miss but he's only 23...
I think in fairness we lacked the players who could take the game to them. Nani was clearly lacking sharpness when he came on against Liverpool and wasn't available against Chelsea. Rooney was missing against Liverpool as well and we clearly didn't think Kagawa was fit enough for those games and I guess the Beyer Lev games support that somewhat. I think we've been overly cautious in these big games and I'm not sure if we've made the best use of the squad so that Moyes can get whatever level of detail he needs on them to play them, but we have certainly been unlucky in injuries to our most creative players at the same time that our other two senior attackers are continuing to on average under-perform.
I like Kagawa because when hes on the ball he threatens to make a chance and has shown that he can finish. I think many are hoping he ends up like our version of Silva or Mata but im not setting my sights that high but in the rough ball park which is exactly the type of player we are lacking
Well even when Nani came on against Liverpool he at least troubled them somewhat with his shooting from distance. Our other attackers bar Hernandez who found RvP with a clever through ball did feck all.
And okay, I might buy into playing Young and Valencia due to their work rate defensively, but then we just can't play a midfield two of Carrick and Fellaini. We looked absolutely flat both offensively and defensively as we couldn't run in midfield, and due to Valencia/Young being our attackers we lacked a threat going forward from wide positions.
Oh no I agree completely that Nani/Kagawa are better options, I just think up until today we lacked the options. Today I thought it was a mistake not bringing in at least one off Hernandez/Nani/Kagawa in RVP's absence. As you said Fellaini and Carrick isn't really a box to box midfield but it doesn't need to be if the attackers ahead of it are playing well and for me that requires them to show more variety in attack, moving between the lines etc than we're getting.
While I agree our wingers were atrocious and a big part of why we lost (Valencia was basically completely at fault for the first goal) I don't think we're ever going to look more than okay/good-ish if Carrick/Fellaini is our first choice options in midfield against any decent opposition. Fellaini, when played in cm is basically an even less mobile Carrick, trying to do some of the things Carrick does, only ending up doing them far worse than Carrick.
Works hard. Presses the opposition. Or something.
I don't think it would be an issue if you have a at least 2 of RVP, Hernandez, Rooney, Nani and Kagawa playing, preferably 3, they have either the movement, inidivudal ability and link up to work of that base in the middle. When we bring in Valencia, Young and Welbeck we lose that. One of them is fine, but once you get to two then you've lost a lot of the variety and cutting edge in attack, playing all 3 like today just leaves the team too rigid and for me it would make little difference if it was clev or ando in, because what valance and young need is a quality balls high up the pitch and although Carrick is capable of it, he doesn't have that consistency Scholes had and the other midfielders have nowhere near it.
Yeah, the team selection as a whole was baffling.
But just noticing the sheer difference when we took off Young, put Cleverley into midfield and moved Welbeck left underlines a couple of things.
Young's not good enough as a United winger.
Fellaini's currently far off being good enough as a midfielder, at least not against good opposition. Obviously this can change, we all remember Evra's United debut for instance, but it's the inevitability of his performance that disappointed me. I predicted this to happen against a decent midfield and it did.
I don't need to remind you that the same Cleverley that lifted our performance just by moving off the ball is much maligned on here, yet he showed more in his cameo today than Fellaini did starting.
He is local, that is the only reason. I don't think that any poster would have wanted us to sign him if he wasn't playing for us, let alone compare him to Henry.
Well I thought Clev played well but you have to say how much of it was city switching off being 4 up and as you say the other changes with Welbeck going wide and Fellaini playing a bit higher and drifting. With him there drifting in, it actually gave us a player moving in the lines etc. We saw what the base of Carrick and Fellaini can bring against Bayer Lev, and with players like nani/kagawa being able to move in between the lines etc it can open up options for us as we saw When Welbeck moved wide and came inside with clev and fellaini operating around carrick.
Kagawa on crutches is better than a fully fit Young.