Moyes So Far!

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nahealai said:
:lol:

Who the fück said that?!

I said it wasn't a given that any of those would have us winning the league this season. I never said they'd have us 7th in the fücking league!

They are some gobshites on this site.
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Why shall we sign Carvalho then, or Luke Shaw, or whoever else? It's not a given that they will have us winning the league, or improve our squad. Why don't we just keep Fellaini and whoever else as first team regulars and hope they come good?
 
I don't see how Moyes is also more tactically aware than a manager who's side are nearly 20 points ahead of us, and who have walked all over us both times they played us this season despite the fact we finished around 10 points ahead of them last season. Pellegrini may not be a tactical genius, but he's certainly more astute and aware than Moyes.
 
nahealai said:
:lol:

Who the fück said that?!

I said it wasn't a given that any of those would have us winning the league this season. I never said they'd have us 7th in the fücking league!

They are some gobshites on this site.
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Strange, because you were replying to this:
Sarni said:
I know you love Dave and despise our players but please stop this nonsense, this team isn't the 7th best team in the country. Ferguson has proven there is far more to be squeezed out of these players and this hasn't changed to such extent that 7th place should be considered normal.
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Cheesy said:
I don't see how Moyes is also more tactically aware than a manager who's side are nearly 20 points ahead of us, and who have walked all over us both times they played us this season despite the fact we finished around 10 points ahead of them last season. Pellegrini may not be a tactical genius, but he's certainly more astute and aware than Moyes.
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Hey, I'll have you know Moyes has played a 442 4411 4231 43111 451 433 (for five minutes) and is more flexible than leggy Peggy.
 
Silent_Running said:
Anyone not waiting at least 2 years (I think 3 is fairer) before judging Moyes is simply being impatient.
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How I would love it, if everyone actually would get 2 to 3 years at their job before they can be judged. Getting paid as much as Moyes would be a plus as well. I mean handsome salary and basically having 2 to 3 years without worrying about job security, lovely.

Moyes can be judged, he's done a bad job. Guardiola can be judged, he's done a good job. It's that easy, if you come out with something like that. It might be impatient to call him not the man for the job at this moment of time though, if that's your actual point.
 
nahealai said:
Of course. A league title tilt isn't out of the question either, mind. Look at the strides Liverpool have made this season.

Look at the Secret Footballer column re: Moyes and United a few months back. It was well accepted in the professional game that United's squad was playing to absolute potential last season whereas City and Chelsea seriously underachieved. The 11-point title win had skewed many United fans' expectations for this season (admittedly, mine too back in the summer) as there's no way we were that much better than the rest last season.

So, again, to reiterate my point: we should be in the Top 4 now at least and 7th is unacceptable, however, I've seen enough in Moyes to suggest he can arrest the slide and get us competitive again. He knows the area we need to improve and that for me is a good sign (Ferguson ignored it for years, remember).
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Please clarify exactly what you have 'seen' in Moyes to believe this.
 
