Murtough and Ten Hag on Utd squad

DDG
LAIRD ------------ VARANE ------------- TIMBER --------------- SHAW
MARTINEZ
DE JONG
------------ BRUNO
SANCHO ------------------ RONALDO -------------- NKUNKU

Bench: Heaton, Maguire, Dalot, Donny, Fred, Rashford, Garner, Mejbri, Garnacho​
 
Think it happened twice during SAF time. First it was drinking culture and other time it was when he let fan into a dressing room to criticize players in their face somewhere in 2000s.

From what I remember it was during or after clash vs City.

But I don't think it became public knowledge about the drinking culture until after he'd done it. I thought the fan thing was a threat rather than an occurrence?
 
But I don't think it became public knowledge about the drinking culture until after he'd done it. I thought the fan thing was a threat rather than an occurrence?
From what I remember it was a threat in order for players to start performing.
 
DDG
LAIRD ------------ VARANE ------------- TIMBER --------------- SHAW
MARTINEZ
DE JONG
------------ BRUNO
SANCHO ------------------ RONALDO -------------- NKUNKU

Bench: Heaton, Maguire, Dalot, Donny, Fred, Rashford, Garner, Mejbri, Garnacho​

Be lucky to get 1 out of those 4.

And christ that bench is dreadful.
 
Let's face facts. The squad at United haven't been properly coached since 2013, when Ferguson left.

They had, what, 3 weeks with Moyes, then he got canned. Jose and his usual three year self destruction period. LVG and his retirement period and then they had three years under Ole.

All-in-all, a shit show.

That's the main reason why I'm not willing to throw any of these players under the bus. Our choices of managers after SAF has been woeful.

I'm sure, under the right manager, they will get more out of these players.

SAF would probably challenge for the title with this squad.
 
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I doubt Martial or VdB will be sold.

They'll get another chance under ETH and they may just come good this time.

Specially with Cavani leaving, Martial could become backup if we have trouble signing a decent backup ST. I think ETH’s coaching will do him good.
Ha! Imaging Martial being a hard worker under ETH is the last thing I was expecting to hear today.
 
The wage bill is cut by 25% PLUS a fair few leaving. All reports seem to point to ~150million plus sales being what we have to spend. We'll get in 3, no lower than that.

That being said, every manager says this before they come in. Even Klopp said this when he joined Liverpool 'This is a great club with a good team and big potential. Fast players, strong players, good defenders, flexible, creative.' - He pretty swiftly cleared out a lot of the club over the next two/three windows.
Brilliant post. Would be madness from Ten Hag and Murtough to say anything else.
 
Ronaldo’s reduced wages due to no Champions league isn’t a new nor a spiralling cost. He’s getting a pay decrease, just like the rest of the squad. Our wage bill will have lots of wiggle room for new players. We will need creative ideas for raising funds, Henderson is probably our biggest incoming transfer fee if we agree to sell him.
Ronaldos wage won't reduce.
 
Whether there has been a lack of coaching for 8/9 years or not doesn't wash with me in that our squad during that time has been full of high earning primadonas that have decided to down tools and basically be lazy on the job. We've binned off 3/4 managers and each time the problem persisted.Most of this lot don't deserve to wear the shirt and should be sacked / gotten rid. Unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.
 
But I don't think it became public knowledge about the drinking culture until after he'd done it. I thought the fan thing was a threat rather than an occurrence?
The drinking culture was well known to regulars of The Griffin in Bowdon and various hotels in Sale, but as there was no social media back then that’s as far as it got.
 
If there is one thing that is really saddening is the emergence of people ready to defend every nonsensical decision made by the blundering idiots ruining United over the past five years. First started with us keeping Ole past the Liverpool humiliation which then led us to losing out on Conte and now Spura have our CL spot and are looking to rebuild from a point of strength whilst we have to live on lies, promises and misplaced hopes.

