MUFC are looking at a budget of about £100m, due to FFP (The Athletic)

simonhch said:
I May be wrong but doesn’t existing transfer debt also factor into the equation? Because we have instalments due on players bought in previous windows, if that debt was cleared, I believe it would positively impact FFP.
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They wouldn't just disappear off the FFP sheet no matter how they're paid for.

The player registration costs (transfer fees, wages, agent fees and wages) are what count towards FFP. We can not spend more than 90% of our revenue on those things next season, 80% in 24/25 after that and then 70% in 25/26 (and that includes the amortisation costs of the players already on the books). An owner can't just wipe the slate clean on our current amortization liabilities.

Going nuts this season, would be particularly reckless because the squad cost rules are getting tighter by the season. The goal is to get to 70% in a few seasons, not to fudge it up to go nuts one summer and then carry shit around with you for the upcoming years.
 
Idxomer said:
Wasn't that the case also last summer? We only ended up selling Chong, Garner and Perieria who were all not part of the first team.
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Only to an extent. We had less scope to sell last season as we were already losing players like Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata and Matic from the squad on free transfers. I'm sure we would have preferred to sell the likes of Telles and Bailly rather than loan them out but even without further sales our squad was hardly massively overstocked this season. Nor did we need to sell more beyond that to spend the small fortune we did, whereas we do this summer.

But to your point yes, intending to sell doesn't mean it gets done. The Athletic article the quote in the OP came from was making a similar point, reading ETH's comments on the importance of Begiristain at City a nod to the need to conduct our business more efficiently.
 
People thinking we'll get a significant amount for Henderson, Maguire and McTominay are dreaming.

Henderson is the only one who could command a decent fee. Young, English, perceived to be talented.

McTominay. Surplus to requirements, below average footballer.

Maguire. He's basically a meme these days. 5th choice centre back. 30. Glacial.

We'd be doing well to get £50 million for those three.
 
Plenty curious to know who will buy the likes of Bailly, Telles, Tuanzebe, Brandon Williams? I can't for the life of me accept these players have lasted for so long here. Like, why are they here? But then I see Jones and remember why. The ones we can sell for any kind of money are McTominay, Elanga, AWB, Pellistri, and maybe Maguire. Could see us getting a combined tidy sum for these and afford one more good player, but there has to be actual intent to sell them, and considering the track record of this club in this regard I highly doubt that.
 
Mind games. No one outside of those who write the checks can know how much we'll actually have in the transfer budget. No on in their right mind would say "we've got 300 million quid to spend, so let's get the party started!"
 
lex talionis said:
Mind games. No one outside of those who write the checks can know how much we'll actually have in the transfer budget. No on in their right mind would say "we've got 300 million quid to spend, so let's get the party started!"
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We're a publicly listed company who publish their accounts 4x a year and we know exactly the regulatory rules we need to comply to.
It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.
 
lex talionis said:
Mind games. No one outside of those who write the checks can know how much we'll actually have in the transfer budget. No on in their right mind would say "we've got 300 million quid to spend, so let's get the party started!"
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If this was about our transfer budget that would be true, but it isn't. It's about our scope to spend under the spending regulations, which is quite a bit more transparent.
 
lex talionis said:
Mind games. No one outside of those who write the checks can know how much we'll actually have in the transfer budget. No on in their right mind would say "we've got 300 million quid to spend, so let's get the party started!"
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This is about FFP. Our finances, as well as the FFP rules, are all publicly available information.

Now, whether the FFP rules are actually enforceable is another story.
 
Telsim said:
Plenty curious to know who will buy the likes of Bailly, Telles, Tuanzebe, Brandon Williams? I can't for the life of me accept these players have lasted for so long here. Like, why are they here? But then I see Jones and remember why. The ones we can sell for any kind of money are McTominay, Elanga, AWB, Pellistri, and maybe Maguire. Could see us getting a combined tidy sum for these and afford one more good player, but there has to be actual intent to sell them, and considering the track record of this club in this regard I highly doubt that.
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I would keep an eye on players like Fred and Lindelof too as they hold low book value at this point. If there's interest in them it may be tempting. Ditto Martial.

I think I'm right in saying you could plausibly sell Fred, replace him with someone like Sabitzer for the same fee but come out ahead in terms of FFP.
 
