Mykhaylo Mudryk | Reported - Failed doping test

bosnian_red said:
Antony is like a ... Top half PL to Europa League level right winger, with the potential to be an important player for a regular top 4 level. Mudryk isn't a PL level winger at this point. feck knows his potential, but he needs a lower league loan.
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I’m sorry but this is nonsense. It’s fine that you don’t rate him but that’s just crazy hyperbole.
 
His end product isn't developed yet. Just a pace merchant. Reminds me of Adama Traoré except with pace instead of muscle.

Possibly some of it is lack of confidence and he looks better in training.

I think we should probably loan him out to develop his end product unless it's just confidence.
 
WeePat said:
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. It’s fine that you don’t rate him but that’s just crazy hyperbole.
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He's worse than Jack Harrison for example who was relegated with Leeds.

Probably relegation candidate is his level. Far from the top 4 wingers and Mitoma, Barnes, Olise, Morgan Gibbs-White, March, etc are all comfortably better than him.

Not really much of a hyperbole. Sure he can get better but currently? Absolute meh - no end product, loses possession easily, weak on the ball, defensively looks like he doesn't care, positionally he's lost and decision making is way off.
 
WeePat said:
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. It’s fine that you don’t rate him but that’s just crazy hyperbole.
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I agree that he's not Premier League standard. He's done absolutely nothing to show that he's up to it.

Not many players go directly from the Ukrainian Premier League to the English Premier League and take it by storm. It's too big a step up in level.

Mudryk would have benefitted far more by going to somewhere like Portugal first.
 
Mb194dc said:
His end product isn't developed yet. Just a pace merchant. Reminds me of Adama Traoré except with pace instead of muscle.

Possibly some of it is lack of confidence and he looks better in training.

I think we should probably loan him out to develop his end product unless it's just confidence.
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I still can't believe im saying this but I'm still actually rooting for the kid. I think the raw talent is there.

I don't know if it's the step up, or a confidence thing, or a combination of them both, but agree with you, I'd loan him out now, maybe perhaps to Germany where counter attacking wide players tend to thrive. Get him out the EPL firing line and let him hone his game elsewhere before trying again next season, as I feel the lad needs regular starts and to be trusted and it's hard to justify that right now at Chelsea.
 
Enigma_87 said:
He's worse than Jack Harrison for example who was relegated with Leeds.

Probably relegation candidate is his level. Far from the top 4 wingers and Mitoma, Barnes, Olise, Morgan Gibbs-White, March, etc are all comfortably better than him.

Not really much of a hyperbole. Sure he can get better but currently? Absolute meh - no end product, loses possession easily, weak on the ball, defensively looks like he doesn't care, positionally he's lost and decision making is way off.
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I would say it’s hyperbole so suggest he isn’t PL level player who needs a lower league loan. He looked at home in the CL for example. And contrary to popular belief, he actually hasn’t been that bad even playing for Chelsea. He was totally unfit when he first came and Potter did him no favours by playing him, but he even then he showed flashes of what he can do. He had a decent preseason and I expect he’ll prove you all wrong this season.
 
There was a Portuguese bloke here not too long ago who Dennis Irwin had in his back pocket and he turned out alright.

Give him time, train him up, let him learn the pace of the game here. Players will rarely be the finished article when you pluck them from relative obscurity, especially when they are joining a club with as many problems as Chelsea.

I would be overjoyed if we had him here as there is so much potential.
 
WeePat said:
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. It’s fine that you don’t rate him but that’s just crazy hyperbole.
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He's just a pace merchant whose confidence is rock bottom, horrible decision making and questionable technique? Antony at this current moment in time would start for many clubs in the league and would do very well across Europa League clubs and probably just be meh in the CL. Mudryk in this moment in time would likely struggle anywhere in the league and needs a smaller, easier league to just rebuild himself. But he certainly wouldn't start for any of the top half PL clubs, and the bottom half PL clubs would need him to get confidence and show some composure before he just runs down blind alleys and loses the ball constantly with heavy touches.
 
WeePat said:
I would say it’s hyperbole so suggest he isn’t PL level player who needs a lower league loan. He looked at home in the CL for example. And contrary to popular belief, he actually hasn’t been that bad even playing for Chelsea. He was totally unfit when he first came and Potter did him no favours by playing him, but he even then he showed flashes of what he can do. He had a decent preseason and I expect he’ll prove you all wrong this season.
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Well at the moment he really isn’t. So far he has shown that he’s a good athlete in the pace department. Apart from that he doesn’t have anything else worth of note.

He is also 22 and whilst that isn’t old obviously his game is dependent purely based on being light and quick off the mark. However he isn’t winning many physical challenges and has questionable technique to get past defenders.

