Murtough and Ten Hag on Utd squad

LARulz said:
Realistically we can't get 15 new players and ship 20 out. He will ultimately have to work with the majority we already have and some of them have/had potential and some are just average at best - either way he has to keep them on side till he can ship some of these guys on. Imagine a new boss in any line of work coming in and saying "You're all shit and see no hope for any of you"
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I don't understand what's so hard to understand for some people. He will get the best he can out of the squad and will weed it out over time.
 
Majima said:
Klopp cleared Liverpool out completely within 2 years. His first summer he had 13 out with 6 arrivals. The next he had a further 5 out with 4 in. So 18 out 10 in, job done. That's how you do it properly. None of this making do with 'existing potential' nonsense.
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Klopp had the advantage of a half season to properly assess the squad, so he had no doubt of who to keep and who had to go.
 
babablue said:
Klopp had the advantage of a half season to properly assess the squad, so he had no doubt of who to keep and who had to go.
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Seems like Rangnick had that time to assess and share data to ETH, if it didn't happen then I just don't know what was the purpose of this appointment.
 
flappyjay said:
I don't understand what's so hard to understand for some people. He will get the best he can out of the squad and will weed it out over time.
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i think at the same time there just cant be this expectation that our starting lineup can be the same as what we have now and expect anything to change. Plus there are quite a few players leaving as is, without taking into account players that should be sold. I think most of us are logical and expecting to see a middle ground between do nothing and a FM approach. For this club to be successful they have to make an effort to bring in a good amount of players this transfer window. Not like we can ruin any "chemistry" this team has because clearly they have none
 
Other than Elanga, Bruno, and DDG; i'd get rid off every one of these mentally weak, limited, toxic, lazy ass turds.
 
Majima said:
I was a few out in retrospect but Klopp's first summer he got rid of 6 solid first teamers (over 12k mins worth that season) along with youth. He didn't pointlessly try to work with the likes of Benteke.

Expecting Ten Hag to work with any of ours who have shown no problem giving up if they feel like it is going to go as successfully as Rangnick imo. This news will be just what the players want to hear.
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exactly. People are so weird. Bitch about players not being good enough but then expect a new manager to somehow change that. Some just arent good enough, hence we dont have players like Bebe or obertan still around here. This is a perfect chance to make some serious change, we have no chemistry to worry about messing up ha
 
Van Piorsing said:
Seems like Rangnick had that time to assess and share data to ETH, if it didn't happen then I just don't know what was the purpose of this appointment.
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You'd think that was the case, but the club seemed to have purposefully kept them apart from meeting face to face after the Palace game. There must have been other opportunities as well but now Rangnick has left for Austria so they will have to do it over zoom.
 
Sammy McIlroys fan club said:
The Celtic team that won the league this season had 9 starters in January who were not at the club last season. It can be done if the will is there, and Celtic spent a pittance while doing it, winning the league ahead of a Rangers side that made the Europa league final.
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If we were challenging for the Scottish league, that would be a fair point.
 
Fans who think we will have a brand new starting 11 for next season are in for a big disappointment. I would be surprised if there is more than 4 incoming players to the squad let alone starting team.
 
Majima said:
I was a few out in retrospect but Klopp's first summer he got rid of 6 solid first teamers (over 12k mins worth that season) along with youth. He didn't pointlessly try to work with the likes of Benteke.

Expecting Ten Hag to work with any of ours who have shown no problem giving up if they feel like it is going to go as successfully as Rangnick imo.
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We are losing Matic, Cavani, Mata, Pogba, lingard then there is a few who are to be sold. Why are we pretending that this is not happening. There is a good chance we might see 10 senior departures this summer.
 
These quotes are always treated as conclusive and absolute. Potential in the team doesn't mean literally every garbageman in the first team. In fact the only remaining member of the attack that finished 2nd is Rashford. ETH's version of that potential will be its own unique setup. Fred and Mctominay can even stay without us ever having to see that McFred midfield again.

I also wouldn't look too deep at quotes from the same wastemen that built this team. Of course they think what they built is mint. There's also the fact that he can't actually buy 11 first teamers. Whether or not Ronaldo, Bruno, DDG are his type of players is irrelevant, he has to use at least some of them for a year.
 
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I read those quotes like, yeah there is potential and eth with his coaches will let the players know what they need to do to reach that potential and if they can't then get rid. This is classic trust based governance.

It's an improvement from we can do whatever we want in the market.
 
Folks dreaming about 6-8 first team signings were living in a cuckoo land. Rangnick can run his mouth about how many new players we need, but this club hierarchy were never going to sanction such a huge upturn of players.