Shane88 said:
People thinking we'll get a significant amount for Henderson, Maguire and McTominay are dreaming.

Henderson is the only one who could command a decent fee. Young, English, perceived to be talented.

McTominay. Surplus to requirements, below average footballer.

Maguire. He's basically a meme these days. 5th choice centre back. 30. Glacial.

We'd be doing well to get £50 million for those three.
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I think McTominay can fetch 20M. Experienced, homegrown midfielder with some versatility.

12M for Henderson, 25M for McTominay, 20M for Maguire would be my guesses.

If this 100M figure is true, and a striker would cost say 80M of that, then selling Sancho and just riding with Rashford and Garnacho at LW and keeping Pellistri as the 5th winger (Amad and Antony on the right) makes a lot of sense. The McTominay and Henderson money brings a new CB and the Sancho and Maguire money along with smaller fees for Elanga, VDB and Greenwood just about paying for a new #8/6, Sabitzer and backup keeper.

Striker - 80M
CM- 70M
RCB - 35M
#2 GK - 10M

-----------------------------------------------------Striker(Martial, Rashford)----------------------------------
Rashford(Garnacho, Pellistri)---------Bruno(Sabitzer)-----------Antony(Amad, Pellistri)
----------------------------------CM1(Eriksen,Fred)----------Casemiro(CM1)-----------------------------
Shaw(Malacia)------Lisandro(Shaw, Lindelof)------Varane(RCB, Lindelof)---------Dalot(AWB)
------------------------------------------------------De Gea (#2)------------------------------------------------------

23 guys. Not sure Sabitzer will want to fight with Fred for 5th place in midfield, though. Also could use one more fullback so maybe Alvaro comes back from loan. Mainoo joins the first team proper as depth since he's probably too young for a loan anyways.
 
Every top club sell players and recoup fees, we are shit at it and will get punish for it.

We need to cut our loses earlier, keeping underperforming players will only drop their value. Players like VDB we could have got 30M for him after his first year, but nah we kept him and now we'll be lucky to get 15M for him.

Same case with Sancho, amongst others.
 
VP89 said:
As I said, there is 1) new people in charge of that remit and 2) players that actually have buyers on the market.

So you can talk all you want about previous years, they aren't really comparable to the situatuon this window. Like it or lump it, Henderson, McT and Maguire will fetch more suitors than Martial and Jones.
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I know, but thats exactly the same case every summer too, and they do all sound so convincing don't they? Clearing the deadwoods for some cash, everyone just love it. And we always have new people in charge, new management, and we always looking forward to new seasons.

But like I said, there's always expectation vs reality, what I am saying here is to give you a little perspective and reality check, and I am going to stop here and not going to spoil your fantasy further.
 
The idea that we're bad at selling because clubs don't want to buy our deadwood is so stupid.

Clubs don't want to buy anyones deadwood. They want to buy players that have actual value to them. Who's reputations have been shattered into multiple memes going around the internet. Players who aren't obviously out of their depth. Players with some potential who they think they might add value. Those are the players that fetch money.

The trick is to sell at a point where their value is high, but you yourself have figured out you can do better anyway (based on you know having seen them in training 7 days a week). That's the bit we don't do.
 
VP89 said:
As I said, there is 1) new people in charge of that remit and 2) players that actually have buyers on the market.

So you can talk all you want about previous years, they aren't really comparable to the situatuon this window. Like it or lump it, Henderson, McT and Maguire will fetch more suitors than Martial and Jones.
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Well for Jones we will get the sum of £0 as he is out of contract.
 
I have no issue with this, you can’t spend 200 million every summer it’s unsustainable even for a club like United.
 
glasgow 21 said:
Well for Jones we will get the sum of £0 as he is out of contract.
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Already? Seems just like yesterday Ole approved his renewal. Doubt he had more than a dozen appearances that entire time. I still don’t trust this club to let him go. Won’t believe it until it’s on manutd.com.
 