Now we are being told that its impossible to sign 6 players and that its Ok for us to go into next season with a bunch of wasters that quit on their manager, on their teammates, on their club and on their fans. We are now pinning all hopes on Ten Hag's magical ability to polish twenty something turds, lets get real. The club is bottling anothet big decision at a major turning point that could see us being left behind by the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Newcastle forever.

United need more than five starters next season, these peacemeal rebuilds don't work because the rotten apples in the box will ruin the fresh ones! Look at Bruno, Rashford and even Maguire who were all reliable players who have been ruined by constant association with wasters only here for the payday and we think letting these players get away with with it whilst we add two or three will suddenly improve us?
 
It was obvious loads of utd fans would hate this kind of chat because they have spent the best part of six months defending an incompetent Ragnick and blaming the players. There’s some wonderful players in this squad that under the right management can be world class. Players like Bruno, Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane, Fred, Maguire, even Rashford can play a part in a successful team playing good quality football. Yes we of course need some clever recruitment especially in midfield but under the right coaching all those players will look like new signings. Biggest obstacle is sorting the fecking midfield, it’s a complete shambles.
 
If there is one thing that is really saddening is the emergence of people ready to defend every nonsensical decision made by the blundering idiots ruining United over the past five years. First started with us keeping Ole past the Liverpool humiliation which then led us to losing out on Conte and now Spura have our CL spot and are looking to rebuild from a point of strength whilst we have to live on lies, promises and misplaced hopes.

Now we are being told that its impossible to sign 6 players and that its Ok for us to go into next season with a bunch of wasters that quit on their manager, on their teammates, on their club and on their fans. We are now pinning all hopes on Ten Hag's magical ability to polish twenty something turds, lets get real. The club is bottling anothet big decision at a major turning point that could see us being left behind by the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Newcastle forever.

United need more than five starters next season, these peacemeal rebuilds don't work because the rotten apples in the box will ruin the fresh ones! Look at Bruno, Rashford and even Maguire who were all reliable players who have been ruined by constant association with wasters only here for the payday and we think letting these players get away with with it whilst we add two or three will suddenly improve us?
The fact you want Conte says you’ve learnt absolutely zero about the last 10 years. Rather them than people like you.
 
they have privately dismissed last season for the false and misleading finish it was in games played behind closed doors.

What does this nonsense even mean?

Was every teams position false or did United somehow uniquely benefit from games behind closed doors. There would be a case to be made for this idea if we'd jumped from 7th-8th to 2nd but it seems to be forgotten that we finished 3rd the year before. Our second place finish had more to do with Liverpool's injury crisis than it did some bizarre theory about games behind closed doors. Every team was playing in empty stadiums for feck sake.
 
He's starting from a similar position as Klopp did. ETH is worse off than Klopp IMO, but we are looking at similar timeframe for gutting squad and ETH getting things in order. So no wholesale changes, but definitely getting rid of troublemakers and the useless lazy twats that are knocking about the place is paramount. Should see improvement by xmas and following season for tangible improvement.
Our squad is probably 2/3 levels above where that Liverpool squad was. More deflection, more excuses that are full of nonsense.
 
Best case scenario:

‘Out: Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata, Matic, Jones, Bailly, Henderson, Grant, Andreas, Martial (11)
In: DM, CM or RB, CB, ST (4)
Promoted: Mejbri, Guarnacho (?)
Return from loan: Garner, DvB, Tuanzebe, Williams
Loans: Diallo, Pelestri, Mengi

First XI:
DDG
AWB/RB. Varane. new CB. Shaw
DM. CM
Elanga. Bruno. Sancho
Ronaldo

Bench:
McT
Fred
Rashford
Mejbri
Lindelof
Maguire
DvB / Garner
Backup ST

With real coaching, man management, training and recruitment, that’s a top 4 side IMHO.
If he priorities defence over that attack we are absolutely screwed. Our defence is far less of an issue than the attack and midfield.
 