Vast, vast majority of players will still be at the club. Those leaving on a free will be replaced by a mixture of youth and new signings. We'll sign a maximum of 3-4 first team players this summer, folks need to manage their expectations.
 
Its a protocol statement. They couldn't say anything else. Players could drop weapons and nobody is gonna sign 10 players per window.
 
avgp_1 said:
ETH, noted for his coaching, would obviously like to show that he can improve players. Its one of the biggest metrics in comparing him to the previous management.

Obviously he cant make AwB play out of pressure or get Mctominay to ping it around, but those with traits he likes he might be able to get them to a proper level. He doesnt need the checkbook to fix each and every position
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Good post.
 
Best case scenario:

‘Out: Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata, Matic, Jones, Bailly, Henderson, Grant, Andreas, Martial (11)
In: DM, CM or RB, CB, ST (4)
Promoted: Mejbri, Guarnacho (?)
Return from loan: Garner, DvB, Tuanzebe, Williams
Loans: Diallo, Pelestri, Mengi

First XI:
DDG
AWB/RB. Varane. new CB. Shaw
DM. CM
Elanga. Bruno. Sancho
Ronaldo

Bench:
McT
Fred
Rashford
Mejbri
Lindelof
Maguire
DvB / Garner
Backup ST

With real coaching, man management, training and recruitment, that’s a top 4 side IMHO.
 
I doubt Martial or VdB will be sold.

They'll get another chance under ETH and they may just come good this time.

Specially with Cavani leaving, Martial could become backup if we have trouble signing a decent backup ST. I think ETH’s coaching will do him good.
 
I am sick of this line about how the 2nd supposedly didn't count because part of the season was played behind closed doors.

Did all other clubs not compete under exactly the same conditions? Why did we benefit from it more than Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and Arsenal?

I get that our supporters want to be furious all the time and nobody ever wants to say anything positive about the club but regardless of the circumstances, this squad of players (in fact, arguably a weaker squad with a weaker coach) finished 2nd over a 38-game season.

You do not 'fluke' a 2nd place finish over 38-games. You finish second over 38-games because you were the second-best team that year.

It's quite right to believe that Ten Hag can work with some of these players. Lest we forget, we had a horror season full of chaos, in-fighting, disorder and maniacal tactics that suited precisely none of our players and we tossed the season off in about March and we still only finished 13pts behind 4th. Sounds bad but given we barely raised a pulse for the last 10 games that gap can easily, easily be closed and we can build from there.
 
If we don't have at least 7 new players starting our first game of the season next year then Ten Hag might aswell pack his bags and stop wasting his time because these players are a disgrace and the only thing they are good at is getting managers fired

FFS the club needs to hit the reset button, it has to happen now otherwise we'll be in Everton's position from last season and I'm not even joking, these players are that bad
 
Ok I’m going to be positive after that DISGRACE of a season.
Who do we think is actually saveable? What is the minimum recruitment?

GK:
De Gea, still one of the best.

Defence:
Varane, he’s not done yet, been too good for too long.
Maguire, we wanted him, City wanted him
and he made the Euros team of the tournament.
Shaw, was shocking last season but we all know he can play, also is the team of the tournament at the Euros.

Midfield:
Bruno. No explanation needed.
Van De Beek, looked like a world beater under Ten Haag, all the top teams in Europe wanted him. The incompetence at Man Utd zapped his confidence.

Wingers/ Forwards:
Ronaldo. No explanation needed.
Sancho, give him a chance, he was in the worst Man Utd team in premier league history.
Rashford, I’m on the fence with this one.

So new players?
At least one striker/winger.
A quality right back.
Two midfielders and a centre back.

Will we win the league? Not a chance, but we have to be realistic, we are down a massive hole.
 
Obviously Ten Hag is going to assess his squad first. He does not need 15 star big name players. Ten Hag thinks in systems / concepts and in whatever concept he wants to play he can use all kinds of players, including those that may not look great now.

In these past weeks they've made a first assessment on what's needed in this squad. Players departing because their contract ends will be a big part of that I would say. I think it's pretty easy for Ten Hag to establish that he's going to need a midfielder (since players like Matic and Pogba are leaving) and a CB (because the whole world has seen that United's current CBs can't play a high line and are quite poor in possession). Therefore it makes sense that we have the rumours about FdJ and Timber. They are logical first targets for Ten Hag. Maybe there will be one or two more players incoming before pre-season.