This is what happens when you consistently overpay and throw around money like what we spent on Antony (not criticisng Antony btw, I actually think he's improved a lot but the fee paid was beyond ridiculous). People always say "why do you care what he cost, it's not your money". This is why you should care. We need a world class striker in the summer, non-negotiable. It looks like we probably won't be able to upgrade any other position because of our reckless spending over recent years. Probably will rely on some free transfers like Youri Tielemans to get around this.
 
reagrdless club needs to be smart and have different targets for different levels. Cant just go shopping in the overpriced bin. My philosophy would be to target the players that we think would cost 80 plus million if we tried to get them after next season. Dont wait until they cost that much to go after them but instead catch them on their trajectory cycle.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I know, but thats exactly the same case every summer too, and they do all sound so convincing don't they? Clearing the deadwoods for some cash, everyone just love it. And we always have new people in charge, new management, and we always looking forward to new seasons.

But like I said, there's always expectation vs reality, what I am saying here is to give you a little perspective and reality check, and I am going to stop here and not going to spoil your fantasy further.
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It's not the case every summer that we have saleable assets that would actually fetch decent fees, no.
 
Skills said:
The idea that we're bad at selling because clubs don't want to buy our deadwood is so stupid.

Clubs don't want to buy anyones deadwood. They want to buy players that have actual value to them. Who's reputations have been shattered into multiple memes going around the internet. Players who aren't obviously out of their depth. Players with some potential who they think they might add value. Those are the players that fetch money.

The trick is to sell at a point where their value is high, but you yourself have figured out you can do better anyway (based on you know having seen them in training 7 days a week). That's the bit we don't do.
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Yup. And more often then not, that's exactly what the clubs that sell to us are doing.
 
IRELANDUNITED said:
We can definitely get 40 for Maguire, captain of United, still in his prime, England starter and for a team like West Ham he might actually be decent. English tax drives up the prices of players and there’s no reason we can’t benefit from that, for once. Mctomminy is admired by Newcastle and if they want him they’ll have to pay. We shouldn’t even consider a sale if we aren’t getting between 35-40m.
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Maybe if he was earning what a midtable player earns. The reality is Maguire is earning significantly more than that and it makes it far harder to shift him for a respectable fee with that in mind. The same is true of most players who play for us.

That's also why it's imperative we move De Gea on this summer. People underestimate how harmful it is for squad building when average players earn significant amounts of money.
 
mu4c_20le said:


Saw this on my feed, not sure how true it is, somehow Jassim has a way to get around FFP ??
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Yeah I wonder how.

“welcome to the theatre of Qatar, bought to you by Qatar Airways.”

£200 million extra a season in sponsorship right there.

Does anyone actually want a club where we’re outspending all rivals by £200 million a season. It’s absolutely pointless.
 
Skills said:
They wouldn't just disappear off the FFP sheet no matter how they're paid for.

The player registration costs (transfer fees, wages, agent fees and wages) are what count towards FFP. We can not spend more than 90% of our revenue on those things next season, 80% in 24/25 after that and then 70% in 25/26 (and that includes the amortisation costs of the players already on the books). An owner can't just wipe the slate clean on our current amortization liabilities.

Going nuts this season, would be particularly reckless because the squad cost rules are getting tighter by the season. The goal is to get to 70% in a few seasons, not to fudge it up to go nuts one summer and then carry shit around with you for the upcoming years.
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Under that logic, if we wipe out transfer debt this summer, as part of a takeover, and consequently change the amortisation schedule on those transfers, so they aren’t carried over to future windows, would that then not have a positive impact on FFP for future windows, I.e. January or next summer, as opposed to this window.

This isn’t me disagreeing with you, this is me seeking to understand how a takeover can influence the current FFP compliance in the short term. Would it also be the case that a boost in revenue, say from a *ahem* Qatari sponsorship deal, would also positively impact FFP wiggle room?
 
JagUTD said:
At best, 50% untrue. Realistically, completely untrue.
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This is true, the debt being cleared is a huge factor that most fans just don’t understand. The club owes £650m in debt and pays from its own accounts £40m to service that debt, all of this is shown on accounts position last year where the club lost £115m on a turnover of £583m, which increased the clubs debt, and therefore will increase the interest payments this year these are the the financial costs of running the club which seriously affect your ability to operate in the summer window

so by clearing the debt, the club is placed under new ownership with Uefa, allowing them to pay off some of the costs effecting FFP, united could therefore operate differently in this transfer window because the following year, we would have no debt and no interest payments so SJ effectively could spend up to £250m because our turnover is rumoured to be £550-600m this year and wages are lower due to Europa League factor, take out the debt and the £40-50m of interest payments, the club is in a far better place for a late summer transfer window, this is still secondary to the club qualifying for CL football, without that we might have less than £50m
 
Even if we sold McT that money would probably be spent on Sabitzer so we’re no better off cash wise.