The fact you want Conte says you’ve learnt absolutely zero about the last 10 years. Rather them than people like you.
Conte is a proven winner who could have easily achieved our season objectives. Not every managerial appointment is a happily ever after type of appointment, Madrid and Chelsea go through more managers than us but they never really fall off a cliff like we do. The sooner we accept that Sir Alex was a one-off the better for everyone.
 
What does this nonsense even mean?

Was every teams position false or did United somehow uniquely benefit from games behind closed doors. There would be a case to be made for this idea if we'd jumped from 7th-8th to 2nd but it seems to be forgotten that we finished 3rd the year before. Our second place finish had more to do with Liverpool's injury crisis than it did some bizarre theory about games behind closed doors. Every team was playing in empty stadiums for feck sake.
Agreed more nonsense aimed at bashing Utd and ole and deflecting from the terrible job Ragnick has done.
 
Very balanced assessment by Murtough. We have several underperforming players.

And I don’t understand the narrative that the Glazers don’t invest enough - they did but just on the wrong players. They got most of their backroom appointments terribly wrong too. We are still paying the price of those horrendous decisions now and that means having a more modest transfer war chest. We might just see a single first team addition.
 
Conte is a proven winner who could have easily achieved our season objectives. Not every managerial appointment is a happily ever after type of appointment, Madrid and Chelsea go through more managers than us but they never really fall off a cliff like we do. The sooner we accept that Sir Alex was a one-off the better for everyone.
Oh where have I heard that before…ahh yes when we hired the “proven winner” Mourinho. Conte isn’t a Utd manager in style, stature or substance. It’s not enough to win, we need to win the right way, otherwise why not feck off and support Chelsea?
 
No CL and spiralling wages will mean there isn't a big warchest to play with this summer, we have to accept that.

We might get in 1/2/3 but it won't be a big change at all.

This year will be about getting the fitness right, finding a good team shape and organisation IMO. We need that before we can progress.

Then we’ll finish fifth or sixth. While I understand your last paragraph and somewhat agree, it isn’t happening unless we make at least six signings in key areas. There are just too many gaps.
 
Then we’ll finish fifth or sixth. While I understand your last paragraph and somewhat agree, it isn’t happening unless we make at least six signings in key areas. There are just too many gaps.
You can literally say the same about all our rivals. Spurs are shite they just have two good players. Arsenal are shite. Chelsea are not that great either they just have a good manager. The manager makes a far bigger difference than the players.
 
I don’t expect them to publicly criticise the squad; that would be unwise. I’d like to think they know full well that the squad is in tatters, though.

We can build around the likes of Varane, Shaw, Bruno and Sancho, maybe a few others, but there’s a real absence of quality elsewhere.
 
You can literally say the same about all our rivals. Spurs are shite they just have two good players. Arsenal are shite. Chelsea are not that great either they just have a good manager. The manager makes a far bigger difference than the players.

I don’t think we can? While Arsenal and Spurs might have generally weaker squads than we do, neither of them are losing up to ten players in one window.

Hopefully the manger makes a difference, but a miracle worker he is not.
 
Oh where have I heard that before…ahh yes when we hired the “proven winner” Mourinho. Conte isn’t a Utd manager in style, stature or substance. It’s not enough to win, we need to win the right way, otherwise why not feck off and support Chelsea?
Yet the same Mourinho is still the last manager to add any meaningful siverware to our trophy cabinet. We just mistimed his dismisal, he really shouldn't have stayed beyond the summer of 2018.

When you have not won in nearly half a decade its enough to win. And its really not your place to be telling me which side to go and support. Lets just agree to disagree without the snide remarks to establish faux superiority.
 
The drinking culture was well known to regulars of The Griffin in Bowdon and various hotels in Sale, but as there was no social media back then that’s as far as it got.
Imagine Best on social media!
 
Yet the same Mourinho is still the last manager to add any meaningful siverware to our trophy cabinet. We just mistimed his dismisal, he really shouldn't have stayed beyond the summer of 2018.