nahealai said:
  • He's identified key areas of the pitch where we need to improve (he did this very early on with bids for midfielders and left-backs)
  • He's shown no romanticism in addressing these problems (benched Ferdinand despite the leaks/how popular he is among the players. He also was willing to flog Evra and get his own left-back in. Evra, again, a popular man among the players and not forgetting Anderson, a likeable lad but obviously here a year or two past his welcome. Ferguson commanded the late '80s United dressing-room by bombing out the bad influences/non-performers despite their popularity and never looked back)
  • He has total belief in doing things his way, e.g. the entire back-room staff is his own. De Gea has improved markedly as an all-round 'keeper under Woods, for example. That mental strength will stand him (and us) in good stead
  • He won't stand for unprofessionalism. Moyes reportedly fined players for being seen partying in town immediately after our loss to Bayern (People will claim he overreacted - could you imagine if it was Moyes who was pictured drunk and partying in town hours after the game...)
  • He is tactically adaptable. He's shown an awareness of various formations and utilises them quite well (I can't think of too many occasions where our tactics/formation were wrong as opposed to us simply not performing. City fans are horrified at Pellegrini's one-dimensionally by comparison)
  • His trust in youth. Januzaj has been used very sensibly and to good effect. Wilson has been name-checked by Moyes as possibly appearing before the end of the season and Moyes has also attended games to watch our loan players. This, no doubt, is a great confidence boost for them
  • Moyes personally scouts his transfer targets. Others may disagree but I like this about him.
  • He's a tremendously hard-working. It's well-known how much of a obsessive he is and how serious he takes his job. Ferguson firmly believed in being the first man in in the morning and last man to leave. Moyes' work ethic and approach is cut from the same cloth. Having that 'omnipresent' reputation will help him forge that 'ruler' tag Ferguson used to his advantage so well
  • He learns as he goes along. Many expected Moyes to struggle in Europe but that's where we've had our best performances. The league, a domain where Moyes has excelled for ten years already, should be our bread and butter so I (many will say naively) think this season will be an anomaly.
  • Our away form has been very impressive. Everton's away form was always the weaker aspect of their season which flies in the face of everyone who has said Moyes has 'Evertonised' United. Moyes' Everton were very strong at home - as have United been - so it's a surprise we've been so lethargic at home. Again, I see this anomalous and we'll address this next season
  • Our defence, despite it being decimated with injuries and having to rely on players well past their peak, has looked pretty decent all things considering. We've kept quite a few clean sheets away from home lately and that organisation should be the bedrock of future successes
  • Our front play has looked fluid in recent weeks. Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj, Rooney etc. are exciting talents and there's huge potential in that front four. I believe Moyes will ultimately see the promise in this quartet and form a system around them (he's shown signs of this already)
Again, not an exhaustive list nor one I've out too much time and effort into compiling, but those are just a few aspects of Moyes' reign which have impressed me/I see some potential in.

Comparisons to Ferguson's United are inevitable and I do see some semblance of Ferguson's ethos in Moyes, especially in how they both approached their reigns early on. It's not easy to put your stamp on a team/club let alone follow the greatest of them all. I trust Moyes to do it his way and I believe he'll have us competitive once again.
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I respect this post, but I have to take issue with a number of the points you've made.

- Identified key areas of the pitch that need improvement - I see that as a prerequisite for any manager. What he should be judged on is the players he has actually delivered. Mata, I like. Fellaini is awful - pound for pound, the worst United player of the modern era. I don't see how identifying a player but not delivering them is a positive.

- You say he took the decision to phase Ferdinand out - but this was only done after he'd stuck with him for the first few months of the season, by which point we'd already dropped a shed load of points. Fact is, faced with a tough start, Moyes didn't have the stones to put Jones or Smalling in from the get go. He leaned on the tried and trusted and it didn't serve him well.

- You conveniently point to the work Woods has done with DDG. What about the rest of the coaching staff? Sorry, but it's widely accepted that gutting the back room team was Moyes's biggest aberration. Strong management in a new environment isn't always about ripping up the play book and writing a new one - he should have valued the continuity and winning experience of the old staff. We hired Moyes for stability and he destroyed the team of staff who could've given that.

- Moyes tactically adaptable? I don't see that. I see a manager who has fecked about with various different systems, never looking like he is close to knowing what his best system / team is. I've seen a manager who has opted for defensive tactics to survive instead of trying to win the United way. I see a manager who has been unreactive with his tactics / subs when things have gone awry. If he was that much of a tactician, he would've managed some decent results against the heavyweight clubs. By and large, he - and the team - have been outclassed.

- Hard work allied with quality is a potent combination. Hard work in isolation isn't enough at the elite level. Also, this is another prerequisite. Name a manager who doesn't work hard...

- Is our recent vibrant attacking play by design or did Moyes stumble upon it? When the big names are all fit, will he again revert to type with nonsense like Mata on the wing?
 
Danny1982 said:
It looks like the best way to make Moyes look good has now become by trying to prove that everybody else is just as bad as him, or even worse.
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Mourinho managed Chelsea to lose to Sunderland, Moyes is better!!! :devil:

Conveniently ignoring Mourinho's record against the top teams...
 
Did someone seriously say Moyes is 'tactically adaptable'? That whole post has to be a WUM.

The guy is absolutely stone age.
 
bucky said:
How I would love it, if everyone actually would get 2 to 3 years at their job before they can be judged. Getting paid as much as Moyes would be a plus as well. I mean handsome salary and basically having 2 to 3 years without worrying about job security, lovely.