Maguire sold for what 20m if we’re lucky

Elanga maybe 15m

Henderson 20m

55m on top of the 100 budget won’t get us what we need sadly it’s probably going to cost us 100m+ on a striker.
 
sullydnl said:
I would keep an eye on players like Fred and Lindelof too as they hold low book value at this point. If there's interest in them it may be tempting. Ditto Martial.

I think I'm right in saying you could plausibly sell Fred, replace him with someone like Sabitzer for the same fee but come out ahead in terms of FFP.
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Isn't Fred out of contract next year? Will reflect in price as well. Really seems like this summer will be where we will feel the pain of previous bad decisions.

Wonder what the club has in mind with Greenwood. Actually I hope we make use of him but if not, he could also command a decent fee.

On the rest I am with you, I'd be happy to say goodbye to all of Fred, Mctominay and DVB. But not sure if it would be a good idea to get rid of them all at the same time... Same with Martial. Next year Wout will be gone and even if we bring in a 1st team striker, we shouldn't calculate with this guy playing 60 games. Think we will have to bite the bullet with some of those players. Lets hope, we'll be particularly smart from this window on... Last window had me a bit discouraged though...
 
simonhch said:
Under that logic, if we wipe out transfer debt this summer, as part of a takeover, and consequently change the amortisation schedule on those transfers, so they aren’t carried over to future windows, would that then not have a positive impact on FFP for future windows, I.e. January or next summer, as opposed to this window.

This isn’t me disagreeing with you, this is me seeking to understand how a takeover can influence the current FFP compliance in the short term. Would it also be the case that a boost in revenue, say from a *ahem* Qatari sponsorship deal, would also positively impact FFP wiggle room?
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What do you mean by "change the amortisation scheudle"?
 
This was always going to be the case. We spend loads and make nothing back
 
Every year the media write this nonsense, every year we spend a totally different amount. Nobody outside the club knows what our plans are.

Besides, FFP is dead. They could give us a meaningless fine but nothing that would impact us on the pitch. If they don't enforce it against City and PSG, there is no chance they're going to come after a Qatari owned Manchester United. We are the goose that lays the golden egg.
 
If this is true, it's time to seriously consider selling Sancho.

croadyman said:
My only concern is does he offer enough to this midfield outside of the set pieces
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No, he doesn't. If it wasn't for his free kicks people would barely know who he is.
 
Fabio Rochemback said:
If this is true, it's time to seriously consider selling Sancho.
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Would that really help with our FFP situation though?

Sancho was signed for £72M on a five-year deal. If the transfer fee is amortized straight-line, that means at the end of this season, only £29M will already have been amortized. If we sold him this summer we'd have to write down the remaining £43M, but would immediately recoup whatever transfer fee we receive for him. Which given his wages, probably wouldn't be very high. In other words, if we received less than £43M for him, our FFP situation this summer would get even worse.

That's just my very limited understanding of the amortization rules though - please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
VP89 said:
It's not bad news per say.

£100m net spend is still quite good. Assume that's Kane for the moment.

Then If we sell Maguire, McT, Henderson and then a fodder like Baily then we can buy well. That income can get us a good 6/8 and also timber in CB

If we offload AWB then we can stretch to a more premium RB.
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I think we would get about £50 million total for them.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Would that really help with our FFP situation though?

Sancho was signed for £72M on a five-year deal. If the transfer fee is amortized straight-line, that means at the end of this season, only £29M will already have been amortized. If we sold him this summer we'd have to write down the remaining £43M, but would immediately recoup whatever transfer fee we receive for him. Which given his wages, probably wouldn't be very high. In other words, if we received less than £43M for him, our FFP situation this summer would get even worse.

That's just my very limited understanding of the amortization rules though - please correct me if I'm wrong.
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You are correct. Same with Antony when we realise he's a £15m talent.
 
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