There are many players that would look great in a single game against top opposition when you give them lots of space and their game is based on that but little make it at the highest level.

Walcott, Lennon were much better at his age and the thing with speed merchants is that they phase out pretty fast compared to other players.
 
GoonerBear said:
I still can't believe im saying this but I'm still actually rooting for the kid. I think the raw talent is there.

I don't know if it's the step up, or a confidence thing, or a combination of them both, but agree with you, I'd loan him out now, maybe perhaps to Germany where counter attacking wide players tend to thrive. Get him out the EPL firing line and let him hone his game elsewhere before trying again next season, as I feel the lad needs regular starts and to be trusted and it's hard to justify that right now at Chelsea.
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I still believe if he joins Arsenal and get introduced to the league and the team slowly it will be better for him. He is overpriced there is no doubt. Now it is better for him to stay out of the kitchen and get some game time else where to rebuild his confidence.
 
bosnian_red said:
He's just a pace merchant whose confidence is rock bottom, horrible decision making and questionable technique? Antony at this current moment in time would start for many clubs in the league and would do very well across Europa League clubs and probably just be meh in the CL. Mudryk in this moment in time would likely struggle anywhere in the league and needs a smaller, easier league to just rebuild himself. But he certainly wouldn't start for any of the top half PL clubs, and the bottom half PL clubs would need him to get confidence and show some composure before he just runs down blind alleys and loses the ball constantly with heavy touches.
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I don’t think that’s true. I think Mudryk would thrive in a counter attack team that mostly plays a transition game. He scored 3 goals and 2 assists in 6 CL games, so we do have examples of what he’s like when he’s confident. I understand you don’t rate him. I’m not trying to convince you he’s good. I just objected to the, what I think was, extremely hyperbolic portion of your post.
 
WeePat said:
I don’t think that’s true. I think Mudryk would thrive in a counter attack team that mostly plays a transition game. He scored 3 goals and 2 assists in 6 CL games, so we do have examples of what he’s like when he’s confident. I understand you don’t rate him. I’m not trying to convince you he’s good. I just objected to the, what I think was, extremely hyperbolic portion of your post.
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Fair enough. I don't think he is entirely shit really, he has potential I just think he right now needs an environment that will help him grow and learn. He wasn't a stand out in Ukraine beyond his pace, simple analytical analysis of his time there showed that he turned over the ball a massive amount even there, let alone the prem at a much higher level. It was a massive overpay, but of course he has potential and can become a good player. I don't think he's likely to play like what his true current level probably is at Chelsea though as he seems horribly affected by pressure too. But just when comparing to Antony, their current levels (what they've shown in 2023) are worlds apart IMO.
 
bosnian_red said:
Fair enough. I don't think he is entirely shit really, he has potential I just think he right now needs an environment that will help him grow and learn. He wasn't a stand out in Ukraine beyond his pace, simple analytical analysis of his time there showed that he turned over the ball a massive amount even there, let alone the prem at a much higher level. It was a massive overpay, but of course he has potential and can become a good player. I don't think he's likely to play like what his true current level probably is at Chelsea though as he seems horribly affected by pressure too. But just when comparing to Antony, their current levels (what they've shown in 2023) are worlds apart IMO.
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But his time in the Ukraine included his teenage years I would assume? He made his pro debut in 2018 when he was just 17. Even at Chelsea, he’s total appearances is still less than 20 games, with probably over half that number being little cameos coming off the bench. That’s an extremely small sample size to come to absolute definitive conclusions about his level. I’m not saying you’re doing that, you’re being somewhat fair in your assessment, but generally speaking.

Another thing I wanted to say was the majority of his appearances in 2023 have come under a Chelsea team in free fall under Lampard, playing un-coached freestyle football, where half the squad has chucked the towel in and were making arrangements to leave the club. So some mitigating circumstances. I understand if people say I’m just making up excuses but I think those are fair things to consider. He hasn’t exactly been put in the best position to succeed, nor has he been given a run of games to gain momentum and confidence.
 
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Enigma_87 said:
This one is going well @Amadaeus ?

I thought Poch will turn him into Mbappe..
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The problem that Pochettino is facing is squad balancing issues. Mudryk and Chilwell is occupying the same role, which is why Pochettino has utilized Carni as a lam the first two games. Chilwell doesn't play that interverted lb well well enough and Mudryk prefers hugging the sideline. It is hard for these two to coexist in the same team unless one of these players change their approach. I still believe that mudryk has similiar attribute to mbappe and it is a much fairer assessment than calling him Dan James. Once mudryk get more game time and that balancing issue is resolved, we will see mudryk cook. Pochettino should use maatsen or hall in the inverted lb role. However, I understand why he persist with chilwell because he is their vice captain.
 