I don't think United will sign much more than 3 or 4 players this transferwindow - especially not before pre-season. Maybe during pre-season when Ten Hag can make his first assessments as a coach, there will be some more departures (if decent offers come in), which will then be filled with a new player. Other than that I'd expect Ten Hag to work with this squad + 3/4 new players next season. Maybe one or two mutations in the winter transfer window.

In my opinion Varane, Shaw, Bruno, Sancho and Ronaldo are clearly players Ten Hag can work with. But a big group of players like Dalot, Telles, Bailly, McTominay, Fred, Donny, Rashford and Elanga there may be enough of them that Ten Hag can use very well and turn out much better than most expected. He might find two or three youth players to be good enough as well.

This is what Ten Hag is going to assess in his first season and I doubt he'll spend all of his transfer budget before using at least pre-season to get a serious first impression. United is not on unlimited funds. Ten Hag needs to spend the transfer budget wisely. It makes much more sense for him to first work with the squad for a while before spending all his gun powder. I'd expect more changes next summer when Ten Hag knows exactly which player he can and can't use. By then he will be able to spend a budget with a much more specific objective.
 
Lool for everyone saying this is PR and that there isn't anything else he could have said... that's wishful thinking.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
The man who coached this team most recently has come out and said the squad needs upto 10 new players and these clowns are trying to blow smoke up peoples asses into thinking that Ten Hag can somehow polish turds into rubies and gems.

It’ll go ass up in 10 months, we ruin a managers confidence and hire the next sacrificial lamb off the pipeline.
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The manager before him even said many of these players won't be here for long. The theme seems to be that the board consistently overrides the decision of managers.
 
I remember, in the ralf thread perhaps, I said that the biggest mistake ETH could do is come in and give everyone a fresh start. Unfortunately, all we ever will be getting is fresh starts every 2 years.
 
Steve 007 said:
Ok I’m going to be positive after that DISGRACE of a season.
Who do we think is actually saveable? What is the minimum recruitment?

GK:
De Gea, still one of the best.

Defence:
Varane, he’s not done yet, been too good for too long.
Maguire, we wanted him, City wanted him
and he made the Euros team of the tournament.
Shaw, was shocking last season but we all know he can play, also is the team of the tournament at the Euros.

Midfield:
Bruno. No explanation needed.
Van De Beek, looked like a world beater under Ten Haag, all the top teams in Europe wanted him. The incompetence at Man Utd zapped his confidence.

Wingers/ Forwards:
Ronaldo. No explanation needed.
Sancho, give him a chance, he was in the worst Man Utd team in premier league history.
Rashford, I’m on the fence with this one.

So new players?
At least one striker/winger.
A quality right back.
Two midfielders and a centre back.

Will we win the league? Not a chance, but we have to be realistic, we are down a massive hole.
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Overall good post but I’d be more on the fence about Maguire than Rashford. England played with 3 at the back which safeguarded Maguire a lot but under a high line with ETH, he will get exposed more frequently. Whereas Rashford has the skills but he just needs to be coached properly and stop giving away possession with stupid passes or shots for starters.
 
Loon said:
It sorta sounds like they're backtracking from Rangnick's "multiple players required" because they don't have the funding for that.
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It sorta sounds like the exact same thing any manager would say in their position.
 
Robindinho said:
What else do you expect them to say in public? "The squads shit and we need 10 new players". That's never happening. As long as we bring in 3/4 first XI signings, I'd say there is enough potential in the team.

In terms of players leaving - out of contract, we have 6 (including Greenwood) and you'd expect minimum for AWB, Bailly and Jones to go... So 9 leaving is a good start to the clear out.
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Given the season we've just had and the anger amongst supporters, I'd have expected them to say that they see potential within the squad but that a serious assessment will be made of the squad. Or something to that effect. Keep the fans on board, act like we're demanding high standards and that what we've just witnessed will not be tolerated. No more 2nd/3rd chance saloon. Instead of keeping fans happy and at least acting like an ambitious club, we're again pandering to the players.
 
Come on, as if the Chief Exec is going to say we got to get rid of this pile of shite…..there will and already has been by Ralf a full dossier on what’s what. Who’s who. Who stays, who goes. Just because this isn’t broadcast does not mean that this isn’t/has taken place. Ralf came in under Murtugh so for people to assume ETH won’t talk with him is absolute nonsense.

Do not forget that players that we want to shift still have asset value so there is absolutely no way that anyone is coming out with concrete statements about this position or that player. If we want to move them on then you wouldn’t trash them in public as you need to protect some value.