Moyes can be judged, he's done a bad job. Guardiola can be judged, he's done a good job. It's that easy, if you come out with something like that. It might be impatient to call him not the man for the job at this moment of time though, if that's your actual point.
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Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
 
Cal? said:
Mourinho managed Chelsea to lose to Sunderland, Moyes is better!!! :devil:

Conveniently ignoring Mourinho's record against the top teams...
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Also Moyes is better tactician than him because Mourinho is so one-dimensional (only defends) why Moyes has shown that he can play different formations like: 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-4-2, 4-4-2, 4-4-2, 4-5-1 and of course 4-4-2. Moyes the 'better tactician than Pellegrini' despite getting only 6 points on 11 games against top 6 teams and losing 7-1 against Pellegrini (aggregate result).
 
DWelbz19 said:
Hey, I'll have you know Moyes has played a 442 4411 4231 43111 451 433 (for five minutes) and is more flexible than leggy Peggy.
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Don't forget that when we are losing, his incredible tactical know-how is shown by doing absolutely nothing until the 80th minute and then in the magical 81st minute switching to an innovative and ultra-modern 4-1-5 by throwing all our strikers at once plus an attacking mid/winger also playing in the same areas which all our strikers occupy. Guardiola, Klopp, Mourinho or Pellegrini would never come up with that kind of master plan.
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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Stuck with him for another two years to
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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:lol:
 
Sixpence said:
Did someone seriously say Moyes is 'tactically adaptable'? That whole post has to be a WUM.

The guy is absolutely stone age.
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Only if nahelai is on WUM all the time. A few weeks ago he was admiring Moyes' dignity on this situation (if I am not mistaken, it was on the same day that Moyes said that SAF left him with a weak team), and now he is saying that Moyes is better tactician than Pellegrini.
 
I don't see how at this point anyone can say that replacing all the back room staff has proven to be a good decision when virtually all but two of our players have got worse in the last 11 months.
 
nahealai said:
We'll see.

I'm done here anyway. I'll remember to bump this thread every once in a while over the next few seasons. It'll be fun.
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I think there's some chance it'll be locked in 12 months as we won't have to discuss our former manager.
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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:lol:
Who's to say any other decorator would've done better? There's no guarantee mate.
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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:lol:
 