WeePat said:
But his time in the Ukraine included his teenage years I would assume? He made his pro debut in 2018 when he was just 17. Even at Chelsea, he’s total appearances is still less than 20 games, with probably over half that number being little cameos coming off the bench. That’s an extremely small sample size to come to absolute definitive conclusions about his level. I’m not saying you’re doing that, you’re being somewhat fair in your assessment, but generally speaking.

Another thing I wanted to say was the majority of his appearances in 2023 have come under a Chelsea team in free fall under Lampard, playing un-coached freestyle football, where half the squad has chucked the towel in and were making arrangements to leave the club. So some mitigating circumstances. I understand if people say I’m just making up excuses but I think those are fair things to consider. He hasn’t exactly been put in the best position to succeed, nor has he been given a run of games to gain momentum and confidence.
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It was a statsbomb chart of his time just the season he was signed, not all encompassing. He wasn't some elite player leagues above the rest in Ukraine is what the analytics were saying. He was a sloppy player in that league who also had some elite looking traits with his pace and he was getting in a ton of chances there... But also turned it over constantly.

I agree though that he's been given the absolute worst set of circumstances to succeed, but generally I think he was a very raw talent. Look at Amad at United... He was bought for relatively big money and has had a few loans, latest one being excellent. Probably due for another loan though. People still have huge hopes due to his talent though. I kinda see Mudryk like that. He should've been a player who a big club purchased for 40m max after add ons, where they'd use him as a impact sub behind a more set starter, or loan him out to develop him for a few years until he rounded out his game to the point where it was ready for the prem. Instead the fee became outrageous and he came with this expectation that he's nowhere near ready for and it's a sink or swim situation. The potential is there for sure, but the current level was horrendously misjudged imo.
 
Antony is much better but his tranfer would hurt ManUtd more than Mudryk transfer to Chelsea as they seem to have unlimited budget and Antony does just enough that its not justified to write him of completely thus making even harder to upgrade that position.
 
bosnian_red said:
It was a statsbomb chart of his time just the season he was signed, not all encompassing. He wasn't some elite player leagues above the rest in Ukraine is what the analytics were saying. He was a sloppy player in that league who also had some elite looking traits with his pace and he was getting in a ton of chances there... But also turned it over constantly.

I agree though that he's been given the absolute worst set of circumstances to succeed, but generally I think he was a very raw talent. Look at Amad at United... He was bought for relatively big money and has had a few loans, latest one being excellent. Probably due for another loan though. People still have huge hopes due to his talent though. I kinda see Mudryk like that. He should've been a player who a big club purchased for 40m max after add ons, where they'd use him as a impact sub behind a more set starter, or loan him out to develop him for a few years until he rounded out his game to the point where it was ready for the prem. Instead the fee became outrageous and he came with this expectation that he's nowhere near ready for and it's a sink or swim situation. The potential is there for sure, but the current level was horrendously misjudged imo.
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He's almost 23. I would understand that sentiment had they bought a 17 year old. It's like in the tweet Amadeus just posted, he's comparing himself to an 18 year old. It's all delusion at this point. He's got one thing going for him and that's that he's fast as feck. He's an overpriced less talented Aaron Lennon and at least Lennon could cross the ball and dribble. Pace will get you very far however, in the Premier League it won't fly because fullbacks are also fast as feck. He goes to Italy or Spain and I think he will do much better than he ever will do here.
 
WeePat said:
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. It’s fine that you don’t rate him but that’s just crazy hyperbole.
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I know there’s a lot of jibing going on at Mudryk, but to be fair in the time since he’s come to the premier league he hasn’t done anything to dispel what @bosnian_red is saying. If anything he seems to have got worse than his initial cameos. I do think he’s better than what he’s showing but I’m not convinced he’s going to become a top player in the premier league. We’ll have to see.
 
CannonBalls said:
Antony is much better but his tranfer would hurt ManUtd more than Mudryk transfer to Chelsea as they seem to have unlimited budget and Antony does just enough that its not justified to write him of completely thus making even harder to upgrade that position.
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I would rather have Mudryk than Antony. I think the former will suit us better in our transition game than Antony.
 
I actually bought into his hype early on but on further consideration he does really seem awfully limited, not a good sign.

with vinisius you certainly could have seen how dazzling he was with his feet and dribbling, the frustration was mostly with how God awful his finishing was which verged on comical, it was only bound to get at least somewhat better and it did.

So far mudryk has shown that he's rapid...and not much else.
 
I think Mudryk is a high potential player. He can become good if he improves his finishing and if he can avoid long term injuries.
 