Same thing by saying about the potential of the squad that finished 2nd - it’s all a ruse to keep some value. I think Murtugh is a smart cookie and he and his new team are going to ensure that we do things differently going forward.

Lots of players are leaving due to natural attrition (contract expiring) - there are some within this squad, while being piss poor this season, will come good again. And then there are those that need to leave. Don’t expect all those to be gone immediately as it just doesn’t work like that.

Recruitment will be the best indicator we get this summer of what’s about to happen.

We have a new manager with a good coaching setup for next season, we have new structure from the football side of the business under Murtugh - we will have RR consulting, probably being involved in way more than most would know, things will change, maybe not immediately but an upturn in our play is guaranteed for next season.

This is definitely the most positive set of changes we have seen since Fergie.
 
SAF would storm the dressing room without any need for fancy conferences, maybe invite few honest fans to speak their mind in their faces.
 
pocco said:
Given the season we've just had and the anger amongst supporters, I'd have expected them to say that they see potential within the squad but that a serious assessment will be made of the squad. Or something to that effect. Keep the fans on board, act like we're demanding high standards and that what we've just witnessed will not be tolerated. No more 2nd/3rd chance saloon. Instead of keeping fans happy and at least acting like an ambitious club, we're again pandering to the players.
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I don't think we are. I believe ten Hag will go in with an open mind, but he will bin off players that aren't on board. I think he has to see them with his own eyes, not just go off the Rangnick assessment.
 
Van Piorsing said:
SAF would storm the dressing room without any need for fancy conferences, maybe invite few honest fans to speak their mind in their faces.
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Did he do that when he dismantled the "drinking culture" at the club? I think it came out subsequently, but I don't think Ferguson went in publicly stating he would be getting rid of the likes of Whiteside and McGrath (who were bloody great players).
 
Loon said:
I don't think we are. I believe ten Hag will go in with an open mind, but he will bin off players that aren't on board. I think he has to see them with his own eyes, not just go off the Rangnick assessment.
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The problem with that is I can imagine the players coming across well to begin with. They'll easily fool him if the seem motivated, and perhaps they will be at first. The problem is, its when things don't go their way that they will sink ETH. If he/Murtough is not going to consider what happened this season for both Ole and Ralf, then what's the point? The evidence is there for all to see. The supporters see it, Rangnick saw it. Hopefully this is actually a bluff this time and these players are being took to task, but I don't trust this club.

I'd rather play with youth/lesser talented but harder working players in some positions and finish mid table than watch the likes of Rashford stroll around and demand more money for the privalege. Where is the pride gone from this club? Honestly if this was Real Madrid or another ruthless club in our position then there'd be a scorched earth approach this summer and they'd probably still do well next season.
 
Pexbo said:
I don’t really get the second tweet. Is he saying that United benefitted from behind closed doors… while other teams didn’t?
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It's more of, our players are so mentally weak with brains like jelly, they over performed playing in empty stadiums as no one was able to criticise or boo them.

This year, life is normal, players can't take the pressure.
 
Loon said:
Did he do that when he dismantled the "drinking culture" at the club? I think it came out subsequently, but I don't think Ferguson went in publicly stating he would be getting rid of the likes of Whiteside and McGrath (who were bloody great players).
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Think it happened twice during SAF time. First it was drinking culture and other time it was when he let fan into a dressing room to criticize players in their face somewhere in 2000s.

From what I remember it was during or after clash vs City.
 
pocco said:
The problem with that is I can imagine the players coming across well to begin with. They'll easily fool him if the seem motivated, and perhaps they will be at first. The problem is, its when things don't go their way that they will sink ETH. If he/Murtough is not going to consider what happened this season for both Ole and Ralf, then what's the point? The evidence is there for all to see. The supporters see it, Rangnick saw it. Hopefully this is actually a bluff this time and these players are being took to task, but I don't trust this club.

I'd rather play with youth/lesser talented but harder working players in some positions and finish mid table than watch the likes of Rashford stroll around and demand more money for the privalege. Where is the pride gone from this club? Honestly if this was Real Madrid or another ruthless club in our position then there'd be a scorched earth approach this summer and they'd probably still do well next season.
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Yeah, I get exactly what you're saying, but I don't know if they will get the time or leeway to throw ten Hag under the bus. I think ten Hag's (and the board's) card is marked and he will make changes, especially if, as per your example, Rashford is not doing it week in week out. He binned off that promising Ajax player because he wasn't following instruction. Rangnick didn't have that authority or power. I think ten Hag has demanded and received that power.
 
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