nahealai said:
  • He's identified key areas of the pitch where we need to improve (he did this very early on with bids for midfielders and left-backs)
  • Bids which failed, and as was said before, the whole world knew which areas needed improving. Not exactly rocket science.
  • He's shown no romanticism in addressing these problems (benched Ferdinand despite the leaks/how popular he is among the players. He also was willing to flog Evra and get his own left-back in. Evra, again, a popular man among the players and not forgetting Anderson, a likeable lad but obviously here a year or two past his welcome. Ferguson commanded the late '80s United dressing-room by bombing out the bad influences/non-performers despite their popularity and never looked back)
  • That's called football management. And talking of screwing that up, he also publicly tried to get rid of Evra, the VC, and failed. Not very well handled, was it?
  • He has total belief in doing things his way, e.g. the entire back-room staff is his own. De Gea has improved markedly as an all-round 'keeper under Woods, for example. That mental strength will stand him (and us) in good stead
  • Which football manager hasn't or doesn't bring in their own staff? (a move that was widely criticised, btw) And don't mistake his doing things his way with decisiveness, which he has shown to be lacking in spades when managing our team when it really mattered. Not exactly mental strength. Great he has improved our goalie, apparently, who has been oveworked this season. Even though DDG was already a very good keeper before Moyes came along.
  • He won't stand for unprofessionalism. Moyes reportedly fined players for being seen partying in town immediately after our loss to Bayern (People will claim he overreacted - could you imagine if it was Moyes who was pictured drunk and partying in town hours after the game...)
  • Again, that's called football management. Could anyone imagine this happening under SAF or another top manager?
  • He is tactically adaptable. He's shown an awareness of various formations and utilises them quite well (I can't think of too many occasions where our tactics/formation were wrong as opposed to us simply not performing. City fans are horrified at Pellegrini's one-dimensionally by comparison)
  • Tactically what? With regards to Moyes, that's known as an oxymoron. He is as inflexible as can be. His formations, tactics have been far from adequate. And who cares what City do? If their manager gets it wrong, so what? I don't support them.
  • His trust in youth. Januzaj has been used very sensibly and to good effect. Wilson has been name-checked by Moyes as possibly appearing before the end of the season and Moyes has also attended games to watch our loan players. This, no doubt, is a great confidence boost for them
  • So he picked Januzaj for some games, a player from our academy most likely recommended to him by SAF. And what about Zaha? 2 games for us and Mr Clueless thinks he's not good enough. And according to Sheedy at Everton, Moyes practically ignored their academy players and didn't play Barkley enough.
  • Moyes personally scouts his transfer targets. Others may disagree but I like this about him.
  • Again, this is called football management. There were lots of reps/coaches/managers from many clubs besides Moyes at last week's Benfica game.
  • He's a tremendously hard-working. It's well-known how much of a obsessive he is and how serious he takes his job. Ferguson firmly believed in being the first man in in the morning and last man to leave. Moyes' work ethic and approach is cut from the same cloth. Having that 'omnipresent' reputation will help him forge that 'ruler' tag Ferguson used to his advantage so well
  • Wow, he's also Scottish. Doesn't mean he is Sir Alex Mk 2 does it? And the great man didn't get everything right, did he? Case in point, thinking Moyes could do the job. Lots of managers work hard and in that job, it should be second nature.
  • He learns as he goes along. Many expected Moyes to struggle in Europe but that's where we've had our best performances. The league, a domain where Moyes has excelled for ten years already, should be our bread and butter so I (many will say naively) think this season will be an anomaly.
  • Not good enough. Did we need an apprentice top class manager? And if that's the case, he's not learning quick enough. Excelled? Overachieving on a limited budget under much less pressure and expectation is one thing, managing one of the world's biggest clubs is another. He has failed to make that step up, miserably.
  • Our away form has been very impressive. Everton's away form was always the weaker aspect of their season which flies in the face of everyone who has said Moyes has 'Evertonised' United. Moyes' Everton were very strong at home - as have United been - so it's a surprise we've been so lethargic at home. Again, I see this anomalous and we'll address this next season
  • And our home form has been piss poor, something a top manager would have addressed and got right much sooner. Anomaly is just another world for excuse. He is incapable of managing our team, especially in attack.
  • Our defence, despite it being decimated with injuries and having to rely on players well past their peak, has looked pretty decent all things considering. We've kept quite a few clean sheets away from home lately and that organisation should be the bedrock of future successes
  • Rubbish. Distin is older than Rio, Terry is older than Vidic. Are they past their peak or just being managed properly? Their ages are no secret so why didn't Moyes sign a new CB last summer? Injuries are excuses too. Every team has them and has to deal with them.
  • Our front play has looked fluid in recent weeks. Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj, Rooney etc. are exciting talents and there's huge potential in that front four. I believe Moyes will ultimately see the promise in this quartet and form a system around them (he's shown signs of this already)
  • In games where we have nothing to play for against pretty poor opposition, like nearly all our wins this season. Where was this form when we needed it this season? Too little, too late.
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nahealai said:
We'll see.

I'm done here anyway. I'll remember to bump this thread every once in a while over the next few seasons. It'll be fun.
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I am pretty sure that threads on 'classic threads and posts' section of the Caf are locked.
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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How selfish of you. You should stop being greedy and accept you were going to be homeless eventually.
 
I still can't get my head around the fact he is still our manager. It genuinely depresses me.
 
Ubik said:
Decorator came over to paint the house yesterday. I was slightly concerned when instead of painting he began lacing the walls with petrol before sitting the sofa on fire. However, I decided I probably shouldn't complain until he'd finished the job, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise. In other news, I am now homeless.
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He just needs time. Give him loads of money to mend what he's done.
 
Tomalonge said:
Oh big ones, I thought it was classic as in amazing.
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Well, Thiago thread is there, and it isn't that amazing. I don't know if there was ever a bigger thread than this on Caf, so I guess it will go there when Moyes inevitably get sacked.
 
Revan said:
Well, Thiago thread is there, and it isn't that amazing. I don't know if there was ever a bigger thread than this on Caf, so I guess it will go there when Moyes inevitably get sacked.
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Dunno lol. Can anyone clear this up? Is the classic threads forum for all big threads or is it only the special ones?
 
Tomalonge said:
Dunno lol. Can anyone clear this up? Is the classic threads forum for all big threads or is it only the special ones?
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I don't know but I think that someof the big threads go there. This thread is the Weaste of threads, so likely it will be there.
 
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