Antony is dreadful. One of the worst signings in premier league history.

Not impressed by Mudryk yet but unlike Antony, has never had a run of games. He needs game time and if it doesn’t work, a loan. We have a very decent run of games now and he should be starting at least the next 3 to see what he’s capable of instead of constantly being on the bench.
 
MayosNoun said:
Antony is dreadful. One of the worst signings in premier league history.

Not impressed by Mudryk yet but unlike Antony, has never had a run of games. He needs game time and if it doesn’t work, a loan. We have a very decent run of games now and he should be starting at least the next 3 to see what he’s capable of instead of constantly being on the bench.
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So far Antony has been miles better. He’s been sometimes good but overall disappointing. Mudryk has been absolutely useless. He hasn’t had a run of games because he hasn’t even been worthy of that.

Based on the comments here it may seem that Mudryk has the talent but has made a mess thus far of using it whereas Antony’s skillset itself is limited. I wouldnt disagree with the latter as Antony doesn’t lose the ball easily and is excellent off the ball but on it his tools do seem limited - like you wonder where the brilliance / end product will ever come from.
 
This guy seems to play at 100kmph all the time. He needs to learn to slow down when entering the final third. He is rushing his shots and decision making in the final third. Plays like a school boy really. But the potential is there, without a doubt.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
How to ensure nothing you say will be taken seriously 101. What a ridiculous post.
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Come on now. Chelsea rarely make dud signings, yes they signed Danny Drinkwater, Michy Batshuayi, Lukaku twice ,Timoue Bakayako, Adrian Mutu, for some reason Seba Veron, and the thousands of other players who ended up on loan across Europe, but they rarely get it wrong.
 
1905 said:
Our style of play doesn't really suit him so its on him to improve and become a more rounded player.

Think he'd actually thrive at someone like Utd who are more than content to just absorb pressure and counter attack.
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Give it a year or two, I'm sure you'll eventually end up with a manager whose style of play suits him
 
Mogget said:
Give it a year or two, I'm sure you'll eventually end up with a manager whose style of play suits him
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Perhaps, perhaps not. The culture of the club seems to have changed ever since Sarri was appointed.
 
WeePat said:
I don’t think that’s true. I think Mudryk would thrive in a counter attack team that mostly plays a transition game. He scored 3 goals and 2 assists in 6 CL games, so we do have examples of what he’s like when he’s confident. I understand you don’t rate him. I’m not trying to convince you he’s good. I just objected to the, what I think was, extremely hyperbolic portion of your post.
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That is a tiny sample size, he scored his 2 goals in the group stage against Celtic who are bordering on Championship level if we're being honest and his assists came against a Leipzig team (without Gvardiol) whose defence is regularly atrocious.

CL group stages aren't indicative of quality or being able to adapt to the PL. You only had to watch Demba Ba scoring on the break against United a couple of seasons ago to see how poor the level can be in that competition.
 
MayosNoun said:
Antony is dreadful. One of the worst signings in premier league history.

Not impressed by Mudryk yet but unlike Antony, has never had a run of games. He needs game time and if it doesn’t work, a loan. We have a very decent run of games now and he should be starting at least the next 3 to see what he’s capable of instead of constantly being on the bench.
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Hahahaha you’re hilarious
 
Amadaeus said:


The problem that Pochettino is facing is squad balancing issues. Mudryk and Chilwell is occupying the same role, which is why Pochettino has utilized Carni as a lam the first two games. Chilwell doesn't play that interverted lb well well enough and Mudryk prefers hugging the sideline. It is hard for these two to coexist in the same team unless one of these players change their approach. I still believe that mudryk has similiar attribute to mbappe and it is a much fairer assessment than calling him Dan James. Once mudryk get more game time and that balancing issue is resolved, we will see mudryk cook. Pochettino should use maatsen or hall in the inverted lb role. However, I understand why he persist with chilwell because he is their vice captain.
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Dan James had an end product.
 
MayosNoun said:
Antony is dreadful. One of the worst signings in premier league history.

Not impressed by Mudryk yet but unlike Antony, has never had a run of games. He needs game time and if it doesn’t work, a loan. We have a very decent run of games now and he should be starting at least the next 3 to see what he’s capable of instead of constantly being on the bench.
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This is a pretty dumb post considering Mudryk has been so shit he can’t even get in the starting lineup. On that basis he’s not even on Antony’s level.
 
WeePat said:
This is so annoying. Nkunku, Chukwuemeka and now Mudryk. I guess Maatsen will get a shot now, or Poch could play Madueke and switch Sterling over to the left.
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To be fair he’ll just make way for someone else to take his place on the bench.
 
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