When you have not won in nearly half a decade its enough to win. And its really not your place to be telling me which side to go and support. Lets just agree to disagree without the snide remarks to establish faux superiority.
Nah if you only support Utd for the trophies you can feck off as far as I’m concerned. This club has and will always be about more.
 
If your basing our potential on last season 2nd place they have to remember that Greenwood was available, matic was still here, pogba was still here, Dan James was here and suited ole's style, cavani was here and was playing a good amount of games and martial was here and doing OK.
 
Nah if you only support Utd for the trophies you can feck off as far as I’m concerned. This club has and will always be about more.
The 'more' you talk about should always culminate in winning. Its defeatist to tout intangibles when football is a contest for trophies, we can agree that we have a way that we go about doing it just as Barcelona or Ajax have but we aren't even doing what we claim to do in order to achieve the more you are talking about. This is nothing more than an excuse for failure.
 
The 'more' you talk about should always culminate in winning. Its defeatist to tout intangibles when football is a contest for trophies, we can agree that we have a way that we go about doing it just as Barcelona or Ajax have but we aren't even doing what we claim to do in order to achieve the more you are talking about. This is nothing more than an excuse for failure.
Yeh I agree we need to ultimately win but we shouldn’t sacrifice our soul just to achieve that. If you have to do that then ultimately what is the point? I’d much rather wait longer and then get genuine deserved success that fluke some horrible win under a manager like Mourinho or Conte who simply don’t understand Utd and our ‘heritage’. Barca have been through a rough patch and they haven’t caved on their vision, Utd shouldn’t either, all we need to do is implement it better!
 
Lets see if ten hag can polish turd next season.

These players will make ten hag look shite, even if by some miracle ten hag improved them then we won't win anything because our players are mentally weak chokers.

As neville said recently, they're broken and will fall apart at the first sign of adversity.
Let’s hope the board doesn’t think that covering it in glitter like Ole and Mourinho did, will suffice.
 
Yeh I agree we need to ultimately win but we shouldn’t sacrifice our soul just to achieve that. If you have to do that then ultimately what is the point? I’d much rather wait longer and then get genuine deserved success that fluke some horrible win under a manager like Mourinho or Conte who simply don’t understand Utd and our ‘heritage’. Barca have been through a rough patch and they haven’t caved on their vision, Utd shouldn’t either, all we need to do is implement it better!
Look here, when had Mourinho and he led us to the CL and an FA Cup Final appearance we had revenues of over £600m nearly catching Real Madrid in the revenue tables. Thats a lot of potential right there which could have put us in good stead had we not wasted in on Ole.

Each time Liverpool or City contest for the big trophies we get left behind a bit more and our ability to catch up diminishes with each season. In my view missing out on the CL is a disastrous setback which could really cost us if we don't act to rectify things.

What frustrates me is that we aren't losing by staying true to ethos, we are failing even when we aren't risking it all on youths. If we had 4 or 5 U23 graduates in our first eleven you wouldn't hear anyone moaning because we will be falling whilst remaining true to our ethos but we have spent a billion to reach this point.
 
Our squad is probably 2/3 levels above where that Liverpool squad was. More deflection, more excuses that are full of nonsense.
You sound angry in this thread. Take a day off for yourself. That you think this squad of ours is 2/3 levels above Liverpools back then is downright fkin laughable.
 
Who gives a shit really, keep the cnuts, sell the cnuts, let them keep leeching mental wages or not what ever. Also, discussing their quality or lack off is just weird in our case, we aint even at that stage where thats an issue. I swear people acting like they just woke up from coma or went full memento without notes and tats, how many times we have to watch same movie.
 
Lets see if ten hag can polish turd next season.

These players will make ten hag look shite, even if by some miracle ten hag improved them then we won't win anything because our players are mentally weak chokers.

As neville said recently, they're broken and will fall apart at the first sign of adversity.

Let's not.
They are mostly shite. I'm sick of the sight of them